Ben Tillman's name is on that bldg. because he did everything he could to promote agriculture in this state but was rebuffed by the University of SC; therefore, he encouraged Thomas Clemson to turn John C. Calhoun's estate over to SC to create a school of agriculture. None of this had anything to do with slavery or white supremacy. So drop that issue!! As for the flag, you can take it down, but it does not change our history. As a history lesson: THE constitution of the United States allows each state to voluntarily withdraw from the union if it does not agree with the tenets of the nation. Jefferson Davis and other legal scholars of that time did just that; they withdrew from the union, over the issue of the 10th amendment stating...powers not delegated to the US ...are reserved to the states respectively or to the people. Abraham Lincoln's argument was that the southern states should dare to break up the "union" on his watch. That's why he refused to vacate Ft. Sumter and why cadets fired on Ft Sumter to remove them from the state; as they were US troops and SC was no longer a part of the greater union. As you can see none of this had anything to do with the tragedy in Charleston. People are merely using a national tragedy to politicize the event for their own desires. Perhaps, we should remove the African-American monument on the state house grounds, because maybe that's what inspired this "brainiac" to commit this heinous crime. Maybe we should consider that the confederate flag serves as a reminder to a dark period in our history, so that we don't repeat it. But, that would be making something positive out of this.....and we certainly can't allow that.
Ben Tillman's name is on the building because he did everything he could to support agriculture in t
- Thread starter Kiaagent
- Start date
I am sure that all sounds very logical in your head.
KIAAgent, ignore the brainwashed children on this board. You cannot post anything intelegent on here anymore without the lost youth of today having diarea of the mouth.
That was painful to read. It's more painful to think there are people that believe it. This '94 alum says change Tillman Hall's name
No, but he thinks it was intelegent?
Any post in this thread is 1000x more intelligent than one trying to debate with with the close minded or trying to sway the immovable. Especially on an internet message board.
Politics notwithstanding, without Tillman Clemson as we know it would not exist. Are we going to rename the Washington and Jefferson monuments because they owned slaves? We need to remove the Declaration of Independence because half of the signers were slave owners. Where do we draw the line? It's newspeek a few decades late.
Yeah, let's just spray the world with foam rubber so no one gets hurt ...
History is what it is, ignore it at your own peril...
History is what it is, ignore it at your own peril...
Tillman actively encouraged lynching. Much worse than the former two owning slaves while it was legal.
You could argue owning slaves in itself was murder. Splitting families, rape, working slaves until ill or until death. But, let's not go there.
The BoT already shut it down, doubt it would pass 3/4 of the SC Legislature, even today.
Thing is, most people don't even know who Ben Tillman is, or his history. Heck, let's remove Calhoun, Wade Hampton, Thomas Sumter (sorry gamecocks), Strom Thurmond, Charles Pinckney, all the Middletons, Jimmy Byrnes, etc, etc, etc.
But, let's remove Hamilton from the $10 bill, the guy who was an abolitionist way before most others.
Hamilton apparently is being removed to be replaced by yet to be named female. So if Tillman hall was so damned important why did it take 50 years to change the name of Main ? Times have changed.....
does Winthrop have to change the name of their Tillman Hall too??
don't get me wrong, I'm okay with the name change. Just wondering
if it only applies to ours.
http://www.winthrop.edu/virtualtour/buildingtour.aspx?id=3165
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formerly called Main Building at Winthop.
Old Main at Clemson...it took his son, on the BOT, to lobby hard and long to change the name to Tillman...about 50 years later.
No shat Sherlock. If you feel so strongly about it write David Wilkins & the BoT to get the name removed. I doubt you will.
Sure, doubt you will. But, just sit & bitch about things that really do not matter in this state.
Again thanks for your insight and wisdom on things that don't matter and how they relate to today's current events. I stand corrected.
You're the one talking about it. Maybe you should worry about California.
if you really have a problem with the name of a frigging building @ Clemson then take it up with the people who can do something about it. You don't live in SC, so write the board.
Or, move to SC, live, work, pay taxes......or, again, just bitch from the sidelines.
Dutch relax I've done all of that.. i happen to live in California now but spent the better part of 15 years in SC (5 should have been 4 in Clemson) Tillman was an evil person, yes I have problem with him having a building named after him, and yes I have put in writing to the BOT..... You feel better now? Gfy ... And Peace
Well, now GFY because I doubt you did anything. Peace.
And, doubt you even knew who Tillman was even at Clemson.
I asked you the question before, you failed to answer, now you're writing a letter.
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Political Correctness means silencing anyone the mob disagrees with....
Let me get you some bubble wrap so you don't hurt yourself in life.
Let me get you some bubble wrap so you don't hurt yourself in life.
OK, first I want to say that I am a very conservative thinker. I have always voted republican, other than voting for Jimmy Carter in my first presidential election and Ross Pero in my second, I believe, (both of which should demonstrate to you that 18-24 year olds should not be allowed to vote). It also should give you an understanding of how old I am. In any event, I am a conservative and an avid southerner. By that I mean that I believe in the Southern spirit and what it entails (independent thinking, chivalry, fairness, pride, conservatism, etc). I also like Catch&Release and his posts, so it bothers me to post this.
Politically, I understand that flag issue. I have a brother whose position is that even though the confederate flag initially had an honorable purpose, the perception now by those outside of the south and, in particular, South Carolina is completely different than its original intent. Accordingly, he thinks it should be taken down. I vehemently disagree with him. Not because I don't think he is correct, but be because I believe in the southern gentleman and, in particular, the South Carolina southern gentleman. We were the first state to succeed (for political reasons) and I'm proud of that. Part of being a South Carolina man is having a fvck you attitude. That is: this is us and if you don't like it go away, but don't tell me how to live my life. I don't want some Yankee or Californinan (Smilingtiger excluded) telling me what flag I can and can't fly. So, as much as I agree that the perception of the flag has changed, I still want to tell every outsider to stick it. It's our flag, we like it and if you don't like it go away and don't look at it.
I thought I would feel the same way about Tillman, but before posting in the last drama about this, I did a little research on him. Unfortunately, I can find no redeeming values about this guy. He's the exact opposite of the southern man I described above. He was a small man (intellectually). He was a racist, a bigot, and a privileged son. He was also small minded in his humanitarian and political goals, running political campaigns on fear, hatred and intimidation. Regardless of the good he may have done for Clemson, I want no part of him nor do I want his name on any hall at Clemson. This is the case, no matter the amount of $ his son and grandson committed to the University. The fact is that he was a bad person. There are good and bad people on both sides of the Mason Dixon line and he was a bad one. $ should not be able to by redemption or recognition and that's all we have here. Regardless how much I like the name Tillman Hall and associate with my time at Clemson, sometimes you have to fix things and this needs fixing.
The bottom line is that I am embarrassed by this guy and his acts. Maybe I am incorrect in my research and someone can shed some positive light on him, but from what I've seen he has no redeeming qualities. I am all for changing the Hall's name.
I only want to charge Tillman Hall not other Civil War/Slave Owners, etc. because
1) Tillman was by and large a despicable human even for the times
2) The historical name of the building was Old Main until 1946. I would have a differing opinion if it has been named Tillman Hall since the building was erected.
1) Tillman was by and large a despicable human even for the times
2) The historical name of the building was Old Main until 1946. I would have a differing opinion if it has been named Tillman Hall since the building was erected.
Rename Tillman "Kumbaya"... that will make everyone feel better.
Maybe like folks online post we should just rename Clemson or just close the whole place down... It was a plantation right?
Overall, it is important to remember that Clemson's land once belonged to a plantation, as well as realize the true situation of slavery and the beliefs of the Calhoun/Clemson family, because this is the first connection of African Americans with the university. The college today bears Clemson's name, and the Fort Hill Mansion still stands on this land, a monument to that era; slavery was a part of that era and the repercussions can be seen in the course of the university from this time on.
Someone even called for getting rid of the Jefferson Memorial already.... be prepared for the unintentional consequences.
Maybe like folks online post we should just rename Clemson or just close the whole place down... It was a plantation right?
Overall, it is important to remember that Clemson's land once belonged to a plantation, as well as realize the true situation of slavery and the beliefs of the Calhoun/Clemson family, because this is the first connection of African Americans with the university. The college today bears Clemson's name, and the Fort Hill Mansion still stands on this land, a monument to that era; slavery was a part of that era and the repercussions can be seen in the course of the university from this time on.
Someone even called for getting rid of the Jefferson Memorial already.... be prepared for the unintentional consequences.
Please read my post. I think there is a big difference between a slave owner in 1700 and Ben Tillman.
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