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Clemson and NewSpring

SWUtigers

SWUtigers

The Jack Dunlap Club
Gold Member
Jan 2, 2007
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Although I thought the atheist/agnostic article about Clemson is nothing to see, I can't help but wonder how influential NewSpring is to the Program. Anyone care to elaborate?

Also, what is it about this "church" that makes people get so defensive? I have close friends that work and/or attend services and they are borderline militant about this place. This blog, in particular, makes me wonder about the "culture" being created in mega churches.

Perhaps I just don't understand because I've never set foot in there but I wonder what some here have to say.
 
Last year during the beginning of August camp, Dabo took the team to a different church; not New Spring. FWIW. Dabo is not the first coach at Clemson to take the players to church during August camp. All I know is Perry Nobles is a Clemson fan, but Gamecocks are allowed to attend his church, and plenty of them do. Not sure what your motives are.
 
buckle-up-300x300.gif


This post was edited on 4/16 1:43 PM by TAINT_PAINT
 
Originally posted by SWUtigers:
Although I thought the atheist/agnostic article about Clemson is nothing to see, I can't help but wonder how influential NewSpring is to the Program. Anyone care to elaborate?

Also, what is it about this "church" that makes people get so defensive? I have close friends that work and/or attend services and they are borderline militant about this place. This blog, in particular, makes me wonder about the "culture" being created in mega churches.

Perhaps I just don't understand because I've never set foot in there but I wonder what some here have to say.
Click to expand...
Everyone has their opinions but IMO the big reason people get defensive is the size of Newspring (multiple churches, and they are expanding very rapidly).

I have never been to a service there though. Perry Noble used to speak at FCA when I was at Clemson from time to time, and he was a good guy.
 
Originally posted by orangelvis:

Last year during the beginning of August camp, Dabo took the team to a different church; not New Spring. FWIW. Dabo is not the first coach at Clemson to take the players to church during August camp. All I know is Perry Nobles is a Clemson fan, but Gamecocks are allowed to attend his church, and plenty of them do. Not sure what your motives are.
Click to expand...
I don't really have any motives, per se, I just don't understand the culture of this church. After reading a blog (attached) it added validity to my pre-conceived notion of some of the people I know that attend the church. The people I know are good people but when ANYTHING negative about the church said, they immediately get extremely defensive. I love my church I attend in Columbia and it is by no means perfect.
 
Originally posted by SWUtigers:

Originally posted by orangelvis:


Last year during the beginning of August camp, Dabo took the team to a different church; not New Spring. FWIW. Dabo is not the first coach at Clemson to take the players to church during August camp. All I know is Perry Nobles is a Clemson fan, but Gamecocks are allowed to attend his church, and plenty of them do. Not sure what your motives are.
Click to expand...
I don't really have any motives, per se, I just don't understand the culture of this church. After reading a blog (attached) it added validity to my pre-conceived notion of some of the people I know that attend the church. The people I know are good people but when ANYTHING negative about the church said, they immediately get extremely defensive. I love my church I attend in Columbia and it is by no means perfect.
Click to expand...
I am not a member of New Springs but have been to plenty of services there in the past. You probably know that they don't function as a traditional main line denominational church. I see them more as a "home missionary culture". Everything they do is geared towards attracting non believers to their services, (the casual dress, modern sounding music, etc) is utilized to make non-believers feel comfortable. If you gauge the success of any Christian "church" or outreach on the number of people who come to know Jesus Christ as their personal savior, then it would be difficult to knock New Spring as they do this better than anybody. I am sure, actually, I know, they are not perfect. I doubt that they would claim to be perfect either. From what I've seen and heard through out the Anderson community over the years, most of the complaints from the traditional churches is basically just jealousy.
 
The biggest reason is that NewSpring gets attacked a lot largely because of it's size and rapid growth. The majority of the attacks are from people in other churches and when you go there you get used to hearing all of the criticism.

At the same time, because you go there you know the criticism is unwarranted so you defend them. That's pretty much it though.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
Thank you for the summation, elvis and miller.

I do have one more question, I hear there are no crosses in the church. If so, what's their justification for this?
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
I attended and volunteered at Newspring for 2 years at Clemson. It is a good church. They are very evangelical. However, they seek to be controversial with sound bites from sermons, sermon titles, songs played in worsip, etc. Then members become very defensive and offended when that controversy is addressed and debated.

My other observation is that Perry will cycle through the same topics: finance, marriage, creativity, evangelism, etc. Then use scripture to support his message. He is not seminary trained (open for debate but important to me as understanding cultural and original language context is huge). He also is not an expository preacher who focuses on a passage of scripture and then comes up with a thesis.

The culture of mega churches is cause for some alarm. When Perry or band members would walk into the volunteer room, they were treated as rock stars with many just looking to be assosciated wtih Lee or Perry to be seen as cool, etc. Egos are large in that church. A good example is Perry does not do hospital visits, marriages, funerals, etc. I know the external reasoning is that he can't do it for everyone and doesn't want to have it outwardly appear as favoritism. But, larger churches like Seacoast, East Cooper, First Presbyterian, etc. don't have policy like that.

Oh, and this is a 3 page minimum thread.
 
Originally posted by SWUtigers:

Also, what is it about this "church" that makes people get so defensive? I have close friends that work and/or attend services and they are borderline militant about this place. This blog, in particular, makes me wonder about the "culture" being created in mega churches.

Perhaps I just don't understand because I've never set foot in there but I wonder what some here have to say.
Click to expand...
Tell me about it. You say one thing about the mighty Newspring and people fly off the handle. I love my church. I love my pastor. Where's Jesus in all this? 3rd?
 
It's not quite fair to accuse people of getting "defensive" when so many people are reflexively critical. There are good reasons to criticize mega- churches like NewSpring, but it seems like to me (and maybe this is just me being really Protestant) that as long as they're theologically orthodox it's "different strokes for different folks."

All that said, I don't think NewSpring exercises any kind of "influence" over anybody in the football program except in their spiritual lives.
 
Originally posted by SWUtigers:
Thank you for the summation, elvis and miller.

I do have one more question, I hear there are no crosses in the church. If so, what's their justification for this?

Posted from Rivals Mobile
Click to expand...
There is nothing but an auditorium. What is the justification for having a cross? It is just a symbol. I know people who wear crosses around their necks on a chain, but does it mean anything ? I would say read Romans 10:14. It's all about what they hear, not what kind of symbols are hanging around. If you are insinuating that Jesus is not the sole focus of New Spring, you are wrong. Since you've never been, I would suggest that if you are really this interested in what goes on there, you should go see for yourself. Don't rely on gossip, obviously. Again, the concept of New Spring is to not look "churchy". Many people are turned off by having wear "churchy" clothes, having to act a certain way, having to sit in a "pew", etc., but they will show up in casual clothes, hear some great sounding music and then listen to a regular looking guy in jeans and a T-shirt. I can tell you for sure, Perry Nobles is delivering the Gospel.
 
Miller got it right. I used to be very concerned when I heard of a "movement" or a creative speaker luring people in to the tent! I watched a traveling tent guy, dude named Jay Stract or something, save a bunch of my friends and got them on such an emotional high. When they came off the high, they were back to the good ole drunks that were me and my friends.

When I first attended NewSpring some 7 years ago, I was very skeptical of the whole thing. That first day, Perry preached on false idols and stated that if you worship me, and do no know Jesus Christ, you will surely go to hell. He also went on to talk about how he was so flawed and really had to battle to keep away from a porn addiction. At that time I was rubbing out 3 a day and thought people who didn't do that were gay! lol.

Which brings me to today. I am a very flawed Christian and a proud to be a NewSpring member. I try not to get defensive of legalists and non believers saying bad things about NewSpring but they say the things, that through my experiences, I would have said years ago but now I know better. I have a dude I work with who asked where I went to church and I told him NewSpring. He responded with a shitty "Ugh!" and said "If I wanted to go to a rock concert I would go there but I want to go to church!". This dude has a wife that only wears dresses and no makeup, doesn't believe in wearing wedding rings because they are too flashy and has pressed the issue at work over our boss telling him he needs to read his Bible at home instead of at work. Never once in all his blabbering all this bull crap did I judge dude or say anything to him. The one time he asks me about my church, the only thing that comes out of his cocksucker is "Ugh". That's why I get a little ill with people saying crap about NewSpring. Just shut your stupid mouths.
 
The only part I get defensive of is when folks, who never have attended, call it a cult. Perry is not perfect and Newspring isn't perfect, but I've never met a pastor or been to a church that is. The church isn't traditional, but it has been instrumental in bringing a lot of folks to The Lord, and ultimately, that is the point of the church right?
 
I can understand concern about NewSpring. They generate a good deal of controversy. It's ultimately up to coach Swinney to decide how to run his program though, and the decision of where to attend church is his (team vote?) as well.
 
"On June 13, Ben Milstead mailed a signed resignation letter in my
name to the provost at Anderson University, where I am a tenured
associate professor of communication. On June 16, the provost emailed me
to communicate his regret at my resignation. I informed him that it was
a hoax and, thankfully, retained my job.

Milstead later explained that he had discussed the plan to send the
letter with Maxwell, and they had wanted it to draw the university's
attention to my blog, with the goal of having them censor it or shut it
down.

It didn't work that way, and their assumption demonstrated a poor
understanding of the place of debate within a Christian liberal arts
institution. University administrators have never talked to me about my
blog, either to praise it or condemn it. So long as I'm not speaking for
the university?and I'm not?, our robust academic community encourages
thinking and debate on a wide range of important issues."

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't Ben Milstead work for WCCP?
 
Interesting take...I attend a mid-size church here in Atlanta and it's full of normal, hard working people who believe in God. They are not militant...so why characterize all large churches as such?

You can make a case, that most fans are so fanatical about their school they are militant in the way they protect it!
 
Originally posted by haymond1977:
Miller got it right. I used to be very concerned when I heard of a "movement" or a creative speaker luring people in to the tent! I watched a traveling tent guy, dude named Jay Stract or something, save a bunch of my friends and got them on such an emotional high. When they came off the high, they were back to the good ole drunks that were me and my friends.

When I first attended NewSpring some 7 years ago, I was very skeptical of the whole thing. That first day, Perry preached on false idols and stated that if you worship me, and do no know Jesus Christ, you will surely go to hell. He also went on to talk about how he was so flawed and really had to battle to keep away from a porn addiction. At that time I was rubbing out 3 a day and thought people who didn't do that were gay! lol.

Which brings me to today. I am a very flawed Christian and a proud to be a NewSpring member. I try not to get defensive of legalists and non believers saying bad things about NewSpring but they say the things, that through my experiences, I would have said years ago but now I know better. I have a dude I work with who asked where I went to church and I told him NewSpring. He responded with a shitty "Ugh!" and said "If I wanted to go to a rock concert I would go there but I want to go to church!". This dude has a wife that only wears dresses and no makeup, doesn't believe in wearing wedding rings because they are too flashy and has pressed the issue at work over our boss telling him he needs to read his Bible at home instead of at work. Never once in all his blabbering all this bull crap did I judge dude or say anything to him. The one time he asks me about my church, the only thing that comes out of his cocksucker is "Ugh". That's why I get a little ill with people saying crap about NewSpring. Just shut your stupid mouths.
Click to expand...
That's how I would respond to criticism, you know instead of conversation. I'd immediately head towards angry internal resentment towards that individual and his spouse.

We are all flawed Christians. That's why Jesus (not the mexican) came.
 
Originally posted by orangelvis:
Originally posted by SWUtigers:
Thank you for the summation, elvis and miller.

I do have one more question, I hear there are no crosses in the church. If so, what's their justification for this?

Posted from Rivals Mobile
Click to expand...
There is nothing but an auditorium. What is the justification for having a cross? It is just a symbol. I know people who wear crosses around their necks on a chain, but does it mean anything ? I would say read Romans 10:14. It's all about what they hear, not what kind of symbols are hanging around. If you are insinuating that Jesus is not the sole focus of New Spring, you are wrong. Since you've never been, I would suggest that if you are really this interested in what goes on there, you should go see for yourself. Don't rely on gossip, obviously. Again, the concept of New Spring is to not look "churchy". Many people are turned off by having wear "churchy" clothes, having to act a certain way, having to sit in a "pew", etc., but they will show up in casual clothes, hear some great sounding music and then listen to a regular looking guy in jeans and a T-shirt. I can tell you for sure, Perry Nobles is delivering the Gospel.
Click to expand...
I really don't care how someone dresses if they want to worship Jesus. My church has two different services, one traditional and the other is more contemporary. My wife and I choose the latter because it makes us more comfortable.

I think asking about a significant symbols is a legitimate question, though and one I would like to know the answer.Has no one ever questioned that there?

By the way, I hear Perry has quite the expensive wardrobe and lifestyle. Does this not bother you? If I'm inaccurate in that assessment, please let me know. I'm genuinely intrigued by this culture...from afar. And if my church were throwing out large sums to the pastor, I would make it known. Recently, I made it known that some of the upgrades with our church should go to somewhere more worthwhile...in the community to those in TRUE need.
 
Originally posted by SWUtigers:
Thank you for the summation, elvis and miller.

I do have one more question, I hear there are no crosses in the church. If so, what's their justification for this?
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Click to expand...
Total Transparency: I was a non-believer, pretty much a horrible person, before I started going to NewSpring in 00/01ish....probably late 01. New Spring was tiny, less than 200 people total meeting at Anderson College (lol at calling that place a university).

I don't know about crosses, but as someone who is not 'religious' per se I do not understand why so many Christians utilize the cross as a symbol -- would not the empty tomb be a little more significant for a believer? The cross was a preferred means of execution -- as Christians we have hope because of the empty tomb.

I liked a lot about New Spring and as a complete train wreck walking in the environment was perfect for me, but as I grew older wanted a little more expository preaching style but also with a similar emphasis on the gospel, applications, pragmatics and sanctification.

I would be honest if Perry's 'rock star' persona wasn't troubling to me....
 
It's like crossfit. If you are apart of it it's the greatest thing in the world but if you aren't then you just aren't doing it right.
 
Originally posted by OrangeForever:


Originally posted by SWUtigers:
Thank you for the summation, elvis and miller.

I do have one more question, I hear there are no crosses in the church. If so, what's their justification for this?

Posted from Rivals Mobile
Click to expand...
Total Transparency: I was a non-believer, pretty much a horrible person, before I started going to NewSpring in 00/01ish....probably late 01. New Spring was tiny, less than 200 people total meeting at Anderson College (lol at calling that place a university).

I don't know about crosses, but as someone who is not 'religious' per se I do not understand why so many Christians utilize the cross as a symbol -- would not the empty tomb be a little more significant for a believer? The cross was a preferred means of execution -- as Christians we have hope because of the empty tomb.

I liked a lot about New Spring and as a complete train wreck walking in the environment was perfect for me, but as I grew older wanted a little more expository preaching style but also with a similar emphasis on the gospel, applications, pragmatics and sanctification.

I would be honest if Perry's 'rock star' persona wasn't troubling to me....
Click to expand...
Agree with this. Most Newspring folks I come in contact with have PN so high on a pedestal that only God could be his equal. "I love my church" and " I love my pastor" are heard ten times more than "I love my Lord and Saviour" Thankful for the souls he has reached but pretty skeptical of the hero worship culture that seems to exist there.
 
Originally posted by haymond1977:
Miller got it right. I used to be very concerned when I heard of a "movement" or a creative speaker luring people in to the tent! I watched a traveling tent guy, dude named Jay Stract or something, save a bunch of my friends and got them on such an emotional high. When they came off the high, they were back to the good ole drunks that were me and my friends.

When I first attended NewSpring some 7 years ago, I was very skeptical of the whole thing. That first day, Perry preached on false idols and stated that if you worship me, and do no know Jesus Christ, you will surely go to hell. He also went on to talk about how he was so flawed and really had to battle to keep away from a porn addiction. At that time I was rubbing out 3 a day and thought people who didn't do that were gay! lol.

Which brings me to today. I am a very flawed Christian and a proud to be a NewSpring member. I try not to get defensive of legalists and non believers saying bad things about NewSpring but they say the things, that through my experiences, I would have said years ago but now I know better. I have a dude I work with who asked where I went to church and I told him NewSpring. He responded with a shitty "Ugh!" and said "If I wanted to go to a rock concert I would go there but I want to go to church!". This dude has a wife that only wears dresses and no makeup, doesn't believe in wearing wedding rings because they are too flashy and has pressed the issue at work over our boss telling him he needs to read his Bible at home instead of at work. Never once in all his blabbering all this bull crap did I judge dude or say anything to him. The one time he asks me about my church, the only thing that comes out of his cocksucker is "Ugh". That's why I get a little ill with people saying crap about NewSpring. Just shut your stupid mouths.
Click to expand...
Thank you for making my point.
 
BCTiger8, I could not have said it any better,good post!! Be nice if Christians would stop being our on worst enemy's, beating up on each other!!!
 
Also, many people do notice the rotational pattern to sermons and it does become a place where you hit a plateau in your growth that Sunday school would normally address. Home groups and personal study help in that regard, as does volunteering. I continue to go there instead of finding another church simply because the children's ministry is amazing and what turned me away when I was younger was a negative youth group experience. I volunteer and am about to start a home group in Easley but right now if I miss a service it doesn't bother me because I have generally heard it all already.

NewSpring is designed to be a place where people with little faith can be comfortable and hear the gospel and it succeeds greatly in that regard. I love that and it helped me too.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
Originally posted by SEHTiger:
Interesting take...I attend a mid-size church here in Atlanta and it's full of normal, hard working people who believe in God. They are not militant...so why characterize all large churches as such?

You can make a case, that most fans are so fanatical about their school they are militant in the way they protect it!
Click to expand...
I don't think I ever characterized "all large churches" as militant. If that's how you took my words, I apologize. I attend a pretty larger church in Columbia and try to do what I can to make a significant impact inside and outside of the church. I'm also extremely concerned as to how our funds are used outside the church and of course inside, more importantly.

But I've never seen this type of behavior (from the above poster as an example) from "regular" church goers. Now that's not to say there aren't those who are genuinely passionate about their church, but I've never seen the AMOUNT of followers this fanatical (for lack of a better term) towards one church before.
 
the only thing that comes out of his cocksucker is "Ugh"

Haymond, you literally just made me spew my drink out my nose. Finally, a man I could go to church with here!! LOL.
 
If you are referring to the "I love my church" t-shirts, those are worn by every mega church in the country.

Newspring was actually founded and based off of Andy Stanley's churches in the Atlanta area. My church in Lubbock, TX was founded based on much of Perry and Newspring's practices and teachings.

The people that are discriminating against Perry and Newspring are the same people that have never been to that church to experience it for themselves.

If that church is bringing people to the Lord like it is and those people want to express that appreciation to others, than how does that make it a cult?

I can't stand this whole religious debate on here and how at the least little thing, Perry or Newspring is brought into the thread. Give it up and worship the Lord in your own way or if you don't know Him, quit badgering those who do.
 
Haymond must have missed the sermon that highlighted "Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh"
 
Originally posted by SWUtigers:
Thank you for the summation, elvis and miller.

I do have one more question, I hear there are no crosses in the church. If so, what's their justification for this?
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Click to expand...
Some churches prefer to place the importance on resurrection instead of the death.

I am not a NewSpring member and I have never been there. I'm more conservative when it comes to my worship beliefs but I have zero problem with any type of organization that brings people to God and to be better people.

Everyone has the right to choose for themselves.
 
You guys werent searching the web with one hand back then? You could break my sheets in half 7 years ago.

I dont mind picking at myself. Im sure some on here still beat it like it owes you money.
 
Originally posted by haymond1977:
At that time I was rubbing out 3 a day and thought people who didn't do that were gay! lol.
The one time he asks me about my church, the only thing that comes out of his cocksucker is "Ugh". That's why I get a little ill with people saying crap about NewSpring. Just shut your stupid mouths.
Click to expand...
ME THINKS THIS COULD BE A VERY, VERY SLY TROLL. WELL DONE.
 
I don't have a problem with people who have really strong opinions in support of their faith. They should if they truly believe right. As long as they don't infringe upon the rights or opinions of others. I know nothing about the Newspring church or its congregation or any of the churches in Clemson in which to compare them to.

I do however, like many, cringe when I hear people say more about what their pastor said as opposed to what Jesus said. Churches in many cases are bringing many people IN but are they actually bringing them to Jesus or are they just bringing them to that church? It's not the same thing. The church is not about a show, or just bringing a lot of people or money in. Bringing them to Christ and seeing lives changed is what its all about in my opinion. If Newspring is changing lives by bringing people to Jesus, then good for them.
 
Originally posted by Chefkdh:
If you are referring to the "I love my church" t-shirts, those are worn by every mega church in the country.

Newspring was actually founded and based off of Andy Stanley's churches in the Atlanta area. My church in Lubbock, TX was founded based on much of Perry and Newspring's practices and teachings.

The people that are discriminating against Perry and Newspring are the same people that have never been to that church to experience it for themselves.

If that church is bringing people to the Lord like it is and those people want to express that appreciation to others, than how does that make it a cult?

I can't stand this whole religious debate on here and how at the least little thing, Perry or Newspring is brought into the thread. Give it up and worship the Lord in your own way or if you don't know Him, quit badgering those who do.
Click to expand...
Can I make as much money as Perry if I start a church like this?
 
Originally posted by jmh9713:

"On June 13, Ben Milstead mailed a signed resignation letter in my
name to the provost at Anderson University, where I am a tenured
associate professor of communication. On June 16, the provost emailed me
to communicate his regret at my resignation. I informed him that it was
a hoax and, thankfully, retained my job.

Milstead later explained that he had discussed the plan to send the
letter with Maxwell, and they had wanted it to draw the university's
attention to my blog, with the goal of having them censor it or shut it
down.

It didn't work that way, and their assumption demonstrated a poor
understanding of the place of debate within a Christian liberal arts
institution. University administrators have never talked to me about my
blog, either to praise it or condemn it. So long as I'm not speaking for
the university?and I'm not?, our robust academic community encourages
thinking and debate on a wide range of important issues."

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't Ben Milstead work for WCCP?
Click to expand...
Can you explain this a little? Who's name was the resignation letter sent in?

EDIT TO ADD: Never mind, I found it. Holy crap! Those are some hellacious accusations!

Who knows who is telling the truth (truth is often found in the middle of the two sides of the argument) but that is some bad stuff. I know some people on AU's staff and may have to ask about Mr. (Dr.?) Duncan and if he is credible.

I can't say what I would do if my family were put through what his was, but I would be PISSED!!

Other thing that concerned me a little bit is I tried a while back to find some bio information on Noble. Couldn't seem to find anything. I just did an internet search - nothing fancy - since I was just trying to figure out if he was the same guy I thought he was (former youth pastor in Anderson somewhere).

But I know nothing of Newspring overall so I do not want to judge them as good or bad. I'll stick with my Church though.


This post was edited on 4/16 3:03 PM by CU Alumnus

This post was edited on 4/16 3:54 PM by CU Alumnus

This post was edited on 4/16 4:06 PM by CU Alumnus
 
Originally posted by tiger-gal2:
Originally posted by OrangeForever:


Originally posted by SWUtigers:
Thank you for the summation, elvis and miller.

I do have one more question, I hear there are no crosses in the church. If so, what's their justification for this?

Posted from Rivals Mobile
Click to expand...
Total Transparency: I was a non-believer, pretty much a horrible person, before I started going to NewSpring in 00/01ish....probably late 01. New Spring was tiny, less than 200 people total meeting at Anderson College (lol at calling that place a university).

I don't know about crosses, but as someone who is not 'religious' per se I do not understand why so many Christians utilize the cross as a symbol -- would not the empty tomb be a little more significant for a believer? The cross was a preferred means of execution -- as Christians we have hope because of the empty tomb.

I liked a lot about New Spring and as a complete train wreck walking in the environment was perfect for me, but as I grew older wanted a little more expository preaching style but also with a similar emphasis on the gospel, applications, pragmatics and sanctification.

I would be honest if Perry's 'rock star' persona wasn't troubling to me....
Click to expand...
Agree with this. Most Newspring folks I come in contact with have PN so high on a pedestal that only God could be his equal. "I love my church" and " I love my pastor" are heard ten times more than "I love my Lord and Saviour" Thankful for the souls he has reached but pretty skeptical of the hero worship culture that seems to exist there.
Honestly this kind of bothers me too a little bit. Not quite sure what to make of it.
Click to expand...
 
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