One thing I don't understand about the Protesters...

[TigerLion06]

Let me preface this with I do NOT believe in segregation. What I am saying is prior to integration there were viable black communities, schools, businesses, churches, etc. that had leaders that were proud and were able to get the community to think and act independently for the betterment of themselves. The Federal Government destroyed that. Albeit for Integration...which is no doubt a good thing. I believe busing was the catalyst that started the tearing up of their community by splitting the children up from their own community. With the obvious lowering of education standards for everyone (because somehow the Government had a silly, stupid notion blacks were inferior intellectually..which was bullshit), the problems started.

I certainly don't have an answer, but what I do know it's not money and freaking Liberalism. You libs believe what the heck you want and can continue to deceive yourselves...along with the "Big Government" Republicans. If the black leaders like Jessie and friends truly wanted to help their people, they would have approached it differently after MLK was murdered. They sold themselves out. And here we are today.

There are still plenty of viable black communities just as you suggested all throughout the nation in all the ways you mentioned. There are plenty of movements within the black community whose quest is to reduce black on black crime, stop teen pregnancy and all of that. Yes, even after integration. Wow. Even tho it doesn't seem this way, The number of black folks doing well would surprise you.

 

[Transference]

You're a trip....and tripping. Do you create this stuff or get it from Liberalism for Dummies?

I love that you became more racist as the thread went on, even suggesting that minorities were better off during segregation than they are now.

Any other societal observations you have for us?

 

[tigerGUY]

There are still plenty of viable black communities just as you suggested all throughout the nation in all the ways you mentioned. There are plenty of movements within the black community whose quest is to reduce black on black crime, stop teen pregnancy and all of that. Yes, even after integration. Wow. Even tho it doesn't seem this way, The number of black folks doing well would surprise you.

You're wrong. Probably 30% of my clients are Black commercial construction company Owners. Damn good folks that do well. I'm proud they have the faith and trust in me to help them generate more work. The same as all my clients. It's just not close to what it was...and THAT'S a shame.

 

[tigerGUY]

I love that you became more racist as the thread went on, even suggesting that minorities were better off during segregation than they are now.

Any other societal observations you have for us?

If that's how you read it, so be it. Don't freaking put words in my mouth. You're not clever enough, apparently, to understand anything other than your opinion. Again, do you create this stuff or get it from Liberalism for Dummies? Y

 

[Transference]

If that's how you read it, so be it. Don't freaking put words in my mouth. You're not clever enough, apparently, to understand anything other than your opinion. Again, do you create this stuff or get it from Liberalism for Dummies? Y

No one has to put any words in your mouth, you say enough stupid shit as it is...

 

[TigerLion06]

You're wrong. Probably 30% of my clients are Black commercial construction company Owners. Damn good folks that do well. I'm proud they have the faith and trust in me to help them generate more work. The same as all my clients. It's just not close to what it was...and THAT'S a shame.

LOL based on what you usually spew on here I'm going to call BS. You can say whatever you like tho but pretty sure your comments and feelings on everything you comment about can tell us more about you than your cute little stories.

 

[CUbeatFSU]

Came here for the racist train wreck. Was not disappointed.

 

[bwhwc]

Came here for the racist train wreck. Was not disappointed.

Some should really just stick to posting on Clemson sports, nothing else.

 

[tigerGUY]

LOL based on what you usually spew on here I'm going to call BS. You can say whatever you like tho but pretty sure your comments and feelings on everything you comment about can tell us more about you than your cute little stories.

Call it whatever the fvck you want. The truth is you get out of whatever I say what YOU want it to say. My advice is ignore everything I write. You don't have a clue who I am other than what you want to read on here? That's lame mo fo.

 

[tigerGUY]

No one has to put any words in your mouth, you say enough stupid shit as it is...

You're a genius transference. You have never said anything on here I thought was stupid....NOT. For God's sake ignore it what I write if you don't like it. Unless you have a smartass comment about what I write, I promise you I don't read a thing you say. It's garbage and the drivel of an inbred moron. Peace bitch.

 

[TigerLion06]

Call it whatever the fvck you want. The truth is you get out of whatever I say what YOU want it to say. My advice is ignore everything I write. You don't have a clue who I am other than what you want to read on here? That's lame mo fo.

I already ignore everything you write basically. One problem tho. I love a good comedy and I love a good tragedy. Your comments satisfy one or the other and weirdly sometimes both in the same thread. Thanks for the advice tho. I think I'll pass and just continue to enjoy you for those reasons. And I'm pretty sure there is a consensus on what WE ALL get from your posts. Now entertain me some more.

 

[CUbeatFSU]

 

[hillf02]

http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2015/04/2...etnam-vet-who-stood-between-rioters-and-cops/

 

[JAMCRACKER99]

[QUOTE="TigerLion06, post: 81747, member: 6140"]bflow, excuse me but you are a sad excuse for a human being and thats that. You are beyond ignorant and I'm not sure that will change. I guarantee many on here that generally agree with you even shook their head at some of your comments. You are a piece of crap as a human being[/QUOTE]

 

[tigerGUY]

I already ignore everything you write basically. One problem tho. I love a good comedy and I love a good tragedy. Your comments satisfy one or the other and weirdly sometimes both in the same thread. Thanks for the advice tho. I think I'll pass and just continue to enjoy you for those reasons. And I'm pretty sure there is a consensus on what WE ALL get from your posts. Now entertain me some more.

I'll say again, ignore me. The problem with you is you don't have the guts to put out there what you believe in. I do. You don't have to agree with me. I just don't have anything from you to agree with or not agree with. No guts. So when SHTF, we'll be on opposite sides....I guess. How would I know when you're nadless? Want to keep this stupid shit up? Then tell me something...otherwise go pound sand and poke me with a fork.

 

[TigerLion06]

I'll say again, ignore me. The problem with you is you don't have the guts to put out there what you believe in. I do. You don't have to agree with me. I just don't have anything from you to agree with or not agree with. No guts. So when SHTF, we'll be on opposite sides....I guess. How would I know when you're nadless? Want to keep this stupid shit up? Then tell me something...otherwise go pound sand and poke me with a fork.

I just typed a dissertation damn near and you don't know where I stand? Stupid too? I stand far away from you. I'm a conservative by nature and in most things but far from a jackass. I remained entertained by you tho. Thanks again.

 

[Steven15]

"White flight" is about to be death of cities like Baltimore. Other ethnicities(not just white) are genuinely scared of blacks more now than I have ever seen in my near 30 years of life. Yes. Scared to be around them. They do not hate them per se. They just don't want to be around them because of the last 5 ish years starting with the Trayvon Martin stuff. It's been one instance after another of rioting and protesting and it is pathetic. Utterly pathetic. There are over 400 million people living in this country. Math says cops will make mistakes. If proven to be in the wrong by our legal system, they will be punished. White/Asian/Indian, teens/adults/elderly are taken down forcefully by police almost daily in this country. Some are killed in the process. No riots and no protesting to this degree take place. 1 common denominator in all of this is I have yet to see ANY case where some innocent person without a record and was not doing anything wrong was gunned down for no reason. Every single one was a felon or criminal or preforming and illegal act. If these are the types of people the blacks want to make martyrs over and destroy their own city so be it. Go ahead and worsen stereotypes that were beginning to dissipate for years and years. Ruin all the progress that has been made. It wasn't were it needed to be but it was improving slowly. Now throw it all in the garbage.........

Everyone will leave and want nothing to do with them. The term "white flight" this time is brought on by their own actions. If something like this happened near me I would be gone ASAP. I can't fix it and neither can anyone else. They need to fix themselves and stop the blame game.

/ of personal opinion I'm prepared to get slammed for.

 

[catchandrelease]

Slave owners were able to keep control by keeping the slaves ignorant and dependent. No different than what Democrats and the welfare program do today. The plantation of today is Washington DC.

Every one both white and black needs to read Dr Thomas Sowell's book, Black Rednecks and White Liberals. It will open your eyes. He shows how before intergration, there were black schools who tested higher on the national level than a lot of white schools and how after intergration, those schools ended up closing. He details how the Muslims where and still are the worlds biggest slave dealers. I can go on but do yourself a favor and read his book. Oh, by the way, he is a black American.

 

[boosetiger]

I will say the protesters may have a point (not the rioters). I was coming back from Clemson and ran into a sobriety check. I'm stone sober. Cop about 30yrs old, looks at my driver's license and says, "you are from Greenville what are doing over here?" I told him this was the United States of America and it was none of his damn business what I was doing "over here". He asked me to step out of the car, which I did. He asked if he could search my car, I said "no". I dialed my attorney's number and told the cop I was going to let him hear the rest of our conversation. Then told me I could go. Upon reflection, had I been black I would probably have gone to jail. That's what happens when the Constitution and the 4th amendment no longer mean anything.

 

[Florida Tiger]

I will say the protesters may have a point (not the rioters). I was coming back from Clemson and ran into a sobriety check. I'm stone sober. Cop about 30yrs old, looks at my driver's license and says, "you are from Greenville what are doing over here?" I told him this was the United States of America and it was none of his damn business what I was doing "over here". He asked me to step out of the car, which I did. He asked if he could search my car, I said "no". I dialed my attorney's number and told the cop I was going to let him hear the rest of our conversation. Then told me I could go. Upon reflection, had I been black I would probably have gone to jail. That's what happens when the Constitution and the 4th amendment no longer mean anything.

You want get away being a smart ass many times. He should have taken you in you dont disrespect the law. You were wrong

 

[coop#]

So the cop was just doing his job and you went out of your way to be disrespectful. He should have tased you.

 

[boosetiger]

Under what law do the police have the right to know why I was in Clemson? Under the Constitution the police are prevented from making searches with no evidence of wrongdoing. For very good reason. Nazi Germany got its start that way. I don't think, under the Constitution, sobriety checks are legal and there's a lot of legal precedent to back me up. Of course, as our freedoms have been eroded there is a lot that don't. The cop was disrespecting the law. link

 

[CUbeatFSU]

It's really sad that people think a cop asking you to step out of the car and wanting to search said car is "just doing his job".

It's "Serve and Protect", not "Harass and Intimidate".

 

[CUT93]

CUT93 I'll attempt to address a couple of your points because they are in the very least good points of discussion if people really are trying to make progress. Your point about the leadership of the city or government is taken but you didn't prove it wasn't a race issue you proved that the abusers can be of ANY race not just white. Case in point, a black officer can more easily abuse his responsibility as an officer against a young black male than he can a white one. And this happens a lot. He's not immune from being an abuser because he is black, as long as the abused is black he'll receive less questions as to the validity or truth of his account of what happened. The abused is the one that lacks credibility. Also, black people aren't immune from being poor leaders as many of you would agree. There are corrupt black leaders that will also take advantage of the weak just like a white leader may. Corruption is corruption. If the leadership was all, white that wouldn't be enough to prove race was the issue so being mostly black tells us nothing as well. Your Harlem example was great but that speaks as if those attempts aren't being made in many places and they are not supported where they need to be. They were fully supported and that was the reason they were successful. Harlem or the attempt to be Harlem is not unique. I agree with some of your political comments in general as far as failed methods to deal with many of these issues.

bflow, excuse me but you are a sad excuse for a human being and thats that. You are beyond ignorant and I'm not sure that will change. I guarantee many on here that generally agree with you even shook their head at some of your comments. You are a piece of crap as a human being. Discussing white flight in the form you are discussing is very sad and irresponsible. White flight isn't about race as much as it is about economics. Thats unfair for you to place white folks in the box you just did. Even black folks participate in that for economic reasons that are tied to more than just race. And to your dumb a$$ point about white people being more afraid NOW. Just wow. White people are less afraid than ever and that is indicated by the freedom in which black issues are supported by white people. White people will support whats right more now than anytime in the history of this country regardless of race. In the past there was a fear that you would be labeled if you supported a "black cause" but now people feel more free to do what they think is right. Even conservatives will support something that makes sense regardless of race more than ever. Perfect? No. But people more freely express themselves in support of others outside of their race more than ever. They are dating and working with one another more than ever.

Then you go on to mention the one instance after another of rioting and protesting. Again you are a piece of crap. How often does your under developed brain tell you these things are occurring? The riots for sports reasons happen WAY more often than riots because of race. We have 2 recently right? Even the ones in Baltimore weren't representative of the majority of people that live there. You're just not smart enough to realize that. Most black people and their kids were at home. 99% of the black folks in the area were at home and not rioting. Even the peaceful protesters were a small part of the population in Baltimore.

Math says cops make mistakes. No one disagrees with that. When the mistakes are based on fear that is based on race its scary to the black folks in general and not just criminals. Your dumb a$$ comment about none of the mistakes happening to anyone other than criminals and making martyrs of them couldn't be more insensitive and inaccurate. There are plenty of innocent people being victimized. You can't hear about all of them and many result in injury not death and they do not have video to support them so there is no case. This doesn't start because a bunch of criminals are mistreated. It happens because innocent blacks are being treated like the criminals. You have zero perspective making a statement like that.

Police in general are not the problem alone but the environment within a station that says you won't be questioned if you kill a black person as compared to a white. This leaves a dangerous place for the few bad people on the force to operate. It also puts good cops in a horrible position themselves where the culture forces them to adhere to silly codes protecting one another. They are between a rock and a hard place and their lives are on the line in a different way.

Even in the case of your "criminals" behaving badly and being killed as a result. Some of the the times when people are killed, their behavior worse case shouldn't result in DEATH. There are tons of examples of cops facing terrible situations and due to the combination of training and their heart condition, people don't die. They are brought to justice and they die if it was the only choice. Plenty of those situations are occurring daily without protest. What happened to shooting someone in the leg? 8 cops shoot center mass at a person who runs toward them without a weapon? Or maybe the person had a knife? There are literally thousands of cops who are handling these situations daily without incident or protest. We need to revamp our system and way of thinking to save lives. Far too many places have forgotten what an officers job is. Its not to shoot people that are behaving badly.

And getting shot and protesting about it doesn't worsen stereotypes unless you are already insanely stupid. You are most likely smart enough to say that the rioters are the bad guys not all people that look like them. Therefore stereotypes don't get worse. Is that clear enough for you? Again I hope many agree that you are a piece of crap but somehow I think deep down inside you have a similar opinion of yourself and thats why you say the things that you say. I truly appreciate the people on here that can have a discussion without making it worse. There are plenty of legit concerns and questions that people not operating in that world can fairly have. Some like bflow probably delight in making things worse with gross hyperbole and plain stupid comments.
Thanks for reading.

I am really not sure how to address your statement above, because it is not logical. My point was not that there was not bad leadership or even abuse of the black community in Baltimore. My point was that it was not a result of racism, unless you are saying the black leadership hates other black people. In your example of the black cop abusing the black male, are you saying the black cop was motivated by racism????The fact that you cite bad leadership and corruption as causes proves my point. Bad leadership and corruption do not equal racism. This is my point. More times than not, bad leadership and corruption from within the community as well as from local government is the reason many black communities, particularly in larger cities, are the situation they are in.

To your point about Harlem, you are correct that support from the local government was key in the revitalization of Harlem. However, the government had been throwing money at Harlem for years before this with no (good) results. It was only after the community decided to help themselves that local support made any difference.

 

[One Fingerd Fist]

It's really sad that people think a cop asking you to step out of the car and wanting to search said car is "just doing his job".

It's "Serve and Protect", not "Harass and Intimidate".

No doubt. In no way do police deserve my respect. Do I respect most police, yes. But their job title does not come with the right to always be respected. As a white male, I rarely come in contact with police. When I do, it's always a curteous experience. What separates me from a lot of other white males, I know it's not like that for my black counterparts.

This thread has lost sight of the argument, as members are now arguing archaic points regarding segregation and god knows what else. But when did police quit protecting the communities they serve? When they became soldiers in the "War on Drugs". This turned impoverished communities (black, white, Hispanic) into the front line of a war. Thus relegating the members of these communities as enemies of the state.

Want to fix a lot of these problems with in the urban communities? Decriminalize drugs. All of them. (Not legalize) But as it stands, urban communities lose their too be leaders to prison before they come of age.

"then why do these animals sell drugs?" Because chik-fi-let isn't opening any stores in their area any time soon. Because they can make a living in doing so. A capitalist country has no business telling someone not to sell a product that's in high demand when the need isn't being met. Quit punishing the people for trying to survive, and start treating the environment that makes a large portion of its community turn to drugs. They are in pain, and need everyone help.

 

[One Fingerd Fist]

Btw these forums can be a place to discuss issues where everyone can come away more enriched. For those who argue and scream : "racist, ignorant, ect" we all realize your anger is either coming from fear or ignorance. And both those can be solved through educating your self on the topic. It is a very important topic.

I belive WW3 is already in the making. We are going to need a strong United Homefront. Let's take care of our own. These communities suffering through the current landscape are more American than the most of us. Those "thugs" selling dope, yea even them, are hustling their ass off to put food on the table. Imagine your worst day at work, unless you're a soldier, I'd feel safe saying these corner boys had a much harder day.

 

[igachoochoo]

yes, hats off to Mr. Robert Valentine. If he is 72 and a Vietnam vet he was over there in the very early days of that war.....

 

[TigerLion06]

I am really not sure how to address your statement above, because it is not logical. My point was not that there was not bad leadership or even abuse of the black community in Baltimore. My point was that it was not a result of racism, unless you are saying the black leadership hates other black people. In your example of the black cop abusing the black male, are you saying the black cop was motivated by racism????The fact that you cite bad leadership and corruption as causes proves my point. Bad leadership and corruption do not equal racism. This is my point. More times than not, bad leadership and corruption from within the community as well as from local government is the reason many black communities, particularly in larger cities, are the situation they are in.

To your point about Harlem, you are correct that support from the local government was key in the revitalization of Harlem. However, the government had been throwing money at Harlem for years before this with no (good) results. It was only after the community decided to help themselves that local support made any difference.

My point regarding the black cop is that not only white people abuse black folks as many seem to think. The image of young black males in this country is not very good even though the majority are good. Yes the majority are good. Go look up the statistics and you'll see while there is an alarming number of perpetrators, the good ones still outnumber the bad ones. So when a black officer encounters a young black male, even he can be influenced by the portrayal of that group and they also end up doing a poor job. I have had to correct people on their treatment especially when its a good kid and I have to say no wait. Thats a good kid right there. Almost as if I had to pre-identify him as a good kid and not one of the bad ones so he won't get mistreated. Shouldn't they all get that benefit of the doubt until otherwise shown? But they don't in many cases. So racism is usually called out when its a white person but when a black person does it to another its "because" of the race of the person. Kinda different but the same. People think black people aren't influenced by the stereotypes of their own race. Heck white folks do it to other white folks and black folks do it to white folks based on other factors. Socioeconomic condition does not discriminate. Well to do white folks in some cases mistreat white folks they consider to be beneath them differently right. And vice-verse. Some folks with less act like its the person who's doing well fault and look down upon them. We are all subject to it.

I do think that leaders in these communities take advantage of the community and sell them out. When white leaders do it people incorrectly assume well thats to be expected. They don't care anything about those people. When black leaders do it we say why would they do it to their own people. The problem is the power can corrupt anyone. Its less about race and more about those leaders trying to get rich because they don't know how long they'll have those opportunities. They are not true servants of the people. That has nothing to do with race. Thats why I said black leadership can be bad as well even in a predominantly black community. Someone made a comment about the makeup of the local govt, fire chief, etc as if to say see what happens when they lead? So much for hope, change and whatever. That is a sad thing to say. There are many struggling communities and when they fail no one says look the leadership was white so thats why they failed. There are many black leaders at the local level doing just fine. Black folks are subject to being both good and bad at leadership just like anyone else. Maybe they have the wrong ones in charge but that city has struggled for a long time during both black and white times in leadership.

We agree mostly if not fully. I do question one thing you said " It was only after the community decided to help themselves that local support made any difference". You think that was the last thing holding them back? Harlem had a rich history and this is not the first time it has been in a good place. That community was raped and pillaged economically and left for dead because of the success it was enjoying and you basically just something akin to they were holding themselves back. I often hear people minimizing the solutions with statements like that. I understand your larger point and agree 100 percent but there are factors and corruption by those in the community that don't want those things to happen and they continue to place obstacles in the way keeping it from being as simple as when they decide to get right they will.

Like I said. We agree for the most part. I do think the leadership in Baltimore over the years has been a major part of the problem. Not just this regime. And also the fact that the shift in the policies of this nation over the last 20 years or more has effected Baltimore and many other cities just like it. Good discussion.

 

[CUT93]

My point regarding the black cop is that not only white people abuse black folks as many seem to think. The image of young black males in this country is not very good even though the majority are good. Yes the majority are good. Go look up the statistics and you'll see while there is an alarming number of perpetrators, the good ones still outnumber the bad ones. So when a black officer encounters a young black male, even he can be influenced by the portrayal of that group and they also end up doing a poor job. I have had to correct people on their treatment especially when its a good kid and I have to say no wait. Thats a good kid right there. Almost as if I had to pre-identify him as a good kid and not one of the bad ones so he won't get mistreated. Shouldn't they all get that benefit of the doubt until otherwise shown? But they don't in many cases. So racism is usually called out when its a white person but when a black person does it to another its "because" of the race of the person. Kinda different but the same. People think black people aren't influenced by the stereotypes of their own race. Heck white folks do it to other white folks and black folks do it to white folks based on other factors. Socioeconomic condition does not discriminate. Well to do white folks in some cases mistreat white folks they consider to be beneath them differently right. And vice-verse. Some folks with less act like its the person who's doing well fault and look down upon them. We are all subject to it.

I do think that leaders in these communities take advantage of the community and sell them out. When white leaders do it people incorrectly assume well thats to be expected. They don't care anything about those people. When black leaders do it we say why would they do it to their own people. The problem is the power can corrupt anyone. Its less about race and more about those leaders trying to get rich because they don't know how long they'll have those opportunities. They are not true servants of the people. That has nothing to do with race. Thats why I said black leadership can be bad as well even in a predominantly black community. Someone made a comment about the makeup of the local govt, fire chief, etc as if to say see what happens when they lead? So much for hope, change and whatever. That is a sad thing to say. There are many struggling communities and when they fail no one says look the leadership was white so thats why they failed. There are many black leaders at the local level doing just fine. Black folks are subject to being both good and bad at leadership just like anyone else. Maybe they have the wrong ones in charge but that city has struggled for a long time during both black and white times in leadership.

We agree mostly if not fully. I do question one thing you said " It was only after the community decided to help themselves that local support made any difference". You think that was the last thing holding them back? Harlem had a rich history and this is not the first time it has been in a good place. That community was raped and pillaged economically and left for dead because of the success it was enjoying and you basically just something akin to they were holding themselves back. I often hear people minimizing the solutions with statements like that. I understand your larger point and agree 100 percent but there are factors and corruption by those in the community that don't want those things to happen and they continue to place obstacles in the way keeping it from being as simple as when they decide to get right they will.

Like I said. We agree for the most part. I do think the leadership in Baltimore over the years has been a major part of the problem. Not just this regime. And also the fact that the shift in the policies of this nation over the last 20 years or more has effected Baltimore and many other cities just like it. Good discussion.

It sounds like we agree on a lot of things. One interesting point you make is about rich white people looking down on poor white people. I am white and grew up in a single parent home because my sorry father left when I was young. My mom, worked and went to school and our income was pretty low. I can remember multiple times where I felt like certain groups considered me inferior because of my socioeconomic status. I cant help but think that if I had been black that I may have thought people were looking down on me because of my race. I would be willing to bet that many times a black individual feels like they are be treated differently, it is not necessarily because of there race. I bet often it is about economic status rather than race. In life there are many times where people are treated as inferior due to being poor, too smart, not smart enough, ugly, fat, or a myriad of other characteristics. I honestly think that often times many of these cases are perceived to be racism if the person happens to be black instead of white. That is not to say that racism does not exist, because it certainly does. I just think the perception of racism, and certainly the portrayal of racism by the media is way out of line with reality. One of the biggest problems is that the media and others immediately jump to conclusions before the facts are known. It looks like in the Baltimore case that the facts may be very different from the predetermined story assumed by many. Almost everyone involved that has been in front of a camera, including the Mayor, the media, and even our administration had already jumped to conclusions about the cause of death and used this as an excuse or explanation for criminal behavior. This despite the fact that their opinions were predetermined, uniformed, and without any factual basis. Of course it should not be surprising as this is the same pattern that was followed in the Martin case as well as in Ferguson - immediately jump to conclusions and defend criminal behavior of rioters(even a small percentage) rather than immediately coming out and saying - "hey, why don't we wait until we know what actually happened before we start protesting". The police in Baltimore may absolutely be responsible for his death. The latest stories this morning at least seem to indicate it is possible the police MAY not be to blame. The point is we just don't know yet because we don't have all the facts.
Just think of what would have happened if everyone had waited until the facts came out in the cases of TM and Ferguson BEFORE any action was taken.