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I'll just leave this here. Hot off the presses.

southerncaltiger

Lake Baikal
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Mar 16, 2006
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Formerly LA, now Granite Bay, CA
Newsom calls for California ban on new gas-fueled cars by 2035

By Colby Bermel - Politico

09/23/2020 01:30 PM EDT

SACRAMENTO — Gov. Gavin Newsom is calling for California to ban new gasoline-fueled vehicles within 15 years in a bid to combat climate change and make the state the first in the nation to stop sales of internal combustion engines.

The Democratic governor announced Wednesday that he is directing the California Air Resources Board to establish regulations requiring that all new cars and passenger trucks sold in California in 2035 be zero-emission vehicles.
 
Thats a big10 move. No one is "following California" anymore.

Environmental policy-wise, it’s how they feel they need to roll out here. I will have a ringside seat to watch this play out.
CARB, while they have forced industry to clean up the air quality (watch any old L.A. area movie on TCM and it’s obvious), is arguably the most out-of-control environmental agency I’ve ever worked with.
 
I’m assuming this is sarcasm about the mandate, so if I’m wrong sorry.

I don’t understand how this is a bad thing? We might not all agree on global warming being a real and major issue but we all can agree that gasoline-fuel vehicles pollute and that pollution is bad. Why are new/cleaner forms of energy bad? I’m conservative and identify as Republican but the environment is something that impacts us all. Why would we all not want to decrease pollution by demanding innovation in the field of energy?

Most major auto manufactures have goals to be 100% electric within certain timeframe anyway and many are sooner than 15 years.
 
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I’m assuming this is sarcasm about the mandate, so if I’m wrong sorry.

I don’t understand how this is a bad thing? We might not all agree on global warming being a real and major issue but we all can agree that gasoline-fuel vehicles pollute and that pollution is bad. Why are new/cleaner forms of energy bad? I’m conservative and identify as Republican but the environment is something that impacts us all. Why would we all not want to decrease pollution by demanding innovation in the field of energy?

Most major auto manufactures have goals to be 100% electric within certain timeframe anyway and many are sooner than 15 years.
Don’t misunderstand me; it’s not “a bad thing” overall. Mandating with a time frame without having a grasp of the negative cascading effects? That’s not a good thing. Tell me, for instance, how the low income folks will be buying those expensive electric cars? Subsidies? Tax Credits? The nuanced aspects of policy making is where most folks don’t have a clue.
 
I’m assuming this is sarcasm about the mandate, so if I’m wrong sorry.

I don’t understand how this is a bad thing? We might not all agree on global warming being a real and major issue but we all can agree that gasoline-fuel vehicles pollute and that pollution is bad. Why are new/cleaner forms of energy bad? I’m conservative and identify as Republican but the environment is something that impacts us all. Why would we all not want to decrease pollution by demanding innovation in the field of energy?

Most major auto manufactures have goals to be 100% electric within certain timeframe anyway and many are sooner than 15 years.

Exactly. The auto giants are pushing a lot of R&D dollars towards electric.
 
I’m assuming this is sarcasm about the mandate, so if I’m wrong sorry.

I don’t understand how this is a bad thing? We might not all agree on global warming being a real and major issue but we all can agree that gasoline-fuel vehicles pollute and that pollution is bad. Why are new/cleaner forms of energy bad? I’m conservative and identify as Republican but the environment is something that impacts us all. Why would we all not want to decrease pollution by demanding innovation in the field of energy?

Most major auto manufactures have goals to be 100% electric within certain timeframe anyway and many are sooner than 15 years.
This.
 
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His wildfires have contributed more to climate change in the past 10 years than vehicles have in the past 20. Maybe the liberal governor should consider starting a controlled burn and logging practice out there.
By “his” wildfires I assume you’re talking about the ones happening on the land owned by the federal government?
 
Don’t misunderstand me; it’s not “a bad thing” overall. Mandating with a time frame without having a grasp of the negative cascading effects? That’s not a good thing. Tell me, for instance, how the low income folks will be buying those expensive electric cars? Subsidies? Tax Credits? The nuanced aspects of policy making is where most folks don’t have a clue.

I agree, I don’t love the government mandating this. The top down approach is not good for these type of things.

Auto Manufacturers needs to be pushed hard to innovate and offer solutions at today’s cost. This ideally, would come from the end customer but a vehicle is something many must have so most don’t have the ability to not purchase one. Hence, you get government mandates.

We must move towards these types of energy though.
 
His wildfires have contributed more to climate change in the past 10 years than vehicles have in the past 20. Maybe the liberal governor should consider starting a controlled burn and logging practice out there.
Let’s do both
 
They currently have rolling blackouts and are planning to combine that with replacing nuclear and hydrocarbon powered generation with solar and wind. Now we're going to also power millions of electric vehicles with the wind and sun. And where are all these batteries from the electric vehicles going to be stored when they expire? Seems like a fool proof plan.
 
How are you gonna charge up all those electric vehicles when you can't keep the power on out there? The move to electric vehicles is smart only if you have the infrastructure to support it.

A valid question that is going to require innovation and work but it’s nothing we couldn’t over come. I’m sure the same was said when Henry Ford starting producing model Ts at a staggering rate. Now we have gas stations and I’m sure horse stables/farms took a major hit.

It’s not an over night solution and will cause pain in certain sectors but you have to move away from fossil fuels.
 
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Good luck California getting the infrastructure in place to support that.
 
I’m assuming this is sarcasm about the mandate, so if I’m wrong sorry.

I don’t understand how this is a bad thing? We might not all agree on global warming being a real and major issue but we all can agree that gasoline-fuel vehicles pollute and that pollution is bad. Why are new/cleaner forms of energy bad? I’m conservative and identify as Republican but the environment is something that impacts us all. Why would we all not want to decrease pollution by demanding innovation in the field of energy?

Most major auto manufactures have goals to be 100% electric within certain timeframe anyway and many are sooner than 15 years.
Going to be a LOT of old batteries of which to dispose....But good news....We will have global cooling very soon...It seems the new green deal already changed it, even without ever being implemented....
 
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They currently have rolling blackouts and are planning to combine that with replacing nuclear and hydrocarbon powered generation with solar and wind. Now we're going to also power millions of electric vehicles with the wind and sun. And where are all these batteries from the electric vehicles going to be stored when they expire? Seems like a fool proof plan.
They’ll all be recycled, just like we do with our spent nuclear fuel...oh, wait. Forget it.
 
Infrastructure is the limiting step. Cost will not be an issue. Electric cars are already extremely close to the cost of gasoline engines and will be the same or cheaper in 15 years. The innovations in battery production and framework for electric vehicles is growing rapidly.

Problem is the charging. Where are you going to do it, and how fast?
 
How are you gonna charge up all those electric vehicles when you can't keep the power on out there? The move to electric vehicles is smart only if you have the infrastructure to support it.

Better yet, how you gonna control the disposal of all the battery acids. Pretty harsh on the environment in of itself. Probably more so than the low emissions Vehicles released today by Car manufacturers.
 
I’m assuming this is sarcasm about the mandate, so if I’m wrong sorry.

I don’t understand how this is a bad thing? We might not all agree on global warming being a real and major issue but we all can agree that gasoline-fuel vehicles pollute and that pollution is bad. Why are new/cleaner forms of energy bad? I’m conservative and identify as Republican but the environment is something that impacts us all. Why would we all not want to decrease pollution by demanding innovation in the field of energy?

Most major auto manufactures have goals to be 100% electric within certain timeframe anyway and many are sooner than 15 years.
Sooooooo California is already expierncing massive black and browns due to a overburdened power grid. The solar and winds farms they built all the while cutting fossil/nuclear fuel plants ALL READY can’t keep up with demand, soooooooooooooooooooo how does Gavin plan on charging all these new vehicles??
 
Newsom calls for California ban on new gas-fueled cars by 2035

By Colby Bermel - Politico

09/23/2020 01:30 PM EDT

SACRAMENTO — Gov. Gavin Newsom is calling for California to ban new gasoline-fueled vehicles within 15 years in a bid to combat climate change and make the state the first in the nation to stop sales of internal combustion engines.

The Democratic governor announced Wednesday that he is directing the California Air Resources Board to establish regulations requiring that all new cars and passenger trucks sold in California in 2035 be zero-emission vehicles.
Time to invest in a Nevada car dealership.
 
A valid question that is going to require innovation and work but it’s nothing we couldn’t over come. I’m sure the same was said when Henry Ford starting producing model Ts at a staggering rate. Now we have gas stations and I’m sure horse stables/farms took a major hit.

It’s not an over night solution and will cause pain in certain sectors but you have to move away from fossil fuels.
I agree with this in theory, but the policies put into place in CA are only hindering the cause. They moved way too aggressively toward green power and are shutting down their nuclear plants, the number one power source for reducing greenhouse gases. Outcome? Rolling blackouts and enormous power bills. So now they want to move everyone to electric vehicles in 15 years? They need to rethink their policies on electric generation then.
 
By “his” wildfires I assume you’re talking about the ones happening on the land owned by the federal government?

Federal forestry officials have said they would like to do more, but much of the agency’s budget has been tied up reacting to fires, rather than trying to prevent them. From 1995 to 2015, the Forest Service went from spending 16 percent to 52 percent of its budget fighting fires, according to the Ecological Society of America, a non-profit that tries to bring science into environmental decision making.

In a 2015 report, the Forest Service conceded that the ever-greater cost of quelling mega-fires had depleted work to “improve the health and resilience of our forested landscapes and mitigate the potential for wildland fire in future years.” Added the timber industry’s Gordon: “A huge part of the problem is ... a lack of management of federal land.
 
Don’t misunderstand me; it’s not “a bad thing” overall. Mandating with a time frame without having a grasp of the negative cascading effects? That’s not a good thing. Tell me, for instance, how the low income folks will be buying those expensive electric cars? Subsidies? Tax Credits? The nuanced aspects of policy making is where most folks don’t have a clue.

Exactly. How many vehicles on the road in 2035 would be 15 years old or older? My guess is...a lot.
 
Infrastructure is the limiting step. Cost will not be an issue. Electric cars are already extremely close to the cost of gasoline engines and will be the same or cheaper in 15 years. The innovations in battery production and framework for electric vehicles is growing rapidly.

Problem is the charging. Where are you going to do it, and how fast?
Respectfully disagree. I’ve seen the data; cost is absolutely an issue...maybe not for upper middle class, but it is for working class folks out here.
 
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Let's have a session of realism here.

Supposed "green energy" sources like solar and wind require a lot of rare earth metals for production. Here's a look at a rare earth mine

mining-operations1-12-23.jpg


Mining is a highly toxic process that destroys the environment around it. By some estimates, we have about 20-30 years of these minerals left on Earth and as we increase usage, that will just decrease supply.

So yeah, no gas sounds great but instead we'll have these mines all over as people scrape and claw for the last of the rare earth minerals/metals.

"Green energy" is the furthest thing from green. Also, we have no way of disposing of all the used batteries, solar panels and wind turbines. They will not degrade over time any better than plastic does in most cases. So yeah, this is full of genius!

That's my entire issue with current leftist thought. It's all emotion; no reason, no process and no real understanding.
 
Let's have a session of realism here.

Supposed "green energy" sources like solar and wind require a lot of rare earth metals for production. Here's a look at a rare earth mine

mining-operations1-12-23.jpg


Mining is a highly toxic process that destroys the environment around it. By some estimates, we have about 20-30 years of these minerals left on Earth and as we increase usage, that will just decrease supply.

So yeah, no gas sounds great but instead we'll have these mines all over as people scrape and claw for the last of the rare earth minerals/metals.

"Green energy" is the furthest thing from green. Also, we have no way of disposing of all the used batteries, solar panels and wind turbines. They will not degrade over time any better than plastic does in most cases. So yeah, this is full of genius!

That's my entire issue with current leftist thought. It's all emotion; no reason, no process and no real understanding.
Beautiful. Was going to bring this into the discussion but as some of you may recall, I’m a geologist by technical background.

Help me out, I don’t see any solar-powered mining equipment there.
 
I agree with this in theory, but the policies put into place in CA are only hindering the cause. They moved way too aggressively toward green power and are shutting down their nuclear plants, the number one power source for reducing greenhouse gases. Outcome? Rolling blackouts and enormous power bills. So now they want to move everyone to electric vehicles in 15 years? They need to rethink their policies on electric generation then.

their solution will be to do nothing and in 14 years and 30 days, they will say “Oh crap!”, and then everyone without a electric vehicle will be forced to take public transportation, whether it is feasible for them or not. Also ... I guarantee all “state” vehicles will be exempt from this mandate
 
Better yet, how you gonna control the disposal of all the battery acids. Pretty harsh on the environment in of itself. Probably more so than the low emissions Vehicles released today by Car manufacturers.
This is the hush, hush never talked about subject no liberal wants to discuss. I would love to see a long term impact study on the disposal of the millions of batteries this would result in.
 
His wildfires have contributed more to climate change in the past 10 years than vehicles have in the past 20. Maybe the liberal governor should consider starting a controlled burn and logging practice out there.
65% of the land burned on the West Coast this year is federal land.
 
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