Detroit No Go Zones and the War on Drugs

[92TigerME]

I didn't make it thru this documentary last night. Could someone tell me how it ends or when it will end?

If you look around the world, you see one thing in common with drug dealing. It's always in the ghetto districts. It seems to be an economic thing that gets rooted in these areas and stays that way. Who's doing it may impact what it looks like but in reality someone is going to be doing it. For sure, who's using it looks like everyone. I don't judge one more than the other. One thing is for sure, every drug that gets banned, the government creates a market for flipping a $20,000 kilo supplied by the Drug Lords into a half million dollars sold by the Drug Kingpin and all his underlings.

The economics of "getting fed"

 

[92TigerME]

One of my objectives for posting all these war on drugs threads is not just that I think drugs should be legalized but due to recent events, I want people to become more aware of what the war on drugs looks like for everyone involved including the police so the next time there is an officer involved shooting, you all don't run out there and start burning everything down and pretending like you care about racism. You voted for this. You can make solid points about George Floyd but what are you going to say about Keith Lamont Scott of Freddie Grey? Most of you probably don't even remember them.

I appreciate any feedback on this because not only is it important what I say but how I say it.

 

[clemsontiger02]

If you look around the world, you see one thing in common with drug dealing. It's always in the ghetto districts. It seems to be an economic thing that gets rooted in these areas and stays that way.

 

[92TigerME]

View embedded media

The video you posted is 100% correct. I could not agree more.

 

[PAWrocka]

I didn't make it thru this documentary last night. Could someone tell me how it ends or when it will end?

If you look around the world, you see one thing in common with drug dealing. It's always in the ghetto districts. It seems to be an economic thing that gets rooted in these areas and stays that way. Who's doing it may impact what it looks like but in reality someone is going to be doing it. For sure, who's using it looks like everyone. I don't judge one more than the other. One thing is for sure, every drug that gets banned, the government creates a market for flipping a $20,000 kilo supplied by the Drug Lords into a half million dollars sold by the Drug Kingpin and all his underlings.

The economics of "getting fed"

View embedded media

I had this long drawn out reply prepared, but .... it can be summed up by saying "Watch The Wire". Specifically season 1 and season 3. There is your answer on what is wrong .........

 

[92TigerME]

I had this long drawn out reply prepared, but .... it can be summed up by saying "Watch The Wire". Specifically season 1 and season 3. There is your answer on what is wrong .........

I'll check it out. FYI the movie

paid in full

is based on true story.

I watched some of it. Sounds realistic based on some of the interviews I've listened to.

 

[PAWrocka]

I'll check it out. FYI the movie

paid in full

is based on true story.

I watched some of it. Sounds realistic based on some of the interviews I've listened to.

The Wire is a little dated, but it is still applicable to todays world. Its not about Detroit, but about Baltimore City and its a pretty accurate depiction of the city. Aaaaaaaaaaand if you look quick you can catch a glimpse of my wife as she enters a office at the court house. It was filmed in Baltimore and my wife was clerking for one of the judges during filming


Long story short .... the only jobs available to youth in these inner cities are in the drug trade. Its sad ... they have no chance. Its easy to say "Make better decisions".... but what if there are no good decision to make?

Season 2 is kind of lame .... but still good. Its a great watch if youre looking for something to binge

 

[92TigerME]

The Wire is a little dated, but it is still applicable to todays world. Its not about Detroit, but about Baltimore City and its a pretty accurate depiction of the city. Aaaaaaaaaaand if you look quick you can catch a glimpse of my wife as she enters a office at the court house. It was filmed in Baltimore and my wife was clerking for one of the judges during filming


Long story short .... the only jobs available to youth in these inner cities are in the drug trade. Its sad ... they have no chance. Its easy to say "Make better decisions".... but what if there are no good decision to make?

Season 2 is kind of lame .... but still good. Its a great watch if youre looking for something to binge

Thanks. I'll see if i can get it on my smart tv in about an hour. I just watched some clips on you tube.

I agree it's easy to say make better decisions but that kind of money is hard to turn down. Someone will also be there to supply the drugs.

Was she wearing tan suit?

 

[92TigerME]

This one is pretty cool. I need to find the rest of this movie.

 

[iceheart08]

This one is pretty cool. I need to find the rest of this movie.

View embedded media

the rest of this "movie" is the show the wire.

 

[92TigerME]

the rest of this "movie" is the show the wire.

Yep. I see that now. I'm half way through season one now.

 

[92TigerME]

So not only do we have documentaries of everything that goes down on the business end of dealing drugs, we have cable TV drama series that closely represents the same thing and yet we still can't get off the ball and consider legalizing drugs.

I've read reports of this business being on the order of 200 billion/yr. Most of that is on the street because the dealer is going to flip a $25,000 kilo he gets from a Cartel drug lord into $300,000 by the time it gets to the customer. If that's the case, then I don't see how any of this goes away without legalizing the drugs because if you don't, the price is always going to be artificially inflated and as a result of that we are always going to see this huge competition to get this money on the street where there are no rules and violence seems to be the only means of corrective action.

What's more. None of this has anything to do with race or injustice. I mean, you could say there's racism and injustice in the system but none of this is because of that. It doesn't matter what race you are, there's always gong to be someone dealing and someone using and the cops are going to be all over the damn place shaking people down and getting into it with everyone. For what? Because some people will be stupid?

 

[92TigerME]

And here we go again just like in the HBO series.

 

[92TigerME]

Ok. I'm going to assume the kid getting beat up stole something. Just like in the HBO Series The Wire

Nothing to see here for all you War on Drugs people.

 

[TheValley91]

So not only do we have documentaries of everything that goes down on the business end of dealing drugs, we have cable TV drama series that closely represents the same thing and yet we still can't get off the ball and consider legalizing drugs.

I've read reports of this business being on the order of 200 billion/yr. Most of that is on the street because the dealer is going to flip a $25,000 kilo he gets from a Cartel drug lord into $300,000 by the time it gets to the customer. If that's the case, then I don't see how any of this goes away without legalizing the drugs because if you don't, the price is always going to be artificially inflated and as a result of that we are always going to see this huge competition to get this money on the street where there are no rules and violence seems to be the only means of corrective action.

What's more. None of this has anything to do with race or injustice. I mean, you could say there's racism and injustice in the system but none of this is because of that. It doesn't matter what race you are, there's always gong to be someone dealing and someone using and the cops are going to be all over the damn place shaking people down and getting into it with everyone. For what? Because some people will be stupid?

I'm probably going to regret even attempting to have a reasonable discussion with you but hey I got the time so why not.

If you look at it from a very macro level, yes people will do illegal things to gain great amounts of wealth no matter the race.

But the reason people bring up race in these discussions is because the system for decades was set up for people of color to no prosper and take their families to another level of wealth. That is just a fact I hope you can agree to.

From there you can see that alot of these drug dealings and arrests are coming from poor to lower income areas. Why might that be? Because people feel that is the only way for them to provide for their families or make any kind of serious money.

Lucky for someone like myself, I was raised and saw that I can do anything and become anything. That is not the case for others because there is generations of people in their family who did not have any real opportunities. Its a vicious cycle and unfortunately drugs are apart of that as well.

Making drugs legal will help but also focusing on real job opportunities, quality food options and great education in poor areas will start to chip away at decades of neglect.

 

[92TigerME]

I'm probably going to regret even attempting to have a reasonable discussion with you but hey I got the time so why not.

If you look at it from a very macro level, yes people will do illegal things to gain great amounts of wealth no matter the race.

But the reason people bring up race in these discussions is because the system for decades was set up for people of color to no prosper and take their families to another level of wealth. That is just a fact I hope you can agree to.

From there you can see that alot of these drug dealings and arrests are coming from poor to lower income areas. Why might that be? Because people feel that is the only way for them to provide for their families or make any kind of serious money.

Lucky for someone like myself, I was raised and saw that I can do anything and become anything. That is not the case for others because there is generations of people in their family who did not have any real opportunities. Its a vicious cycle and unfortunately drugs are apart of that as well.

Making drugs legal will help but also focusing on real job opportunities, quality food options and great education in poor areas will start to chip away at decades of neglect.

Prohibition provides an opportunity for those in poverty. We saw this in 1920 only back then it was the Irish, Italians and Jews who came over here without a pot to piss in and they took advantage of the situation with prohibition of alcohol to make money and they did. They also had the violence that goes with making illegal money. Same as today.

Cocaine and heroin is a business that is headquartered in the big city ghettos for the same reasons.

It's about making money and no amounts of government funding is going to get rid of it.

Also the argument that racism played a role in making the ghetto is a separate issue so why conflate?

You can't solve problems by making everything about the color of a person's skin. When you do that, you become blind to what the real causes are.

 

[TheValley91]

Prohibition provides an opportunity for those in poverty. We saw this in 1920 only back then it was the Irish, Italians and Jews who came over here without an pot to piss in and they took advantage of the situation with prohibition of alcohol to make money and they did.

Cocaine and heroin is a business that is headquartered in the big city ghettos for the same reasons.

It's about making money and no amounts of government funding is going to get rid of it.

Also the argument that racism played a role in making the ghetto is a separate issue so why conflate?

You can't solve problems by making everything about the color of a person's skin. When you do that, you become blind to what the real causes are.

You can not solve these issues without recognizing the role race has played in our past and into our present.

Until you get to that point, then we can not have a constructive conversation.

 

[92TigerME]

You can not solve these issues without recognizing the role race has played in our past and into our present.

Until you get to that point, then we can not have a constructive conversation.

Whatever whatever. I'm not asking to have a conversation with you.

Until you get over your own prejudice about color that's all you are going to see. You don't see the economics. Those dudes selling dope are ten times smarter than you. They know what I'm talking about. Not you.

All you see is money on the "Y" axis and Color on the "X" axis. You are stuck in two dimensions.

The government could put a trillion dollars into NY City and you would still have 30 guys working each block to sell that dope because they can pull in a million dollars a weekend.

When I got here from Brazil, we lived in a trailer. My economics had nothing to do with my race.

 

[TheValley91]

Whatever whatever. I'm not asking to have a conversation with you.

Until you get over your own prejudice about color that's all you are going to see. You don't see the economics. Those dudes selling dope are ten times smarter than you. They know what I'm talking about. Not you.

All you see is money on the "Y" axis and Color on the "X" axis. You are stuck in two dimensions.

The government could put a trillion dollars into NY City and you would still have 30 guys working each block to sell that dope because they can pull in a million dollars a weekend.

When I got here from Brazil, we lived in a trailer. My economics had nothing to do with my race.

And yet you kept typing.

 

[92TigerME]

And yet you kept typing.

At least you came in here. I can respect that but don't think I'm going to bite on the whole it's racism that's the problem argument. Racism didn't get Keith Lamont Scott killed by a Black Cop but they sure as hell said it did. Nor did it get Freddie Grey killed but they sure as hell said it did.

Selling drugs is about the money. Lots of it. People I listen to a lot about this is Kevin Chiles and Ricky Donnell.

Let me add some more to this post.

I'm thinking about what you said. So let's look at it your way.

Suppose we fixed everything the way you say but we went a bit too far and now all the Italians, Jews and Irish ended up in the Ghettos and all the Black people got wealthy and moved to Long Island. What would happen? Well, the Italians would control one end, the Jews another and the Irish would work the other end. They would sell the drugs, and start to killing each other just like we see now and cops would be out there after them every day. So. Is that your solution?

 

[BigTimeTiger]

the rest of this "movie" is the show the wire.

What Killed Michael Brown?

Great movie btw, you should watch it. You might learn something.

 

[TigerGrowls]

I'm probably going to regret even attempting to have a reasonable discussion with you but hey I got the time so why not.

If you look at it from a very macro level, yes people will do illegal things to gain great amounts of wealth no matter the race.

But the reason people bring up race in these discussions is because the system for decades was set up for people of color to no prosper and take their families to another level of wealth. That is just a fact I hope you can agree to.

From there you can see that alot of these drug dealings and arrests are coming from poor to lower income areas. Why might that be? Because people feel that is the only way for them to provide for their families or make any kind of serious money.

Lucky for someone like myself, I was raised and saw that I can do anything and become anything. That is not the case for others because there is generations of people in their family who did not have any real opportunities. Its a vicious cycle and unfortunately drugs are apart of that as well.

Making drugs legal will help but also focusing on real job opportunities, quality food options and great education in poor areas will start to chip away at decades of neglect.

Im going to regret even getting in this, but can you not recognize and acknowledge the millions upon millions of poor disadvantaged white people in this nation? Poor whites that have two strikes against them upon exiting the womb. Thats a fact. The issue in this country is not color based, its economic based and that system is not racial to the point where its an issue. Major corporations are falling and fighting to hire as many minorities as they can and I do not have a problem with it in general. Quit trying to make whites out to be evil racists as a rule man!! Its disgusting and not true. Obummer got elected by a strong majority white nation twice. Whites being in control have allowed all of this progress to happen. You and others need to look at the big picture that a lot of progress was made over the years. A huge lie is being thrown at the nation and its an attack on the nation. We are in a soft cultural and economic war right now. We need to all be brothers and sisters of the human race and quit trying to demonize people for stuff that happened way back.

 

[TheValley91]

Im going to regret even getting in this, but can you not recognize and acknowledge the millions upon millions of poor disadvantaged white people in this nation? Poor whites that have two strikes against them upon exiting the womb. Thats a fact. The issue in this country is not color based, its economic based and that system is not racial to the point where its an issue. Major corporations are falling and fighting to hire as many minorities as they can and I do not have a problem with it in general. Quit trying to make whites out to be evil racists as a rule man!! Its disgusting and not true. Obummer got elected by a strong majority white nation twice. Whites being in control have allowed all of this progress to happen. You and others need to look at the big picture that a lot of progress was made over the years. A huge lie is being thrown at the nation and its an attack on the nation. We are in a soft cultural and economic war right now. We need to all be brothers and sisters of the human race and quit trying to demonize people for stuff that happened way back.

Take the time and read this article. You'll see that there are still major gaps in wealth between race. I have yet to say anyone is evil in this thread. Understand your history and you will have a better understanding of your present.

Public Work Provides Economic Security for Black Families and Communities

Public sector jobs have long provided economic security for Black families and communities and reduced the racial wealth gap, but current policy failures threaten that legacy.

www.americanprogress.org

 

[92TigerME]

Take the time and read this article. You'll see that there are still major gaps in wealth between race. I have yet to say anyone is evil in this thread. Understand your history and you will have a better understanding of your present.

Public Work Provides Economic Security for Black Families and Communities

Public sector jobs have long provided economic security for Black families and communities and reduced the racial wealth gap, but current policy failures threaten that legacy.

www.americanprogress.org

I think this thread should be focused on the downside of prohibition and what it looks like from a community standpoint and everybody else when they see what goes down after an officer involved shooting. At a minimum people should understand what they are seeing play out and not jump to conclusions. What we see is what the war on drugs looks like. You have people buying and people doing what they have to do to sell and this is what it looks like. It's not pretty. Not only that, we see corruption at all levels including the police. The amount of money involved corrupts everyone.

To your point. I think you should consider looking at economic reasons but I suspect that you won't because you think that everything is caused by racism. Unfortunately with that bias, you can't see so many economic factors involved.

Let's suppose you do figure it out and your people are in the WH so it's time to show us what you got. How are you going to split up the drug trade?

Let's consider what would happen if financial fortunes were reversed but drugs remained illegal.

In this hypothetical view the Jews, Italians and Irish would start moving in on some of those blocks were black people are managing the business and Black people would lose interest. Then we would expect to see more white people shooting each other over dope deals and getting sentenced to 25 to life.

 

[scotchtiger]

Take the time and read this article. You'll see that there are still major gaps in wealth between race. I have yet to say anyone is evil in this thread. Understand your history and you will have a better understanding of your present.

Public Work Provides Economic Security for Black Families and Communities

Public sector jobs have long provided economic security for Black families and communities and reduced the racial wealth gap, but current policy failures threaten that legacy.

www.americanprogress.org

I read the article. I have a few issues with it, primarily a lack of consideration for alternate factors contributing to wealth and income gaps. The article only contemplates structural racism and racist hiring practices by private employers.

I will add that one of my grandfathers worked for the USPS, the other for the naval shipyard, my great grandfather was a fireman, my father ran a public works and my mother was a public school teacher. So the scotchtiger family is very familiar with public sector jobs.

The article also focuses on historical employment opportunities, which may well be very different than opportunities today. If we entertain the historical racial bias in private sector employment, we must also recognize the dramatic shift to diversity and inclusion programs that exist today. My team completed a RFP for Google earlier this year. 1/3 of the document was related to diversity and inclusion.

And to limit the causes of wealth and income gaps to racism is wildly shortsighted. Single parent households, parental involvement, HS graduation rates, cultural differences, you name it - all major factors.

The bottom line is that today, here in 2021, if a Black child works hard in school and achieves good grades, there is no structural racism holding that person back. Affirmative action ensures that student will have more higher education opportunities than their white counterparts. Work hard in college and graduate - plenty of opportunities await in both the public AND private sector.

That student needs good, involved parents though. If you are looking for a structural issue creating an income gap, perhaps we start there.

 

[92TigerME]

So this is the plan folks. Dole out 14 trillion dollars.

 

[scotchtiger]

So this is the plan folks. Dole out 14 trillion dollars.

View embedded media

Seems totally reasonable. I mean, my family that immigrated here after slavery was abolished, and I who was born in the early 80s, should totally pay slave reparations. And people who never experienced slavery, and most who have never even experienced segregation, should 100% get money from my family. I’m totally on board.

 

[TheValley91]

I read the article. I have a few issues with it, primarily a lack of consideration for alternate factors contributing to wealth and income gaps. The article only contemplates structural racism and racist hiring practices by private employers.

I will add that one of my grandfathers worked for the USPS, the other for the naval shipyard, my great grandfather was a fireman, my father ran a public works and my mother was a public school teacher. So the scotchtiger family is very familiar with public sector jobs.

The article also focuses on historical employment opportunities, which may well be very different than opportunities today. If we entertain the historical racial bias in private sector employment, we must also recognize the dramatic shift to diversity and inclusion programs that exist today. My team completed a RFP for Google earlier this year. 1/3 of the document was related to diversity and inclusion.

And to limit the causes of wealth and income gaps to racism is wildly shortsighted. Single parent households, parental involvement, HS graduation rates, cultural differences, you name it - all major factors.

The bottom line is that today, here in 2021, if a Black child works hard in school and achieves good grades, there is no structural racism holding that person back. Affirmative action ensures that student will have more higher education opportunities than their white counterparts. Work hard in college and graduate - plenty of opportunities await in both the public AND private sector.

That student needs good, involved parents though. If you are looking for a structural issue creating an income gap, perhaps we start there.

Good for your RFP that has inclusion and diversity. Also good for your family that had public sector jobs. There's your pat on the back you desperately seemed to need.

Now to the real discussion, of course the article focuses on that because its a real thing. Whether those decisions are made subconsciously or not, its a real thing. Private sector jobs have done a poor job of hiring people of color and putting them in positions of power. Things like affirmative action actually shows that without interference, people will generally choose people like themselves and who has been at the top of the economic food chain for decades...white people.

You are right that a solid family support system plays a massive role in how children perform in life. But I have to ask, do you think that inherently people of color have never valued that and only white people have in this country?

Yes a black child can become whatever they want. There are no actual boundaries to stop them. But on a macro scale, history plays a massive role as to why there are such economic inequalities between races. That doesn't make what you or what your family achieved a bad thing or that your family didn't work hard either. It's just reality that we Americans need to accept and try and do better going forward. I know I plan on doing that myself.

 

[92TigerME]

Good for your RFP that has inclusion and diversity. Also good for your family that had public sector jobs. There's your pat on the back you desperately seemed to need.

Now to the real discussion, of course the article focuses on that because its a real thing. Whether those decisions are made subconsciously or not, its a real thing. Private sector jobs have done a poor job of hiring people of color and putting them in positions of power. Things like affirmative action actually shows that without interference, people will generally choose people like themselves and who has been at the top of the economic food chain for decades...white people.

You are right that a solid family support system plays a massive role in how children perform in life. But I have to ask, do you think that inherently people of color have never valued that and only white people have in this country?

Yes a black child can become whatever they want. There are no actual boundaries to stop them. But on a macro scale, history plays a massive role as to why there are such economic inequalities between races. That doesn't make what you or what your family achieved a bad thing or that your family didn't work hard either. It's just reality that we Americans need to accept and try and do better going forward. I know I plan on doing that myself.

 

[scotchtiger]

Good for your RFP that has inclusion and diversity. Also good for your family that had public sector jobs. There's your pat on the back you desperately seemed to need.

Now to the real discussion, of course the article focuses on that because its a real thing. Whether those decisions are made subconsciously or not, its a real thing. Private sector jobs have done a poor job of hiring people of color and putting them in positions of power. Things like affirmative action actually shows that without interference, people will generally choose people like themselves and who has been at the top of the economic food chain for decades...white people.

You are right that a solid family support system plays a massive role in how children perform in life. But I have to ask, do you think that inherently people of color have never valued that and only white people have in this country?

Yes a black child can become whatever they want. There are no actual boundaries to stop them. But on a macro scale, history plays a massive role as to why there are such economic inequalities between races. That doesn't make what you or what your family achieved a bad thing or that your family didn't work hard either. It's just reality that we Americans need to accept and try and do better going forward. I know I plan on doing that myself.

I'm not following your first paragraph. No back pats needed. Simply pointing out that my family was rooted in public sector jobs, which ties personal experience to the article you provided.

RE: this comment:

You are right that a solid family support system plays a massive role in how children perform in life. But I have to ask, do you think that inherently people of color have never valued that and only white people have in this country?

Of course not. And I certainly didn't say that. But the statistics don't lie - Black children are far more likely to be in a single-parent household (particularly single mom) than white children (or any other race for that matter). Family support systems are the biggest influence in a child's life - not the government, not equality programs, not protests, not ole scotch's tax dollars - parents doing their job.

KIDS COUNT Data Center from the Annie E. Casey Foundation

Explore the KIDS COUNT Data Center for free statistical data about economics, education and health sorted by race, sex and age in our national data center.

datacenter.kidscount.org

And quite obviously, fatherless homes have negative effects on children: https://www.fatherhood.org/father-absence-statistic

I'm no scholar on the subject, but apparently this was not necessarily a cultural norm, but rather accelerated beginning around the Great Society and Fair Housing programs of the 60s. Perhaps an example of good intentions and unintended outcomes?

Curiously, BLM also calls for "the disruption of the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement." I'm not sure why this would be a goal for the advancement of Black Lives when the lack of strong nuclear family structure is likely a major contributor to the issues facing Black Americans.

Perhaps repairing the family structure should be a bigger focus than defunding police? But what do I know.

 

[92TigerME]

Show me a government housing project that didn't become a crime infested ghetto.

I'll wait.

Seems to me the problem has been too many socialist policies. Not free market capitalism.

Under the current way, nobody has to be responsible for anything. Just make babies and get paid. Don't have to get a job. Don't have to worry about losing a job for bad behavior.

Federal Housing programs are just socialism. How to bring people into the system. Once you get them in, they will never get out. If you don't like it, you're a racist cuz Capitalism is a bad greedy evil white man thing.

The irony is, housing programs for Blacks is racist because it assumes they can't. BLM is racist because they assume Black people can't.

 

[92TigerME]

Good for your RFP that has inclusion and diversity. Also good for your family that had public sector jobs. There's your pat on the back you desperately seemed to need.

Now to the real discussion, of course the article focuses on that because its a real thing. Whether those decisions are made subconsciously or not, its a real thing. Private sector jobs have done a poor job of hiring people of color and putting them in positions of power. Things like affirmative action actually shows that without interference, people will generally choose people like themselves and who has been at the top of the economic food chain for decades...white people.

You are right that a solid family support system plays a massive role in how children perform in life. But I have to ask, do you think that inherently people of color have never valued that and only white people have in this country?

Yes a black child can become whatever they want. There are no actual boundaries to stop them. But on a macro scale, history plays a massive role as to why there are such economic inequalities between races. That doesn't make what you or what your family achieved a bad thing or that your family didn't work hard either. It's just reality that we Americans need to accept and try and do better going forward. I know I plan on doing that myself.

I just ran into this right wing perspective from a Black person. Why do I respond with this? Because it's a right wing view that addresses some of your points and it comes from a Black person which may or may not add credibility. That's how people do now because nobody is allowed to talk about race from a right wing point of view. Keep in mind, that I have right wing views as pertaining to free market capitalism.

 

[TheValley91]

I just ran into this right wing perspective from a Black person. Why do I respond with this? Because it's a right wing view that addresses some of your points and it comes from a Black person which may or may not add credibility. That's how people do now because nobody is allowed to talk about race from a right wing point of view. Keep in mind, that I have right wing views as pertaining to free market capitalism.

View embedded media

 

[TheValley91]

I'm not following your first paragraph. No back pats needed. Simply pointing out that my family was rooted in public sector jobs, which ties personal experience to the article you provided.

RE: this comment:

You are right that a solid family support system plays a massive role in how children perform in life. But I have to ask, do you think that inherently people of color have never valued that and only white people have in this country?

Of course not. And I certainly didn't say that. But the statistics don't lie - Black children are far more likely to be in a single-parent household (particularly single mom) than white children (or any other race for that matter). Family support systems are the biggest influence in a child's life - not the government, not equality programs, not protests, not ole scotch's tax dollars - parents doing their job.

KIDS COUNT Data Center from the Annie E. Casey Foundation

Explore the KIDS COUNT Data Center for free statistical data about economics, education and health sorted by race, sex and age in our national data center.

datacenter.kidscount.org

And quite obviously, fatherless homes have negative effects on children: https://www.fatherhood.org/father-absence-statistic

I'm no scholar on the subject, but apparently this was not necessarily a cultural norm, but rather accelerated beginning around the Great Society and Fair Housing programs of the 60s. Perhaps an example of good intentions and unintended outcomes?

Curiously, BLM also calls for "the disruption of the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement." I'm not sure why this would be a goal for the advancement of Black Lives when the lack of strong nuclear family structure is likely a major contributor to the issues facing Black Americans.

Perhaps repairing the family structure should be a bigger focus than defunding police? But what do I know.

All I ask is why do you think black people are in those situations more? And also what caused that.

Secondly, you imply that these issue are more to do with "black culture". Watch the video i posted and become more of a "scholar" on the subject. Otherwise, stick to your tax complaints.

 

[92TigerME]

All I ask is why do you think black people are in those situations more? And also what caused that.

Secondly, you imply that these issue are more to do with "black culture". Watch the video i posted and become more of a "scholar" on the subject. Otherwise, stick to your tax complaints.

I did watch the video you posted. Did you?

I agree with what Jason L. Riley said. He won that debate.

He states.

Black people had far less crime, better jobs and much greater employment before 1960 when all these government welfare programs designed to help them began when there was clearly more racism back then.

So why are they always blaming the current condition on racism?

Jason Riley is definitely a scholar on this issue. I disagree with him on the crime issue. I think the crime will always be there as long as drugs are prohibited. It might not be mostly from Blacks but it will be from somebody. Just look at the MOB back during prohibition. Somebody is going to sell the drugs.

BTW. There is more to economics than taxation. The foundation of economics is Human Action. You should read the book if you want to be scholarly on economics. Human Action doesn't care what your skin color is. Individuals regardless of their skin color will always make purposeful decisions in order to achieve a desired outcome. If the government is paying you to live in a housing project and have babies out of wedlock, considering your options, you might be inclined to take that offer. Dropping 20 million dollars a year on a block to train people to work might create a 30 jobs for 30 lucky people but it won't bring economics to that block.

Democrat polices have failed over and over again.

 

[TheValley91]

I did watch the video you posted. Did you?

I agree with what Jason L. Riley said. He won that debate.

He states.

Black people had far less crime, better jobs and much greater employment before 1960 when all these government welfare programs designed to help them began when there was clearly more racism back then.

So why are they always blaming the current condition on racism?

Jason Riley is definitely a scholar on this issue. I disagree with him on the crime issue. I think the crime will always be there as long as drugs are prohibited. It might not be mostly from Blacks but it will be from somebody. Just look at the MOB back during prohibition. Somebody is going to sell the drugs.

BTW. There is more to economics than taxation. The foundation of economics is Human Action. You should read the book if you want to be scholarly on economics. Human Action doesn't care what your skin color is. Individuals regardless of their skin color will always make purposeful decisions in order to achieve a desired outcome. If the government is paying you to live in a housing project and have babies out of wedlock, considering your options, you might be inclined to take that offer. Dropping 20 million dollars a year on a block to train people to work might create a 30 jobs for 30 lucky people but it won't bring economics to that block.

Democrat polices have failed over and over again.

If you watch the entire clip, its pretty clear Riley has surface level points and when pressed, has no real answer or solution other than, its the culture.

He was taken down pretty soundly in that video.

 

[92TigerME]

If you watch the entire clip, its pretty clear Riley has surface level points and when pressed, has no real answer or solution other than, its the culture.

He was taken down pretty soundly in that video.

I'll break down both sides and give you my take later on today. I need about 2 hours since the video is long.

 

[92TigerME]

Jeffries disputes Riley's comparison of Black poverty with Asian poverty as he says Blacks have a poverty of different kind and uses a simple X vs Y comparison of debt vs negative outcome as if to say, if you're more in debt, you have less options. That's a trivial way of looking at something and doesn't really get to Riley's point that government programs have harnessed and moved Black people towards dependency.

He also states that incarceration rates are based on racism but he doesn't prove any of what he says. I don't agree with that. Incarceration rates are an effect of who is committing the crimes. Prejudices are also an effect as Riley points out. Who's doing what and people notice.

 

[TheValley91]

Jeffries disputes Riley's comparison of Black poverty with Asian poverty as he says Blacks have a poverty of different kind and uses a simple X vs Y comparison of debt vs negative outcome as if to say, if you're more in debt, you have less options. That's a trivial way of looking at something and doesn't really get to Riley's point that government programs have harnessed and moved Black people towards dependency.

He also states that incarceration rates are based on racism but he doesn't prove any of what he says. I don't agree with that. Incarceration rates are an effect of who is committing the crimes. Prejudices are also an effect as Riley points out. Who's doing what and people notice.

Yup that tracks for your perspective.

 

[92TigerME]

Yup that tracks for your perspective.

I'm wired to think in terms of cause and effect which is where Riley is coming from. Jeffries is looking at data correlation and then saying the cause must be racism as if nothing else but he fails to prove it. Riley comes back with if racism is the cause, then why didn't we have more disparity back in the 60s when racism was obviously greater? They are both looking at a macro view. When it comes to violent crime, Riley is blaming it on culture and Jeffries is blaming it on poverty. I'm blaming it on the war on drugs. Jeffries says the war on drugs is racist. I don't particularly see it that way. I see it for what it is. A pound of pure china white is like a suitcase full of money if you know how to work it. IMO, it doesn't matter what race you are, the war on drugs is going to provide that economic opportunity to meet market demand and with illegal money comes violence because the rules are what they are on the street. That's shown very accurately in the HBO series The Wire where killing is part of the business.