Karen Handel: "I do not support a livable wage"
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im for anything to keep uncle sam out of our lives.
im not a conservative by any means. i am much more a republican leaning libertarian.
if it was up to me, it would be a 10% flat sales tax collected by the states sent to dc.
the only thing i would use the money for is the defense dept and vets.
everything else the feds do, id sent those functions back to the states.
absolutely defies logic to support sending more and more of your wages to washington or new york.
just plain stupid.
keep currency local.
i think minimum wage was $3.15 an hour in 1986.
conservatives fought like mad to stop it from increasing.
think about if they had won that anti jesus philosophy.
what would min wage be now, still $3.15?
conservatives fought like mad to stop it from increasing.
think about if they had won that anti jesus philosophy.
what would min wage be now, still $3.15?
Seattle has other things going on that is not related to the minimum wage law. They have had a tech sector boom that has also created a construction boom. There is more going on here than just a minimum wage hike.
Liberals didn't make the Obamacare tax? Please, tell me more...
lol the truth hurts i know.
but as long as you believe jesus died on the cross for YOUR BEHAVIOR, its cool right?
And you don't think their downfall is due to the lack of jobs in some of those areas? NAFTA and the shift towards a global economy completely decimated the skilled labor job positions. For example, I know the families of what were the biggest providers of textile jobs in SC. The textile industry provided many skilled labor jobs to this state. When the industry collapsed here, it was completely caused by a more global market that created much cheaper labor costs in other countries. I was born and raised in Greenwood and witnessed the companies and the jobs they provided completely disappear, leaving many families without a job.
Fast forward to today... and I would agree that those jobs will never come back due to automation, which will only be accelerated by a large increase in the minimum wage.
The assumption itt about all the poor being lazy, and the frequent downright vitriolic attitude towards them, is asinine. It shows that many of you (I'm not saying all) have never had hard times or have never interacted on any real level with people struggling to make it. It shows that many of you come from a position of ignorance concerning the lives of those struggling. Sure, there are some bad apples, but to make the assumption that all people in poverty are lazy and unwilling to work is totally foolish.
I had a waitress making $25+ an hour (once you included tips) quit so it would not interfere with her benefits. I started to enforce them claiming their cash tips.
For both parties.
If a worker gets $15 an hour their employer better be getting that much in value. I doubt a door greeter, or a fast-food employee adds that in value. So those jobs will evaporate.
It will affect EVERYONE. The entire pay scale. At least for hourly. Salaried will be affected as well, but it's harder to quantify.
And who is to say that small business owner will make a profit? Just because someone owns a business doesn't mean they are "raking in the cash". Some barely squeak by. So they will go under or cut people loose.
As far as the "work harder" - I have my doubts since the person didn't actually earn the pay raise - it was a gift from the government in the form of a mandate.
The solution to that is grow the economy. It's not something the government can fix by making new laws.
I believe Seattle has implemented this on a scale system over a few years.
Plus this whole thing gets a whole lot worse when it affects the high-priced items like automobiles, manufactured goods, etc.
It will also affect housing prices since now you have to pay your contractors more.
so you are looking at "value" to one self.
the other side looks at value to the general welfare of the country as a whole.
there is more to the concept of "value" than simply monetary in nature alone.
but you sound like you are in the trench in the war, so it would be hard for you to see.
the other side looks at value to the general welfare of the country as a whole.
there is more to the concept of "value" than simply monetary in nature alone.
but you sound like you are in the trench in the war, so it would be hard for you to see.
This thread is crazy. You're worth what the market says you're worth.
And what's this nonsense that 40 hours is the magical cap to earn a lifestyle wage? I work more than 40 hours a week. I also travel weekly away from my family in addition to those hours. My wife works weekends. Many of my dads hourly workers pull overtime to make more money.
We're becoming too soft. You shouldn't be able to punch a 9-5 clock at a cake job with no skills and make over $31K per year. That's absolutely nuts.
If you want to make more money, work more or make yoursef more valuable. That simple.
And what's this nonsense that 40 hours is the magical cap to earn a lifestyle wage? I work more than 40 hours a week. I also travel weekly away from my family in addition to those hours. My wife works weekends. Many of my dads hourly workers pull overtime to make more money.
We're becoming too soft. You shouldn't be able to punch a 9-5 clock at a cake job with no skills and make over $31K per year. That's absolutely nuts.
If you want to make more money, work more or make yoursef more valuable. That simple.
Im now positive you really have no idea what you are talking about.
I have NEVER met a Christian that wasn't for helping their fellow man. NEVER seen or heard of a church that didn't offer support, on many levels, to those in need.
Is there a fund I can donate to that will help people who think like this? What the heck does Jesus have to do with a minimum wage? You obviously don't understand the point of opposition to the minimum wage. You're caught up in the leftist idea that somehow it is so business can take advantage of people. There are not many forces that have done more to suppress wage growth than the minimum wage. Get a clue dude.
@kgwillison
yes growing the economy is number 1.
and the best way is small business.
an american in every small town walking into a bank or credit union to get a small business loan.
should set a goal that 1 new small business will be started every day in my town.
the small business administration should be our focus.
number 2 would be expanding markets abroad for us manufactured products.
number 3 is infrastructure.
Getting goods and services from poi t a to point b the fastest the most efficient and most environmental friendly way possibly.
which trump is trying to do.
but msm and the republicans and democrats in congress are trying to have us focus on russians
yes growing the economy is number 1.
and the best way is small business.
an american in every small town walking into a bank or credit union to get a small business loan.
should set a goal that 1 new small business will be started every day in my town.
the small business administration should be our focus.
number 2 would be expanding markets abroad for us manufactured products.
number 3 is infrastructure.
Getting goods and services from poi t a to point b the fastest the most efficient and most environmental friendly way possibly.
which trump is trying to do.
but msm and the republicans and democrats in congress are trying to have us focus on russians
1st of all I would hope that no American wants capable people on welfare. It's not good for anybody including the people on it. Most of the people I know on it get complacent with it and they will never improve their way of life and also they teach their children that it's an acceptable way of life. These people are leaches on the rest of us. It definitely isn't fair for me to give up a large portion of my life working to feed people who get to lay around and watch tv, enjoy a government issued smart phone. Most of these people eat really well considering they are given section 8 housing and more food stamps than they know what to do with. Not to mention a lot of women (according to how many children they decide to bring into this situation) receive $5-10k in a tax return. In other words a welfare recipient that knows how to work the system can live better than most middle class Americans. I don't see how anyone could think that this is fair. On a side note these same people like to use the emergency room as doctors office since that is also free to them. Cost the shit out of the rest of us in more ways than just the money. But that adds up to be hundreds of millions of dollars a year in and of itself.
On to your second sentence. You cannot pay people more money than what the business can bring in. I would think that is just common sense, but apparently some folks live in lola land and money grows on trees. Let's just take McDonald's for example. If they pay all of their employee's $15 an hour what do you think the price of value meal is going to go up to? I'm guessing $10-12 a meal. How do you think that will affect their business? Do you think the people in poverty could then afford to eat a meal a McDonald's?
As far as community college goes. If the government can find a way to cut back on welfare spending and instead put that money towards further education for the poor. I could get on board with that. But our welfare spending is through the roof so no I'm not in favor of tax increases for further education of the poor.
Next I don't support a permanent lower class. I wish the world was all sunshine and rainbows, but I'm a realist, and you are correct. The lower class isn't going anywhere. It will always be there. You can't fix stupid. And to be honest with you that's who make's up the lower class. Most of them aren't intelligent enough to fix the situation they are in. Education has very little to do with what I refer to as stupid. I'm talking about people who don't have common sense.
Human's are by nature survivalist. You either have what it takes or you don't. So why not let nature take it's course and rid us of the bad gene pools?
What the pro-increasing the minimum wage crowd is proposing is not helping their fellow man.
The are proposing FORCING their fellow man to help ANOTHER fellow man.
I have great respect for the Navy Seals and that they deserve every penny of their pensions. However, there are plenty of republicans who feel strongly that pensions are nothing but an entitlement and should be limited.
It would be nice if at some point we could just stop with the pejoratives on every effin' comment. "Right-wing", "liberal"... that argument would work great without having to denigrate what you consider "the other side" every single time you feel the need by adding a side to the discussion. It is part of the reason we are where we are today as a country, which is far short of where we should be.
Now then, yes eventually robotics could take over a lot of low-level jobs. But there are going to have to be a lot of people that do time-value studies to see which jobs could even be replaced. Then a lot of people that will actually have to build and service the robots.
And eventually, there will be a lot of jobs in alternative energy and a lot of jobs in infrastructure rebuilding, because we won't have a choice. But all of those jobs are just as tenuous as losing jobs to robotics. It won't happen until it makes sense economically... and it is a huge short-term expense for a long-term solution. Not a lot of major companies are smart enough to do that much long range planning in the age of short-term stock values being so important.
--Mr. DT
did you report her?
wonder how many kids she was trying to feed cloth shelter and insure?
single parent?
all pensions to any ELECTED official should be eliminated immediatedly.
elected officials dont deserve pensions
Liberals are living in a utopia that if you raise the minimum wage to $15/hour, then everyone will go up proportionally, prices will stay the same, and everything is great. Sounds wonderful, but that's not how the world works.
Companies are not going to lose profit margin b/c of their kind hearts. I wish it was true, but their not. Can many afford to, yes? Will they, no.
There are five things to remember, wages, # of jobs, location, government assistance, and purchase power. I've seen many make arguments about one or two of these things, but they are all interlinked. And there is no way to make all four go up or stay the same. Governments have tried, and they've all failed. They're are going to be losers, no matter how you look at it.
Location is probably the easiest thing to tackle, but also one of the hardest to politically explain b/c it makes things complicated and the American public likes things simple. The problem with a 'one size fits all' legislation is the country, like its citzens, is not all one size. If you instituted a $15/hour minimum in Northern Virginia (NOVA), it would do very little since a cashier at McD's already makes that. Its what the market demands. But in Jackson, Mississippi, that's not the case. $15/hour is an easy selling position, but saying it works here so it will work everywhere the same is not the case.
Let's raise the minimum wage to $15/hour and essentially double the lowest paid worker. So in the McD's example (Jackson MS for this example, not NOVA b/c nothing happens in NOVA), we've increase every cashier from 15K to 30K for the year. And every cook 20K to 30K (assuming they made $10/hour). Now out of the kindness of the owner's heart, he/she will eat the profits, right? Wrong. The owner has 3 options. Have current employees work more and hire less, automate and hire less, and/or raise prices. We know its going to be a combination of the three.
You can't just raise prices to cover the cost. Customers are too sensitive to prices rising too quickly. Doing so will run off your customer base. Its ends up being a combination of the three.
So what happens at the macro level to all our issues. Wages, they go up; # of jobs go down; amount of people on assistance goes down, but amount needed for ones on assistance goes up; purchase power varies depending on where you are on the wage ladder; prices go up, but not all at once, its gradual. And as prices go up, the purchase power for many goes down. So there is a time issue here.
The idea that if you move it to $15/hour it will be good forever is a fallacy. You will eventually have to move it to $30/hour and so on and so on.
Companies are not going to lose profit margin b/c of their kind hearts. I wish it was true, but their not. Can many afford to, yes? Will they, no.
There are five things to remember, wages, # of jobs, location, government assistance, and purchase power. I've seen many make arguments about one or two of these things, but they are all interlinked. And there is no way to make all four go up or stay the same. Governments have tried, and they've all failed. They're are going to be losers, no matter how you look at it.
Location is probably the easiest thing to tackle, but also one of the hardest to politically explain b/c it makes things complicated and the American public likes things simple. The problem with a 'one size fits all' legislation is the country, like its citzens, is not all one size. If you instituted a $15/hour minimum in Northern Virginia (NOVA), it would do very little since a cashier at McD's already makes that. Its what the market demands. But in Jackson, Mississippi, that's not the case. $15/hour is an easy selling position, but saying it works here so it will work everywhere the same is not the case.
Let's raise the minimum wage to $15/hour and essentially double the lowest paid worker. So in the McD's example (Jackson MS for this example, not NOVA b/c nothing happens in NOVA), we've increase every cashier from 15K to 30K for the year. And every cook 20K to 30K (assuming they made $10/hour). Now out of the kindness of the owner's heart, he/she will eat the profits, right? Wrong. The owner has 3 options. Have current employees work more and hire less, automate and hire less, and/or raise prices. We know its going to be a combination of the three.
You can't just raise prices to cover the cost. Customers are too sensitive to prices rising too quickly. Doing so will run off your customer base. Its ends up being a combination of the three.
So what happens at the macro level to all our issues. Wages, they go up; # of jobs go down; amount of people on assistance goes down, but amount needed for ones on assistance goes up; purchase power varies depending on where you are on the wage ladder; prices go up, but not all at once, its gradual. And as prices go up, the purchase power for many goes down. So there is a time issue here.
The idea that if you move it to $15/hour it will be good forever is a fallacy. You will eventually have to move it to $30/hour and so on and so on.
That will be a net loss in jobs. A big one.
Not to mention that if you can work in a factory that builds robots, with few exceptions you probably aren't making minimum wage anyway so you aren't the worker that will be replaced by the robot.
There is no problem for anyone desiring to earn a "liveable wage".....show up when you're supposed to, look out for your employers best interest, stay off of illegal drugs and you will do fine in this country. Every business owner that I know has the same main problem....we cannot find adequate manpower that is honest and responsible. We pay high school students 11.00 per hour in upstate SC....haven't even tried to hire anyone for minimum wage in decades.
in the updated calculations I took the 300 for groceries out because at minimum wage you qualify for food stamps (which im not a fan of) that are already in place. Also you probably qualify for utility credits. so thats 300 to 450 back in the budget. Which moves your hosing budget up to 500 hundred with 150/month which will probably get you a brand new kia/corrolla etc which get good gas mileage. It will absolutely buy you a nice motorcycle. If you go the moped route you can basically take the whole 150 plus some of the gas back out of the picture. 20/week will definitely take care of the tank. Sure cut your own hair, going to a barber is not a need, neither is going to a movie (not that you can't watch any movie you want for free on a phone already which is included in the calculations).
And how many people actually live by themselves? Two adults working by themselves (and never getting any kind of raise btw, normally min wage doesn't last forever even in the mcds drive through, walmart greeter positions) puts a housing budget using the same model at 1000/month (or obviously you could call it 750 and spread that money out other places).
You can definitely get by on those numbers, if you budget and don't spend money on lavish unneeded things. This is a living wage not a get to do wtf I please wage.
educated me?
my reasoning is that the min wage has been raised 3-5 times since my first job in 1986 at min wage washing dishes at the southerner restaurant in easley sc.
god bless todd and his family.
anyway, after every raise, i did not see any uptick in the transfer of wealth to the poor.
inflation returned that wealth back to the ruling class.
i dont understand the stance of pay a man as little as you can to maximize your profit margin.
not far off from slavery.
finding a long term value business monetary cycle that rewards all cogs sustains positive biz growth and very lucrative consistent profit margins.
small minded biz executives think selfishly hindering their ability to see the company over a lifetime.
sure does add pressure to running a biz i bet.
putting out fires all the time, great strategy
Good post overall but I do have to mention something - The cook will have to be increasedfrom 20K to probably closer to 40K. You can't just bring everyone making below the MW line up to that line and leave it. If cook is a higher-skill position it will require a higher wage - otherwise nobody will want to be a cook.
People are missing another part of the issue, longer-term. the fact that economics is relative. As input money (wages, etc) go up, output money (costs of goods) goes up. Therefore all we would be doing is making every dollar worth less. ESPECIALLY if an entire country does it. It works in pockets because it only affects a small percentage of their economy since those pockets are not self-sufficient.
Arbitrarily raising the minimum wage is an idea that is mathematically unsound. But it sure sounds good so people jump on it.
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"value" definition
employee process 1- fill an job at $7.50/hr. quit 3 times in 6 months. not enough pay. 3 re hires to fill one job over 6 months.
employee process 2-fill job at $12/hr. original employee still on job.
experience, trust, knowlwdge of product and business processes and procedures.
which process cost more?
employee process 1- fill an job at $7.50/hr. quit 3 times in 6 months. not enough pay. 3 re hires to fill one job over 6 months.
employee process 2-fill job at $12/hr. original employee still on job.
experience, trust, knowlwdge of product and business processes and procedures.
which process cost more?
Damn fine post. Show up, do your job, leave the drama at home, and you can do well.
You are right. He sounds like the type of guy who would be singing the tune on how to get out of that ****ed up situation. Problem solving some of these people should try it.
I agree. You just don't realize that this statement is the most compelling argument there is against a minimum wage. Do you tell your kids to strive for C's? If they get C's, do you expect them to get into Clemson? We should help people strive for excellence. Part of that is understanding a person's value. What's a job that has true value that pays less than a livable wage? If you think of one, why does it pay so much less?
It's a harsh reality but if there's a job that requires no real skill and has no supply problems in terms of candidates for the job; it won't pay well. It shouldn't pay well. The law of supply and demand exists and denying it is just like denying the existence of gravity. It's there whether you want to believe it or not. The best way to increase wages is to help people get the skills they need to seek jobs for which there is a demand for workers. Instead, we just hook people on the government dole, tell them we're going to fight for a livable wage for them while at the same time we are consigning them to a life that is less than we would demand for ourselves. If you don't get that at this point, I don't know what to tell you. Wages aren't the problem. There should be no minimum wage. What we should have instead is a movement to empower and enable our workers so they are in demand from employers rather than jobs being in demand with excess workers. The skills gap in America is ENORMOUS!
No I did not, been there done that to no avail before. Their word vs yours kind of thing. She has one child and lived with the baby daddy.
I do appreciate the cogent reply without name-calling.
I think where your argument goes wrong in my opinion is assuming that most people on government help are like this, or are not trying to improve themselves.
Part of the reason I get so worked up about this very subject is that I grew up pretty poor. If not for the social safety net, I would be screwed. My dad grew up an unwanted child in an orphanage. He got a skilled job early on, but one that was rendered moot by the early computer age. Then, he became disabled with severe back problems. We needed government assistance to live, as my mom was barely a HS graduate and had no skills and couldn't find a job doing much of anything.
After my dad earned disability for a while, he received government benefits to re-train into a computer-based desk job. He worked that job for a while... and was able to provide a stable enough home life for both of his children to go on to bigger and better things... my brother works in the computer industry, and I work in the food industry. Both having improved our lot in life from where we were then. My dad eventually became too disabled to work at all, but not before he had a good 15 year run in the defense contracting industry.
If not for the government assistance when I was little, we would've spent every waking hour wondering where we were going to eat next, where we would live. We didn't have to, and I've made a better life for me, my wife, and my kids.
Yes, I get that there are SOME lazy people that are not ever looking to get off assistance... but I really think throwing the baby out with the bathwater is not the answer.
I know this is not about minimum wage, but I do feel like it is coming time where governments (local or federal) are going to have to step in and address things from that standpoint. Wages just aren't keeping up with the cost of living. People that work full-time should not also have to be on government assistance. But places like Walmart and McDonald's depend on the social safety net to fill in the gaps that they won't as a corporation. And that's not right.
--Mr. DT
ahh i see @Willence
you place value on skill at a higher degree than i do.
1- your time period
2- general welfare
3-skill classification imaginary breakdown of value created by a free market with govt influence meddling and control.
4--then profit margin
