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Larry Elder speaking facts...

Larry Elder, like most of the media in this country at the moment, has a very clear agenda. He is preaching to HIS congregation.
I am curious as to what you think his agenda is and who his congregation is.
Larry is a black man who points out in his tweets and on the radio that the majority of minority murder is caused by other minorities. He points out that if BLM was being honest then they would focus on all minority deaths and not just the few that come at the hands of police officers.

I won't get into an argument online over this I am just curious.
 
I am curious as to what you think his agenda is and who his congregation is.
Larry is a black man who points out in his tweets and on the radio that the majority of minority murder is caused by other minorities. He points out that if BLM was being honest then they would focus on all minority deaths and not just the few that come at the hands of police officers.

I won't get into an argument online over this I am just curious.
I know you are trolling but I will give you a factual answer. His listeners are the conservative right who are overwhelming white. If he was a honest man he would know BLM represents his ass also and their discussion is on systematic racism with the justice system and police brutality. He or you can find many other African American organization in major cities that focuses on black on black crime and gun violence. As mentioned by @DecemberGrad Elders creates a narrative and opinion that fits for his audience.
 
I know you are trolling but I will give you a factual answer. His listeners are the conservative right who are overwhelming white. If he was a honest man he would know BLM represents his ass also and their discussion is on systematic racism with the justice system and police brutality. He or you can find many other African American organization in major cities that focuses on black on black crime and gun violence. As mentioned by @DecemberGrad Elders creates a narrative and opinion that fits for his audience.
So he’s an Uncle Tom in your opinion?
 
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I am curious as to what you think his agenda is and who his congregation is.
Larry is a black man who points out in his tweets and on the radio that the majority of minority murder is caused by other minorities. He points out that if BLM was being honest then they would focus on all minority deaths and not just the few that come at the hands of police officers.

I won't get into an argument online over this I am just curious.
I don't want to argue about it either. I don't know if thats his honest opinion or if he's pandering. But factually its not supported by the data.
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I know you are trolling but I will give you a factual answer. His listeners are the conservative right who are overwhelming white. If he was a honest man he would know BLM represents his ass also and their discussion is on systematic racism with the justice system and police brutality. He or you can find many other African American organization in major cities that focuses on black on black crime and gun violence. As mentioned by @DecemberGrad Elders creates a narrative and opinion that fits for his audience.
I actually was not "trolling". I don't believe that Mr. Elder sets his views based on his audience. I believe that he states his views as he sees fit and he is lucky enough that there are a number of people that agree with him and listen to him. I think it is insulting when people say he is just playing to his audience.

I also have no problem with people disagreeing with his points of view. I can disagree with people without throwing insults at them. His viewpoint (and I am not saying it is or is not my viewpoint) is that more lives would be saved if people focused on black on black crime than concentrating on the relatively small number killed by the police. Agree with him or not but he is welcome to his opinion and people who insult him for having a different viewpoint are sad, insecure people.......in my humble opinion.
 
I don't want to argue about it either. I don't know if thats his honest opinion or if he's pandering. But factually its not supported by the data.
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I listen to him every now and then but I am not an expert on his viewpoints. I believe he is comparing situations where the accused in unarmed versus the larger number that include those carrying a weapon.
 
I actually was not "trolling". I don't believe that Mr. Elder sets his views based on his audience. I believe that he states his views as he sees fit and he is lucky enough that there are a number of people that agree with him and listen to him. I think it is insulting when people say he is just playing to his audience.

I also have no problem with people disagreeing with his points of view. I can disagree with people without throwing insults at them. His viewpoint (and I am not saying it is or is not my viewpoint) is that more lives would be saved if people focused on black on black crime than concentrating on the relatively small number killed by the police. Agree with him or not but he is welcome to his opinion and people who insult him for having a different viewpoint are sad, insecure people.......in my humble opinion.

His point was very clearly stated, he said that the claim that there is a disproportionate number of murders of black people by law enforcement is not true. It is factually true, and he is pandering to people like OP who will then go around spreading his lies. Shameful.
 
I don't want to argue about it either. I don't know if thats his honest opinion or if he's pandering. But factually its not supported by the data.
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Even your graph shows that almost twice as many white people have been killed by cops than black people but if you hear the media talk about it, cops seek out black people to kill but not whites because we are privileged.
 
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I don't want to argue about it either. I don't know if thats his honest opinion or if he's pandering. But factually its not supported by the data.
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What this chart doesn't do is talk about how the number has dropped dramatically year over year. Also, when you read into the statistics, the definition of unarmed becomes highly subjective. There are at least 7 of these incidents where the individual had a weapon but didn't wield it when they were shot. When viewing this in concert with violent crime statistics, it becomes easier to understand. All of which is to say it isn't as though we don't all see there is a problem. But as I said in another post, I see lots of looting, burning, robbing, beating, killing and screaming and very little talk of solutions. This won't be solved by stealing an Xbox from Target.
 
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Even your graph shows that almost twice as many white people have been killed by cops than black people but if you hear the media talk about it, cops seek out black people to kill but not whites because we are privileged.
Correct, but theres way more white people in the US and even for taking into account interactions per race, black folks are more likely to be killed.
 
Correct, but theres way more white people in the US and even for taking into account interactions per race, black folks are more likely to be killed.
Yes but the narrative is the police are racist and only kill black people ,at least the black people I know interpret it like that. To hear them tell it ,black people are being hunted down and killed , when in actuality any race can be killed at any time. Especially if you are armed and resisting.
 
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I know you are trolling but I will give you a factual answer. His listeners are the conservative right who are overwhelming white. If he was a honest man he would know BLM represents his ass also and their discussion is on systematic racism with the justice system and police brutality. He or you can find many other African American organization in major cities that focuses on black on black crime and gun violence. As mentioned by @DecemberGrad Elders creates a narrative and opinion that fits for his audience.

Would that make him an Uncle Tom? A black man who is acting in certain ways (maybe against what he knows to be true) and being subservient simply to gain favor with whites?
 
Yes but the narrative is the police are racist and only kill black people ,at least the black people I know interpret it like that. To hear them tell it ,black people are being hunted down and killed , when in actuality any race can be killed at any time. Especially if you are armed and resisting.
I don't know where you get your 'narrative' I'm guessing its not from actual people protesting, but rather from people reporting on the protests. Or worse, politicians demonizing others in order to radicalize their base and gain cult following.
 
I actually was not "trolling". I don't believe that Mr. Elder sets his views based on his audience. I believe that he states his views as he sees fit and he is lucky enough that there are a number of people that agree with him and listen to him. I think it is insulting when people say he is just playing to his audience.

I also have no problem with people disagreeing with his points of view. I can disagree with people without throwing insults at them. His viewpoint (and I am not saying it is or is not my viewpoint) is that more lives would be saved if people focused on black on black crime than concentrating on the relatively small number killed by the police. Agree with him or not but he is welcome to his opinion and people who insult him for having a different viewpoint are sad, insecure people.......in my humble opinion.


I believe personally that if these Black suspects the Police are arresting would simply go peaceably there would be NO deaths of Black persons being arrested

the act of resisting arrest puts their lives in grave danger

as I have watched this over the last months I now blame all of the persons who died while being arrested to be the problem

just listen to the police and things will be fine

resist and you may die and this is regardless of what the color of your skin is
 
I don't know where you get your 'narrative' I'm guessing its not from actual people protesting, but rather from people reporting on the protests. Or worse, politicians demonizing others in order to radicalize their base and gain cult following.
When is the last time CNN plastered a white guy getting killed by police all over the news? I'll hang up and listen. The sad thing is I knew this was coming, I saw an interview back in 2013 , it was a guy who had become friends with some of the elites. He said they were going to try to create a race war by using the news, he said they would only report when a black person is killed by white cops. I'm pretty sure this guy is dead now and I wish I could remember his name. He said a lot more in the interview but that's the only thing I remember because frankly I have just as many black family members as I do white, so I started really paying attention to that type of stuff.
 
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I don't want to argue about it either. I don't know if thats his honest opinion or if he's pandering. But factually its not supported by the data.
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You realize that in a country of over 300 million people, only around 6 black folks a year are shot and killed by police, according to that chart. If any of them were unjustified, the officers should be prosecuted fully. But those stats do not an alarming pattern make.
 
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You realize that in a country of over 300 million people, only around 6 black folks a year are shot and killed by police, according to that chart. If any of them were unjustified, the officers should be prosecuted fully. But those stats do not an alarming pattern make.
since 2015 ... 1301 people killed... Math?
 
I don't want to argue about it either. I don't know if thats his honest opinion or if he's pandering. But factually its not supported by the data.
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Killed versus murdered. It is a huge distinction if you want to use numbers as an argument.

Killed would be a situation where it was justified by the use of deadly force. These cases would lead to the celebration of the officer as a hero.

Murdered would be the cop acted incorrectly and is the actual numbers we should be looking at. These cases should lead to prosecution of the officer.

Seriously, someone get these numbers.
 
Were those deaths the result of the decedent’s idiotic actions?
it would be impossible to say wouldn't it? Obviously its a nuanced question that would have to be determined on a case by case basis. Did you know police unions block the public from viewing a police officers disciplinary history in many many precincts? Wouldn't that information be helpful in deterimining if only a few of the bad apples are doing most of the killing? Thats something thats being asked to change by the protestors.
 
Killed versus murdered. It is a huge distinction if you want to use numbers as an argument.

Killed would be a situation where it was justified by the use of deadly force. These cases would lead to the celebration of the officer as a hero.

Murdered would be the cop acted incorrectly and is the actual numbers we should be looking at. These cases should lead to prosecution of the officer.

Seriously, someone get these numbers.
I don't konw that killing someone that threatens your life makes you a hero. I think selfless sacrifice is more of a hero quality than raw self preservation.
 
I don't konw that killing someone that threatens your life makes you a hero. I think selfless sacrifice is more of a hero quality than raw self preservation.
I appreciate the genuine and mature way we are having the convo in this thread. Truly, thanks for that.

What makes them a hero is them volunteering to stand in that gap and help keep your family safe. Risking their lives. Daily.
Police unions are indeed an problem in some cases. Their nature is to defend all cops, even the bad ones, and that should not be the case. It’s a cultural thing. Cops should not tolerate bad cops in their midst.

That being said, my read on the situation is that the VAST majority of cops are coming from the right place and do their jobs professionally. They would give their life for the citizens they serve. I also believe that once the good cop has exhausted reasonable steps (if given the chance) and the suspect is still not complying AND is putting lives in grave danger, the cops must take potentially lethal action.
There are three types of people in the world: sheep, wolves, and shepherds. We need shepherds because there are wolves. Some cops are wolves, and those are the worst. Our society SHOULD demand they are removed and punished.
But it is NOT a systemic problem. It may become so if we run off the good guys and gals from police forces because, who needs the liability that if you care, are professional, and do everything right in the shooting of a black individual but are called racist and evil by default. Who would want to be a part of that?
I fear we are loosing too many good cops because of this. Then it really COULD become systemic.
 
I appreciate the genuine and mature way we are having the convo in this thread. Truly, thanks for that.

What makes them a hero is them volunteering to stand in that gap and help keep your family safe. Risking their lives. Daily.
Police unions are indeed an problem in some cases. Their nature is to defend all cops, even the bad ones, and that should not be the case. It’s a cultural thing. Cops should not tolerate bad cops in their midst.

That being said, my read on the situation is that the VAST majority of cops are coming from the right place and do their jobs professionally. They would give their life for the citizens they serve. I also believe that once the good cop has exhausted reasonable steps (if given the chance) and the suspect is still not complying AND is putting lives in grave danger, the cops must take potentially lethal action.
There are three types of people in the world: sheep, wolves, and shepherds. We need shepherds because there are wolves. Some cops are wolves, and those are the worst. Our society SHOULD demand they are removed and punished.
But it is NOT a systemic problem. It may become so if we run off the good guys and gals from police forces because, who needs the liability that if you care, are professional, and do everything right in the shooting of a black individual but are called racist and evil by default. Who would want to be a part of that?
I fear we are loosing too many good cops because of this. Then it really COULD become systemic.
If unions are protecting bad cops then the problem is by definition systemic. Cops don't volunteer, they are paid.
There are 2 types of people in the world citizens and government workers. Government workers with guns and discretion to kill deserve to have their power structure examined when they kill. You are innocent until proven guilty and citizens are upset with seeing police use leathal force in dubious circumstances.
Maybe its the militarization of the police? Maybe its the jaded cop with a ling history of mistakes being protected by the thin blue line. Maybe its the cozy nature some precincts have with right wing authoritarian mind set. If you view others as sheep and wolves maybe you arent a shepherds, maybe you're a tad bigoted. Empathy is what policing requires not self glory.
Maybe its a systemic problem that blacks receive longer sentences than whites. Why is that? Why do you think that happens?
 
If unions are protecting bad cops then the problem is by definition systemic. Cops don't volunteer, they are paid.
There are 2 types of people in the world citizens and government workers. Government workers with guns and discretion to kill deserve to have their power structure examined when they kill. You are innocent until proven guilty and citizens are upset with seeing police use leathal force in dubious circumstances.
Maybe its the militarization of the police? Maybe its the jaded cop with a ling history of mistakes being protected by the thin blue line. Maybe its the cozy nature some precincts have with right wing authoritarian mind set. If you view others as sheep and wolves maybe you arent a shepherds, maybe you're a tad bigoted. Empathy is what policing requires not self glory.
Maybe its a systemic problem that blacks receive longer sentences than whites. Why is that? Why do you think that happens?
Probably because, as a group and on a percentage basis, black Americans commit more crime and have a much higher rate of recidivism.
I actually think you and I are coming from much the same angle on this. I have seen the militarization of our police forces and it does trouble me. THAT is a systemic problem. I think we agree there.
But the implication that police, writ large, are out there actively looking for black Americans to arrest or murder is just not true. If it was the case, the numbers would be much much higher.
Oh, and, yes, I agree that bad cops being protected is a systemic issue in that the culture of law enforcement needs to cultivate no tolerance of such behavior - of ANY kind - not just against black Americans. I postulate that is isn’t - by and large - a race issue as much as it may be a character issue.
 
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Black people run the cocaine and heroin spots and they don't want to give it up either because they are afraid of losing the money. You feel me?
 
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