Follow the Science?

moradatiger70

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I don't need to hash thru all the quotes and comments from you libs from 2020 and beyond about, follow the science.

So why are they...making sweeping changes and reorganizing the CDC to create public trust?

pink-panther-pink.gif
 

TigerGrowls

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Willence

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Reactionary, but not surprising. They did what was thought best using the science available at the time. Hindsight and further knowledge of COVID gained since then give us a different perspective on what was and wasn’t necessary.

We don't often agree but I find you'd be a very insightful and knowledgeable poster. How are in this case you have conveniently forgotten a lot of facts from the time. They never followed the science. They play politics from almost the beginning.
 

moradatiger70

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Reactionary, but not surprising. They did what was thought best using the science available at the time. Hindsight and further knowledge of COVID gained since then give us a different perspective on what was and wasn’t necessary.
I can agree to an extent, but ignoring the chaos and politicization of their blatant mishandling does not excuse the matter, and every person that defended them on this board should be ashamed of falling for it all and demonizing anyone who disagreed! It won't happen, of course, because we all know by now, they will never and have never admitted a mistake, probably in their entire self-centered life.
 

ctcseb

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Reactionary, but not surprising. They did what was thought best using the science available at the time. Hindsight and further knowledge of COVID gained since then give us a different perspective on what was and wasn’t necessary.
I wish I could like this post multiple times. There's a difference between science and bureaucracy.

Science is two things, a process, and a body of knowledge:
- the process involves making observations, deriving an hypothesis, designing an experiment to test that hypothesis. If the hypothesis is proven, it becomes part of what is our best understanding of the world
- science as a body of knowledge is the collection of theories that make up our understanding of our the world works. This is what we look to for explanations and use to make projections.

The scientific process is pretty static and doesn't change often. However, the body of knowledge is constantly evolving. And that's a good thing. That means that a better understanding has come to light. Sometimes, that means that the prior "best theory" was wrong or incomplete. The body of knowledge is not perfect by any means. But that's the best we have at any given point in time.

The fervor with which people on this board criticize the evolving nature of our understanding of COVID, prevention measures, vaccine safety and efficacy, etc. is mind boggling. This was a shitshow of a situation with very limited data. And people were gloating and making fun of "science" being "wrong". That shows an utter lack of understanding of how science works. Scientific knowledge is dynamic by nature, it changes as we learn more, that's the point. It's not a bug, it's a feature! :)

The CDC had to make life or death public safety recommendations based on evolving data and understanding. None of the know-it-all on this board would have a great track record if they were put in this situation. Does this mean the CDC were perfect, nope, not at all. They have an opportunity to be much clearer, relay risks in a more transparent manner, etc. But none of that has to do with "follow the science", IMHO.
 
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WapPride

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We don't often agree but I find you'd be a very insightful and knowledgeable poster. How are in this case you have conveniently forgotten a lot of facts from the time. They never followed the science. They play politics from almost the beginning.
I’m far from a scientist so I tend to default to the experts on their opinions regarding what is best to do in certain situations. There was no reason to believe the cdc was lying about what they thought was best, unless you truly believe the bipartisan scientists that make up the cdc, and the world health organization, conspired to destroy the world economy to spite trump. I tend to shy away from conspiracy theories like that. That being said, the information we know today show we probably overreacted to what was necessary to combat COVID. I don’t blame the cdc for this, but rather applaud them for the changes they are enacting. I only hope that in future pandemics, which are undoubtedly coming, they take that into consideration.
Granted, we truly don’t know what would have happened on a large scale had the world had a less “extreme” reaction to COVID, so there’s no telling what the true death toll would look like had we followed a more laissez faire approach to COVID
 

Willence

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I don't think it's a case of them necessarily lying about things. But there was a lot of incompetence and there was a lot of political pressure that they caved into. The fact that they never really put any stock in natural immunity was a huge mistake. All the masking of children in school without considering the developmental consequences was a huge fail too. Just a lot of mistakes.
 

97ClemsonMac

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Reactionary, but not surprising. They did what was thought best using the science available at the time. Hindsight and further knowledge of COVID gained since then give us a different perspective on what was and wasn’t necessary.
100%. Just a lot of mistakes made between him and Trump as well, but the nation has never faced such an event. I certainly wouldn’t have wanted to be in either of their positions during the crisis.

Also agree with Willence, you keep me in check and aren’t attacking my opinions, and I appreciate that
 

other1

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I don't think it's a case of them necessarily lying about things. But there was a lot of incompetence and there was a lot of political pressure that they caved into. The fact that they never really put any stock in natural immunity was a huge mistake. All the masking of children in school without considering the developmental consequences was a huge fail too. Just a lot of mistakes.
I think the kids will manage to work their way through the "trauma" of wearing a mask as long as the adults in their lives don't make it an issue.
 
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clempzenbill

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Reactionary, but not surprising. They did what was thought best using the science available at the time. Hindsight and further knowledge of COVID gained since then give us a different perspective on what was and wasn’t necessary.
Wrong, you need to go read the excerpts of Dr Birx’s new book And revisit what science knew about pandemics three years ago. It is a very long well established field of study, and it was ignored.
She admits there was ZERO science to support the lockdowns, in fact world wide there were virologists and epidemiologists everywhere supporting herd immunity and letting the virus run through the healthy population as fast as possible to minimize the time span of the pandemic and risk to the vulnerable. Big Tech censored them as much as they could and the media had a virtual black out of doctors who pointed out the obvious bad policies of CDC
But there WAS 100 YEARS of scientifically established pandemic protocol that the CDC IGNORED and did the polar OPPOSITE of.
They also knew that the masks 98% of people were wearing were useless. Stanford’s Hoover institute reviewed 17 clinical studies on masks and concluded masks were useless back in 2020, ignored by the morons at the CDC.
A study of counties in Kansas was particularly telling as the state left it to each county whether to mandate masks or not. The counties that mandated masks had roughly 50% higher death rates from Covid due to rebreathing the virus trapped by the masks. There are thousands of studies on masks which the CDC ignored.
There was zero science behind the six foot separation demands.
NOW their current policy is for everyone to choose how they handle it on a personal basis. This is what Florida did TWO YEARS AGO and the Dems, CDC/Fauci/Birx and media blasted Desantis for this.
Many many countries followed our lead and the result?- millions dead due to economic collapse because of the total incompetence and politicization of Covid. UNICEF estimates at least 200,000 children died, just in Asia, from the lock downs.
quite recently Phizer was forced to open early research on their experimental vaccine. Over 40% of pregnant women had miscarriages!
The CDC is guilty of mass murder
 

Willence

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I think the kids will manage to work their way through the "trauma" of wearing a mask as long as the adults in their lives don't make it an issue.

You either don't have kids or you don't know very much about education. Either way you're welcome to your opinion but you don't have the first clue what you're talking about in terms of childhood development.
 

Cocks are Number 1

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We don't often agree but I find you'd be a very insightful and knowledgeable poster. How are in this case you have conveniently forgotten a lot of facts from the time. They never followed the science. They play politics from almost the beginning.
Funny.. I remember recognizing this from the beginning, calling it out, and getting TI crucified for it.

I wasn’t alone.
 

WapPride

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Wrong, you need to go read the excerpts of Dr Birx’s new book And revisit what science knew about pandemics three years ago. It is a very long well established field of study, and it was ignored.
She admits there was ZERO science to support the lockdowns, in fact world wide there were virologists and epidemiologists everywhere supporting herd immunity and letting the virus run through the healthy population as fast as possible to minimize the time span of the pandemic and risk to the vulnerable. Big Tech censored them as much as they could and the media had a virtual black out of doctors who pointed out the obvious bad policies of CDC
But there WAS 100 YEARS of scientifically established pandemic protocol that the CDC IGNORED and did the polar OPPOSITE of.
They also knew that the masks 98% of people were wearing were useless. Stanford’s Hoover institute reviewed 17 clinical studies on masks and concluded masks were useless back in 2020, ignored by the morons at the CDC.
A study of counties in Kansas was particularly telling as the state left it to each county whether to mandate masks or not. The counties that mandated masks had roughly 50% higher death rates from Covid due to rebreathing the virus trapped by the masks. There are thousands of studies on masks which the CDC ignored.
There was zero science behind the six foot separation demands.
NOW their current policy is for everyone to choose how they handle it on a personal basis. This is what Florida did TWO YEARS AGO and the Dems, CDC/Fauci/Birx and media blasted Desantis for this.
Many many countries followed our lead and the result?- millions dead due to economic collapse because of the total incompetence and politicization of Covid. UNICEF estimates at least 200,000 children died, just in Asia, from the lock downs.
quite recently Phizer was forced to open early research on their experimental vaccine. Over 40% of pregnant women had miscarriages!
The CDC is guilty of mass murder
Do you have a lot of experience in virology and immunology? I’m not going to go through all of this, bc there’s a lot of claims and assumptions with zero corresponding data to support them. If I’m not mistaken, Birx was a proponent of social distancing and mask usage(for certain individuals), and also supported the vaccine. She did come out this year saying we may have overreacted, and she also had a ton of negative things to say about the former administration’s handling of COVID. That being said, you clearly don’t understand how the scientific method works.
 

moradatiger70

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I for one like to follow science, in more ways than just this type. But to just dissolve the notion that some of their actions were not political in a short-sided conclusion IMO.
I am glad for the reforms and glad they made this public.
 

Jjh7

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I think the kids will manage to work their way through the "trauma" of wearing a mask as long as the adults in their lives don't make it an issue.
Im sure the 2 years getting homeschooled didnt make our already lagging academic performance any worse. we def didnt create a whole generation of sociopaths and god knows what other mental damage will emerge among elementary age kids isolated for years in formative stages of socialization. Sure there wont be a large uptick in violently angry individuals among the older kids who were robbed of some of the most carefree and fun years you get in life and the memories they didnt get to make…for whats always been massively idiotic and cruel policies not based in science at all. Weve seen drug abuse, mental health issues, and crime numbers skyrocket during that period amongst the adult population. Just like i didnt need a virology degree to be years ahead of the science i dont need a psychology degree to see serious mental issues emerging from that generation
 
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PawsFan_

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Jjh7

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40% of pregnant women had miscarriages!
The CDC is guilty of mass murder
Yup, tbh they coulda held onto that one. It could serve at least one purpose effectively…let the idiots who cheerled lockdowns and mandates vax themselves outta the gene pool
 

ctcseb

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Yup, tbh they coulda held onto that one. It could serve at least one purpose effectively…let the idiots who cheerled lockdowns and mandates vax themselves outta the gene pool
Are there any reputable sources for that 40% number? Legitimately asking.
 
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Jjh7

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Are there any reputable sources for that 40% number? Legitimately asking.
Pfizer themselves. Part of court order to release trial data. 22/50 pregnant participants suffered miscarriage. Pfizer alleged none were related to vaccine and that was all the fda needed to hear.
 

ctcseb

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Pfizer themselves. Part of court order to release trial data. 22/50 pregnant participants suffered miscarriage. Pfizer alleged none were related to vaccine and that was all the fda needed to hear.
So, you are saying it happened during the trial but then not in real life? Three medical studies reviewed 100k+ pregnancies and related miscarriages and didn’t see this at all.
 
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ctcseb

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Jjh7

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So, you are saying it happened during the trial but then not in real life? Three medical studies reviewed 100k+ pregnancies and related miscarriages and didn’t see this at all.
I mean the people in the trial are real, but i cant get pregnant so it wasnt on my list my list of concerns and i wasnt getting it regardless.

looking now i see another source that sees trial data at 18%, basically they dropped 3500 pages of data and one believes the other duplicated numbers. Thats about the extent i plan on looking into it, i was just making a joke about it. Sounds like at best its moderately higher than avg and at worst significantly higher. Reading a 3500 page pharma data dump to figure out which is correct sounds about as fun as diarrhea
 

Jjh7

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ctcseb

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How she still has a job is just mindblowing. Poor leadership, poor decision making, poor everything.
 
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I’m far from a scientist so I tend to default to the experts on their opinions regarding what is best to do in certain situations. There was no reason to believe the cdc was lying about what they thought was best, unless you truly believe the bipartisan scientists that make up the cdc, and the world health organization, conspired to destroy the world economy to spite trump. I tend to shy away from conspiracy theories like that. That being said, the information we know today show we probably overreacted to what was necessary to combat COVID. I don’t blame the cdc for this, but rather applaud them for the changes they are enacting. I only hope that in future pandemics, which are undoubtedly coming, they take that into consideration.
Granted, we truly don’t know what would have happened on a large scale had the world had a less “extreme” reaction to COVID, so there’s no telling what the true death toll would look like had we followed a more laissez faire approach to COVID
I dont think they were lying, i think they were incompetent. It was embarrassing the way they handled covid? Masks? GTFO. That didn't pass the common sense test of a first grader.

They still recommend covid shots for kids not acknowledging they face a minuscule risk. The CDC is an utter embarrassment. Its unfortunate, because if we have a real crises no one is going to listen to them because they, like the democrats, acted like the little boy that cried wolf.
 
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Jjh7

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Thank you. 18% is higher than the typical 12% average but it definitely isn’t the 40+% that is being reported.

@clempzenbill Care to comment on the debunked numbers?
Yea id guess the 18 is closer to right but the second article gets into some verbal gymnastics i dont care enough to make sense of. Kinda insane pfizer doesnt aggregate that in straightforward manner. Thats obviously a point of public interest and youd hope the fda’s. Trying to track individual or partial data across a couple thousand pages is how people arrive at different answers.

or put all raw data in an online database you can access with sql, python etc
 

nytigerfan

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I don't need to hash thru all the quotes and comments from you libs from 2020 and beyond about, follow the science.

So why are they...making sweeping changes and reorganizing the CDC to create public trust?

pink-panther-pink.gif

I love it. The CDC announced they are restructuring to be more prepared for the next pandemic and make fewer mistakes.

You dolts take that to mean:
- the CDC just admitted covid was a political hoax hit job to take down Trump just like I been sayin all along!
- Ivermectin works!
- masks dont work!
- they admitted the vaccine dont work!
 
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I love it. The CDC announced they are restructuring to be more prepared for the next pandemic and make fewer mistakes.

You dolts take that to mean:
- the CDC just admitted covid was a political hoax hit job to take down Trump just like I been sayin all along!
- Ivermectin works!
- masks dont work!
- they admitted the vaccine dont work!

Masks dont work against the spread of Covid-19. Never have never will.
 
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moradatiger70

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I love it. The CDC announced they are restructuring to be more prepared for the next pandemic and make fewer mistakes.

You dolts take that to mean:
- the CDC just admitted covid was a political hoax hit job to take down Trump just like I been sayin all along!
- Ivermectin works!
- masks dont work!
- they admitted the vaccine dont work!
Never said that. You might have wanted me to say that, or maybe your internal voice said, I said that.
Glad they're making some changes. Needed to happen, just wish it would have been sooner.
Calm down!
 

Allornothing

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iceheart08

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Masks dont work against the spread of Covid-19. Never have never will.

Masks don't prevent the spread of covid19. That's an accurate statement.

What you posted, that they "don't work against the spread" is objectively untrue, by every measure. Are they perfect? No. But n95 masks absolutely reduce the likelihood that you contract the virus. This isnt a question or even in debate by serious people.

The difference between standing in a room without a mask with others and standing in a room with a n95 mask with others is a measurable impact on your exposure to the virus.
 

nytigerfan

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Never said that. You might have wanted me to say that, or maybe your internal voice said, I said that.
Glad they're making some changes. Needed to happen, just wish it would have been sooner.
Calm down!

My bad, I just quoted your post since you are the OP. If you read through your thread, that is what a lot of people here are saying. They are claiming that this vindicates all of their conspiracies from the last two years. It doesn't.

I for one am happy that a government agency is actually looking at their performance and trying to improve it.
 

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