Afghanistan crisis

[GoodWord28]

Saw a picture of a good amount of Afghan girls walking to school today. There is nothing anyone can do. We can lead a horse to water, etc.


300,000 men in the Afghani National Army knew this would be the outcome and laid down their weapons and surrendered to the Taliban with nearly zero resistance

Maybe we should’ve armed and trained the Afghani women.

 

[Esso Porch]

The concerning thing to me is just how wrong Biden, Blinken and Milley were with their statements over the past few months. Hopeful statements saying the Taliban would not be able to take Afghanistan, worst case scenario of it taking them 90 days to mount a resistance and thoughts that they wouldn’t get Kabul. It took 72 hours. Doesn’t exactly give one a lot of faith regarding their knowledge of other international developments

 

[Jam48Allay]

The concerning thing to me is just how wrong Biden, Blinken and Milley were with their statements over the past few months. Hopeful statements saying the Taliban would not be able to take Afghanistan, worst case scenario of it taking them 90 days to mount a resistance and thoughts that they wouldn’t get Kabul. It took 72 hours. Doesn’t exactly give one a lot of faith regarding their knowledge of other international developments

Why would it shock you that they were wrong? They've spent the last 7 months checking troops FBs and Instagrams 2 see if they voted for Donald Trump, testifying in front of Congress about their concern about white rage and worrying about forcing troops 2 take the jab..

 

[clemsonu0219]

1) This absolutely sucks, on so many levels, but obviously the Afghani’s are getting the worst of it rn
2) It absolutely breaks my heart that so many of our Warriors spent, literally, decades there providing FID and it all seems to be gone
3) We should’ve never been in A for 20 years. We lost way too many good men (and women) for this cause, IMO

4) While Trump couldn’t complete sentences without insulting someone (which is a huge problem), Biden just can’t complete sentences period. That doesn’t give me any confidence in leadership.

 

[Dmk]

Why would it shock you that they were wrong? They've spent the last 7 months checking troops FBs and Instagrams 2 see if they voted for Donald Trump, testifying in front of Congress about their concern about white rage and worrying about forcing troops 2 take the jab..

This ^^^

 

[lvilletiger]

From April 2021:

Though the former President offered his support of President Joe Biden's plans to bring home American troops, he urged his successor to draw an end to America's longest war well before the September 11 deadline that Biden set last week. Trump said that while leaving Afghanistan is "a wonderful and positive thing to do," he had set a May 1 withdrawal deadline and added that "we should keep as close to that schedule as possible."

In many ways I agree with both Trump and Biden. Had we stayed 10 more years would it have taken 5 days instead of 3?

 

[GoodWord28]

From April 2021:

Though the former President offered his support of President Joe Biden's plans to bring home American troops, he urged his successor to draw an end to America's longest war well before the September 11 deadline that Biden set last week. Trump said that while leaving Afghanistan is "a wonderful and positive thing to do," he had set a May 1 withdrawal deadline and added that "we should keep as close to that schedule as possible."

In many ways I agree with both Trump and Biden. Had we stayed 10 more years would it have taken 5 days instead of 3?

Exactly. We taught them how to fight and they just don’t want to do it. 300k (Afghan)men vs 75K men (taliban) and their fate is ultimately in their own hands.

Afghanistan shouldn’t really be a country. People there are loyal to their tribes and not the country it’s extremely complex. There isn’t a sustainable solution there and it was time to quit pretending like there is and for us to come home.

 

[whitesixmile]

The concerning thing to me is just how wrong Biden, Blinken and Milley were with their statements over the past few months. Hopeful statements saying the Taliban would not be able to take Afghanistan, worst case scenario of it taking them 90 days to mount a resistance and thoughts that they wouldn’t get Kabul. It took 72 hours. Doesn’t exactly give one a lot of faith regarding their knowledge of other international developments

Not Biden’s fault. No matter who the president was it would be the same outcome. We gave them 30 freaking years and they still couldn’t stand up.

 

[firegiver]

You can't force people to liberate themselves. When you said that in 2003 it got you labeled as unpatriotic and you were told you didn't support the troops.

The only argument I ever heard that made sense was we had to fight them over there instead of on our own land. However, blowing up a country tends to build rebellion not squash it.

 

[nsp1996]

Not Biden’s fault. No matter who the president was it would be the same outcome. We gave them 30 freaking years and they still couldn’t stand up.

I undersand where you are coming from and agree with the sentiment, but I have to disagree. Biden and his DoD needs to own this. The SecDef, CJCS, and Centcom Commander should tender letters of resignation today (not that they wouldbe accepted). On second thought, after Milleys recent testimony to the Senate and now this, he should probably commit seppuku.

The Admin got handed a shitty hand in Afghanistan, as did Trump. We have been screwing the Afghan pooch for more than 15 years IMHO. No question about it. And I think that we needed to largely pull out at some point. Maybe even before now.

However, just like we didn't have to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in Iraq (leading to ISIS), this didn't have to go down like it just did.

Done during the winter (not in the middle of traditional fighting season), in a more measured way, with special operations assets and US Airpower and other support to help smooth the transition and prevent panic, I believe that the Afgan Army could have at least held onto the major population centers for a while while leaving the tribal areas to the Taliban to grow opium, screw goats, beat women and whatever else they wanted to do. Would long term would success be guaranteed? No. However there would have been a chance.

 

[PAWrocka]

Saw a picture of a good amount of Afghan girls walking to school today. There is nothing anyone can do. We can lead a horse to water, etc.


300,000 men in the Afghani National Army knew this would be the outcome and laid down their weapons and surrendered to the Taliban with nearly zero resistance

Maybe we should’ve armed and trained the Afghani women.

Not the worst idea ..... Its heartbreaking

 

[Jmoney843]

No way in hell would Trump and Pompeo let this happen, nor would the Taliban have done this while those two were still in office. Trump would have publicly stated a redline, and if the Taliban crossed it, that admin would have started bombing the crap out of them.

Trump and Biden did the right thing withdrawing troops, I just believe that the Trump admin would have executed this troop withdraw better and backed it with a show of force if needed.

This has to be one of the biggest embarrassments in American history, and now Biden has the failure of Iraq and Afghanistan on his hands.

 

[PAWrocka]

No way in hell would Trump and Pompeo let this happen, nor would the Taliban have done this while those two were still in office. Trump would have publicly stated a redline, and if the Taliban crossed it, that admin would have started bombing the crap out of them.

Trump and Biden did the right thing withdrawing troops, I just believe that the Trump admin would have executed this troop withdraw better and backed it with a show of force if needed.

This has to be one of the biggest embarrassments in American history, and now Biden has the failure of Iraq and Afghanistan on his hands.

From what I read, the strategy was that we would pull our troops out province by province. Ensuring each province was secure before moving to the next one. Biden changed the strat to pull out all at once. It was believed that the Taliban would eventually take the country back, but it was believed that the Taliban wouldve waited until US troops had withdrawn completely before they started their advance, especially on Kabul. As we and the world can see that didnt happen ....

we are being chased out of Afghanistan ... so embarrassing.

This September 11th, the Taliban will control more territory than they did September 11th 2001.

 

[Dmk]

 

[PawsFan_]

Maybe we should’ve armed and trained the Afghani women.

We did. Some units have 2/3 women in them.

 

[PawsFan_]

This has to be one of the biggest embarrassments in American history, and now Biden has the failure of Iraq and Afghanistan on his hands.

How is Iraq and embarrassment?

 

[PAWrocka]

some little Administration twat was on the Today Show this morning. Savannah, to her credit, asked him the tough question "Biden said we'd never see American evacuated by Helicopter in Afghanistan, how do you explain what happened?" .... this little twat's response was "Well helicopter transport is the standard mode of transportation between the embassy and the airport" .

 

[PawsFan_]

From what I read, the strategy was that we would pull our troops out province by province. Ensuring each province was secure before moving to the next one. Biden changed the strat to pull out all at once. It was believed that the Taliban would eventually take the country back, but it was believed that the Taliban wouldve waited until US troops had withdrawn completely before they started their advance, especially on Kabul. As we and the world can see that didnt happen ....

we are being chased out of Afghanistan ... so embarrassing.

This September 11th, the Taliban will control more territory than they did September 11th 2001.

Sorry but not true.

We haven't had troops out and about in a long time. The ANDF were securing the provincial capitals; and have been for a long time. But these are long lines of communication. And as big as a 300,000 man force sounds, the ANDF doesn't have the logistics to support forces in far away provinces. It's airpower isn't as flexible or skilled as ours is either.

We've slowly been moving forces out of Afghanistan for a long time. The challenge is you have a min force you need to provide force protection / conduct your mission at a base. At some point, you have to "rip off the bandaid" off and all your people have to leave the base. That's why you've seen the news of bases closing quickly recently. US airpower is no longer based in Afghanistan. It's available, but.....I'll shut up there.

 

[GoodWord28]

Sorry but not true.

We haven't had troops out and about in a long time. The ANDF were securing the provincial capitals; and have been for a long time. But these are long lines of communication. And as big as a 300,000 man force sounds, the ANDF doesn't have the logistics to support forces in far away provinces. It's airpower isn't as flexible or skilled as ours is either.

We've slowly been moving forces out of Afghanistan for a long time. The challenge is you have a min force you need to provide force protection / conduct your mission at a base. At some point, you have to "rip the bandaid" off and all your people have to leave the base. That's why you've seen the news of bases closing quickly recently. US airpower is no longer based in Afghanistan. It's available, but.....I'll shut up there.

I just don’t see any winning exit strategy available. I hate it for the Afghan people.
We taught them how to fight. Gave them weapons. And, they don’t fight back when the time came. What else oils we have done?

Maybe break Afghanistan into 25 smaller countries? Focus on putting the people willing to protect Afghanistan all in Kabul and then treating it like it’s own country?
Reading about VOLUNTEERS there to help people that are fleeing their village refuse to talk to women bc they aren’t with their husbands makes me believe that there are people okay with sharia law that aren’t even Taliban.

Extremely complex.

 

[PawsFan_]

I just don’t see any winning exit strategy available. I hate it for the Afghan people.
We taught them how to fight. Gave them weapons. And, they don’t fight back when the time came. What else oils we have done?

Maybe break Afghanistan into 25 smaller countries? Focus on putting the people willing to protect Afghanistan all in Kabul and then treating it like it’s own country?
Reading about VOLUNTEERS there to help people that are fleeing their village refuse to talk to women bc they aren’t with their husbands makes me believe that there are people okay with sharia law that aren’t even Taliban.

Extremely complex.

I agree.

A man should never talk to a woman directly in the Muslim world. You talk to the husband. He'll give you her opinion...not that her opinion matters. You shouldn't ask about a man's family unless you are good friends with him. If you were lost on the street, you ask a man for directions. Never a woman. Exception being if you popped into a hotel to ask and the worker behind the desk was a woman.

The opposite is true for women. They shouldn't engage a strange man.

If you are eating with a woman at a restaurant, the waiter will expect you to order for her. I have seen them not take the woman's order.

Now....some countries are more understanding then others. However as a rule of thumb, the above is good to remember.

 

[GoodWord28]

I agree.

A man should never talk to a woman directly in the Muslim world. You talk to the husband. He'll give you her opinion...not that her opinion matters. You shouldn't ask about a man's family unless you are good friends with him. If you were lost on the street, you ask a man for directions. Never a woman. Exception being if you popped into a hotel to ask and the worker behind the desk was a woman.

The opposite is true for women. They shouldn't engage a strange man.

If you are eating with a woman at a restaurant, the waiter will expect you to order for her. I have seen them not take the woman's order.

Now....some countries are more understanding then others. However as a rule of thumb, the above is good to remember.

I’m sorry, WHAT? Do you agree with this?!!

 

[jschneid30]

From what I read, the strategy was that we would pull our troops out province by province. Ensuring each province was secure before moving to the next one. Biden changed the strat to pull out all at once. It was believed that the Taliban would eventually take the country back, but it was believed that the Taliban wouldve waited until US troops had withdrawn completely before they started their advance, especially on Kabul. As we and the world can see that didnt happen ....

we are being chased out of Afghanistan ... so embarrassing.

This September 11th, the Taliban will control more territory than they did September 11th 2001.

We snuck out in the middle of the night

 

[jakefest]

We snuck out in the middle of the night

says it all

 

[hopefultiger13]

No way in hell would Trump and Pompeo let this happen, nor would the Taliban have done this while those two were still in office. Trump would have publicly stated a redline, and if the Taliban crossed it, that admin would have started bombing the crap out of them.

Trump and Biden did the right thing withdrawing troops, I just believe that the Trump admin would have executed this troop withdraw better and backed it with a show of force if needed.

This has to be one of the biggest embarrassments in American history, and now Biden has the failure of Iraq and Afghanistan on his hands.

The Kurds would disagree with you... Trump hung them out to dry for sure.

 

[PawsFan_]

I’m sorry, WHAT? Do you agree with this?!!

I agree with your first paragraph, yes.

 

[PawsFan_]

The Kurds would disagree with you... Trump hung them out to dry for sure.

Yet the Kurds are doing just fine.

 

[hopefultiger13]

Yet the Kurds are doing just fine.

Uh...no. The Turks are attacking them pretty regularly. It's just not on the news.

 

[PawsFan_]

Uh...no. The Turks are attacking them pretty regularly. It's just not on the news.

Sure they are. How is that different than the last 50 years?

Newsflash. The Kurds are attacking the Turk pretty regularly as well. Have for 50 years or more.