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If you doubt the existence of God,

tallulahtiger30319

The Jack Dunlap Club
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Oct 24, 2012
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go to Alaska. After spending the past ten days in Alaska, it occurred to me that anyone who doubts God really ought to go to Alaska and see Him for yourself. I just do not believe that any open minded person can watch the salmon do what they do and not see God plain as day. Alaska is majestic, pure and simple and her bounty straight up awe-inspiring.

It is one of the most meaningful travel experiences I've had.
 
go to Alaska. After spending the past ten days in Alaska, it occurred to me that anyone who doubts God really ought to go to Alaska and see Him for yourself. I just do not believe that any open minded person can watch the salmon do what they do and not see God plain as day. Alaska is majestic, pure and simple and her bounty straight up awe-inspiring.

It is one of the most meaningful travel experiences I've had.
Interested to hear more detail on this. What specifically about the salmon do you relate to God?

Also agree that Alaska is incredibly beautiful. And the tap water is second to none (weird, I know, but glacier water is unbeatable).
 
Bucket list item is visiting Gates of the Arctic. That place looks amazing. Alaska definitely is one of the most beautiful places to see.

Actually every national park is on the bucket list but this may be atop that last!
 
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What is it that the salmon do that unequivocally proves the existence of the lord? I’m not trying to be a dick, just curious as to what the sign was for you.
Not trying to be a dick either but if you ever go to Alaska and then Go to the bible and Read Romans you to might understand what he is talking about. Some things just cant be explained in words.

And from another thread.....it might just help you figure out what your life is supposed to be!!!
 
Not trying to be a dick either but if you ever go to Alaska and then Go to the bible and Read Romans you to might understand what he is talking about. Some things just cant be explained in words.

And from another thread.....it might just help you figure out what your life is supposed to be!!!
So....you want him to read something to help him understand something that cannot be explained in words?

;)
 
go to Alaska. After spending the past ten days in Alaska, it occurred to me that anyone who doubts God really ought to go to Alaska and see Him for yourself. I just do not believe that any open minded person can watch the salmon do what they do and not see God plain as day. Alaska is majestic, pure and simple and her bounty straight up awe-inspiring.

It is one of the most meaningful travel experiences I've had.

My wife and I were there last July. Anchorage --> Valdez --> Fairbanks --> Denali --> Talkeetna. Trip of a lifetime. Adding to the great scenery were the relationships developed with fellow travelers. We brought back many memories but also left part of ourselves there.

No doubt seeing God's handiwork was humbling and gave added perspective to Gen. 1:1.
 
Interested to hear more detail on this. What specifically about the salmon do you relate to God?

Also agree that Alaska is incredibly beautiful. And the tap water is second to none (weird, I know, but glacier water is unbeatable).

Well, I should confess, I get choked up by nature quite often. And I'm already a strong believer so it wasn't a big leap for me to make this connection. But.....we were at the mouth of Wolverine Creek watching hordes of salmon make the journey from the ocean preparing themselves to travel up this itty bitty creek to spawn and then die. At the mouth with us were multiple bears doing bear things (eating the salmon who were completely undeterred from their mission.) There was a mama bear and two cubs just chowing down on salmon and though I already knew this in my heart and my head, it occurred to me that only God could orchestrate a dance this beautiful and complete. Again, it's not a big leap for me to make this connection, and I recognize that, but good grief, how do atheists reconcile things like this that obviously required a LOT of design. IDK, Mr. Ballz. maybe it's just me, but Alaska really spoke to me, and I cannot wait to go back.

Oh and you're right about the tap water. Unbelievable.
 
Not trying to be a dick either but if you ever go to Alaska and then Go to the bible and Read Romans you to might understand what he is talking about. Some things just cant be explained in words.

And from another thread.....it might just help you figure out what your life is supposed to be!!!
Thanks for providing the written word excerpt of something that apparently can’t be explained in words
 
science related things happen and god is living. i see the connection. most of those salmon are probably not married in the biblical sense.
 
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go to Alaska. After spending the past ten days in Alaska, it occurred to me that anyone who doubts God really ought to go to Alaska and see Him for yourself. I just do not believe that any open minded person can watch the salmon do what they do and not see God plain as day. Alaska is majestic, pure and simple and her bounty straight up awe-inspiring.

It is one of the most meaningful travel experiences I've had.

Some of us understand what you felt. I have been three times and I definitely feel closer to God when I am there.
 
What is it that the salmon do that unequivocally proves the existence of the lord? I’m not trying to be a dick, just curious as to what the sign was for you.

Interested to hear more detail on this. What specifically about the salmon do you relate to God?

Also agree that Alaska is incredibly beautiful. And the tap water is second to none (weird, I know, but glacier water is unbeatable).

Being someone who strongly believes in science and who also does not believe that in any way it contradicts God's word or disproves the existence of God, here is my answer.

Someone referenced Roman's 1:20 appropriately. Here is what it says:

"For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse."

In a nut shell, what this passage says to me is the evidence of intelligent creation is all around us. And the more we understand the beauty and complexity of the universe we live in and how it works, the more we should come to understand His power and His hand in its creation. The more we learn as human beings about what God has done, the less of an excuse we have to doubt Him. Unfortunately, some people think the more we come to understand about His creation, the smarter it makes us and the less we need God to explain it.

If you had never seen a TV before and you found yourself in a room with a TV on the table in front of you and it played something that was broadcast live from halfway around the world, you would no doubt be in awe and who knows what you may believe. Is it magic?

If you had a toolset in that room and you spent days and weeks and years taking the TV apart piece by piece and reverse engineered exactly how the technology worked and could explain how all of those pieces and parts work together, would you be any less impressed? You would probably be pretty proud of yourself and the fact that YOU had figured it out. Your ego would be pretty big. You have disproved that that TV works on magic and YOU know the secret of how it all comes together and works. But now that you know how it was created and that it isnt "magic", have you disproven that someone created it or have you actually proven that it was created by a highly intelligent being, someone far more intelligent than you? How silly does it seem to think that the inventor of the TV has now been wiped from existence because someone figured out how he created his TV and how it works and it is not magic after all?

Unfortunately, some people think that if you can show that something isn't magic, and that if you open something up and find that their is a logical, ingenious order to the pieces and parts, that it somehow disproves the existence of a creator as well. Too many people think that we only need God if we can't explain something on our own. God is only needed for magic and somehow not capable of intelligent and logical creation.

And furthermore, does the fact that the inventor of the TV is not in the room make it reasonable to assume that all of those pieces came together in such a perfect way on their own? Does the inventors absence and your new understanding of how that TV works disprove for you that a highly intelligent being was ever involved at all in bringing those pieces together to begin with? Is it reasonable to hypothesize that because we can not see the inventor of the TV or talk to him, that there was a big explosion in the room from "something we dont yet understand" and that set everything in perfect motion to create the parts and pieces and assemble them into something as incredible as that TV? An incredible stroke of luck.

For me, that analogy and those questions analogize where non-believers go wrong with science. Many non believers think that if someone can figure out how things came together in nature and how they work that they have somehow disproved the existence of God at all. If you can break something down and explain how it works, you have shown it isnt magic and therefore you don't need God anymore. For them God is magic or nothing.

Understanding how something works and how it came to be (which is what science does) does not disprove that there is an amazing, unimaginably intelligent guiding force behind all of the creations we behold on a daily basis. There is a big difference in reverse engineering something and engineering it from nothing with nothing. As smart as we think we are when we figure out some small piece of some small thing within the vast universe, all we are doing is reverse engineering the works of an enormously more intelligent and powerful creator. Just as the man who figured out how that TV works did not disprove the fact that a highly intelligent man somewhere invented it, our science does not disprove the existence of God. In both cases what they speak to is how necessary and how intelligent and purposeful the creator behind the TV, or our universe, are.

There are a lot of ignorant Christian's out there who do a lot to make non-believers think that you cant believe in science and believe in God. Some Christian's are scared or intimidated by the science community and believe that their advances in knowledge somehow disproves what the bible says, when what they should be doing is embracing it and using it to better understand what the bible and God is really telling us. The bible is not flawed, I just think man is flawed in his interpretation and translation sometimes. I choose to learn from science and grow in my understanding of how remarkable God is, instead of hide from it while remaining ignorant.

If you are a Christian, I encourage you to embrace science and what it teaches us about God. Be open to changing what you believed yesterday if you have a better understanding based on something you learned today.
 
go to Alaska. After spending the past ten days in Alaska, it occurred to me that anyone who doubts God really ought to go to Alaska and see Him for yourself. I just do not believe that any open minded person can watch the salmon do what they do and not see God plain as day. Alaska is majestic, pure and simple and her bounty straight up awe-inspiring.

It is one of the most meaningful travel experiences I've had.
Just got back from ten days up there a couple of weeks ago. We cruised Glacier Bay again and then bussed up into Denali and ended in Fairbanks. There were about twenty friends in our group....all believers for the most part. We talked quiet a bit about the power and intelligence required to create this tiny planet with all it's magnificence. We also concluded that God really loves beauty.
 
go to Alaska. After spending the past ten days in Alaska, it occurred to me that anyone who doubts God really ought to go to Alaska and see Him for yourself. I just do not believe that any open minded person can watch the salmon do what they do and not see God plain as day. Alaska is majestic, pure and simple and her bounty straight up awe-inspiring.

It is one of the most meaningful travel experiences I've had.

Yes, but don't they produce a lot of oil? That may make them in some circles 'evil'?
 
Would an Alaskan cruise work or is there a better way to visit?
Also, God and heaven are real. Praise Lord Jesus. The Bible sets one day, everyone will confess Jesus is king. Even souls outside of heaven.
 
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go to Alaska. After spending the past ten days in Alaska, it occurred to me that anyone who doubts God really ought to go to Alaska and see Him for yourself. I just do not believe that any open minded person can watch the salmon do what they do and not see God plain as day. Alaska is majestic, pure and simple and her bounty straight up awe-inspiring.

It is one of the most meaningful travel experiences I've had.
Can you give a summary of your trip, places visited etc. I want to take this trip over the next few years if possible and would love to know more about it or things you would change etc
 
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Interesting to me how many Christians who see God's handiwork in nature are also the ones whose votes go in direct opposition of protecting the Earth.
Well...I'll make a stab at a response. We believe that the Earth is for man and not the other way around. We believe that the One who created it holds all things together....we actually believe that "all things are from him, through him and for him". We also believe that this earth is going to end one day no matter what we do but that earth will be recreated in a perfect condition and those that have been given life through faith in Christ will live there for eternity with him. So, we should take reasonably good care of this temporary home but the notion that we should limit humanity or suffer lack because we're afraid of destroying the planet is preposterous to Bible believers.
 
My brother (CU grad) just moved back home from working up there for last 20 years.

We are spending millions to build concrete runways at every Eskimo village up there so they can better get planes into these villages.

One of his contracts was to put in a runway on an island 500 miles out in the Bering Sea.

10 million on a runway for 250 eskimos.

Our tax money went to a 40 million dollar runway just for a Starkist tuna plant.

Against the law for an Eskimo to have any type alcohol. They are all drunks.

No State income tax. Each resident of state receives a dividend check of 2900.00 each year. My brother always walked down to the SPCA chapter in Anchorage and signed the back and handed it to them. Those animals loved to see him coming.

You wont hear or read about it but there are way more deaths from bears killing tourist than you think.
 
All seriousness aside, I thought you were going to say you were chased by a bear in Alaska... Yes, most would be yelling, "Lawd God Help me!" in that scenario.

Hahaha. Nah, the bears were uninterested in us, thank heavens. They were focused on fishing. Well, and each other. For example, the mama bear who had 2 cubs with her had zero interest in us, but by golly when another adult showed up, it was game on. The adults sized each other up and pretty quickly the interlopers left. I was a little worried she would turn her attention to us, but it was like she had NO fear of us whatsoever. The whole encounter was ridiculously cool to experience.
 
People typically process/experience things through the lens of their own worldview.

If you're an ardent believer, you see the hand of God everywhere, but most profoundly in the beauty of nature.

If you're not, you just appreciate the aesthetic beauty of it and our small place in it all.

That's why pointing to stuff like this as "evidence" is faulty.

Well...I'll make a stab at a response. We believe that the Earth is for man and not the other way around. We believe that the One who created it holds all things together....we actually believe that "all things are from him, through him and for him". We also believe that this earth is going to end one day no matter what we do but that earth will be recreated in a perfect condition and those that have been given life through faith in Christ will live there for eternity with him. So, we should take reasonably good care of this temporary home but the notion that we should limit humanity or suffer lack because we're afraid of destroying the planet is preposterous to Bible believers.

This is such a common misconception re: climate change. It gets painted as hippie liberals protecting their earth mother, or some nonsense like that.

The earth is going to be fine.

WE won't be. Climate science isn't about protecting a rock in orbit around the sun. It's directly related to decreasing/preventing human death and suffering, which one would imagine Christians would be all for.
 
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What is it that the salmon do that unequivocally proves the existence of the lord? I’m not trying to be a dick, just curious as to what the sign was for you.

You didn’t hear??? Salmon were able to summon a helicopter after getting trapped while migrating. God has Canadian FEMA on speed dial.
 
People typically process/experience things through the lens of their own worldview.

If you're an ardent believer, you see the hand of God everywhere, but most profoundly in the beauty of nature.

If you're not, you just appre


This is such a common misconception re: climate change. It gets painted as hippie liberals protecting their earth mother, or some nonsense like that.

The earth is going to be fine.

WE won't be. Climate science isn't about protecting a rock in orbit around the sun. It's directly related to decreasing/preventing human death and suffering, which one would imagine Christians would be all for.
While we there last month, we saw massive valleys created by glaciers thousands of years ago....the glaciers have been gone for thousands of years as well. So, clearly the climate has always been changing. Do humans contribute to the change? I would say every living thing on the planet contributes to the change in some manner. I contribute to changing the water level of Hartwell when I pee off of my dock at night also. Can we control climate change to any appreciable degree? ...about the same degree that I contribute to water level change.
 
While we there last month, we saw massive valleys created by glaciers thousands of years ago....the glaciers have been gone for thousands of years as well. So, clearly the climate has always been changing. Do humans contribute to the change? I would say every living thing on the planet contributes to the change in some manner. I contribute to changing the water level of Hartwell when I pee off of my dock at night also. Can we control climate change to any appreciable degree? ...about the same degree that I contribute to water level change.

That isn't what the nearly unanimous opinion of the scientific community is.
 
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Interested to hear more detail on this. What specifically about the salmon do you relate to God?

Also agree that Alaska is incredibly beautiful. And the tap water is second to none (weird, I know, but glacier water is unbeatable).

Melted glacier water MIGHT be the only water on earth that isn't at some point recycled pee.

Is visiting Baltimore proof that Satan exists?

That or a toilet bowl.

I think the river is so messed up you can't even swim in it.
 
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Being someone who strongly believes in science and who also does not believe that in any way it contradicts God's word or disproves the existence of God, here is my answer.

Someone referenced Roman's 1:20 appropriately. Here is what it says:

"For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse."

In a nut shell, what this passage says to me is the evidence of intelligent creation is all around us. And the more we understand the beauty and complexity of the universe we live in, the more we should come to understand His power.

If you had never seen a TV before and you found yourself in a room with a TV on the table in front of you and it played something that was broadcast live from halfway around the world, you would no doubt be in awe and who knows what you may believe. Is it magic?

If you had a tool set in that room and you spent days and weeks and years taking it apart piece by piece and reverse engineered exactly how the technology worked and could explain how all of those pieces and parts came together, would you be any less impressed? You would probably be pretty proud of yourself and the fact that YOU had figured it out. Your ego would be pretty big. You have disproved that that TV works on magic and YOU know the secret of how it all comes together and works. But now that you know how it was created, as complicated as it is, have you disproven that someone created it or have you actually proven that it was created by a highly intelligent being, someone far more intelligent than you?

Unfortunately, some people think that if you can show that something isnt magic, and that if you open something up and understand the logical order of the pieces and parts, that it somehow disproves the existence of a creator as well. Too many people think that we only need God if we can't explain something on our own. God is only needed for magic. If we can reverse engineer something and show how it works, we have somehow disproved the intelligent creation behind it when in fact, we have done the opposite. We have proven the extreme intelligence required to put it together in the first place. Our science just proves, more and more, how intelligent the creator of our universe is.

Does it require more intelligence to reverse engineer something (which is what scientist seek to do with everything in existence) or to create it from nothing? The intelligence required to create from nothing, with no blueprint is far beyond what it takes to reverse engineer someone else's creation.

Furthermore, should the fact that the person who created/invented the TV is not in the room make it plausible that all of those pieces came together in such a perfect way on their own? Does the inventors absence and your new understanding of how that TV works disprove for you that a highly intelligent being was ever involved at all in bringing those pieces together to begin with to make that TV work? Maybe spontaneous combustion just made those pieces come together just like you see it now. Because the creator is not there, maybe that is more logical. Now that you can explain how it works and you know it isn't magic, there is no need to figure out who or what put those steps in motion to bring those pieces together in such a perfect way. Let's just say there was a big explosion in the room from "something" and that set everything in perfect motion to create that TV from the pieces and parts in that room. An incredible stroke of luck.

For me, that analogy and those questions analogize where non-believers go wrong with science. Many non believers think that if someone can figure out how things came together in nature and how they work that they have somehow disproved the existence of God at all. If you can break something down and explain how it works, you have shown it isnt magic and therefore you don't need God anymore. For them God is magic or nothing. Understanding how something was created does not disprove the existence of its creator. In the analogy above it seems like a pretty crazy leap to think that noone really invented that TV at all now that YOU can explain how it works. Have you disproved that someone highly intelligent was ever involved in its creation to begin with now that YOU can explain it?

Understanding how something works and how it came to be (which is what science does) does not disprove that there is an amazing, unimaginable guiding force behind all of the creations we behold on a daily basis. There is a big difference in reverse engineering something and engineering it from nothing with nothing. As smart as we think we are when we figure some small piece of some small thing out, all we are doing is reverse engineering the works of an enormously more intelligent and powerful creator.

There are a lot of ignorant Christian's out there who do a lot to make non-believers think that you cant believe in science and believe in God. They believe or are scared that the science community somehow disproves anything they believe or what the bible says, when what they should be doing is embracing it and using it to better understand what the bible and God is really telling us. The bible is not flawed, I just think man is flawed in his interpretation and translation sometimes. I choose to learn from science and grow in my understanding of how remarkable God is, instead of hide from it and be ignorant.

You should post more often it is so nice to learn something like this today.
 
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