Buy a Shotgun
- Thread starter CUTiger1977
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Only shotgun to buy is the Keltec KSG. Holds 7 shells in each tube for a total of 14+1 and is 26” end to end with a 18.5” barrel.
Bull pup design. Bad ass and will eliminate the threat.
Bull pup design. Bad ass and will eliminate the threat.
Yes sir. Up close the mini shells I think are good for ladies and would likely do the job. I’ve never been a fan of them but no question 41 would make a mess
From personal experience I can tell you mini shells will shred some pumpkins and glass bottles
Liberal and Conservative Hollywood entertainers are (mostly) honest. They are also (mostly) dumbasses. Look.. to make it in Hollywood, you mostly have to be attractive and have some skill in acting (although the latter may be debatable). There's no education component, and those that do have college degrees have them in freaking acting. The list of Hollywood A listers that don't have a degree in anything is pretty damn long. So they don't need them to tell me about greenhouse gasses or economics.
Just pulling someone out of the air... Tom Cruise barely graduated HS... So when he says things like depression and mental illness are not real and lectures me on the positives of Scientology. Well, let's just say I consider the source.
I don't know WHY on earth anyone would listen to any actor on anything even remotely important. It's like.. look man... loved your last movie... looking forward to the next one... But when it comes to serious issues.. best you just sit there, look pretty, and let the folks who live and work in the real world hand this.
You seen this thing?
Nah man - ladies need the Lady's Home Companion:
Gotta hand it to Cobray - they were never afraid to make something different......
Love it!!!! I’ve seen the shotgun but not the second one. That’s awesome! I know someone with the double barrel and it’s definitely bad ass, but I would take the Keltec every time for defense reasons. Just personal preference I suppose. My original thought when shooting the double barrel was muscle memory has to change and I could see things going wrong in a life or death scenario. The selector switch between the magazine tubes on the Keltec is good and bad. But once you play with it enough it’s unstoppable.
I’m still waiting for someone to make a bull pup design semi auto with the same features. Not sure if they can or will but would like to have one if they can make it reliable.
Have you seen the Keltec 308 bull pup? If I didn’t already have multiple AR-10s I would have bought one. That kind of firepower in that small of a package is just insane. If it ever took off it would likely destroy the SBR / Pistol Brace / bypass the tax stamp SBR market. Full power with the long barrel yet as short as a AR with a 10.5” barrel and stock fully collapsed. Reliability was the concern I think and the biggest mistake Keltec made was not making it SR-25 compatible. The magazines aren’t as easy and cheap to find.
There is another company (IMI?) that has a shotgun with a three-tube magazine that you rotate every five shots. Neat setup, but I'm not sure how practical it is. One of the videos I saw on it showed significant problems but I want to say they found out a lot of it was ammo-related.
The most interesting "combat shotgun" to me is the Saiga. Basically the unholy love child of a shotgun and an AK47. Box magazine fed.
I haven't seen that. One Kel-Tec that does interest me is the PCC they have out now. The one that will basically fold in half and takes pistol mags. As I recall it's pretty expensive but looks like a really neat idea.
I have a Saiga 12. It is incredible with either the 10 round magazine or the 25 round drum. I have both. The only downside is it’s not compact. If in a situation where that’s not an issue I’m gonna pick it over the Keltec.
The Sub 2000 from Keltec is a 9mm carbine with a 16” barrel that folds in half. That and the fact it uses Glock magazines make it perfect for a lot of things. I have one and carry it and my Glock 19 together and they both use the 32 round magazines made by Glock.
The Saiga was “banned” for import years back. It’s a shame but now they have AR type shotguns with box mags. I think someone has developed a knock off of the Saiga 12. The real thing is incredible. I can empty the 25 round drum in 5 seconds
Kinda funny but off topic a bit - was watching a video on how to spot a good AK47 vs a bad one. I'm not currently in the market (firearm toy box is kinda full) but I may get one at some point "just because."
I honestly don't know that I see why someone would go AK over AR at this point. The AK is a bit simpler BUT you cannot repair it without specialized tools - ie a rivet tool (there may be a way to do it with a hammer or something). For all the crap about the AR needing CNC machines, etc - you can replace just about anything on it with a punch. Plus AK quality is all over the place - not that there isn't variation in AR quality as well.
This is a good topic. Years ago I bought a Norinco AK-47 because from my research I found it was the best and by far the most expensive. I still have it and only one AK.
They are terribly inaccurate. Mounting scopes is pointless because they weren’t designed to use one. It can be done but it wouldn’t work well. Even a red dot mounted on an aftermarket hand guard sucks.
So that leaves the standard sights. The AK was designed to be a spray gun at full auto weapon. I wouldn’t even choose it for home defense despite the more powerful round. I’ve never even thought about hunting with it. If I’m not using 5.56 then I go to 308 (7.62x51mm).
The norinco was incredibly hard to find. I did the same thing, bought it just to have it. If I’m gonna throw it in the sand, mud, run it over with truck or whatever it will still go boom every time. That’s the only advantage it has over any AR. Do that to an AR and due to the tight tolerances it will fail.
I’ve thought about selling mine quite a few times. Like you my toy chest was full 5 years ago. I haven’t purchased a gun in 4 years.
When it comes to tools and parts the AR has the AK beat in every way.
I've seen "mud tests" where the AR actually BEAT the AK. But the key is that the AR's dust cover has to be closed when it's put in the mud. The conclusion was that the sealed system is better than the AK's philosophy of "let it eat the dirt."
But often these tests don't translate because they aren't rooted in reality. The gun is covered in mud but it's static. Will the AR's dust cover be closed every time? Maybe/Maybe not. Are there conditions where the AR will wind up getting dirt in it? Probably.
Plus it was on Youtube. So, yeah.....
You may like this video though - especially at 1:45ish:
Truthfully if I really wanted an AK style rifle for more than just a "just to have" I'd go with PSA's creation or a Galil.
Good points and thanks for the video. I would see a scenario where in a fire fight when the dust cover is open at all times being prone and having debris get into the BCG. When I use my suppressors with any of my ARs after a couple hundred rounds they begin to malfunction. They don’t like dust and debris but are still capable to a certain extreme. Definitely get the AK you’re referring to. In certain situations it would be very useful
IMI just released a bull pup 12 gauge with 15+1 capacity and in semi auto. Just what I was looking for. It’s only 2 inches longer end to end than the Keltec at 28”. By the time I realized they released it, they were sold out everywhere. I can’t find one. Talk about a machine. The Saiga 12 which I have is great but long. If that’s not an issue it’s still the ultimate choice due to unmatched reliability. However they banned import years back.
Conservative entertainers are few & far between, Brother
You guys are nuts man. You don't need all that shit. If you and your wife are interested in home defense, carry your ass down to the local gun shop and drop a couple of hundred bucks (MAX) on an old mossburg pump action shotgun. Used would be even less. You don't need to, but if the ladies find it too heavy or hard hitting, have the barrel cut down to 18 inches or so and add a pad to the stock. Number 4 duck shot in the magazine. Don't have one in the chamber. EVERYONE knows exactly what a pump shotgun sounds like and if a robber is sneaking around your house at night and hears that sound... well, it's pants shitting time.
Hey man, i'm not trying to pick a fight, but do no put out bad info on this topic. Cutting down the barrel does nothing for recoil and it will increase the noise and flash (it is what it is). However it will be more maneuverable. #4BUCKshot is a good choice for a Self-defense load. Not #4 bird (duck) shot. To make it more recoil-friendly you either need to move to "police" or "low-recoil" 00 or 000 loads (less, but bigger pellets than #1-4 buck, or drop down to a .20ga. PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE for Home Defense.
Lol. "Don't have one in the chamber" WTF?
If you want to protect your family, you don't depend on some sound to do it. Come to my house.. If you kill me in my sleep, then good on you. However if i have the drop on you and you are in my house then you will not see or hear anything before you die.
Any type of gun is hard to find anywhere right now. Lots of panic buying.
Cutting the barrel down would, if anything, increase recoil. Not reduce it.
I agree on empty chamber simply because it is a little safer. But that’s a personal choice.
Paul Harrell did a video on shotguns for home defense. I will link it later.
I disagree completely... While I admit that the flash will increase I guess, the recoil will be the same. What the cut down barrel will do is allow your shot to spread a bunch more in a smaller space. So what you are looking at with my number 4 duck shot at 10 to 15 feet or so is now a basketball sized pattern of soft shot. You just have to get close. Furthermore those rounds are deadly at close range, but will only sting you at 50 yards.. So you won't be killing your neighbors by accident or hitting your family through the walls. According to the FBI, you or a family member are several times more likely to die in your home from your own gun than be successful in killing an intruder. Not having one in the pipe is a layer of protection AND it might save you from killing someone in your home.
Reduces the weight forward = maybe not increased recois.. but increased muzzle jump. Significant? Depends on the shooter, his experience, recoil sensitivity etc. I've sent a lot of rounds downrange through all kinds of guns so i''m good. But I'm not everyone. Cutting down the barrel will not make that much of a difference at house distances in a pattern but it may/will make the gun more maneuverable, I will give you that.
Bird shot is not a reliable man stopper. Period. Sufficient penetration by a sufficient weight of shot is not guaranteed. Same thing with pistols. They are not reliable fight stoppers. Shotguns are, "better pistols". Rifle calibers are the only true fight stoppers.
There is no free lunch. If you want man-stopping penetration then you will have to recognize and take PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for where your shots go. Me? I knew where my kids rooms were and I practiced so that I knew my "range fans" and the directions that I could shoot and where I should confront intruders. Neighbors?... a secondary consideration. My accuracy will take care of them. But my choice of caliber etc. is totally governed by what is best to stop the threat to MY family.
I'm telling you, when you need to go for a gun in an emergency the less manipulation that you have to do with it, the better are your chances of survival. Cite the FBI all you want, but thats a fact.
You cut the barrel down to allow for maximum maneuverability of the weapon. For things like room clearing, we would switch to shorter barrel weapons vs longer barrel for outdoor missions. The shorter barrel reduces the odds of someone being able to grab it when you're coming around a corner which allows you to move more fluidly going room to room.
Despite 5 years of shooting just about every weapon the military has access to, I'm no weapons expert but we only used shotguns for ballistic breaches, never to clear rooms. I'm personally a fan of the SCAR-L/H with the H taking the .308/7.62 rounds if you're of the mindset that a .223/5.56 won't get it done. They come in variable barrel lengths also and of course the upside is the mag load/capacity. Availability depends on the state you reside in I reckon, we can't have them here or at least not the shorter barrel versions.
