The house voted to remove the flag this morning around 1 am, all that is left is for Haley to sign it.
The flag is coming down
- Thread starter NATiger10
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I watched some of the hearing last night. No wonder it takes so long to get things done and often times is flawed.
every few years I get a strong desire to run for a SC house seat, and then i think about the all the BS required to get anything done, the ridiculous commitment of time required for essentially a minimum wage job. the country was a lot better off when we were less a democracy and more a republic. a small group of folks smoking cigars and sipping brandy in a back room could have handled this mess a lot smoother and faster.
The Rep from Laurens introduced like 30 amendments just to waste time including one that would require the American Flag to fly upside down at the State House.
Tillman Hall was also discussed in one amendment. Get ready for a name change it's coming..At one point it was discussed about removing Tillman's statue from state house grounds....
It's a good day in SC.
Kinda uncomfortable watching Jenny Horne go all premenstrual on live TV, but they got it done.
Kinda uncomfortable watching Jenny Horne go all premenstrual on live TV, but they got it done.
He knew he was on a sinking ship. Decided to throw up a ceremonial middle finger. I get it.
Every time I visit the statehouse or hear a report of their 'deliberation', I am embarrassed for them and every citizen of this state. Dysfunctional, myopic and clueless are the most common adjectives I find to describe our elected government officials.
That woman is nuts, and it showed.
Politicians are the stupidest class of people on earth.
A poll, conducted by Winthrop earlier this year, showed that 60% of South Carolinians wanted the flag to stay where it is. Yet Haley declared "We are unified"? What planet is she from, and who does she think she's pleasing.?
They evidently dont remember the turnover 15 years ago when it came off the dome.
Stupid politicians.
This is a good thing and the right thing. That flag had no business being on top of the state house to start off with.
Flag is down, historic monuments are next followed by the changing the name to Tillman Hall. They need to eliminate all black colleges, black history month and MLK day and his statue. While we are cleaning house lets change the name of the state I feel its offensive also. Any state,county,highway or direction with the word (SOUTH) needs to be changed.
My favorite was the amendment to fly the white flag of surrender instead. He stated it would show that our elected politicians have surrendered in the face of political correctness. He's right but that's legislative gold right there. That's on par with Mark Sanford bringing pigs to the statehouse to protest the pork spending and their taking a dump on the capitol floor.
It's all showmanship. Politicians are the slimiest creatures in God's creation.
It's all showmanship. Politicians are the slimiest creatures in God's creation.
No, no one cares if you are offended if you are white, male, Southern, gun owning, and Christian. I am in the class that, anyone and everyone can hate and offend me, and no one could care less.
Of course, the only reason anyone would be bothered by the flag is brainwashing or ignorance of the facts.
Lots of that today.
Interesting you think the US more of a democracy now. The US hasn't been a democracy in a long time, look at the electoral college as one proof because in a true democracy the voters would decide who was POTUS and would've decided, right or wrong, whether the flag should've stayed or not..
Yeah, this is what I was thinking. We're definitely not a democracy.
technically the State of South Carolina never surrendered nor formally rejoined the Union. My Grandfather always said "It was the yankee Lee that surrendered at Appomattox."
This is a good thing IMO. Im still not sure what my opinion is on Monuments, road names, and Tillman Hall. Although, I will say that if a Monument was erected or building named during the 60's (during the Civil Rights movement), ehhhhhhhhh I can see why those should be changed.
yes, white southern males have a tough road to hoe
INteresting topic came up at Happy Hour a few years ago. The purpose of the House and Senate were to have state reps in DC to speak for the individual states. THis made sense in 1776, because it took weeks to travel from the original 13 colonies to the Capital, but does it make sense now? With current technology is Congress obsolete? (even if they were actually doing their jobs)
What are these "facts"?
I'm offended by the fact that we feel the need to fly the flag. It's embarrassing IMO. I'm a white, male, Southern, gun-owning Christian who had family fight in that war (obviously) and feel absolutely zero need to fly it. Put it in a museum? Sure. Teach the history of what it stands/stood for? Sure. Fly it at the capital? Why?
Not to mention republics are set up to protect minorities and minorities today are better off now than any point in the past.
Not sure I'm offended per se, but I agree in general. It looks redneck as hell to drive by the capitol and see the flag in the forefront of our state house. I'm also white, male, southern, born in SC, own guns, Christian, etc. No need to fly it.
The rest of the country has had a nice laugh at our expense over this issue. It is embarrassing.
If the people from Laurens put that idiot back in office again they should be kicked out of the state. I have a feeling, though, that 90% of the voters in Laurens have no clue what went on and the idiot will be re-elected next go 'round.
I don't care either way. I'm just glad this is the biggest issue SC has at it's feet. Now that this is settled ,we have no worries.
i'd say we are definitely more democratic because i feel politicians are much more susceptible now to public opinion views than previously. the power yielded by news organizations, in my opinion often acting without responsibility for good policy or good faith of contextual accuracy (on both sides of the aisle) has increased the susceptibility of politicians to be unseated for leading, legislating, and governing. The 24 hour, infinite number of sources news cycle has made it more likely for representatives to be unseated on single issues, therefore forcing more democratic viewpoints to be held.
In a true democracy the electorate would vote for everything, not just President.
In a true republic the way our country was originally setup, popularly elected representatives would elect top positions, with the idea that those representatives would have a more informed opinion of the qualifications and issues.
The way I see it Democracy = increased access of the uninformed to policy decisions. And that is exactly where I see us now. Increasing Democracy has polarized both parties, led to a ridiculous gridlock in congress, and has our entitlement systems drawing us infinitely into debt. In a republic, I'd expect leaders to actually show some interest in solving these problems. In a democracy Donald Trump is surging to the top of the Republican field and Hillary Clinton is cruising through the nomination without having a platform and without answering press questions.
Yes, I think our government and political process is more geared toward the everyday, uninformed fool who wants the impossible combination of more government services, a balanced budget, and lower taxes. that's why i think we are more a democracy now than ever before. There are intelligent and informed voters on both sides of the issues, but the swing votes that are deciding the elections are the fools. And that's democracy.
I am white.
I am a male.
I am southern.
I own guns.
I am a Christian.
I'll add a couple of more for you... I grew up poor. I came from a small town in a rural county in this state. Neither of my parents nor any of my grandparents had college degrees.
I do not feel hated. I do not feel discriminated against. I went to Clemson. I graduated and have a great career and am paid well. I am living the American dream. I have had no problem being successful in life. I am here to tell you that if you do not have any of those things associated with the American dream, it isn't because of any of those things you listed. You need to do some more soul searching and maybe you will find the real reason you are singled out and feel like you have less opportunity. But I am living proof it has nothing to do with anything you listed.
It is time for that flag to come down from flying on State House grounds. I respect what that flag means to you and many others. That doesn't have to change. But I also respect what that flag means to those who disagree with you and understand why that is. It's time to move on. Quit making this into a referendum on you and your ability to succeed in life because you are a white, southern, gun owning, Christian male, because it is not. Saying such things make you sound ignorant.
Signed,
A white, southern, gun owning, Christian, male
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You mean one less worry because the Sharptons, Jacksons, Michael Moores and the rest of the antagonists don't get paid by leaving after one "situation" has been resolved.
BTW, I know you were probably joking, but just in case I thought I would remind the others.
1clem ....you ever been to Laurens? You know home to the redneck shop/ white supremacy store..
Actually, we were never a democracy.
Democracies are mobocracies- rule by mob majority.
Originally we were a Constitutional Republic, but now, unfortunately, we are only a republic, and this government will fail because of that fact.
We have the tyrant Lincoln to thank for that.
Hey Clemzonfan,
Not sure how you got the idea I'm not successful. On the contrary, I am quite successful.
Wrong. Again.
Your rant, making assumptions of things not in evidence, is just another case of you making a conclusion based on limited or no evidence.
Just like the flag.
A true democracy where you vote on everything would be terrible.
1) It is impractical. Who wants to vote on 99.99% of the bills that happen daily.
2) People will vote for costly impractical ideas because it isn't their money.
California is a great example of #2. You can put Prop votes on the ballot rather easily and then the public votes for them. When I was there one was like Build High Speed Rail From San Fran to LA. People are like yeah I want rail that would be awesome, but don't realize where they $80 Billion is going to come from and vote YES. It was part of the reason Cali had such a huge budget deficit. People were always voting for Prop Votes like you can't raise Property Tax and Billions for Publicly Funded Stem Cell Research, etc.
Nationally votes would be like raise SSN payout and lower the age. We would be broke in 2 seconds.
Not that corrupt politicians are much better, but they are better.
1) It is impractical. Who wants to vote on 99.99% of the bills that happen daily.
2) People will vote for costly impractical ideas because it isn't their money.
California is a great example of #2. You can put Prop votes on the ballot rather easily and then the public votes for them. When I was there one was like Build High Speed Rail From San Fran to LA. People are like yeah I want rail that would be awesome, but don't realize where they $80 Billion is going to come from and vote YES. It was part of the reason Cali had such a huge budget deficit. People were always voting for Prop Votes like you can't raise Property Tax and Billions for Publicly Funded Stem Cell Research, etc.
Nationally votes would be like raise SSN payout and lower the age. We would be broke in 2 seconds.
Not that corrupt politicians are much better, but they are better.
Fixed it for you Scotchtiger. Sure hope it stops here now. Put the darn flag in a museum somewhere and move on, hopefully all the attention groups will as well. Start trying to change or remove all monuments, statue's,etc.. will result in going down a slippery slope. You know the ole cliche' "People who are trying to change history will be the ones destined to repeat it"... comes to mind.
I don't think it's so much the flag coming down guys...it's what happens next? Where does it end? If you really think this will end here then you're just fooling yourself...activists are never satisfied. Watch & see.
I understand this, but it's also a separate issue.
You can't keep from doing what you think is right/needed because of hypotheticals.
You need to go back and read my post. I never said you weren't successful. I'm glad you are. Your post implied that your demographic group, to which I also belong, was one of the most hated and discruminated against. I simply said "IF" you feel that the attributes you described were a barrier in any way to the American dream for you personally that you needed to go back and do some soul searching because those things were not barriers for me based on my own personal experience. I am glad to learn that those things have not really been a barrier for you either and we agree that what you said is not based on fact, but is instead merely grandstanding.
Not trying to insult you or pick a fight. I wish you continued success in life.
Within a year watch for a push to rename Calhoun street in CHS to Clementa Pickney Ave.
U.S. house already approved a bill prohibiting the placement of Confederate flags on the graves of soldiers at Vicksburg Memorial
Cemetary.
And we already know the flags have been removed from Ft Sumter.
So interesting question now .....I guess the NCAA ban on collegiate events along with the NAACP boycott should immediately be lifted, no?
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