Is the “Gubment Shutdown” affecting you?

[iceheart08]

Lol it truly does eat at you that the orange man is in the White House. He won at their game. @nytigerfan

Of course it does. I wake up every morning and dedicate my day to making sure his administration has as small an impact in my state as possible. I've been wildly successful too.

But the point is that you aren't honest enough to see that both sides speak in tropes.

Your notion that your side is right and my side is all stupid is small-minded and driven by a lack of intellectual honesty. Even I can see that some of the things trump wants to do will improve our economy. I have also said repeatedly that the average republican or conservative wants the same for this country as I do. We want our country to succeed. You obviously refuse to acknowledge that. Do better.

 

[TigerGrowls]

Which injunction against a trump EO has been overturned by the Supreme Court?

The travel ban for sure. Thats a big one.

 

[dbjork6317]

I was a government employee for 39 years. Now retired. I will soon see if it will affect retirement checks? I've gone through several shutdowns by both parties. Never anything this long, but I do get a chuckle from CNN playing the federal worker thing like a banjo. I remember several times over the years where they have run interviews and articles about federal employees being over paid and lazy with too many benefits. They don't care one iota about federal employees, well only if it suits their political agenda and narrative.

Can you cite a specific segment or article from CNN that said federal employees have too many benefits and are lazy?

 

[Earle36]

I got a feeling that Trumps wall will save us billions in the long run.

 

[dbjork6317]

Way to keep it professional. I'm not a Trump lover, but if it they were willing to pay $25B then, why are they willing to shut down the government now?

Because they aren't getting anything in return?

Why isn't Mexico paying for this thing anyway? Wasn't that part of the deal?

 

[iceheart08]

The travel ban for sure. Thats a big one.

The courts forced the administration to rewrite the EO twice before the supct determined that it was lawful. That's exactly how the system is supposed to work.

 

[vatiger1]

Of course it does. I wake up every morning and dedicate my day to making sure his administration has as small an impact in my state as possible. I've been wildly successful too.

But the point is that you aren't honest enough to see that both sides speak in tropes.

Your notion that your side is right and my side is all stupid is small-minded and driven by a lack of intellectual honesty. Even I can see that some of the things trump wants to do will improve our economy. I have also said repeatedly that the average republican or conservative wants the same for this country as I do. We want our country to succeed. You obviously refuse to acknowledge that. Do better.

Curious as to what have you been wildly successful in your State preventing Trumps administration from doing?

 

[IMBlessed]

Just goes to show you how much waste the government has.

You consider Air Traffic Controlers, Prison Guards, Secret Service, Coast Guard, TSA, Food Inspectors To Name a few, Working without pay “much waste”? Interesting! That is how I am affected; knowing the amount of hard working Americans having to work without or for delayed pay!

 

[TigerGrowls]

The courts forced the administration to rewrite the EO twice before the supct determined that it was lawful. That's exactly how the system is supposed to work.

Tell me how it was changed in any meaningful way? I believe it went off in practical real world applications exactly as it was originally intended. For the record, I believe in checks and balances, but this judicial activist holy war against Trump is not right.

 

[other1]

It’s pretty spotty. Depends what time you’re flying and where.

Exactly. You could go to Atlanta at 3am and see that the security lines are minimal.

 

[scotchtiger]

Because they aren't getting anything in return?

Why isn't Mexico paying for this thing anyway? Wasn't that part of the deal?

How about an open government, fewer illegal immigrants, lower entitlement expenses as a result, less drugs, etc?

I imagine the renegotiated trade deal combined with drug/crime prevention cost reduction combined with not having to provide free healthcare and other entitlements to illegals will offset the $5B pretty quickly.

 

[hj_gville]

Almost a month without a paycheck and been working the the majority of it (took a few says off after Christmas). I can hold out awhile, but pretty sad how dysfunctional the negotiations have gone so far. I can understand cut the fat mentality, but I feel for those in low paying jobs that are still putting out for gas, etc and not getting paid, i would have been in bad shape 10-15 years ago if this happened to me. Hope they figure it out quickly bit gut says this will last into February.

Unfortunately, the ones that are holding the scissors are the fat that most needs cutting.

 

[petegroove]

Yes, affecting me and many I know.

 

[dbjork6317]

How about an open government, fewer illegal immigrants, lower entitlement expenses as a result, less drugs, etc?

I imagine the renegotiated trade deal combined with drug/crime prevention cost reduction combined with not having to provide free healthcare and other entitlements to illegals will offset the $5B pretty quickly.

Yeah and while we’re at it why don’t we just end world hunger and use flying pigs as drones?

You need to rejoin us here in the real world where even the Republicans don’t have the stomach for major entitlement reform and where the most pressing drug problem we have comes from prescriptions given out by American doctors, not from drugs coming over the border.

Speaking of the border, where is all that money from Mexico again? Funny the President is shutting down the government for money he said we’d never need.

I wish the President and other conservatives would focus on real world problems rather than using hyperbole and scare tactics to promote what would likely turn out to be the most expensive piece of infrastructure in American history. But let’s be fiscally conservative, and reduce spending, right?

 

[colatiger]

I fly commercial just about every week and so far I don’t see any difference. “TSA” agents are being identified as the main portion of gov workers being affected but at the end of the day I look st these people like highway workers paving roads- there is a proportional percent that aren’t doing crap.

 

[92TigerME]

Just legalize drugs. Get rid of welfare and minimum wage laws and install electronic ID verification and 10 year citizenship if you commit no crimes.

 

[1Clemson]

How about an open government, fewer illegal immigrants, lower entitlement expenses as a result, less drugs, etc?

I imagine the renegotiated trade deal combined with drug/crime prevention cost reduction combined with not having to provide free healthcare and other entitlements to illegals will offset the $5B pretty quickly.

We need to focus on the real problems and real solutions rather than talking points and campaign promises.

1. Number of illegals has declined without wall.
   
2. Drugs are run through border checkpoints, via sea and air, or via tunnels or manufactured domestically - wall would be relatively useless
3. Many illegals also pay for entitlements that they don't receive- why not just focus on restricting entitlements?
4. The renegotiated trade agreement is not in effect and won't be until or if approved by Congress.
   
5. Illegals are less likely to be involved in crime than US citizens on a per 100,000 basis (they are afraid of deportation)

I favor stronger border security, a comprehensive immigration plan that is mutually beneficial to the US and the immigrant, and decreased entitlement eligibility- all of which can be obtained without a wall or fence.

 

[CUAngler]

It's a real shame that one party is opposing positions they previously supported and causing this problem.

Yikes

Double yikes at all the irony here.

You know that the Senate and Mitch McConnell already passed a clean spending bill, one that will also pass the house, right?

Mitch won't bring it up for a vote again because one person won't sign it because he's not getting his racist wall.

 

[nytigerfan]

Shumer, Obama and Clinton voted for a border fence while senators in 2006. They supported it. Why the change of heart?

The Secure Fence Act of 2006 authorized about 700 miles of fencing along certain stretches of land between the border of the United States and Mexico.

At the time the act was being considered, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and Chuck Schumer were all members of the Senate. (Schumer of New York is now the Senate minority leader.)

Obama, Clinton, Schumer and 23 other Democratic senators voted in favor of the act when it passed in the Senate by a vote of 80 to 19.

you never answered my question by the way...

why didn’t trump threaten to shut down the govt for his border wall when the republicans could easily pass a budget that included it? Any shutdown would have lasted less than 24 hours because the republicans and trump would not be able to blame anyone but themselves.

 

[ChicagoTiger85]

Exactly. You could go to Atlanta at 3am and see that the security lines are minimal.

This point of view is just as dumb as the people who’ve said there’s no effect at all. Some airports seem not to be affected at all so far, while others have issues at certain times. Quit being so partisan.

 

[CU Alumnus]

Is the govt still taking money from your paycheck? If so its not really shutdown.

Of course they are. This IS the federal government we're talking about.

Many of the things that are closed will not have an immediate impact but over time it is a major problem and will cause the economy to slow. Don’t be so short sighted.

FDA being shutdown is a big deal - food is not being inspected, New Drug Applications and generics are not being reviewed delaying potentially life saving drugs entering the market.

TSA agents are working for free right now, but there is a breaking point at which most will stop showing up for work because they will require a paycheck of some kind. That will affect business/economy in a big way!

IRS is going to have a lot of difficulty processing tax returns and getting refunds out to millions of Americans, where that money would be injected back into the economy. Not a positive for the economy.

Not all of that is shut down, I think. The way I understand it is that instead of a single budget, many parts of the government put through their individual budgets for approval and got them through. That's why things like the military are still running 100%.

I know 2 TSA agents in Columbia. In both cases they are the only source of income in their house. They say it’s tight on money and they haven’t eaten out in a month but they’re ok so far on essentials.

Both voted for Trump but said he has lost their vote. They wouldn’t vote for Hilary or nothing like that, they just would sit the next one out if he runs again. It doesn’t matter in S.C. but he could be losing votes in closer states over this.

I do think Trump doesn't realize that many people didn't so much vote for him, as they did vote against Hillary.

Trump has claimed on numerous occasions that he can declare a national emergency and bypass congress to build his wall. Knowing that he always tells the truth, what is he waiting for?? He appears to be screwing up a lot of people's lives.

Didn't he put through a proposal Saturday that Schumer and Pelosi refused to even look at? I don't think they want to open the government back up either.

The point is despite who claims they will take the blame for what, this is a two-way street.

Times change- the Air Force didn’t exist prior to 1947. Any interest in abolishing it?

Actually it did and has since WW1. It was the Army Air Corps but effectively the same thing.

 

[FLaw47]

I got a feeling that Trumps wall will save us billions in the long run.

F your feelings. Facts or bust.

 

[nealchick]

Don’t follow mainstream media very closely, if we agree it is pure coincidence or maybe the truth.

He had $3B for security including some wall/fencing when he walked away in December and created the shutdown. He just wanted more. Newsflash: he couldn’t spend anywhere near what he is asking before the end of the budget year. So, the $5B is purely a talking point as he will need another appropriation next year.

I’m in favor of more security, but a wall or fence doesn’t provide that. My experiences with walls/fences lead me to believe that a physical wall by itself is a complete waste. If he truthfully believes that a wall is the answer, he needs to find a general or two that is willing to speak truth to power at the expense of losing their career. The generals that he has had tried to tactfully steer him in another direction. I’m not sure Trump understands tact.

Trump needs to find a way to declare victory and end the shutdown before something bad happens (economy, terrorism, etc) that ends up ruining him. Per his own words, he proudly owns the shutdown..... and all of the things associated with it.

He never asked for only a wall. Much of the 5.7 billion is for other stuff like border patrol, technology advancements, judges etc.

I love when people say wall don't work. I'd like to see their houses or cars or a hat, umbrella or coat during a rainstorm. Such ignorant talking point bullshit.

N---

 

[nytigerfan]

F your feelings. Facts or bust.

Interesting poll done by cards against humanity (results make liberals and conservatives look bad). More than half of the people surveyed who support Trump's border wall think that they could get past it if they were an illegal immigrant.

https://www.businessinsider.com/cards-against-humanity-shows-inconsistent-americans-2019-1

 

[firegiver]

no we don't. Many of us try to vote for smaller government and we NEVER get it

Then why do you keep voting for them?

 

[nytigerfan]

He never asked for only a wall. Much of the 5.7 billion is for other stuff like border patrol, technology advancements, judges etc.

I love when people say wall don't work. I'd like to see their houses or cars or a hat, umbrella or coat during a rainstorm. Such ignorant talking point bullshit.

N---

Why do you think it will work? We already have fencing along large parts of the border, and according trump we are being infiltrated by roving hordes of terrorist across our southern border all the time. You cant have it both ways.

 

[1Clemson]

Actually it did and has since WW1. It was the Army Air Corps but effectively the same thing.

I was focusing on waste and lack of justification- the USAAC didn't require duplicative bureaucracy. It was like the Marines are to the Navy- a specialty fighting unit supported by a larger department's supply, personnel and administrative functions. Why isn't there a Department of the Marines?

Lets choose a few more 'unimportant' or 'recent' agencies that are not original: FAA, NTSB, CDC, FCC, CIA, SBA, FDA, NASA, Secret Service, Border Patrol, ICE, NHA, USDA, VA, Fanny Mae, FHMA, SEC, FBI, DIA, NSA, and the list goes on. Shall we close all of them? My point was- the federal government does a lot of important thing that make the US what it is (also does a lot of inefficient things), just declaring an agency created after the adoption of the constitution a waste without understanding its purpose is foolhardy.

 

[1Clemson]

He never asked for only a wall. Much of the 5.7 billion is for other stuff like border patrol, technology advancements, judges etc.

I love when people say wall don't work. I'd like to see their houses or cars or a hat, umbrella or coat during a rainstorm. Such ignorant talking point bullshit.

N---

My military experience (Army Engineer) tells me that all of the other items in your list are far more important than a wall- and can agreement to be funded. Without better surveillance and increased personnel on patrol, a physical barrier is a complete waste of funds.

Herr Trump keeps moving the goal posts and insisting on a physical wall rather than increased security measures. A 'wall' is a campaign talking point that will be argued; increased security without focusing on a wall will readily pass, but Trump loses the campaign point. He should better define what border security means, negotiate a settlement based on security rather than any specific physical barrier, then declare victory. This mess will end when Trump decides to end it and not before.

 

[firegiver]

It's all just political theater. Trump promised a big beautiful wall all along the southern border.

He could have funded it at anytime during the last two years, while he had both houses. But the pubs in the house were afraid to do it because spending Billions on a wall that Trump promised Mexico would pay for, sounded dumb.
Now they are willing to be loyal and fight for it because they have an enemy to play off, the new democratic majority in the house. Now they have their strawman to play off of.
Facts are that Trump shut down the government as political theater. Objectively, none of this makes sense. He can fund the government and then negotiate funding his wall. But that's not divisive enough. He's spinning the narrative that Dem's aren't tough on immigration.
Meanwhile, its fine to me if he wants to build some barriers, he's already costing our economy billions in this shutdown. But I can understand the rational of not caving to him, because whats to stop the president from shutting down the government everytime they want to throw a temper tantrum.
Either way, Trump alone, manufactured this crisis. People can act like its 4d underwater chess, but it's not complicated and it is actually hurting American citizens.

 

[Every name taken]

Then why do you keep voting for them?

Oh, I've tried libertarian. The only ones that will really make government smaller never get elected.

 

[1Clemson]

It's all just political theater. Trump promised a big beautiful wall all along the southern border.

He could have funded it at anytime during the last two years, while he had both houses. But the pubs in the house were afraid to do it because spending Billions on a wall that Trump promised Mexico would pay for, sounded dumb.
Now they are willing to be loyal and fight for it because they have an enemy to play off, the new democratic majority in the house. Now they have their strawman to play off of.
Facts are that Trump shut down the government as political theater. Objectively, none of this makes sense. He can fund the government and then negotiate funding his wall. But that's not divisive enough. He's spinning the narrative that Dem's aren't tough on immigration.
Meanwhile, its fine to me if he wants to build some barriers, he's already costing our economy billions in this shutdown. But I can understand the rational of not caving to him, because whats to stop the president from shutting down the government everytime they want to throw a temper tantrum.
Either way, Trump alone, manufactured this crisis. People can act like its 4d underwater chess, but it's not complicated and it is actually hurting American citizens.

This.

 

[firegiver]

Oh, I've tried libertarian. The only ones that will really make government smaller never get elected.

im not opposed to shrinking portions of the government. cough dept of education cough.
They seem to do more harm than good in some instances.

Its strange to me that Republicans act like they are conservatives these days, yet they tend just run up debt and spend just as much as dems... just without paying for it.

 

[nealchick]

We need to focus on the real problems and real solutions rather than talking points and campaign promises.

1. Number of illegals has declined without wall.
   
2. Drugs are run through border checkpoints, via sea and air, or via tunnels or manufactured domestically - wall would be relatively useless
3. Many illegals also pay for entitlements that they don't receive- why not just focus on restricting entitlements?
4. The renegotiated trade agreement is not in effect and won't be until or if approved by Congress.
   
5. Illegals are less likely to be involved in crime than US citizens on a per 100,000 basis (they are afraid of deportation)

I favor stronger border security, a comprehensive immigration plan that is mutually beneficial to the US and the immigrant, and decreased entitlement eligibility- all of which can be obtained without a wall or fence.

1. somewhat though arrests are up. So policy change is helping to deter some from trying to come.

2. Almost 100% of Heroin and Methamphetamine comes from our souther border. Close to zero is manufactured domestically. Using the argument about tunnels is not a reason to not have a better barrier, quite the contrary. The MSM talking point about drugs coming through border checkpoints is an unverified theory repeated over and over so long that the ignorant masses take it for fact. It is not. Even if it were why should we ignore an easy point of entry?

If you have an ant problem and your windows and doors are closed but there are gaps between your foundation and the sill, do you ignore that and claim that your doors and windows are working properly so there is no issue?

3. Just as many that "pay for entitlements" overclaim their taxes. For example, if they have children in Guatemala, they claim them as dependants so they have little to no witholding. Additionally, many people think that they don't receive and cash returns; that is completely false.

4. It better be approved by Congress. Whey would they be against a beneficial deal to the US?

5. Another completely ignorant liberal talking point. An illegal is already committing a crime just by being here illegally. They are by definition 100% criminals. So throw out that bullshit talking point on per capita garbage.

N---

 

[nealchick]

Why do you think it will work? We already have fencing along large parts of the border, and according trump we are being infiltrated by roving hordes of terrorist across our southern border all the time. You cant have it both ways.

Because the feet on the ground, the border agents, those that see it every day, say that it works in places where they have it. Who knows better than them? Likely neither you or I.

Do you have a wall on your property, with a door maybe? Or do you live on a cot on an open lot?

I have walls, doors, windows, etc. When a neighbor comes over and uses the door they can come in. Heck I even have the Jehovahs witnesses sit down occasionally. But if someone sneaks in the back, jimmys the door or breaks a window, they are gonna see me express my second amendment rights and calmly ask them to leave. If they refuse I'm not gonna offer them a bed and a sandwich.

N---

 

[nealchick]

My military experience (Army Engineer) tells me that all of the other items in your list are far more important than a wall- and can agreement to be funded. Without better surveillance and increased personnel on patrol, a physical barrier is a complete waste of funds.

Herr Trump keeps moving the goal posts and insisting on a physical wall rather than increased security measures. A 'wall' is a campaign talking point that will be argued; increased security without focusing on a wall will readily pass, but Trump loses the campaign point. He should better define what border security means, negotiate a settlement based on security rather than any specific physical barrier, then declare victory. This mess will end when Trump decides to end it and not before.

Have you read what he is requesting? He is asking for those things as well. I think much of the chatter here and elsewhere is due to a lack of knowledge.

BTW, thank you for your service!

I do build walls and fences for residential and commercial applications and they do work.

N---

 

[MBRO]

2. Almost 100% of Heroin and Methamphetamine comes from our souther border. Close to zero is manufactured domestically. Using the argument about tunnels is not a reason to not have a better barrier, quite the contrary. The MSM talking point about drugs coming through border checkpoints is an unverified theory repeated over and over so long that the ignorant masses take it for fact. It is not. Even if it were why should we ignore an easy point of entry?

The vast majority comes through legal Ports of Entry. Walls will do nothing to stop that.

The DEA says this, not MSM.

https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/files/2018-11/DIR-032-18 2018 NDTA final low resolution.pdf#page=31

 

[Mac Tiger]

We get what we vote for

I guess not. I remember a lot of people voting for a wall. When will they get it?

 

[1Clemson]

1. somewhat though arrests are up. So policy change is helping to deter some from trying to come.

2. Almost 100% of Heroin and Methamphetamine comes from our souther border. Close to zero is manufactured domestically. Using the argument about tunnels is not a reason to not have a better barrier, quite the contrary. The MSM talking point about drugs coming through border checkpoints is an unverified theory repeated over and over so long that the ignorant masses take it for fact. It is not. Even if it were why should we ignore an easy point of entry?

If you have an ant problem and your windows and doors are closed but there are gaps between your foundation and the sill, do you ignore that and claim that your doors and windows are working properly so there is no issue?

3. Just as many that "pay for entitlements" overclaim their taxes. For example, if they have children in Guatemala, they claim them as dependants so they have little to no witholding. Additionally, many people think that they don't receive and cash returns; that is completely false.

4. It better be approved by Congress. Whey would they be against a beneficial deal to the US?

5. Another completely ignorant liberal talking point. An illegal is already committing a crime just by being here illegally. They are by definition 100% criminals. So throw out that bullshit talking point on per capita garbage.

N---

1. Seems like we agree to a point. I like cost effective policy change.
2. Ever been to Missouri, Kentucky, West Va? tons of meth is produced domestically
3. Seems we agree to a point - they pay and they benefit which was my only point.
4. I haven't looked into the details, I hope Congress does. I do not trust Trump alone to tell the complete truth on the matter, this could be another self-promotion.
5. An obvious omission on my part "violent crime" - yes they are all 100% in violation of immigration laws. If we add nonviolent crimes (drug use/possession, DUI, underage drinking, reckless driving, cheating on taxes, etc) to the US citizen list, we have a majority criminal nation, so I suggest focusing on 'violent crime'.

For the record, labels are weak when meant to denigrate- I'm about as far from a liberal as I am a Trumpster. Both groups should be run from office. I focus simply on facts and sound policy.

 

[StSimonsIslandTiger]

Yikes

Double yikes at all the irony here.

You know that the Senate and Mitch McConnell already passed a clean spending bill, one that will also pass the house, right?

Mitch won't bring it up for a vote again because one person won't sign it because he's not getting his racist wall.

Obama built wall.

George W built wall.

Clinton built wall.

Were their wall segments racist?

Schumer and Pelosi are on well-recorded record as supporting expansion of the wall. That is, before Trump was elected.

 

[1Clemzunfan]

We need to focus on the real problems and real solutions rather than talking points and campaign promises.

1. Number of illegals has declined without wall.
   
2. Drugs are run through border checkpoints, via sea and air, or via tunnels or manufactured domestically - wall would be relatively useless
3. Many illegals also pay for entitlements that they don't receive- why not just focus on restricting entitlements?
4. The renegotiated trade agreement is not in effect and won't be until or if approved by Congress.
   
5. Illegals are less likely to be involved in crime than US citizens on a per 100,000 basis (they are afraid of deportation)

I favor stronger border security, a comprehensive immigration plan that is mutually beneficial to the US and the immigrant, and decreased entitlement eligibility- all of which can be obtained without a wall or fence.

Great post.