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Football Team at 85.5% vaccination rate

For anybody thinking my prior post is hyperbole, I introduce you to Exhibit A:

Anti-Vaxxer Sheriff who took horse dewormer dies of Covid

You can't make this up. Felt "censored" on Facebook for his Covid antivaxxer views. Put freaking horse dewormer in his body because he thought that was more appropriate, safer, and more effective than vaccine. Dies of COVID. Welcome to the new America. And going against all FDA warnings, this horse dewormer treatment was promoted by Ingraham and Carlson on... Foxnews. Stupidity is literally killing people. Incredible...
 
For anybody thinking my prior post is hyperbole, I introduce you to Exhibit A:

Anti-Vaxxer Sheriff who took horse dewormer dies of Covid

You can't make this up. Felt "censored" on Facebook for his Covid antivaxxer views. Put freaking horse dewormer in his body because he thought that was more appropriate, safer, and more effective than vaccine. Dies of COVID. Welcome to the new America. And going against all FDA warnings, this horse dewormer treatment was promoted by Ingraham and Carlson on... Foxnews. Stupidity is literally killing people. Incredible...
But…my freedoms!!!!!
 
I hope our QB (DJ) is vaccinated . If he comes down with Corvid it changes everything . He is the only one we can't afford to lose for the Georgia game .
You realize he can still test positive for covid having been vaccinated. Almost nothing has changed from last year. All athletes are susceptible(none died last year). You have a 99.98% chance of living through this thing if you are in their age group.
 
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You realize he can still test positive for covid having been vaccinated. Almost nothing has changed from last year. All athletes are susceptible(none died last year). You have a 99.98% chance of living through this thing if you are in their age group.
I don’t believe vaccinated players get tested as regularly. It’s a business decision to be vaccinated
 
Unless those people clog up the ICUs and folks with less preventable issues don’t have access. Again, the filling up of hospitals with these bozos is what gets me. If you want to be unvaccinated, fine, but would you also commit to not going to the hospital if you get it? Of course you wouldn’t. And therein lies the inconsistency to me
Well I can surely agree with you there on

my main point, that I didn’t convey very well ——- the same people keep coming into threads preaching. They aren’t changing minds.
 
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Not sure who some of you are trying to convince to get or not get vaccinated. But some of you have posted your opinions over and over and over. Whose mind do you think you are changing?

Man, just let people die and get sick - what difference it make to you?

And if people want to get vaccinated for whatever reason - work, travel, health - then let em

You do you.
This to my recollection is the first time I’ve posted anything about the vaccine. Myself and my spouse are docs.

It gets old seeing all the people post about getting vaccinated. Everybody has their reasons for not getting vaccinated. But do think about it, it does matter.

The wife intubated a 6 week-old infant with COVID respiratory failure yesterday. I cry thinking about those parents we failed. I spent 30 minutes listening to one of my patients sobbing, telling me about how his wife died after two weeks of being in the hospital where the last time he saw her was when the ambulance doors shut. I cry thinking about the suffering and loneliness in his life. I know over 10 of my personal patients whom I did their surgery and became part of their family who have passed from COVID. It feels like I knew ghosts.

I don’t expect this post to change anyone’s mind. But thinking about getting vaccinated does matter, whatever those reasons may be. It’s a terrible feeling to not be able to help those people above, and that’s why people are just trying to do anything they can to help
 
There are several articles with that study out

Easy to find.


Just FYI it’s a pre-peer reviewed study from Israel. This is a research group releasing information before that information can be reviewed as credible by other doctors.

It uses a lot of buzz words and flashy statistics, but doesn’t include much in the article of substance unless you want to pay for an article that nobody has peer reviewed or agreed to publish in a journal. Sounds like a cash grab for publicity. Scientifically interesting, but everything in it could be false without a peer review process / publication to a journal.
 
I would assume some of those who aren't vaccinated have already had Covid which would put the team really close to 100%

This notion of those with natural antibodies doesn't count as much as being vaccinated is silly and ignorant.

A study confirmed that natural infection is 13x more effective than the vaccine. When will those in power start following the science and stop discounting natural infection into any "herd immunity" situation?
This is the kind of ignorance that’s filling up hospitals.
Please don’t listen to him. Get vaccinated.
 
If it weren’t for the fact that they are clogging up our healthcare system and stopping other patients from getting care, I’d be fine with the evolutionary process happening right now. Survival of the fittest in real time.

Imagine getting in a car accident and your kid can’t get admitted to the ICU because some moron didn’t get a free vaccine to own the libs.
Yep. We should prioritize healthcare to serve vaccinated individuals first.
 
Not sure who some of you are trying to convince to get or not get vaccinated. But some of you have posted your opinions over and over and over. Whose mind do you think you are changing?

Man, just let people die and get sick - what difference it make to you?

And if people want to get vaccinated for whatever reason - work, travel, health - then let em

You do you.
Except leaders in this country want to implement mandates to protect the unvaccinated. Which affects me.

And I’m selfishly not ok with that. Ive taken the measures to protect myself. If others don’t, that’s not my problem.
 
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Just FYI it’s a pre-peer reviewed study from Israel. This is a research group releasing information before that information can be reviewed as credible by other doctors.

It uses a lot of buzz words and flashy statistics, but doesn’t include much in the article of substance unless you want to pay for an article that nobody has peer reviewed or agreed to publish in a journal. Sounds like a cash grab for publicity. Scientifically interesting, but everything in it could be false without a peer review process / publication to a journal.
I dont read anything that's not peer reviewed.
 
Unless those people clog up the ICUs and folks with less preventable issues don’t have access. Again, the filling up of hospitals with these bozos is what gets me. If you want to be unvaccinated, fine, but would you also commit to not going to the hospital if you get it? Of course you wouldn’t. And therein lies the inconsistency to me
This is what gets me. I didn’t get vaccinated for the longest because I had already had it and figured I had antibodies but decided what the heck let’s not be apart of the problem.

But the people that don’t get vaccinated because they don’t trust the medicine or advice from their Doctor all seem to go to the hospital and get help from the people they don’t trust.

I haven’t heard of many people being found dead at their home from Coivd. They all seem to make it to the hospital seeking help.

Oh and if you think this medicine was developed in a year you have lost your mind.

that being said you do you just don’t ruin my football season.
 
According to CDC those who have been previously infected and are still unvaccinated are twice as likely to be reinfected that those who were infected and had the vaccine.


According to a study done in Israel, natural immunity is better than vax immunity with no prior Covid.

 
This is the kind of ignorance that’s filling up hospitals.
Please don’t listen to him. Get vaccinated.

I haven't had Covid. I'm also vaxxed because I can see the tremendous benefit.

We're seeing a lot of breakthrough cases among the fully vaxxed. We will continue to see a lot of breakthrough cases. Fortunately, the vaccine significantly reduces the symptoms/risks. I would encourage anyone not vaxxed to do so.

What bothers me is people such as yourself continue to completely discount natural infection and act as if it offers inferior protection against future infection.

It is mind boggling that the CDC doesn't track odds for a second infection and what those cases look like. Are second infections very mild? What percentage end up hospitalized or die?

I think we both know the answers but it is vaccine or bust.

Serious question and I'll hope you'll answer honestly. How many fully vaxxed people do you know who have had a breakthrough case? How many people do you know who have had Covid twice?

Right now, 18 months into this pandemic the reinfection rate is less than 1% for those who already had Covid.

Natural infection should absolutely be counted toward "herd immunity" regardless of vaccination status.
 
I haven't had Covid. I'm also vaxxed because I can see the tremendous benefit.

We're seeing a lot of breakthrough cases among the fully vaxxed. We will continue to see a lot of breakthrough cases. Fortunately, the vaccine significantly reduces the symptoms/risks. I would encourage anyone not vaxxed to do so.

What bothers me is people such as yourself continue to completely discount natural infection and act as if it offers inferior protection against future infection.

It is mind boggling that the CDC doesn't track odds for a second infection and what those cases look like. Are second infections very mild? What percentage end up hospitalized or die?

I think we both know the answers but it is vaccine or bust.

Serious question and I'll hope you'll answer honestly. How many fully vaxxed people do you know who have had a breakthrough case? How many people do you know who have had Covid twice?

Right now, 18 months into this pandemic the reinfection rate is less than 1% for those who already had Covid.

Natural infection should absolutely be counted toward "herd immunity" regardless of vaccination status.
I’m not acting as if natural immunity is not as good….it’s bc it actually is, regardless of one study that hasn’t been peer reviewed and published out of Israel.
 
. I cry thinking about those parents we failed
Thank you for sharing these heartbreaking stories that highlight the reality of the situation. Question for you, why do you feel you “failed” these parents? If people don’t want to protect themselves and their loved ones, why should the burden of guilt be on people like you on the medical side?
 
Well I can surely agree with you there on

my main point, that I didn’t convey very well ——- the same people keep coming into threads preaching. They aren’t changing minds.
Fair enough haha, we’re just yelling at walls lol
 
Hoping we get to 100% soon though it sounds like we’ll run out of time before the season starts.

Putting football aside, here in Texas hospitalizations due to covid are up 1,200% since June 1 and severe cases are almost exclusively occurring in unvaccinated patients. In North Texas hospital region (DFW metroplex) there are exactly 2 available pediatric ICU beds (as of 3 days ago). Children are being airlifted to Oklahoma City just to find an available bed.

Seton Hospital in Austin have completely closed their operating rooms and have had to cancel multiple surgeries for cancer patients and heart patients, with one surgeon stating that he was not able to perform a needed emergency bypass on a heart patient that was having chest pains.

Last week, an assistant football coach at Allen High School (about 45 mins from me and where Chad Morris is the head coach) died from Covid. He was 56 and unvaccinated.

There is simply NO logical reason for any person to not be vaccinated.

You gotta talk this shit in every single thread? There’s enough information on the interwebs for everyone to make their own informed decision at this point without your anticdotal stories and tidbits. Stick to breaking down game film, way more entertaining than your COVID ramblings.
 
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Let's play anti-vaxxers bingo, how many of the following boxes do you check?

Types of COVID vaccine skeptics
Medical skepticism: You have people that are anti-vaxxers to start with. They are skeptical of the medical establishment or healthcare system and believe in alternative solutions like essential oils. People in this category aren't against the COVID vaccine, they are against all vaccines.

Religious fatalism: some people believe everything should be left in the hands of God. Whatever happens (good or bad) happens for a reason. Taking the vaccine is going against the will of God as humans are trying to game the system and go against fate. Some feel like God will protect them through it all (they're part of his favorites vs. the other ones that don't make the cut) or that if they do die, it was meant to be.

Government rejection: some reject this not because the fear the vaccine but because it feels like a violation of free will and government overreach. They feel like the government is meddling with their personal affairs by telling them how to deal with medical concerns. Some would probably choose to take the vaccine under different circumstances but not if it's the government asking.

Cost/benefit disagreement: some believe the shot is not worth taking through a combination of beliefs that COVID isn't a serious problem (only kills others, "not me") and that the vaccine hasn't been proven to be safe ("too risky").

Individualism: A variation around the prior group, this group believes it's not their problem or not worth the risk to try get the shot to reduce (using reduce on purpose, not eliminate) the risk of contagion to loved ones and others. The people that can't get the vaccine aren't their problem.

From your "sheep" comment, I would guess you at least hit the government rejection one. And your "smarter than you" comment is hilarious at best. 97% of doctors in the U.S. are vaccinated but you somehow are smarter than all of the people that do this for a living, all the doctors, all scientists with PhDs? This type of cognitive blindspot and bias is astonishing.

Sorry but your comments are part of a mindset issue that I want to address. If I had to guess based on your comments, you are part of the biggest group of hypocrites in American history, the one that found a like minded leader in Trump and his bumper sticker sized thoughts and 'Murica bravado. Let me introduce you to the concept of the Republican Jellyfish: spineless, heartless, brainless. It's a subset of the Republican party but seems to have taken over, to the chagrin of the reasonable branch of the Republican party. The party's soul is in the balance and the next few years will determine if the party will go back to reason and principles or not.

They are spineless and failed to stand up to grave attacks on our democracy like the hyperpoliticization of the Justice department by Trump, his flirtation with the alt-right (the dogwhistles and ambiguous comments to keep their votes), or bromance with Putin and North Korea (I can't imagine how many real Republicans turned in their grave...). They are also spineless and constantly play victimization games. I absolutely hate snowflakes and I cannot believe the Jellyfish have taken over that crown. All they talk about is how the world is against them and its not fair, it's a constant circle jerk they quite enjoy. They are heartless in how they gloat about the pain and suffering in others, anybody that is not a fellow Jellyfish. Wearing masks/socially distancing/getting vaccinated to protect loved ones and neighbors, or eww, society at large, are you kidding me? 4 people die and they'll Benghazi and politicize the shit out of the situation but 628,000 people die and who cares, right? Double standard much? (Personal note: anybody dying is a tragedy and what happened over there is horrible - just pointing out the magnitude difference in toll and reaction not matching magnitude) And they are brainless in that they believe in alternate facts and will believe anything as long as it supports their biased worldviews. They think that self-justification, the process of finding excuses for their beliefs, is a form of rational thinking, lol.

Republican Jellyfish are the type of people that will say that it's okay if a Black man has been shot dead by a cop "because he should have listened". But what if several of our unvaccinated players get COVID and can't play, and lo and behold, we lose a game (NC State baseball forfeit anyone?). Will they say "they should have listened to the ACC"? Heck no, they are going to raise hell about this "injustice," lol. To them, listening to authority is for others, not them. Rules are only good if they serve them.

Republican Jellyfish will constantly demonize the socialist policies of the left and are totally happy with letting society pay for their COVID hospital stays when they could have avoided those with a free vaccine. So, which is it? People should own the consequences of their actions or you need the rest of the country to pay for yours?

So, lol at your "sheep" and "smarter" comments. We are witnessing the dumbification of America, it's like watching the movie Idiocracy in slow motion. The people trusting their Aunts' medical advice on Facebook are calling the rest of us sheep and believe they are smarter. SMH...

You ever read your own drivel and realize what a complete whack job you are?
 
You ever read your own drivel and realize what a complete whack job you are?
Any cogent refutation or counter arguments? Please engage me in a productive discussion and prove the points I made wrong. Please do.

I even provided an example of who I am talking about in my next post. A antivaxxers cop using horse dewormer and dying of Covid. The anti-science/ anti-reason mindset is strong with a lot of people.

Much easier to broadly dismiss it all and go down the character assassination path, isn’t it?
 
Any cogent refutation or counter arguments? Please engage me in a productive discussion and prove the points I made wrong. Please do.

I even provided an example of who I am talking about in my next post. A antivaxxers cop using horse dewormer and dying of Covid. The anti-science/ anti-reason mindset is strong with a lot of people.

Much easier to broadly dismiss it all and go down the character assassination path, isn’t it?

Video of PhD Cellular Biologist from Michigan

@Superica28
@dbjork6317

Would love your thoughts on her comments. It’s 8 min, so kind of long. Hopefully the link works.
she is addressing a committee in the Michigan House i believe.
 
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Well, someone who has underlying conditions and chooses to not get vaccinated and gets sick/dies……doesn’t affect others. Surely doesn’t affect me. Still not sure why we care.

People who get vaccinated don’t affect me either.
😀
 
I am really disappointed in this low percentage.
Both the team and the staff numbers are stupidly low. The % of unvaxxed compared to vaxxed in the Greenville SC hospital tells you all you need to know. From in the hospital, to in the ICU, to on ventilators to dead all tell the same story. So much for all in, & so much for culture on the team and in the Athletic Department.

The concern and issue here goes beyond football. If a person isn’t going to take the great majority of physicians’ advice before getting Covid, why go to the hospital when you or Mom or anyone you know and love can’t breathe and is facing an agonizing death? When such a person does finally go for help he is exposing the caregivers needlessly to a disease that is killing 1000+ every day.

A cult of ignorance is killing a lot of people and refusing to accept responsibility.
 
Thank you for sharing these heartbreaking stories that highlight the reality of the situation. Question for you, why do you feel you “failed” these parents? If people don’t want to protect themselves and their loved ones, why should the burden of guilt be on people like you on the medical side?
Because some people in the world share empathy for others and don’t just think about their own self interests.
 
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Video of PhD Cellular Biologist from Michigan

@Superica28
@dbjork6317

Would love your thoughts on her comments. It’s 8 min. so kind of long. Hopefully the link works.
she is addressing a committee in the Michigan House i believe.

Thanks for sharing. I am all for encouraging this type of discourse. I wish science was more "black and white" so to speak and it was sometimes easier to just "pick a side". But it's a complex situation.

Going to say something you may like, there should be a "confidence level" associated with the reasoning behind certain public policies. While I want science and reason to be a significant driver to policies, it is equally as important to understand the shortcoming and limitations. At any point in time, this is the "best we know" but that "best we know" may change radically with the next study or the next variant, etc. That's why while I believe the cost benefit of vaccination is there, I am not in favor of government mandates.

Regarding complexity and nuance, we can look no further than the even the vaccinated vs. unvaccinated debate. Turns out vaccinated isn't a single block, efficacy, likelihood to get re-infected, likelihood to transmit it to other people, vary on a set of conditions, one of them being how long ago you were vaccinated. So, we are trying to turn everything into "everybody just do this" when it's not quite that simple.

A counterpoint I would make additions to the scientific body of knowledge are made based on consensus, not absolute universal acceptance. So, while 97% of the doctors in the U.S. are vaccinated that leaves 3% that choose to not be. So, you will always find people that don't agree with the general opinion, even with the realm of science and these comments / videos then get used not by people that actively understand and participate in the scientific debate, but as validation of their bias/worldview.
 
According to CDC those who have been previously infected and are still unvaccinated are twice as likely to be reinfected that those who were infected and had the vaccine.

Very small study in Kentucky that was cherry picked. Here is a much larger study.
According to CDC those who have been previously infected and are still unvaccinated are twice as likely to be reinfected that those who were infected and had the vaccine.

Very small study in Kentucky that was cherry picked. Here is a much larger study.

 
So are you claiming that people who have had previous Covid infection are filling up hospitals? Can you show me that data? Thanks.
My point is that people aren’t listening to infectious disease type of doctors. They’re finding a study online or listening to a podcast or even a friend that’s a pediatrician, nurse, or pharmacist and going based off of that .
 
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Ok. Assuming that is true and vaccines are not more effective against reinfection, the vaccine is unquestionably more effective at limiting the severity of the infection and the chances that you’ll die.

Vaccination status is THE most clear difference between those that are in the hospital and dying from Covid right now and those that are quarantining at home with mild symptoms from Covid right now.

Again, there is no logical reason for any person to not be vaccinated whether they’ve been infected before or not.
I reject this premise as well. Never in human history have we treated illness with a vaccine. Saying get it for the symptoms makes very little sense. I understand it’s what is being said as the prevention of the virus has now been debunked.

If you have an open mind and want to learn I’d encourage you to read about Uttar Pradesh in India. They are treating symptoms with known safe medicines we’ve used for decades and they have seen extraordinary success. Treating symptoms within 7 days on onset is actually the clearest difference between being in the hospital and full recovery.
 
My point is that people aren’t listening to infectious disease type of doctors. They’re finding a study online or listening to a podcast or even a friend that’s a pediatrician, nurse, or pharmacist and going based off of that .
That guy was posting information about natural immunity. You claimed that specific info about natural immunity was causing hospitals to fill up. Again are you claiming people with natural immunity are filling up hospitals? Yes or no will suffice. Thanks.
 
Any cogent refutation or counter arguments? Please engage me in a productive discussion and prove the points I made wrong. Please do.

I even provided an example of who I am talking about in my next post. A antivaxxers cop using horse dewormer and dying of Covid. The anti-science/ anti-reason mindset is strong with a lot of people.

Much easier to broadly dismiss it all and go down the character assassination path, isn’t it?

I only made it about three sentences in.
 
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Thanks for sharing. I am all for encouraging this type of discourse. I wish science was more "black and white" so to speak and it was sometimes easier to just "pick a side". But it's a complex situation.

Going to say something you may like, there should be a "confidence level" associated with the reasoning behind certain public policies. While I want science and reason to be a significant driver to policies, it is equally as important to understand the shortcoming and limitations. At any point in time, this is the "best we know" but that "best we know" may change radically with the next study or the next variant, etc. That's why while I believe the cost benefit of vaccination is there, I am not in favor of government mandates.

Regarding complexity and nuance, we can look no further than the even the vaccinated vs. unvaccinated debate. Turns out vaccinated isn't a single block, efficacy, likelihood to get re-infected, likelihood to transmit it to other people, vary on a set of conditions, one of them being how long ago you were vaccinated. So, we are trying to turn everything into "everybody just do this" when it's not quite that simple.

A counterpoint I would make additions to the scientific body of knowledge are made based on consensus, not absolute universal acceptance. So, while 97% of the doctors in the U.S. are vaccinated that leaves 3% that choose to not be. So, you will always find people that don't agree with the general opinion, even with the realm of science and these comments / videos then get used not by people that actively understand and participate in the scientific debate, but as validation of their bias/worldview.

The point that struck me, and i am deducing this from what she said. All of the scientists that are involved with this from Fauci on down were likely well aware that this vaccine was never going to prevent the spread to the degree they indicated it would before it was given to the first person.

According to this lady the vaccine was never designed to prevent spread only to mitigate symptoms and lessen severity. It seems to me that they could have or should have said that up front given the history of working with other vaccines (particularly DTAP) and what we have learned in the past. I thought the analogy to Pertussis was interesting.

But we all know that being completely transparent won’t promote the outcome they want, so i get why they don’t. However, that fuels distrust. Her opening remark was she belives the vaccine mandates are wrong and that government intentionally paints a false narrative in order to take away your choice of freedom. The idea is if you knew what they knew you might make a different decision than you otherwise would. She was very forthright that the vaccines do help with most people in limiting severity of disease, so to me, she is not anti-vaccine.

One thing that i would like to know “the real truth” on, whatever that is, is the idea that actually getting a vaccine for one variant actually could harm you down the road as future variants emerge. She cited the flu as an example and stated that was true and it will likely be true for Covid.
 
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My point is that people aren’t listening to infectious disease type of doctors. They’re finding a study online or listening to a podcast or even a friend that’s a pediatrician, nurse, or pharmacist and going based off of that .

Do you have any other response to the video besides a thumbs up? This is a PhD cellular biologist who does this for a living and deals with infectious disease. What if anything, do you find wrong with what she said?
 
But we all know that being completely transparent won’t promote the outcome they want, so i get why they don’t. However, that fuels distrust
Totally agree.

I don't want to let science and government off the hook there ("so I get why they don't"). For trust to be there, they absolutely need to be transparent and acknowledge the limitations of what they know and what they don't. The whole thing is about risk management.

The next step then is to make "principled" choices. By that, I mean, because of the situation of uncertainty and ambiguity, you cannot make a decision 100% based on partial or incomplete information. You have to acknowledge you may be wrong and choose a cost of failure of both a) inaction b) the action you think you should take. And the decisions need to be made based on clearly defined principles (preventing the loss of life, protecting the healthcare system, whatever that may be that drives the choices) and these need to consistent and understood. As much in favor of vaccination as I currently am, I felt like the goalposts kept moving last year with lockdowns for instance (was no longer about protection of the healthcare system). So, hard to generate trust if you don't acknowledge you are doing the best under conditions of uncertainty, explain the principles behind your decision making, and clearly delineate the goal you are after.

I think the issue is uncertainty is not accepted very well by people. It seems "weak". So, like you said, there's kind of a condescending processing and presentation of information to push people to accept it.
 
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Do you have any other response to the video besides a thumbs up? This is a PhD cellular biologist who does this for a living and deals with infectious disease. What if anything, do you find wrong with what she said?
She’s spitting untruths within the first minute so…to say the vaccines do nothing to stop the spread is a flat out lie, so everything after that has zero credibility.
 
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