I will be shocked if this season goes off as planned

[TigerDoc]

It’s non-vaxxed and it’s not even close. The ratio skews more to non vaxxed the further up the chain you go as well. Hospital-ICU-vent.

Hopefully delta is the fast mover it was in India and that by mid/late September we are past it.

vaccines are still working very well against severe infection on the whole.

Just looking at the numbers and comparing to India, we should see Delta peak between now and Labor Day. Cases should fall off dramatically by the end of September. Of note but not being discussed is the mortality rate of Delta, which appears to be much lower.

To add to the mask discussion, I am a conservative Republican Christian. I got vaccinated as soon as I could, but I will only wear a mask where required. I got vaccinated to maintain my personal liberty, and I will not wear a mask where I do not have to.

Another clarification, I am not a Trump fan, not at all. His intentions were good, but he is a TERRIBLE leader. The way he handled himself throughout his Presidency was worse than a kindergartner on a playgroun.

 

[Esso Porch]

Harvard doctor on now talking about the focus needs to be on therapeutics and not so much on vaccine

I actually think that’s correct and I’m pro-vaccine. However the people who are going to get vaccinated, by and large, have gotten vaccinated. Therefore we need to shift the focus to rapidly treating the infected so that they don’t deteriorate and have long ICU stays and hold beds for extended periods of time

 

[harristeeter]

Just looking at the numbers and comparing to India, we should see Delta peak between now and Labor Day. Cases should fall off dramatically by the end of September. Of note but not being discussed is the mortality rate of Delta, which appears to be much lower.

Pretty much what Dr Gottlieb said last Monday. Thank you for your service.

 

[Allornothing]

I'm a hospital physician, ER and hospitalist, and let me say I'm not an alarmist. I've been skeptical of media overhype of this virus from the beginning. And I was 100% for opening everything and ending mask mandates. BUT this delta variant has been a game changer. We are in the middle of the surge crisis we all feared 18 months. My hospital is full of Covid patients. Our ER and every major ER in our area is on diversion. There are NO open ICU beds in the 7 hospital MUSC system that I work in. It is a crisis across the state. I'm afraid it is only a matter of time until the government feels they need to do something. I hate it and really want life to go on but it's hard to see them not doing anything.

Hey doc, I have a question for you if you have the time to respond.

You say you're not an "alarmist", yet you seem to be alarmed...but I digress.

I would just like for you to respond to my particular situation. No one in my household of 4 has been vaccinated. This COVID crap has been around for at 18 months, and if the real truth ever comes out, closer to two years.

How would you explain none of us being tested positive for the virus (I think my wife had it in Feb of last year before there were even test)? We are led to believe by our "leaders" that everyone is going to get this if we don't get the shot.

Why have I not already got the virus? Within a week of this virus starting, I was living my life as normal. I obeyed the directives, but only wore a mask where it was mandatory. I'm over 50, overweight, and have other issues, but I have never had Covid.

What say you?

 

[Howard's Jock]

Not at all my MAGA terrorists sympathizer friend after all Trump or Biden had nothing to do with the actually creation of the vaccine.

Actually I am more concerned for Clemson being vaccinated so they can win the ship this year. Everyone else who is Anti vaxx I can only hope they suffer the consequences and share it on social media like Radical catholic Raymond Burke 😈

what consequences are we talking here?

 

[Howard's Jock]

Hey doc, I have a question for you if you have the time to respond.

You say you're not an "alarmist", yet you seem to be alarmed...but I digress.

I would just like for you to respond to my particular situation. No one in my household of 4 has been vaccinated. This COVID crap has been around for at 18 months, and if the real truth ever comes out, closer to two years.

How would you explain none of us being tested positive for the virus (I think my wife had it in Feb of last year before there were even test)? We are led to believe by our "leaders" that everyone is going to get this if we don't get the shot.

Why have I not already got the virus? Within a week of this virus starting, I was living my life as normal. I obeyed the directives, but only wore a mask where it was mandatory. I'm over 50, overweight, and have other issues, but I have never had Covid.

What say you?

again, being alarmed doesnt mean you are an alarmist

 

[jimbob1019]

It's not gloating. It's frustration.

Oh no bud…it ain’t frustration…the vaxxers love every minute of it

 

[Allornothing]

again, being alarmed doesnt mean you are an alarmist

So, you can be alarmed by something, and spread it to the masses, but not be "alarmist"?

GOT IT!

 

[Jwilliamsiii]

Not trying to be a jerk, but I would assume that masking,distancing,additional sanitation practices, checking temps etc probably lead to a big reduction in influenza.

Maybe, but let’s be honest, kids don’t social distance. Not high school kids, not college kids. Kids still kiss, even with herpes on their face. Still bump uglies. Amazing that kids didn’t showup at pediatrics with the flu this past year. No conspiracy, just very surprising.

 

[Howard's Jock]

So, you can be alarmed by something, and spread it to the masses, but not be "alarmist"?

GOT IT!

he was stating facts of his life or so i thought...this topic is so divisive its really sad...have a good one

 

[UpstateTgrFan]

So, you can be alarmed by something, and spread it to the masses, but not be "alarmist"?

GOT IT!

An “alarmist” is a Chicken Little, who overstates a threat to others. This dude is an MD that’s relaying concerning information to you that he is witnessing with his own two eyes.

 

[Howard's Jock]

An “alarmist” is a Chicken Little, who overstates a threat to others. This dude is an MD that’s relaying concerning information to you that he is witnessing with his own two eyes.

its really telling that he passes on meaningful info and we get caught up on semantics over a meaningless segment of his post...welcome to America

 

[Orange-Addict]

You say you’re not an alarmist yet everything about your post says otherwise…

I'm just telling you what I'm seeing. I guess I meant historically I have not been an alarmist. I used to think most younger people would be fine if they got it but this delta variant seems different.

 

[tigers4381]

Hey doc, I have a question for you if you have the time to respond.

You say you're not an "alarmist", yet you seem to be alarmed...but I digress.

I would just like for you to respond to my particular situation. No one in my household of 4 has been vaccinated. This COVID crap has been around for at 18 months, and if the real truth ever comes out, closer to two years.

How would you explain none of us being tested positive for the virus (I think my wife had it in Feb of last year before there were even test)? We are led to believe by our "leaders" that everyone is going to get this if we don't get the shot.

Why have I not already got the virus? Within a week of this virus starting, I was living my life as normal. I obeyed the directives, but only wore a mask where it was mandatory. I'm over 50, overweight, and have other issues, but I have never had Covid.

What say you?

LOL. What in the hell?

 

[jimbob1019]

It's extreme frustration. I have tried to have rational discussions with unvaccinated folks including people who I work with. Now I'm watching them have close family members get sucks and they are all shocked and begging for prayers.

Really? Bc most of the people I know are unvaccinated & have no intention getting the shot…or multiple shots…or multiple shots plus the booster…& so on & so forth…

 

[clemsonu0219]

This thread actually hasn’t been too bad. Especially if people ignore a few posters.

Makes me hopeful.

Im deeply saddened that our ICU’s seem to be becoming a bit overloaded but it seems that the data suggests that we are at or near the peak. Couple that with the fact that the CFR seems to be significantly lower (and I’m sure much of that is from interventions/improvements/etc).

It’s not surprising that, at least for the current waves/variants, that the majority of Hospitalized people are Unvaxxed. That’s exactly what was predicted and what any reasonable person would predict simply bc the Vax was specifically designed to lessen Severe Symptoms and, by much accounting, seems to have been successful there in the short term.

Moving forward, I’m afraid that the national strategy will have to move to constant “boosters” in order to keep variants at bay (whether caused by Vax or Unvax, who knows, Respiratory Viruses mutate) and the general public is not going to do it. Meaning, I think the “fully Vaxxed” rates will only go down as variants shift and boosters count towards the “fully vaxxed” figure.

It’s here to stay, though I hope I’m wrong.

I also hope that people will begin to think more about their overall health in general. Proper diet, exercise, mitigate excess/unnecessary pharmacological interventions (talk with your Dr about it) and maintain community relationships with people who love and care for you.

 

[chipp1027]

You say you’re not an alarmist yet everything about your post says otherwise…

Calling an ER Doc an alarmist for him just sharing what he is seeing with his own eyes everyday at work is just ignorant.

I wish people that felt the same as you could go to work a few days with these Doctors and see these patients.

 

[SconnyTiger25]

It’s non-vaxxed and it’s not even close. The ratio skews more to non vaxxed the further up the chain you go as well. Hospital-ICU-vent.

Hopefully delta is the fast mover it was in India and that by mid/late September we are past it.

vaccines are still working very well against severe infection on the whole.

You know what is working even better?! Natural immunity and antibodies

 

[adgjunior]

Maybe, but let’s be honest, kids don’t social distance. Not high school kids, not college kids. Kids still kiss, even with herpes on their face. Still bump uglies. Amazing that kids didn’t showup at pediatrics with the flu this past year. No conspiracy, just very surprising.

I get my yearly physical in October. In 2020, my PA and myself were discussing Covid, etc and she stated that their office expected to see the smallest flu season ever due to Covid protocols. While masking and social distancing were major players, the biggest was the fact we were all drilled for months to “stay home if you don’t feel good”.

While the common flu can be spread prior to symptoms, we are most contagious a few days after onset. As we all know, in Covid society it was extremely taboo to leave the house with a fever, cough, etc. In short, sick people quarantined during the past year regardless of diagnosis.

When you couple that with hybrid/virtual learning, massive teleworking, reduced restaurant capacity, no public events with crowds, and other protocols, as you stated, the flu basically disappeared for the 2020-2021 season.

 

[wfurse09]

You say you’re not an alarmist yet everything about your post says otherwise…

That‘s probably because, though he is not normally an alarmist, the current situation alarms him.

 

[SconnyTiger25]

Doesn't seem like much really helps.
We titrate oxygen of course.
We still give Remdesivir though I haven't seen great results
We were using plasma and Actemra some but now a nationwide shortage so we have none.
We use decadron (steroid) for all who need oxygen.
We give most VitC, vit D, and zinc.

Time seems to be the biggest thing
It's frustrating to struggle so much to get them better!

Is Ivermectin not allowed in the ER? There are great results from it, yet no one ever talks about it

 

[adgjunior]

This thread actually hasn’t been too bad. Especially if people ignore a few posters.

Makes me hopeful.

I agree.

Every now and then we have one of these Covid threads that stay on topic and creates great discussion. Honestly, when the ones jump in to destroy the thread, if folks would just ignore them, it would continue to be fruitful.

I always learn something in these discussions and would like to think I contribute positively to them. I exit quickly when they become a political shit show.

 

[Jwilliamsiii]

I get my yearly physical in October. In 2020, my PA and myself were discussing Covid, etc and she stated that their office expected to see the smallest flu season ever due to Covid protocols. While masking and social distancing were major players, the biggest was the fact we were all drilled for months to “stay home if you don’t feel good”.

While the common flu can be spread prior to symptoms, we are most contagious a few days after onset. As we all know, in Covid society it was extremely taboo to leave the house with a fever, cough, etc. In short, sick people quarantined during the past year regardless of diagnosis.

When you couple that with hybrid/virtual learning, massive teleworking, reduced restaurant capacity, no public events with crowds, and other protocols, as you stated, the flu basically disappeared for the 2020-2021 season.

My kids were doing like reel skule with reele teachers. It was refreshing. One thing about it, our kids were safer last year with all COVID and no flu or rsv. Not so sure about the delta tho

 

[clemsonu96]

I'm a hospital physician, ER and hospitalist, and let me say I'm not an alarmist. I've been skeptical of media overhype of this virus from the beginning. And I was 100% for opening everything and ending mask mandates. BUT this delta variant has been a game changer. We are in the middle of the surge crisis we all feared 18 months. My hospital is full of Covid patients. Our ER and every major ER in our area is on diversion. There are NO open ICU beds in the 7 hospital MUSC system that I work in. It is a crisis across the state. I'm afraid it is only a matter of time until the government feels they need to do something. I hate it and really want life to go on but it's hard to see them not doing anything.

Funny, I sell 12 of the 13 protocol drugs for Covid and I haven’t seen an increase of demand. I cover the Carolinas, and parts of Georgia and Tennessee. I speak with MUSC personnel and haven’t heard of a crisis. I think people have a different understanding of that word nowadays. I’m not downplaying anything. Not saying what you say isn’t true. Just saying in 20 years of experience I usually see supply issues in product. I did last year but not yet this year. There is an increase of patients, but it’s far from a crisis.

 

[adgjunior]

My kids were doing like reel skule with reele teachers. It was refreshing.

My daughter goes to a private K-12 school with approximately 275 students. They were social distanced in class with masks in common areas. They never had to quarantine a grade. The only students that ever quarantined were due to after school athletic competitions or practices.

While they used CDC guidance, they relied on a local pediatrician to help prepare them and stayed in contact with him throughout the year. We were certainly blessed for her “normal” year.

 

[PartyLikeIts2016]

https://www.thestate.com/news/coronavirus/article253414480.html. This article is from 5 days ago. Todays numbers at Lexington Medical 175 admitted with Covid (previous record week after Xmas was around 145). >60 on ventilators. Admission has been steadily >80% of COVID not vaccinated and >90% in the ICU unvaccinated. Many much younger than previous waves including age 20s-40s otherwise healthy on ventilators. These are not made up numbers these are things I see. Last week in June Lexington Medical had 3 patients admitted to the hospital with COVID, we have not seen a plateau.

 

[harristeeter]

This thread actually hasn’t been too bad. Especially if people ignore a few posters.

Makes me hopeful.

Im deeply saddened that our ICU’s seem to be becoming a bit overloaded but it seems that the data suggests that we are at or near the peak. Couple that with the fact that the CFR seems to be significantly lower (and I’m sure much of that is from interventions/improvements/etc).

It’s not surprising that, at least for the current waves/variants, that the majority of Hospitalized people are Unvaxxed. That’s exactly what was predicted and what any reasonable person would predict simply bc the Vax was specifically designed to lessen Severe Symptoms and, by much accounting, seems to have been successful there in the short term.

Moving forward, I’m afraid that the national strategy will have to move to constant “boosters” in order to keep variants at bay (whether caused by Vax or Unvax, who knows, Respiratory Viruses mutate) and the general public is not going to do it. Meaning, I think the “fully Vaxxed” rates will only go down as variants shift and boosters count towards the “fully vaxxed” figure.

It’s here to stay, though I hope I’m wrong.

I also hope that people will begin to think more about their overall health in general. Proper diet, exercise, mitigate excess/unnecessary pharmacological interventions (talk with your Dr about it) and maintain community relationships with people who love and care for you.

I agree.

Every now and then we have one of these Covid threads that stay on topic and creates great discussion. Honestly, when the ones jump in to destroy the thread, if folks would just ignore them, it would continue to be fruitful.

I always learn something in these discussions and would like to think I contribute positively to them. I exit quickly when they become a political shit show.

It’s funny, I was thinking the same thing about 30 minutes ago. Not many Covid threads last this long before it ends up in the Round Table. Kudos to most on here. Lol

And one last shoutout to the drs, nurses and em t’s.

 

[dscottysf]

This isnt true. Efficacy of the vaccines is still quite high. Again, breakthrough cases of the vaccinated population is a hair under 1%. Hospitalization of the vaccinated population is .004%. Death of the vaccinated population is .0007%.

Get vaccinated and get the booster when available, period. The statement of "... monthly boosters" is hyperbole. Full FDA approval is expected before the end of September.

I agree with the statement that "Covid is here to stay". Its something we will need to contend with from here on out, BUT treatments will improve and eventually natural immunity will come along with over the counter medications. We, collectively, just need to bridge the gap and the vaccines are the best way to do that.

The precautions that are being implemented are just to prevent further spread BUT more importantly are being implemented to not break our heathcare system. Soooooooo that when someone gets into a car accident and needs medical services they arent left dying in a hospital hallway.

Very well put!

 

[ctcseb]

Hey doc, I have a question for you if you have the time to respond.

You say you're not an "alarmist", yet you seem to be alarmed...but I digress.

I would just like for you to respond to my particular situation. No one in my household of 4 has been vaccinated. This COVID crap has been around for at 18 months, and if the real truth ever comes out, closer to two years.

How would you explain none of us being tested positive for the virus (I think my wife had it in Feb of last year before there were even test)? We are led to believe by our "leaders" that everyone is going to get this if we don't get the shot.

Why have I not already got the virus? Within a week of this virus starting, I was living my life as normal. I obeyed the directives, but only wore a mask where it was mandatory. I'm over 50, overweight, and have other issues, but I have never had Covid.

What say you?

Are you familiar with the concept of logical fallacy? These are errors in reasoning, or flawed thinking to simplify it.

It's hard to tell from your post how old you are (forgive me if you are a teenager, you may not have learned this yet), but your post is full of them, I would really recommend you look into at least the following:

Anecdotal fallacy

Burden of proof fallacy

Lots of free info available on the Internet if you want to improve your thinking skills:

 

[Allornothing]

An “alarmist” is a Chicken Little, who overstates a threat to others. This dude is an MD that’s relaying concerning information to you that he is witnessing with his own two eyes.

Dr. Faux-chi is a doctor too. You gonna stand behind everything he has said too?

 

[Allornothing]

Are you familiar with the concept of logical fallacy? These are errors in reasoning, or flawed thinking to simplify it.

It's hard to tell from your post how old you are (forgive me if you are a teenager, you may not have learned this yet), but your post is full of them, I would really recommend you look into at least the following:

Anecdotal fallacy

Burden of proof fallacy

Lots of free info available on the Internet if you want to improve your thinking skills:

You're a real gem.

I put my age in my post moron...over 50.

Since you've been going to school your whole life, why don't you tell me how I should live mine.

Unless I missed something, my question to the DR has not been answered.

 

[Cleopatrick2001]

Is Ivermectin not allowed in the ER? There are great results from it, yet no one ever talks about it

I wasn’t going to bring this up but since you did. I’m curious too.

I personally know 8 people that have used it in their successful recovery. It’s being administered by Iredell Health which is a prominent system in Mooresville just above Charlotte.

I had my doubts originally but Oxford has started a clinical trial study on ivermectin so there must be some merit to it.

 

[Howard's Jock]

Dr. Faux-chi is a doctor too. You gonna stand behind everything he has said too?

Dude was passing along stats for current patients in his hospital. You calling him a liar?

 

[Howard's Jock]

I wasn’t going to bring this up but since you did. I’m curious too.

I personally know 8 people that have used it in their successful recovery. It’s being administered by Iredell Health which is a prominent system in Mooresville just above Charlotte.

I had my doubts originally but Oxford has started a clinical trial study on ivermectin so there must be some merit to it.

I was with a long hauler recently and he said it improved his symptoms greatly as well.

 

[ctcseb]

Dr. Faux-chi is a doctor too. You gonna stand behind everything he has said too?

So, science is actually two things:
- a body of knowledge
- a recommended approach to add to that body of knowledge (scientific process)

That body of knowledge is the sum of human knowledge regarding our understanding of the world. Contrary to popular belief, this is not something static, this is something that changes all the time as new discoveries are made and better explanations are found for what we observe in the world today.

The scientific process is a proven methodology where someone makes conjectures (hypotheses), predictions based on the hypotheses, and then run objective experiments to validate or invalidate the hypotheses. If the hypotheses are proven true they may complement or even replace prior information in the body of knowledge accumulated over time.

While the process itself is reasonably rigid and requires external validation of claims (publishing, peer reviews, etc.), the fact that the body of knowledge gets better over time is sometimes used to undermine science. People with cognitive bias will go "see you said something before and now you say something else". Well, yeah, if new information provides better explanations, more accuracy, it would be stupid to hang on to the "old" information.

We are witnessing real-time a worldwide attempt to manage a pandemic where researchers are validating and invalidating lots of hypotheses. You have representatives of science that are relaying what the latest state of knowledge is both to elected officials and the public. Some things have been validated some have been invalidated. Using this to attack Fauci is a special kind of stupid when it shows science working properly.

 

[Tigerbomb]

Just looking at the numbers and comparing to India, we should see Delta peak between now and Labor Day. Cases should fall off dramatically by the end of September. Of note but not being discussed is the mortality rate of Delta, which appears to be much lower.

To add to the mask discussion, I am a conservative Republican Christian. I got vaccinated as soon as I could, but I will only wear a mask where required. I got vaccinated to maintain my personal liberty, and I will not wear a mask where I do not have to.

I think it will peak in the South and other places that have seen a sharp increase over the last 6 weeks but I'm not sure cases will peak in the Northeast/less infected areas until later. We will probably hover around 150,000 cases per day on a national level for a while.

The UK is past their peak for London and most heavily populated areas but they are still at 30,000 cases/day because it has made its way to more rural locations.

Hopefully some of the areas that are more heavily vaccinated will only see more cases but not overwhelming hospital numbers but I have my doubts considering Florida is solidly over 50% and they got hammered. I doubt 7-8% more vaccinated makes a huge difference.

 

[Howard's Jock]

So, science is actually two things:
- a body of knowledge
- a recommended approach to add to that body of knowledge (scientific process)

That body of knowledge is the sum of human knowledge regarding our understanding of the world. Contrary to popular belief, this is not something static, this is something that changes all the time as new discoveries are made and better explanations are found for what we observe in the world today.

The scientific process is a proven methodology where someone makes conjectures (hypotheses), predictions based on the hypotheses, and then run objective experiments to validate or invalidate the hypotheses. If the hypotheses are proven true they may complement or even replace prior information in the body of knowledge accumulated over time.

While the process itself is reasonably rigid and requires external validation of claims (publishing, peer reviews, etc.), the fact that the body of knowledge gets better over time is sometimes used to undermine science. People with cognitive bias will go "see you said something before and now you say something else". Well, yeah, if new information provides better explanations, more accuracy, it would be stupid to hang on to the "old" information.

We are witnessing real-time a worldwide attempt to manage a pandemic where researchers are validating and invalidating lots of hypotheses. You have representatives of science that are relaying what the latest state of knowledge is both to elected officials and the public. Some things have been validated some have been invalidated. Using this to attack Fauci is a special kind of stupid when it shows science working properly.

Still don’t know what he’s talking about standing behind the doctor itt when he offered no medical advice or opinions that I could see.

 

[CoffeeIsForClosers]

I'm a hospital physician, ER and hospitalist, and let me say I'm not an alarmist. I've been skeptical of media overhype of this virus from the beginning. And I was 100% for opening everything and ending mask mandates. BUT this delta variant has been a game changer. We are in the middle of the surge crisis we all feared 18 months. My hospital is full of Covid patients. Our ER and every major ER in our area is on diversion. There are NO open ICU beds in the 7 hospital MUSC system that I work in. It is a crisis across the state. I'm afraid it is only a matter of time until the government feels they need to do something. I hate it and really want life to go on but it's hard to see them not doing anything.

I can’t believe anyone actually read this thread. OP had way too much credible knowledge about the current public health situation for anyone to actually give pause too.

 

[Essolover4]

The % of vaccinated and hospitalized patients has been going up and is close to 50% in the UK and Israel . What happens there seems to always make it’s way West. I suspect we will see the same type numbers here in the coming months. I wish we would focus more on therapeutic treatments. People can Poo Poo on Ivermectin all they want but there are a lot of studies that show it is effective. They used it in Mexico City and had tremendous results . Peru as well. Portions of India as well.

 

[ctcseb]

You're a real gem.

I put my age in my post moron...over 50.

Since you've been going to school your whole life, why don't you tell me how I should live mine.

Unless I missed something, my question to the DR has not been answered.

Look, I'm just having fun because the Dunning Kruger effect is in full force in this thread and it's cracking me up.

I knew the teenager thing would trigger you

I absolutely don't want to tell you how to live your life. My crusade is for responsibility, not control. So, if it were up to me, we would let people choose to not get vaccinated but then they would be deprioritized in terms of hospital access so that cancer patients and people needing care wouldn't suffer. Look how stupid the situation has become in hotspots, this guy was shot 6 times last week and can't have surgery because covid patients took up all the beds

Innocent passer-by shot 6 times waiting for surgery for a week

Then health insurance companies could also recoup additional cost from people that chose to take that risk and ended up in the ICU, etc. If you want to protect your freedom, well fine, but I don't want to pay higher premiums because of your decisions.

So, don't get vaccinated, I honestly don't care, but don't come ask me and society to cover for your stupidity, sorry, choice, when you are at the hospital.