Boarder Wall and Immigrants

[Tkinard43]

With all the talk about the wall and immigrants I thought I would tell you a little story.

Jan 2 2000 I go to work and at the farm Herschel has brought in some Mexicans ( all illegal of course ).

One is 16 years old, cant speak English, hair 2x longer than Trevor and his tennis shoes were not laced up. Told him to lace up those shoes cause he was fixing to go through the gates of Hell.

Now I never picked up a shovel, wasnt my job, but this morning after I had pulled a yard to grade I was messing around with a shovel knocking down a couple of humps. This kid (Gerardo) takes shovel out of my hand. Told him then and there i was going to make something of him.

18 years later hes an American citizen ( that cost roughly 50k, he paid every dime of it). I made him hire my accountant and my lawyer. Today he has 2 crews and is grossing 450k a year in lawn service and he is one of the best at what he does here in Augusta.

Owns a 350k house, married with a beautiful 2yo boy.

Walked across that border in Arizona. Took him 5 days traveling at nite. Came here with nothing but clothes on his back. Saw his parents for 1st time in 17 years last year.

 

[WinstonW101]

Thanks sir Lancelot ..

 

[TuesdayJ]

who's herschel?

 

[Ron Munson]

ok.......

 

[Tkinard43]

who's herschel?

Guy I worked for. Died 2 years ago of back cancer. Ate him alive.

 

[tigers4381]

 

[huxley09]

 

[tigrbybirth]

I think we need border security, but we also need more immigrants. They have a passion and a drive that we seem to have lost. They start businesses, they work harder than seems reasonable. At least the Latin American immigrants that I've come across are incredibly family oriented. Their kids absolutely come first. This story doesn't surprise me one bit.

 

[pecans]

Incentives are different in 2019 than there were in 2000.

 

[clemcorey]

Its a tough call.I went on a mission trip to mexico in my twenties and seen first hand the conditions and obstacles they face. I have since learned spanish and am as sympathetic as one can be. I truly believe most are just looking for an opportunity. The problem is with every Gerardo there is also a "bad hombre". The cartels drugs and sex trafficking are not a myth and has to be stopped. I believe in the wall but i also think it should be easier for them to come through legal means. Coming illegally is most often the only option. If they are not well established, middle class or business owners, the mexican government will not issue them a visa. They realize without a reason to come back, its very unlikely they will.

 

[TMcGrady1]

With all the talk about the wall and immigrants I thought I would tell you a little story.

Jan 2 2000 I go to work and at the farm Herschel has brought in some Mexicans ( all illegal of course ).

One is 16 years old, cant speak English, hair 2x longer than Trevor and his tennis shoes were not laced up. Told him to lace up those shoes cause he was fixing to go through the gates of Hell.

Now I never picked up a shovel, wasnt my job, but this morning after I had pulled a yard to grade I was messing around with a shovel knocking down a couple of humps. This kid (Gerardo) takes shovel out of my hand. Told him then and there i was going to make something of him.

18 years later hes an American citizen ( that cost roughly 50k, he paid every dime of it). I made him hire my accountant and my lawyer. Today he has 2 crews and is grossing 450k a year in lawn service and he is one of the best at what he does here in Augusta.

Owns a 350k house, married with a beautiful 2yo boy.

Walked across that border in Arizona. Took him 5 days traveling at nite. Came here with nothing but clothes on his back. Saw his parents for 1st time in 17 years last year.

It's "Border" not "Boarder" bruh....

 

[andcam]

We would be crippled in this country in the areas of lawn care and roofing if we did not have this labor source. They are not taking jobs from middle class guys that work in a factory. Those jobs are being shipped overseas and a big reason is because we have the highest cost for health care in the world. Benes are eating employers alive! I think if we can get health care costs down it would really make us much more competitive in manufacturing.

 

[Earle36]

Its a tough call.I went on a mission trip to mexico in my twenties and seen first hand the conditions and obstacles they face. I have since learned spanish and am as sympathetic as one can be. I truly believe most are just looking for an opportunity. The problem is with every Gerardo there is also a "bad hombre". The cartels drugs and sex trafficking are not a myth and has to be stopped. I believe in the wall but i also think it should be easier for them to come through legal means. Coming illegally is most often the only option. If they are not well established, middle class or business owners, the mexican government will not issue them a visa. They realize without a reason to come back, its very unlikely they will.

Well said!

 

[yungan]

Take every illegal immigrant away from the workforce and construction would halt, food would halt (especially fresh food) including fish, chicken and beef, vegetables fruit....
Fast food help would disappear in certain areas of the country..
Competitor of mine in Detroit works Russian and Bosnian guys all of which are illegal (came through Canada) but we never hear of any illegals except for Hispanics..

 

[whitesixmile]

No reason for people to be here illegally. I’m all for imagrants coming over legally but there is no reason to be undocumented when the government knows everything about me and you but they get mad when we want them to have documentation to who they are.

 

[whitesixmile]

Take every illegal immigrant away from the workforce and construction would halt, food would halt (especially fresh food) including fish, chicken and beef, vegetables fruit....
Fast food help would disappear in certain areas of the country..
Competitor of mine in Detroit works Russian and Bosnian guys all of which are illegal (came through Canada) but we never hear of any illegals except for Hispanics..

Then we need to make it easier to be legal and put some of these lazy ass Americans that lay up and live off the government or their wives or disabilities.

 

[BHSRebels89]

With all the talk about the wall and immigrants I thought I would tell you a little story.

Jan 2 2000 I go to work and at the farm Herschel has brought in some Mexicans ( all illegal of course ).

One is 16 years old, cant speak English, hair 2x longer than Trevor and his tennis shoes were not laced up. Told him to lace up those shoes cause he was fixing to go through the gates of Hell.

Now I never picked up a shovel, wasnt my job, but this morning after I had pulled a yard to grade I was messing around with a shovel knocking down a couple of humps. This kid (Gerardo) takes shovel out of my hand. Told him then and there i was going to make something of him.

18 years later hes an American citizen ( that cost roughly 50k, he paid every dime of it). I made him hire my accountant and my lawyer. Today he has 2 crews and is grossing 450k a year in lawn service and he is one of the best at what he does here in Augusta.

Owns a 350k house, married with a beautiful 2yo boy.

Walked across that border in Arizona. Took him 5 days traveling at nite. Came here with nothing but clothes on his back. Saw his parents for 1st time in 17 years last year.

Great story and good for him. However, is this the same as our "what about this 2 star who is now an NFL All Pro"?

 

[jtjosey]

With all the talk about the wall and immigrants I thought I would tell you a little story.

Jan 2 2000 I go to work and at the farm Herschel has brought in some Mexicans ( all illegal of course ).

One is 16 years old, cant speak English, hair 2x longer than Trevor and his tennis shoes were not laced up. Told him to lace up those shoes cause he was fixing to go through the gates of Hell.

Now I never picked up a shovel, wasnt my job, but this morning after I had pulled a yard to grade I was messing around with a shovel knocking down a couple of humps. This kid (Gerardo) takes shovel out of my hand. Told him then and there i was going to make something of him.

18 years later hes an American citizen ( that cost roughly 50k, he paid every dime of it). I made him hire my accountant and my lawyer. Today he has 2 crews and is grossing 450k a year in lawn service and he is one of the best at what he does here in Augusta.

Owns a 350k house, married with a beautiful 2yo boy.

Walked across that border in Arizona. Took him 5 days traveling at nite. Came here with nothing but clothes on his back. Saw his parents for 1st time in 17 years last year.

Thanks for sharing. Ultimately, what we need is comprehensive immigration reform, not a wall. I am for the strict enforcement of our immigration laws and I'm not comfortable with people simply walking across the border as I feel that is a national security problem. What happens if terrorists smuggle highly destructive material across the border which is used in an attack against our country?

With that said, I have absolutely zero against Latin Americans wanting to legally immigrate to this country to create a better life for themselves. We need those dipshits in Washington to pass comprehensive immigration reform that makes it easier for Latin Americans specifically to get into this country. Who is going to pay for my social security otherwise?

I believe we should also take a hard look at limiting Chinese immigration specifically. It's not that I don't like Chinese people, but the Chinese government is actively involved in trying to use its citizens to steal both government as well as corporate secrets from our country. We need to find ways to stymie those efforts by the Chinese government and I believe that letting fewer Chinese people into our country is a way to do that.

I am hopeful that the trade war that we are currently in teaches American companies that shipping manufacturing jobs to China is a terrible idea. While these companies may benefit in the short run with cheap labor, the Chinese government cannot be trusted to enforce the rule of law in an even handed way. While I didn't vote for our current president, I thank God he has had the intestinal fortitude to try and put an end to the Chinese government's cheating ways.

 

[tgailes]

Still Illegal !!! Still wrong way to go about things! Change the laws....Trump as much as he is hated, offered to legalize all DACA, and indicated he was willing to make work Visas more accommodating 18 months ago. Immigrants are part of all our history unless you are Native American. So immigration is good, but do it legally. Don't overcrowd our schools in certain areas, don't illegally be here and utilize our welfare system for your illnesses and childbirth, don't abuse our generosity. Tell your democratic and republican representatives to come to an all encompassing solution and quit using this as a political tool for your party. We need a border, just like we use fences to keep people out of our yards. We have a door at the front of our house and if we feel safe, we will let you in....

 

[Tiger at State]

Kool Aid Man is vehemently anti-wall. TIFWIW.

https://babylonbee.com/news/anti-wall-extremist-the-kool-aid-man-leads-campaign-against-trump

 

[6thDanTKD]

We need a wall. Then enforce our own laws or freaking remove them from the books (Either way), just not enforcing laws that some political groups don’t like is stupid and eventually leads to anarchy.

Pass comprehensive immigration reform. We really need to know who’s coming in. Would you just let anyone come into your home, or would you like to know a little more about them? That’s “NOT” being mean, it’s being wise.

None of this will happen of course because politics are more important than the future of this nation. Some don’t want others to get a political win. They don’t want to fix the problem because it would make one certain person look good, and we just can’t have that.

 

[Tigerfaith]

With all the talk about the wall and immigrants I thought I would tell you a little story.

Jan 2 2000 I go to work and at the farm Herschel has brought in some Mexicans ( all illegal of course ).

One is 16 years old, cant speak English, hair 2x longer than Trevor and his tennis shoes were not laced up. Told him to lace up those shoes cause he was fixing to go through the gates of Hell.

Now I never picked up a shovel, wasnt my job, but this morning after I had pulled a yard to grade I was messing around with a shovel knocking down a couple of humps. This kid (Gerardo) takes shovel out of my hand. Told him then and there i was going to make something of him.

18 years later hes an American citizen ( that cost roughly 50k, he paid every dime of it). I made him hire my accountant and my lawyer. Today he has 2 crews and is grossing 450k a year in lawn service and he is one of the best at what he does here in Augusta.

Owns a 350k house, married with a beautiful 2yo boy.

Walked across that border in Arizona. Took him 5 days traveling at nite. Came here with nothing but clothes on his back. Saw his parents for 1st time in 17 years last year.

And....

 

[Toasted712]

Its a tough call.I went on a mission trip to mexico in my twenties and seen first hand the conditions and obstacles they face. I have since learned spanish and am as sympathetic as one can be. I truly believe most are just looking for an opportunity. The problem is with every Gerardo there is also a "bad hombre". The cartels drugs and sex trafficking are not a myth and has to be stopped. I believe in the wall but i also think it should be easier for them to come through legal means. Coming illegally is most often the only option. If they are not well established, middle class or business owners, the mexican government will not issue them a visa. They realize without a reason to come back, its very unlikely they will.

Biggest problem is the cartels are digging tunnels. No wall is stopping them tunneling.

The concept of the wall is good but it would just be a large waste of money.

I do think making it easier to immigrate legally would help the problem a lot. I had an ex-coworker who was from Cameroon and she said she was thankful her family was well off or she would never be able to stay in the states to work. She also said being here legally was a pain in the ass and understood why so many would do it. The threat of being shipped back to Cameroon (not as big a deal to Central Americans) and having the fiscal means was the only reason she wouldn't consider being illegal.

 

[Doppler Effect]

If we control the illegal immigration then we can increase legal immigration. That way the legal immigrants can get the protections they need to avoid being used/abused and the US can make sure the ones selected for entry aren't the bad ones.

 

[nytigerfan]

We need a wall. Then enforce our own laws or freaking remove them from the books (Either way), just not enforcing laws that some political groups don’t like is stupid and eventually leads to anarchy.

Pass comprehensive immigration reform. We really need to know who’s coming in. Would you just let anyone come into your home, or would you like to know a little more about them? That’s “NOT” being mean, it’s being wise.

None of this will happen of course because politics are more important than the future of this nation. Some don’t want others to get a political win. They don’t want to fix the problem because it would make one certain person look good, and we just can’t have that.

I disagree. A bipartisan budget was passed that did not include a wall. Trump wants the wall so he can keep a campaign promise (even though he said Mexico would pay for it). Most republicans agree that a wall is stupid and will be ineffective.

You can still be for immigration reform and tougher immigration and be opposed to the wall. The wall would be a colossal waste of time and money.

 

[tigfan92]

With all the talk about the wall and immigrants I thought I would tell you a little story.

Jan 2 2000 I go to work and at the farm Herschel has brought in some Mexicans ( all illegal of course ).

One is 16 years old, cant speak English, hair 2x longer than Trevor and his tennis shoes were not laced up. Told him to lace up those shoes cause he was fixing to go through the gates of Hell.

Now I never picked up a shovel, wasnt my job, but this morning after I had pulled a yard to grade I was messing around with a shovel knocking down a couple of humps. This kid (Gerardo) takes shovel out of my hand. Told him then and there i was going to make something of him.

18 years later hes an American citizen ( that cost roughly 50k, he paid every dime of it). I made him hire my accountant and my lawyer. Today he has 2 crews and is grossing 450k a year in lawn service and he is one of the best at what he does here in Augusta.

Owns a 350k house, married with a beautiful 2yo boy.

Walked across that border in Arizona. Took him 5 days traveling at nite. Came here with nothing but clothes on his back. Saw his parents for 1st time in 17 years last year.

There's a legal way for them to come if they are looking for a better life. Maybe that process needs some fine tuning, but there is no argument against a border wall that makes sense at all if politics are removed from it. None. With the amount of money our government blows on BS, the money for a wall is a drop in the bucket. I get the disdain for Trump even though I support him, but locking the government down to prevent him from getting a political victory is as childish and petty as anything Trump has done since he's been in office.

 

[gogetem]

I disagree. A bipartisan budget was passed that did not include a wall. Trump wants the wall so he can keep a campaign promise (even though he said Mexico would pay for it). Most republicans agree that a wall is stupid and will be ineffective.

You can still be for immigration reform and tougher immigration and be opposed to the wall. The wall would be a colossal waste of time and money.

A solid continuous wall from the Gulf of Mexico to the Pacific is probably not the solution, nor do I think it’s what is desired.

My understanding though, is that there are significant portions of the border where there is nothing, no wall, no natural barrier like a river or cliff, just open desert and ranch land. I think that’s where and what they’re talking about.

 

[tigrbybirth]

Incentives are different in 2019 than there were in 2000.

How so? The labor shortage is greater here, which helps. Our welfare system had just been reformed in 2000, so that's fairly similar. Our economy hit a major bump in 2001, so that made things worse for him. He also had to grow his business through the Bush great recession, so that made things worse. The recovery started mid-way through the Obama administration, so that's helped. It's hard to say whether that recovery is going to continue, but I'm betting yes, at least for a while.

Trump's actual policies are starting to take effect. Job growth is still good, but the tax cut may have over stimulated the economy, which means the fed will have to rein it in or risk inflation. Concerns over tariffs may ironically help in that regard in that if the recovery slows, the interest rates may move back to normal more slowly.

 

[Cabotiger]

As a 18yr resident of Mexico I can tell you from experience that if the US would adopt the same immigration laws as Mexico, you wouldn't have the illegal problem. For a country that is so far behind technically and fiscally, they sure know who is the country illegally vs legally, of course they have no problem raiding businesses that employ foreigners to make sure they have working papers at least once a month.
Even the federal police that stop gringos ask for the FM3,FM2 or Inmigrado card during a routine traffic stop, trust me they did it to me until my wife got on the phone and laid into the officer because he wanted $200 to let me go.
Also, as a business owner you're not allowed to employ anyone but Mexicans and are not allowed to work in your own business as the owner. I've seen foreign owners get fined because they were sweeping a floor.

 

[steele-tiger]

Biggest problem is the cartels are digging tunnels. No wall is stopping them tunneling.

The concept of the wall is good but it would just be a large waste of money.

The El Chapo Trial is going on and the testified that none of the drugs that come into the US go through unwalled sections of the border. They use tunnels, but the vast majority is just smuggled in through cars and trucks going through legal ports of entry. All of this is backed-up by DEA studies on the topic.

A lot cross the border illegally in unwalled sections, but illegal crossing through all borders (Canadian/Mexico) through walled and unwalled sections isn't even close to half of the the current illegal entries into the US as VISA overstays well outnumber them. Not to mention illegal immigration is down significantly over the last 10-15 years. A wall in and of itself in the desert will stop bears, but is nothing more than an impediment for humans.

The reason their isn't a wall already is that it isn't an effective barrier and/or an effective use of funds. People from every party have said this constantly for years for example:

"Republican Texas Rep. Michael McCaul, chairman of the House Committee on Homeland Security, said in a January 2015 statement to right-leaning publication Daily Caller (founded by Fox News commentator Tucker Carlson and former Dick Cheney advisor Neil Patel) that "In our conversations with outside groups, experts and stakeholders, we learned that it would be an inefficient use of taxpayer money to complete the fence. … We are using that money to utilize other technology to create a secure border."

In 2015 Republicans in Congress had funds to do new fencing on the border and didn't even complete it according to McCaul because they didn't think it would be an effective use of resources.

 

[6thDanTKD]

I disagree. A bipartisan budget was passed that did not include a wall. Trump wants the wall so he can keep a campaign promise (even though he said Mexico would pay for it). Most republicans agree that a wall is stupid and will be ineffective.

You can still be for immigration reform and tougher immigration and be opposed to the wall. The wall would be a colossal waste of time and money.

The wall is not a stupid idea, ask Israel about its effectiveness. The talking point is illogical, of course a wall would work.

 

[WestZoneClub08]

If life is so tough down there, why all the people having 3, 4, 5 kids that they cant afford to take care of?

 

[Cabotiger]

If life is so tough down there, why all the people having 3, 4, 5 kids that they cant afford to take care of?

Catholic society

 

[tigrbybirth]

There's a legal way for them to come if they are looking for a better life. Maybe that process needs some fine tuning, but there is no argument against a border wall that makes sense at all if politics are removed from it. None. With the amount of money our government blows on BS, the money for a wall is a drop in the bucket. I get the disdain for Trump even though I support him, but locking the government down to prevent him from getting a political victory is as childish and petty as anything Trump has done since he's been in office.

I agree that the current dispute over the wall is pretty petty on both sides. Personally, I think that a comprehensive approach that includes some new barriers, some new or enhanced technologies, and money for people including judges, housing facilities for refugees, etc. makes the most sense, but that's not going to happen. At this point, it would be really tough for either party to back down. Perhaps cooler heads will prevail, but it's not looking likely.

The philosophical point that makes me think that the dems are "slightly" more "in the right" is the constitutional powers given each branch. The legislative branch was given the power of the purse strings. They get to say what we spend money on and what we don't. That's what the founding fathers designed and it's worked well for a couple centuries now. I believe that if two groups cannot agree, that doing nothing is the preferable thing.

 

[tigrbybirth]

Catholic society

Birth control is a sin, didn't you know.

 

[stigers91]

We are a society of laws. Obviously we don't agree or abide by all the laws of our society. If we break the law we know there will be consequences if caught. Immigration is no different. There must be consequences for breaking the law.

The wall will not stop illegal immigration, but anything that will help make our borders more secure I am for personally. And you cannot make an argument to me that the wall have zero impact on people crossing our border with Mexico. There can be debate on how much of a difference, but until it is actually completed it is to difficult to quantify.

 

[Rychek4]

We need a wall. Then enforce our own laws or freaking remove them from the books (Either way), just not enforcing laws that some political groups don’t like is stupid and eventually leads to anarchy.

Pass comprehensive immigration reform. We really need to know who’s coming in. Would you just let anyone come into your home, or would you like to know a little more about them? That’s “NOT” being mean, it’s being wise.

None of this will happen of course because politics are more important than the future of this nation. Some don’t want others to get a political win. They don’t want to fix the problem because it would make one certain person look good, and we just can’t have that.

Virtually all of the studies that have been done show that the wall would not be effective, but that it would be costly.

A new Dartmouth-Stanford study examining the economic impact of a border wall expansion between the U.S. and Mexico between 2007 to 2010 finds that the expansion minimally reduced unauthorized Mexican migration and was largely harmful to U.S. workers.

Once we account for the complex ways the border wall expansion impacted the economy, we found that almost all workers were made worse off. Even those who did benefit did so by a very small amount. This is all the more striking given the substantial construction costs

https://phys.org/news/2018-11-economic-impact-border-wall-high.html

 

[CU Alumnus]

With all the talk about the wall and immigrants I thought I would tell you a little story.

Jan 2 2000 I go to work and at the farm Herschel has brought in some Mexicans ( all illegal of course ).

One is 16 years old, cant speak English, hair 2x longer than Trevor and his tennis shoes were not laced up. Told him to lace up those shoes cause he was fixing to go through the gates of Hell.

Now I never picked up a shovel, wasnt my job, but this morning after I had pulled a yard to grade I was messing around with a shovel knocking down a couple of humps. This kid (Gerardo) takes shovel out of my hand. Told him then and there i was going to make something of him.

18 years later hes an American citizen ( that cost roughly 50k, he paid every dime of it). I made him hire my accountant and my lawyer. Today he has 2 crews and is grossing 450k a year in lawn service and he is one of the best at what he does here in Augusta.

Owns a 350k house, married with a beautiful 2yo boy.

Walked across that border in Arizona. Took him 5 days traveling at nite. Came here with nothing but clothes on his back. Saw his parents for 1st time in 17 years last year.

Great story.

The thing is though - It amazes me how few people understand that "secure the border" does NOT mean we don't let anyone in the damn country. It doesn't mean we hate Mexicans or Guatemalans or El Savaldorians. It means that we have something resembling control of who does enter the country. Like any sovereign nation should.

You can support legal immigration AND support border security. Whether a physical wall is better, or an array of sensors, or a minefield - there are people much more knowledgeable than I am on the subject that can answer that.

I'm happy for your friend as he seems like the type that should be allowed in. But he should have done it legally (I assume by your description that he did not). I also assume that he has since resolved all of that.

Then we need to make it easier to be legal and put some of these lazy ass Americans that lay up and live off the government or their wives or disabilities.

There are probably changes that could be made to the immigration system - including making it easier to get here legally. I've heard mention of guest worker programs. There is an answer.

 

[Rychek4]

And you cannot make an argument to me that the wall have zero impact on people crossing our border with Mexico.

No I cannot, I could make an argument that it would make a negative impact on them, on us, and on wildlife in the region, while also costing billions of tax dollars while we have soaring deficits.

 

[nytigerfan]

As a 18yr resident of Mexico I can tell you from experience that if the US would adopt the same immigration laws as Mexico, you wouldn't have the illegal problem. For a country that is so far behind technically and fiscally, they sure know who is the country illegally vs legally, of course they have no problem raiding businesses that employ foreigners to make sure they have working papers at least once a month.
Even the federal police that stop gringos ask for the FM3,FM2 or Inmigrado card during a routine traffic stop, trust me they did it to me until my wife got on the phone and laid into the officer because he wanted $200 to let me go.
Also, as a business owner you're not allowed to employ anyone but Mexicans and are not allowed to work in your own business as the owner. I've seen foreign owners get fined because they were sweeping a floor.

so putting your political views aside, in your honest opinion would you pend $20B on a wall or instead invest in tougher laws and enforcement of those laws?