Hydroxychloroquine to be made OTC today?

[birdmanCU]

You're getting into a political discussion here.
I just want to report on the scientific stuff I've seen.

I don't remember (could be wrong ) that BLM protests was a good idea with regards to COVID. Neither are big family gatherings, parties, bars, Sturgis etc etc. I think everyone agrees that that is inarguable.

We as a society can sit here and play pick your sources, but those I listed above are the most esteemed sources out there. I don't hear any other esteemed sources disagreeing with those listed above at this point. If we can't trust those folks, I'm not sure who we can.

You say: those I listed above those I listed above "are the most esteemed sources out there". And you know this because? that's what your media are telling you. I don't hear any other esteemed sources disagreeing with those listed above at this point. Of course you don't. You limit yourself to the media you prefer to tell you what you want to hear.

 

[Cleopatrick2001]

I’ll pass along what two of my friends told me a few weeks ago. HQ does offer some real benefits to treating and protecting against Covid as long as it’s used in the early stages and in conjunction with other drugs as mentioned in this thread. The side effects are very rare but you should still get a Dr’s approval before taking. They admitted that one of the reasons it’s getting so much pushback is bc it’s so inexpensive and there’s not a lot of money to be made on it as opposed to other drugs such as Remdesivir.

Fwiw my two friends are both VP’s at Novartis. Novartis donated 3 million HQ pills for research back in March/April. That said, one of them specializes in bio similars for Oncology and the other in development of new drugs but I promise they talk to the people at Novartis that are in the know.

 

[CUFever91]

those I listed above those I listed above "are the most esteemed sources out there". And you know this because? that's what your media are telling you. I don't hear any other esteemed sources disagreeing with those listed above at this point. Of course you don't. You limit yourself to the media you prefer to tell you what you want to hear.

It's not arguable.
I think the one looking for sources to agree with himself is you.

My mother was a chemist who worked in research at Emory University in Atlanta and in conjunction with some CDC folks. I know plenty about CDC.

And - I don't do media. I read articles straight from the source. Siting Real Clear Politics is not the best scientific unbiased source in the world you know?

 

[CU91ENGR]

Your problem is you refuse to have an open mind about anything related to HQ.

I'm fully willing to accept that HQ offers no benefit when given in the late stages of Covid.

A lot of the research you are referring to was given to patients in a hail Mary attempt.

I'm also willing to accept that many doctors have had tremendous success when they have started HQ early when given with zinc and a Z pack.

It is not a dangerous drug with harmful side effects as it has been around for 50 years with no track record of causing heart problems. It is similar to saying tylenol is lethal because a few people had bad side effects.

Can I ask why you are so against HQ if given early? There is a study endorsed by the NHC from 2006 that clearly states HQ was an effective and recommended treated for SARS. Fauci himself was the director then.

Open your mind a little and quit politicizing the virus.

Even if it helps a little is it not worth it?

I don't know...maybe because the FDA, WHO, the EU, USNIH, etc. have all said it is ineffective and does have some side effect risks for those with heart problems. I assume from your statement that it is not a dangerous drug and has no track record in 50 years for causing heart problems that you are a health professional. Or did you just stay at a Holiday Inn last night like so many braniacs on here?

Here's the list of side effects for you, since you think this drug is completely harmless: https://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-5482/hydroxychloroquine-oral/details. A doctor prescribes a drug when he/she thinks that the benefits outweigh the risks.

 

[birdmanCU]

It's not arguable.
I think the one looking for sources to agree with himself is you.

My mother was a chemist who worked in research at Emory University in Atlanta and in conjunction with some CDC folks. I know plenty about CDC.

And - I don't do media. I read articles straight from the source. Siting Real Clear Politics is not the best scientific unbiased source in the world you know?

SMH I give up since "It's not arguable" I recently stayed at a Holiday Inn too !

 

[CU91ENGR]

People in the world are many more times likely to die from malaria than Covid and the death toll from Malaria is many times higher

So, there were 405,000 deaths from malaria in 2018 and 416,000 worldwide in 2017. My math can be a little fuzzy, but me thinks that 811,000 Covid-19 deaths in less than a year beats 416,000?

 

[CUFever91]

SMH I give up since "It's not arguable" I recently stayed at a Holiday Inn too !

You sound like a very stable genius.

 

[CU91ENGR]

No, but by only listening to your professional and/or media sources, and discounting everyone else's.

I'm listening to the one's that make the rules for the countries. I'd say those are the most important.

 

[firegiver]

View embedded media

View embedded media

So I guess my question for you is: do you think this is enough evidence to use one loved one? I ask because I'd be very hesitant to trust some random avatars take on the internet over peer reviewed science.

 

[CU91ENGR]

I’ll take a shot at this. In my ICU the average BMI of the patients with COVID is almost 40. Nationally the median death age is 78-79. People 79 and older only make up 10% of the population of the US. The mean age of death for men and women respectively from all causes in the US is 76 and 81. So, the virus (in general) kills the old and unhealthy (obese).

So, the 37% of Americans who are obese or the 10% who are old don't matter. I see. Looking at SC's DHEC numbers recently, there between 15% and 25% of the deaths have been "middle-aged".

 

[CU91ENGR]

I’ll pass along what two of my friends told me a few weeks ago. HQ does offer some real benefits to treating and protecting against Covid as long as it’s used in the early stages and in conjunction with other drugs as mentioned in this thread. The side effects are very rare but you should still get a Dr’s approval before taking. They admitted that one of the reasons it’s getting so much pushback is bc it’s so inexpensive and there’s not a lot of money to be made on it as opposed to other drugs such as Remdesivir.

Fwiw my two friends are both VP’s at Novartis. Novartis donated 3 million HQ pills for research back in March/April. That said, one of them specializes in bio similars for Oncology and the other in development of new drugs but I promise they talk to the people at Novartis that are in the know.

So, Novartis discontinued its clinical trial even though they know it works. Yeah, ok.

 

[Tigerbomb]

I don't know...maybe because the FDA, WHO, the EU, USNIH, etc. have all said it is ineffective and does have some side effect risks for those with heart problems. I assume from your statement that it is not a dangerous drug and has no track record in 50 years for causing heart problems that you are a health professional. Or did you just stay at a Holiday Inn last night like so many braniacs on here?

Here's the list of side effects for you, since you think this drug is completely harmless: https://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-5482/hydroxychloroquine-oral/details. A doctor prescribes a drug when he/she thinks that the benefits outweigh the risks.

Guess which drug this is:

Upset stomach, nausea, vomiting, headache, diarrhea, constipation, dizziness, or drowsiness may occur. If any of these effects persist or worsen, tell your doctor or pharmacist promptly.

If your doctor has directed you to use this medication, remember that he or she has judged that the benefit to you is greater than the risk of side effects. Many people using this medication do not have serious side effects.

This medication may raise your blood pressure. Check your blood pressure regularly and tell your doctor if the results are high.

Tell your doctor right away if any of these serious side effects occur: easy bruising/bleeding, hearing changes (such as ringing in the ears), mental/mood changes, unexplained stiff neck, signs of kidney problems (such as change in the amount of urine), vision changes, symptoms of heart failure (such as swelling ankles/feet, unusual tiredness, unusual/sudden weight gain).

This drug may rarely cause serious (possibly fatal) liver disease. Get medical help right away if you have any symptoms of liver damage, including: dark urine, persistent nausea/vomiting/loss of appetite, stomach/abdominal pain, yellowing eyes/skin.

A very serious allergic reaction to this drug is rare. However, get medical help right away if you notice any symptoms of a serious allergic reaction, including: rash, itching/swelling (especially of the face/tongue/throat), severe dizziness, trouble breathing.

This is not a complete list of possible side effects. If you notice other effects not listed above, contact your doctor or pharmacist.

 

[Tigerbomb]

So, the 37% of Americans who are obese or the 10% who are old don't matter. I see. Looking at SC's DHEC numbers recently, there between 15% and 25% of the deaths have been "middle-aged".

Wrong.

87% of deaths are from 65 or older.

68% of deaths from 75 or older.

You are just ignorant.

 

[clemben]

What is the latest scientific research? July 23rd they published this study: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2019014
And now you all have to geek out on the science--haha:
"A total of 667 patients underwent randomization; 504 patients had confirmed Covid-19 and were included in the modified intention-to-treat analysis. As compared with standard care, the proportional odds of having a higher score on the seven-point ordinal scale at 15 days was not affected by either hydroxychloroquine alone (odds ratio, 1.21; 95% confidence interval [CI], 0.69 to 2.11; P=1.00) or hydroxychloroquine plus azithromycin (odds ratio, 0.99; 95% CI, 0.57 to 1.73; P=1.00)."

What does it mean? "Among patients hospitalized with mild-to-moderate Covid-19, the use of hydroxychloroquine, alone or with azithromycin, did not improve clinical status at 15 days as compared with standard care."
Now this is an observational study--more research is needed to reach the gold standard of double blind clinical trials. But sorry--it blasts any anecdotal evidence out of the water.

Conclusion?? Hydroxy doesn't do jack. Nothing wrong with taking some zinc though if it makes you feel better...just don't act like it is some super cure the govt is suppressing for political ends (you can feel that way but there isn't any evidence to support it).

But what about the French study of 80 patients (found here: https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/COVID-IHU-2-1.pdf)? Good question, which shows how the scientific method should work. That paper was pulled bc of the methodology and other research that attempted to replicate found it was rubbish (you can read that here: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0399077X20300858?via%3Dihub). That paper says the same as the latest research cited above: "In summary, despite a reported antiviral activity of chloroquine against COVID-19 in vitro, we found no evidence of a strong antiviral activity or clinical benefit of the combination of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin for the treatment of our hospitalised patients with severe COVID-19. Ongoing randomised clinical trials with hydroxychloroquine should provide a definitive answer regarding the alleged efficacy of this combination and will assess its safety."

You can check out all the existing studies here: https://www.goodrx.com/blog/coronavirus-medicine-chloroquine-hydroxychloroquine-as-covid19-treatment/#prevention
There are like 50 studies in the pipeline so we will learn more (the current treatment consensus is to use steroids anyway), but the further you move away from the anecdotal the more obvious it is that hydroxy doesn't do anything beyond normal care.

The word 'cure' shouldn't be used here--but it has been used in treatment all over the country (and here I would note that there are actual cases of documented serious heart rhythm problems and other safety issues, including blood and lymph system disorders, kidney injuries, and liver problems and failure in patients, kill children who ingest, eye/vision problems, but it has been used for a long time to treat lupus and malaria).

There is evidence to suggest (and I think more research needs to be done here) that: "Under closer scrutiny, however, the potential for cardiac toxic effects and overall adverse outcomes have been emphasized, especially in persons with underlying coexisting conditions that increase the risk of severe Covid-19. Boulware et al. report frequent mild side effects of hydroxychloroquine, but cardiac toxic effects could not be assessed." https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2020388

Meaning that its usage could actually increase risk and doctors would potentially be hurting patients by letting them take it. This is specific to the inflammation present with COVID and those risks above would be the normal risks that someone taking it for lupus would take. So again, got to be careful if you have covid and don't have to be with lupus. That should clear everything up, right?

Also, this thread is incredibly depressing...

 

[CU91ENGR]

Wrong.

87% of deaths are from 65 or older.

68% of deaths from 75 or older.

You are just ignorant.

Go look at this past week's SC DHEC reports, and you will see what I was referring to. Or is the word "recently" confusing for you?

 

[dfrctigersc]

BTW... My father is a retired pharmacist. He insists you can compound it using OTC vitamins and supplements. He’s been out of the game for a while, but he’s baffled by the controversy over HCQ.

We gave it to the masses in the military, the controversy is a joke. I'm quite sure we will have few in this thread that have had deadly experiences with it.

 

[TigerCaper]

You're getting into a political discussion here.
I just want to report on the scientific stuff I've seen.

I don't remember (could be wrong ) that BLM protests was a good idea with regards to COVID. Neither are big family gatherings, parties, bars, Sturgis etc etc. I think everyone agrees that that is inarguable.

We as a society can sit here and play pick your sources, but those I listed above are the most esteemed sources out there. I don't hear any other esteemed sources disagreeing with those listed above at this point. If we can't trust those folks, I'm not sure who we can.

Actually, I am not trying to be political at all. I am equally disgusted by the politician's on both sides of the aisle. And I suspect that a large part of the reason the science became political is because Trump started interjecting himself in the scientific discussion. It is a good lesson as to why politicians should never do that.

 

[CU91ENGR]

Wrong.

87% of deaths are from 65 or older.

68% of deaths from 75 or older.

You are just ignorant.

Just to make it easy for you since you obviously can't navigate the SC DHEC site, here's the last week death totals in SC:
August 16 - 2 out of 9 deaths were middle-aged = 22.2%
August 17 - 4 out of 20 deaths were middle-aged = 20%
August 18 - 10 out of 47 deaths were middle-aged = 21.3%
August 19 - 3 out of 17 deaths were middle-aged = 17.6%
August 20 - 9 out of 42 deaths were middle-aged = 21.4%
August 21 - 8 out of 52 deaths were middle-aged = 15.4%
August 22 - 8 out of 33 deaths were middle-aged = 24.2%
That's a total of 44 out of 220 deaths that were middle aged = 20%

Just so you know, "middle-aged" is defined as between 35 and 64 by SC DHEC

So, dipsh^&, remind me again what was off in my statement and how dumb I am? Or just go change the narrative like I'm sure you will.

 

[TigerCaper]

What is the latest scientific research? July 23rd they published this study: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2019014
And now you all have to geek out on the science--haha:
"A total of 667 patients underwent randomization; 504 patients had confirmed Covid-19 and were included in the modified intention-to-treat analysis. As compared with standard care, the proportional odds of having a higher score on the seven-point ordinal scale at 15 days was not affected by either hydroxychloroquine alone (odds ratio, 1.21; 95% confidence interval [CI], 0.69 to 2.11; P=1.00) or hydroxychloroquine plus azithromycin (odds ratio, 0.99; 95% CI, 0.57 to 1.73; P=1.00)."

What does it mean? "Among patients hospitalized with mild-to-moderate Covid-19, the use of hydroxychloroquine, alone or with azithromycin, did not improve clinical status at 15 days as compared with standard care."
Now this is an observational study--more research is needed to reach the gold standard of double blind clinical trials. But sorry--it blasts any anecdotal evidence out of the water.

Conclusion?? Hydroxy doesn't do jack. Nothing wrong with taking some zinc though if it makes you feel better...just don't act like it is some super cure the govt is suppressing for political ends (you can feel that way but there isn't any evidence to support it).

But what about the French study of 80 patients (found here: https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/COVID-IHU-2-1.pdf)? Good question, which shows how the scientific method should work. That paper was pulled bc of the methodology and other research that attempted to replicate found it was rubbish (you can read that here: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0399077X20300858?via%3Dihub). That paper says the same as the latest research cited above: "In summary, despite a reported antiviral activity of chloroquine against COVID-19 in vitro, we found no evidence of a strong antiviral activity or clinical benefit of the combination of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin for the treatment of our hospitalised patients with severe COVID-19. Ongoing randomised clinical trials with hydroxychloroquine should provide a definitive answer regarding the alleged efficacy of this combination and will assess its safety."

You can check out all the existing studies here: https://www.goodrx.com/blog/coronavirus-medicine-chloroquine-hydroxychloroquine-as-covid19-treatment/#prevention
There are like 50 studies in the pipeline so we will learn more (the current treatment consensus is to use steroids anyway), but the further you move away from the anecdotal the more obvious it is that hydroxy doesn't do anything beyond normal care.

The word 'cure' shouldn't be used here--but it has been used in treatment all over the country (and here I would note that there are actual cases of documented serious heart rhythm problems and other safety issues, including blood and lymph system disorders, kidney injuries, and liver problems and failure in patients, kill children who ingest, eye/vision problems, but it has been used for a long time to treat lupus and malaria).

There is evidence to suggest (and I think more research needs to be done here) that: "Under closer scrutiny, however, the potential for cardiac toxic effects and overall adverse outcomes have been emphasized, especially in persons with underlying coexisting conditions that increase the risk of severe Covid-19. Boulware et al. report frequent mild side effects of hydroxychloroquine, but cardiac toxic effects could not be assessed." https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2020388

Meaning that its usage could actually increase risk and doctors would potentially be hurting patients by letting them take it. This is specific to the inflammation present with COVID and those risks above would be the normal risks that someone taking it for lupus would take. So again, got to be careful if you have covid and don't have to be with lupus. That should clear everything up, right?

Also, this thread is incredibly depressing...

Thanks for sharing. This is exactly the type of info I was seeking. From what I can glean, it appears that essentially everyone agrees that hydroxy alone does essentially nothing. Some, however, claim it is effective when combined with zinc because it allows the zinc to be more effective if taken early in the illness. Do you know if such studies been done yet in the USA? How about in other countries? Is the article on Hatfill just full of bunk?

 

[Cleopatrick2001]

So, Novartis discontinued its clinical trial even though they know it works. Yeah, ok.

They actually did mention they shutdown their big trials do to the lead investigators recommendation but they still have some small trials still going. It had something to do with getting enough patients to participate especially a certain type of patient which is why they’re only conducting small trials now.

 

[TigerCaper]

They actually did mention they shutdown their big trials do to the lead investigators recommendation but they still have some small trials still going. It had something to do with getting enough patients to participate especially a certain type of patient which is why they’re only conducting small trials now.

The article I cite above about Hatfill actually mentions the difficulty in finding patients for trials due to the publicity and hue and cry on hydroxy.

Note that Novartis is a Swiss company. If the article above by Hatfill is truthful, then Switzerland is back to using hydroxy. I googled that to see if it is true, but could not find anything.

 

[ayerscm79]

So, the 37% of Americans who are obese or the 10% who are old don't matter. I see. Looking at SC's DHEC numbers recently, there between 15% and 25% of the deaths have been "middle-aged".

I never said they didn’t matter. These individuals are at high risk for all kinds of diseases. Not just COVID. What about the data the CDC released two weeks ago a stating that depression, anxiety and suicidal ideation is up 4x in our teen population and 3x the normal average in 25-44yo? Or maybe the fact that suicides are way up in all age groups. What about individuals who are missing cancer screenings? What about the significant disruptions to care for HIV, TB and malaria programs internationally. TB killed 1.5 million last year alone. So it’s not that I don’t care about old or obese people, but I have to assess risk in my job differently than you do. Likely many more people will die from COVID disruptions than the disease itself. So be careful about challenging my beliefs in this matter. I’m way more informed than you are.

 

[TigerCaper]

The article I cite above about Hatfill actually mentions the difficulty in finding patients for trials due to the publicity and hue and cry on hydroxy.

Note that Novartis is a Swiss company. If the article above by Hatfill is truthful, then Switzerland is back to using hydroxy. I googled that to see if it is true, but could not find anything.

Here is the actual quote by Hatfill:

However, the damage from the biased media storm was done and it was long-lasting. Continuing patient enrollment needed for early-use clinical trials of hydroxychloroquine dried up within a week. Patients were afraid to take the drug, doctors became afraid to prescribe it, pharmacies refused to fill prescriptions, and in a rush of incompetent analysis and non-existent senior leadership, the FDA revoked its Emergency Use Authorization for the drug.

 

[scartiger]

LOL At the Democratic Party.

 

[CU91ENGR]

I never said they didn’t matter. These individuals are at high risk for all kinds of diseases. Not just COVID. What about the data the CDC released two weeks ago a stating that depression, anxiety and suicidal ideation is up 4x in our teen population and 3x the normal average in 25-44yo? Or maybe the fact that suicides are way up in all age groups. What about individuals who are missing cancer screenings? What about the significant disruptions to care for HIV, TB and malaria programs internationally. TB killed 1.5 million last year alone. So it’s not that I don’t care about old or obese people, but I have to assess risk in my job differently than you do. Likely many more people will die from COVID disruptions than the disease itself. So be careful about challenging my beliefs in this matter. I’m way more informed than you are.

What makes you think you're "way" more informed than me? Because I have "engr" in my handle? Does that mean I'm an engineer? I am very well connected in the medical profession...and I'll leave it at that. Work with hospitalists, ER doctors, surgeons, etc. on a daily basis. Since you're in the medical field, you should also know that about 75% of American deaths per year are in people over the age of 65. Not that far off the percentages we see in Covid-19 deaths.

 

[Tigerbomb]

Just to make it easy for you since you obviously can't navigate the SC DHEC site, here's the last week death totals in SC:
August 16 - 2 out of 9 deaths were middle-aged = 22.2%
August 17 - 4 out of 20 deaths were middle-aged = 20%
August 18 - 10 out of 47 deaths were middle-aged = 21.3%
August 19 - 3 out of 17 deaths were middle-aged = 17.6%
August 20 - 9 out of 42 deaths were middle-aged = 21.4%
August 21 - 8 out of 52 deaths were middle-aged = 15.4%
August 22 - 8 out of 33 deaths were middle-aged = 24.2%
That's a total of 44 out of 220 deaths that were middle aged = 20%

Just so you know, "middle-aged" is defined as between 35 and 64 by SC DHEC

So, dipsh^&, remind me again what was off in my statement and how dumb I am? Or just go change the narrative like I'm sure you will.

Yes, let's take a one week snapshot and state it as what the 6 month total implies.

61-70: 19.3%
71-80: 28.6%
81+: 39.1%

Median age: 77 yrs

Please just stop with the uniformed fear mongering.

 

[CU91ENGR]

Yes, let's take a one week snapshot and state it as what the 6 month total implies.

61-70: 19.3%
71-80: 28.6%
81+: 39.1%

Median age: 77 yrs

Please just stop with the uniformed fear mongering.

So, just ignore the fact that I said "recently", huh? The average age of Covid-19 deaths has been lowering in the last month or so.

 

[ayerscm79]

What makes you think you're "way" more informed than me? Because I have "engr" in my handle? Does that mean I'm an engineer? I am very well connected in the medical profession...and I'll leave it at that. Work with hospitalists, ER doctors, surgeons, etc. on a daily basis. Since you're in the medical field, you should also know that about 75% of American deaths per year are in people over the age of 65. Not that far off the percentages we see in Covid-19 deaths.

I don’t just work with ER doctors and surgeons I am a surgeon. So......yeah, it’s a bit different situation than your in. To your second point, 75% of deaths are over the age of 65 is actually a lot different and supports my point more than yours since 30% of the population is older than 65. That’s a massive difference.

 

[CU91ENGR]

I don’t just work with ER doctors and surgeons I am a surgeon. So......yeah, it’s a bit different situation than your in. To your second point, 75% of deaths are over the age of 65 is actually a lot different and supports my point more than yours since 30% of the population is older than 65. That’s a massive difference.

Again, you're making assumptions as to what I actually do and what situation "you're" in.

 

[appalachiatiger]

You must not be paying very close attention if you DON’T think the dems want to turn this great country into Communist China: Western hemisphere version. Why else would Joe Biden have his SON’s business partners in China manufacture this virus??

i have never looked into the what the billion dollars biden walked away from china with

wonder why china gave him a billion dollars?

 

[appalachiatiger]

Again, you're making assumptions as to what I actually do and what situation "you're" in.

let me help

kinda like if you bake the bread you know what you put in it

 

[appalachiatiger]

If you took it for a LONG period of time in high doses, there’s like a 1% chance you could go blind.

well

if you do something else for a long period of time

heard you can go blind for that too

 

[appalachiatiger]

why is everyone so pissed that it works

or is fighting so hard to say it doesnt

weird

 

[jeffcoat]

Let's see: Brazil, Spain and Italy were/are users. How did that work out for them?

You're really bad at reading graphs for a ME. It's embrarrasing. Spain & Italy were at the top of the list for NOT using HQL.

 

[ayerscm79]

Again, you're making assumptions as to what I actually do and what situation "you're" in.

Yes, my assumption is your are not a physician. I believe I’m correct. Also, I noticed you never commented on the impact of others due to the lockdown I made earlier. I figured you may not be equipped to make a judgment in this area. Maybe I’m right. If you were, you would not ‘die’ on this hill.

 

[RicheClemson]

So I guess my question for you is: do you think this is enough evidence to use one loved one? I ask because I'd be very hesitant to trust some random avatars take on the internet over peer reviewed science.

Yes, if taken in the correct and recommended doses. Take with Zinc and Vitamin D. Get some sun. Go outside. Be human.
I don't f-ing know. All I know is that it's so political that it makes me wonder. Then I see Yale PhD's and other nations recommending it and using it. So weird that science now is so political. If they sale Quinine on Amazon, I'm pretty sure it's safe. They do not want that liability. May want to double the dosage slowly. Who knows? I experiment on stuff a lot. I had high Cholesterol and bad liver enzymes since in college. I started taking 2 Garlic supplements and other supplements (Gaia Liver Care, Himalayan Liver Care, NAC, Curcumin, Brown Seaweed Extract, Berberine, Ashwagandha, Hesperdin) and my levels are normal. I get tested every 6 months. And they have been normal levels for over 4 years and I drink like a fish. So now I really question big Pharma.

 

[jonalexand1]

Please define what "many" means to you. Also, please speculate on how many doctors prescribe HCQ to their patients without understanding their patients "cardiac conditions". I have seen many doctors dismiss this risk because that is one of the conditions doctors consider before prescribing HCQ.

you’re correct in doctors checking for heart issues before prescribing it. I’m putting it into the context where it’s over the counter...someone with a heart issue may take it without consulting a doctor and/or going through the typical medical screening prior to getting it and that is where the real potential danger enters the equation.

 

[clemben]

Thanks for sharing. This is exactly the type of info I was seeking. From what I can glean, it appears that essentially everyone agrees that hydroxy alone does essentially nothing. Some, however, claim it is effective when combined with zinc because it allows the zinc to be more effective if taken early in the illness. Do you know if such studies been done yet in the USA? How about in other countries? Is the article on Hatfill just full of bunk?

Thanks for the thoughtful response--I appreciate it. So azithromycin is zithromax or commonly known as a Z-pak. That was from the first study.

Here is an ongoing study with zinc--not completed yet: https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04370782

I don't think we have enough evidence to conclusively say, but I don't think there is any evidence that zinc can change hydroxy itself. I've never read anything myself. Zinc is fine to take but isn't a miracle cure for any virus. I'll wait for more evidence but it would be absolutely shocking for zinc to change the efficacy of hydroxy.

Here is one from Spain on hydroxy not working: https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciaa1009/5872589

There is some good news. Here is a study showing "the use of dexamethasone resulted in lower 28-day mortality among those who were receiving either invasive mechanical ventilation or oxygen alone at randomization but not among those receiving no respiratory support." https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2021436?query=featured_home

Most doctors I have personally talked to who treat patients have moved on to various steriods and completely left hydroxy.

 

[BigTimeTiger]

Hey, @BigTimeTiger, who's the dumbarse? People like you believing the fake tweet was real.

I just said I didn’t believe your dumbass

 

[BigTimeTiger]

Respectfully, I believe you are only making a fool of yourself.

Making? That idiot was born a fool!