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Moral of the Durham trials: Jurors won't convict sources if the FBI wanted their bait

TigerGrowls

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Good analysis.

@dpic73 @hopefultiger13 If you can stop crowing then read this analysis.


News Analysis: With two acquittals, DC-area juries refuse to referee whether informants or FBI were more to blame for Russia collusion ruse. Is a Church Committee-like probe next?

By John Solomon
Updated: October 18, 2022 - 8:58pm

Special Counsel John Durham made a calculated decision to transform his only criminal trials — of Clinton lawyer Michael Sussmann and Steele dossier source Igor Danchenko — into forums for telling the story of the FBI's pursuit of the unsubstantiated Russia collusion narrative.
From pretrial motions and brutal cross-examinations of FBI witnesses to his parting words at the Danchenko trial, Durham telegraphed his disdain for the FBI's behavior to jurors in the courts of both law and public opinion.
The jury might very well conclude the FBI mishandled the Russia case, the veteran prosecutor declared Monday in his closing argument. "The government is not here to defend the FBI's performance in these matters," he added. Such comments gave license to jurors to acquit, as they did in the end.
Before it was over, Durham dropped bombshell after bombshell, with most landing on the FBI rather than the defendants:
  • Hillary Clinton personally approved sharing the Russia collusion narrative against Trump in fall 2016 even though her campaign wasn't sure it was true, former campaign manager Robby Mook testified.
  • The FBI offered Christopher Steele a whopping $1 million if he could prove the sensational allegations in his dossier, but he didn't, FBI witnesses testified.
  • The FBI included allegations from the Steele dossier in its FISA application to spy on the Trump campaign even though it hadn't verified a single element of the dossier, an FBI analyst testified.
  • Danchenko was hired as a confidential human source and recommended for hundreds of thousands of dollars even though the FBI had concerns he was tied to Russian intelligence and had lied to the bureau.
  • A Clinton-friendly PR executive, Charles Dolan, testified he lied to Danchenko, who then passed that lie on to Steele's dossier and then lied about Dolan being a source of the allegation.
  • The FBI ignored the warnings of its own analyst that the allegations of collusion might be disinformation inserted by Russian intelligence.
The tales of deceit, duplicity and disinformation, in the end, were too much for jurors to hold the two informers to the FBI — Sussmann and Danchenko — to account.
The forewoman for the Sussmann trial said prosecutors may have shown Sussmann lied but the jury felt it was a waste of their time to hold a trial. A juror for the Danchenko trial said jurors were mostly unanimous in acquitting Danchenko.
The moral of the story of the Durham trials is simple: jurors won't convict an FBI informer for providing the bureau a story that the bureau seemed to want even in the face of contradictory evidence.
Durham gave conservatives part of what they wanted, an airing of the FBI's stunning failures and misconduct in the politically tinged probe. But in the end Durham did not deliver a guilty verdict or the sort of accountability conservatives wanted, just the narrative.
And Washington is left with the continuing divide about what to make of Russiagate: conservatives are more convinced than ever that it was a deep state plot to get Donald Trump, while liberals see some smoke from the evidence but without the fire of convictions.
The next step, many experts have told Just the News, is to wait for Durham's final report, assuming he is finished with prosecutions.
And then Republicans in Congress — should they win control of one or more chambers in the November midterms — will need to put together a solution for restoring trust in the FBI that has been diminished by the Russia case, the Hunter Biden probe, the Jan. 6 case and the allegations from some 20 whistleblowers who have come forward to allege an unhealthy politicization of the bureau in recent years.
That solution, according to experts as diverse as former House Intelligence Committee chairman Devin Nunes and retired FBI intelligence chief Kevin Brock, may start with the formation of a blue-ribbon independent commission much like the 1970s Church Committee in the Senate did to expose abuses of the J. Edgar Hoover era at the FBI and CIA.
"I just don't know if we have the congressional will, maybe we will come after November, to stand up such a committee because it's going to take leadership to put it together to implement it, and then to put brave individuals on it who aren't going to care about their political careers," former House Intelligence Committee investigative counsel Kash Patel said.
 

What's next for FBI after Durham trials: A final report and maybe a Church Committee-like probe​

Acquittals reaffirm the political divide in Washington, D.C., but leave the next Congress with a mission to fix public trust in the FBI.

By Natalia Mittelstadt
Updated: October 18, 2022 - 11:19pm
After a second straight loss at trial, Special Counsel John Durham has a report to finish on the many fails he's uncovered in the FBI pursuit of Donald Trump while Congress — after the midterm elections — must decide how best to restore public trust in the FBI.
The latter mission, some experts say, may involve the creation of an independent panel review like the 1970s Church Committee in the Senate that unmasked the abuses of J. Edgar Hoover era inside the FBI and CIA.
"What prosecutor, in two straight trials, presents witnesses who essentially blow up his own case?" asked Kevin Brock, retired FBI chief of intelligence. "Answer: a prosecutor who cares more about getting the truth out than notching convictions."
"John Durham used the Sussmann and Danchenko trials to expose the malfeasance of a misbegotten Crossfire Hurricane team," he said, using the code name for the FBI's pursuit of now-debunked allegations of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia to sway the outcome of the 2016 election. "Sussmann and Danchenko clearly lied, but two juries, probably correctly, could not hold them guilty and subject to punishment in the face of Durham's continued exposure of the duplicity of the Crossfire Hurricane plotters who remain unpunished.
"I have a sad sense that John Durham's final report will be even more damning than what he has laid bare through these trials."
Former Rep. Doug Collins (R-Ga.) expressed his frustration on the "Just the News, Not Noise" TV show Tuesday night regarding the Durham investigation's two trials.
"I am just so frustrated with the Durham investigation, and then taking these to court, the juries — I'm not sure what we're talking about here," Collins said. "I mean, we're finding out millions of dollars were paid to try and frame Donald Trump, none of it which was true, and yet nobody is being held accountable. I'm not sure what Durham did for two years, three years. I'm just not sure anymore."
Collins was asked if saw any hope left for FBI accountability.
"The cynical part of me says, 'No,'" he replied. "I'm just at the point now to where it's just like, 'Are you kidding me?' I mean, we can't get anything ... McCabe, Comey, Strzok, Page — I mean, it's just, it's ridiculous. And yes, I'm passionate about this, because I saw this behind the scenes.
"Somebody needs to be held accountable. And now McCabe is on CNN, Comey's off in the woods staring at trees, and it's just ridiculous."
Former National Security Council Senior Director Kash Patel admitted he was shocked by Danchenko's acquittal.
"I think what a lot of Americans are going to take from this is that maybe it's not worth fighting anymore" he told "Just the News, Not Noise" on Tuesday. "And even if we put the FBI on trial, and you can pay a guy hundreds of thousands of dollars of government taxpayer money to participate in the biggest criminal conspiracy in America, and then he can be tried for lying to the very employer that he gave information to, and then walk out of a federal courthouse a free man, it's quite the justice charade, but it happens when you enact a two-tiered system of justice that [FBI Director] Chris Wray and [Attorney General] Merrick Garland are quarterbacking."
The FBI was culpable of far worse than naive credulity during Crossfire Hurricane's pursuit of Donald Trump, according to Patel.
"It's not that the FBI believed it, it's that the FBI knew it was false and lied about it, which is my problem as a former federal prosecutor," he said.
The problem, Patel continued, "is that they were ingesting false information intentionally and then lying to federal courts and federal officers about that information and then working in reverse to cover up their arrogant government corruption and their lies by hiring Christopher Steele, Igor Danchenko, and, you know, utilizing the Democratic National Committee and Hillary campaign and the fake news media to buttress their lies."
Patel, too, thinks only a Frank-Church-style investigative committee can expose FBI abuses — if Congress can find the will.
"Congress is probably gonna have to form a special committee, because there is no one committee that can fix law enforcement, FBI, DOJ, intelligence community, CIA, and DOD," he said.
"And in one way, shape, or form, most, if not all of them, had a hand in this. And the Church commission comes to mind, I know a lot of people have talked about that from the '70s. But that's what it's going to take. And I just don't know if we have the congressional will — maybe we will, coming in in November here — to stand up such a committee, because it's going to take leadership to put it together, to implement it, and then to put brave individuals on it who aren't going to care about their political careers."
Over the course the trials of Sussmann and Danchenko, Durham dropped bombshell after bombshell, with most landing on the FBI rather than the defendants:
  • Hillary Clinton personally approved sharing the Russia collusion narrative against Trump in fall 2016 even though her campaign wasn't sure it was true, former campaign manager Robby Mook testified.
  • The FBI offered Christopher Steele a whopping $1 million if he could prove the sensational allegations in his dossier, but he didn't, FBI witnesses testified.
  • The FBI included allegations from the Steele dossier in its FISA application to spy on the Trump campaign even though it hadn't verified a single element of the dossier, an FBI analyst testified.
  • Danchenko was hired as a confidential human source and recommended for hundreds of thousands of dollars even though the FBI had concerns he was tied to Russian intelligence and had lied to the bureau.
  • A Clinton-friendly PR executive testified he lied to Danchenko, who then passed that lie on to Steele and then lied about Dolan being a source of the allegation.
  • The FBI ignored the warnings of its own analyst that the allegations of collusion might be disinformation inserted by Russian intelligence.
 
Good analysis.

@dpic73 @hopefultiger13 If you can stop crowing then read this analysis.


News Analysis: With two acquittals, DC-area juries refuse to referee whether informants or FBI were more to blame for Russia collusion ruse. Is a Church Committee-like probe next?

By John Solomon
Updated: October 18, 2022 - 8:58pm

Special Counsel John Durham made a calculated decision to transform his only criminal trials — of Clinton lawyer Michael Sussmann and Steele dossier source Igor Danchenko — into forums for telling the story of the FBI's pursuit of the unsubstantiated Russia collusion narrative.
From pretrial motions and brutal cross-examinations of FBI witnesses to his parting words at the Danchenko trial, Durham telegraphed his disdain for the FBI's behavior to jurors in the courts of both law and public opinion.
The jury might very well conclude the FBI mishandled the Russia case, the veteran prosecutor declared Monday in his closing argument. "The government is not here to defend the FBI's performance in these matters," he added. Such comments gave license to jurors to acquit, as they did in the end.
Before it was over, Durham dropped bombshell after bombshell, with most landing on the FBI rather than the defendants:
  • Hillary Clinton personally approved sharing the Russia collusion narrative against Trump in fall 2016 even though her campaign wasn't sure it was true, former campaign manager Robby Mook testified.
  • The FBI offered Christopher Steele a whopping $1 million if he could prove the sensational allegations in his dossier, but he didn't, FBI witnesses testified.
  • The FBI included allegations from the Steele dossier in its FISA application to spy on the Trump campaign even though it hadn't verified a single element of the dossier, an FBI analyst testified.
  • Danchenko was hired as a confidential human source and recommended for hundreds of thousands of dollars even though the FBI had concerns he was tied to Russian intelligence and had lied to the bureau.
  • A Clinton-friendly PR executive, Charles Dolan, testified he lied to Danchenko, who then passed that lie on to Steele's dossier and then lied about Dolan being a source of the allegation.
  • The FBI ignored the warnings of its own analyst that the allegations of collusion might be disinformation inserted by Russian intelligence.
The tales of deceit, duplicity and disinformation, in the end, were too much for jurors to hold the two informers to the FBI — Sussmann and Danchenko — to account.
The forewoman for the Sussmann trial said prosecutors may have shown Sussmann lied but the jury felt it was a waste of their time to hold a trial. A juror for the Danchenko trial said jurors were mostly unanimous in acquitting Danchenko.
The moral of the story of the Durham trials is simple: jurors won't convict an FBI informer for providing the bureau a story that the bureau seemed to want even in the face of contradictory evidence.
Durham gave conservatives part of what they wanted, an airing of the FBI's stunning failures and misconduct in the politically tinged probe. But in the end Durham did not deliver a guilty verdict or the sort of accountability conservatives wanted, just the narrative.
And Washington is left with the continuing divide about what to make of Russiagate: conservatives are more convinced than ever that it was a deep state plot to get Donald Trump, while liberals see some smoke from the evidence but without the fire of convictions.
The next step, many experts have told Just the News, is to wait for Durham's final report, assuming he is finished with prosecutions.
And then Republicans in Congress — should they win control of one or more chambers in the November midterms — will need to put together a solution for restoring trust in the FBI that has been diminished by the Russia case, the Hunter Biden probe, the Jan. 6 case and the allegations from some 20 whistleblowers who have come forward to allege an unhealthy politicization of the bureau in recent years.
That solution, according to experts as diverse as former House Intelligence Committee chairman Devin Nunes and retired FBI intelligence chief Kevin Brock, may start with the formation of a blue-ribbon independent commission much like the 1970s Church Committee in the Senate did to expose abuses of the J. Edgar Hoover era at the FBI and CIA.
"I just don't know if we have the congressional will, maybe we will come after November, to stand up such a committee because it's going to take leadership to put it together to implement it, and then to put brave individuals on it who aren't going to care about their political careers," former House Intelligence Committee investigative counsel Kash Patel said.

Completely exonerated.
 
Go ahead and take your fantasy victory lap. This is not an exoneration for the machine that perpetrated the Trump Russia scam along with the coup on 45.

complete and total exoneration.

the jury has spoken. Trump Russia collusion is real.
 
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WHATEVER man... We have a criminal justice system. Durham put these folks on trial and they were found not guilty. That's the end. Period. So much for the "crime of the century".
 
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WHATEVER man... We have a criminal justice system. Durham put these folks on trial and they were found not guilty. That's the end. Period. So much for the "crime of the century".
Same with Trump right? Not even a criminal prosecution or charge levied from your delusional so called attempted coup/insurrection/blah, blah blah.
If he had done anything wrong, he would have been tried and convicted in a criminal court, no? It has been almost two years an not one single hint of a criminal charge.
 
Same with Trump right? Not even a criminal prosecution or charge levied from your delusional so called attempted coup/insurrection/blah, blah blah.
If he had done anything wrong, he would have been tried and convicted in a criminal court, no? It has been almost two years an not one single hint of a criminal charge.

It took Durham like 5 years to bring a charge against someone. Clock is still running on Trump.
 
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Same with Trump right? Not even a criminal prosecution or charge levied from your delusional so called attempted coup/insurrection/blah, blah blah.
If he had done anything wrong, he would have been tried and convicted in a criminal court, no? It has been almost two years an not one single hint of a criminal charge.
Absolutely. Take the Russia thing that he was impeached for. When he was found not guilty in the Senate, you haven't heard another word about it from me. Same for the 2nd impeachment. In fact, I didn't understand that charge... giving aid to other countries and then expecting them to do what you want them to do (or else no aid) is the bread and butter of US foreign politics.

I do think that there IS a federal law that Trump violated. No federal level elected official can take anything of value from a foreign government during a campaign. Trump pumping Russia for dirt on Hillary and then pumping Ukraine to start investigating Biden seem to be obvious violations of the law to me. You can tell that hurting your political opponent is a thing of value, b/c politicians pay for "opposition research" (ie dirt on your opponent) all the time. You just can't get that from a foreign government. But there's no charge against him for that, so again, nothing to see here.

I haven't even been following the January 6th stuff... I have no doubt that Trump tried to stay in office. And it's congress's job to investigate that... But unless you are going to charge him and try him (and it's pretty unclear if you can even do that now that he's not President) it's a waste of time. So if they charge him with something, I'll start paying attention.

But the point of this thread is that somehow, the jury is wrong on Trump's "Crime of the Century" b/c <insert article here>. And my point is that as a country... we have a jury system that decides these things. IE, you are an accused bank robber right up until the jury reaches a verdict. Then you ARE a bank robber if found guilty and you ARE NOT a bank robber if you are found not guilty. Same thing here... Durham tried the case and lost... nothing to see here... so much for the crime of the century.
 
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Absolutely. Take the Russia thing that he was impeached for. When he was found not guilty in the Senate, you haven't heard another word about it from me. Same for the 2nd impeachment. In fact, I didn't understand that charge... giving aid to other countries and then expecting them to do what you want them to do (or else no aid) is the bread and butter of US foreign politics.

I do think that there IS a federal law that Trump violated. No federal level elected official can take anything of value from a foreign government during a campaign. Trump pumping Russia for dirt on Hillary and then pumping Ukraine to start investigating Biden seem to be obvious violations of the law to me. You can tell that hurting your political opponent is a thing of value, b/c politicians pay for "opposition research" (ie dirt on your opponent) all the time. You just can't get that from a foreign government. But there's no charge against him for that, so again, nothing to see here.

I haven't even been following the January 6th stuff... I have no doubt that Trump tried to stay in office. And it's congress's job to investigate that... But unless you are going to charge him and try him (and it's pretty unclear if you can even do that now that he's not President) it's a waste of time. So if they charge him with something, I'll start paying attention.

But the point of this thread is that somehow, the jury is wrong on Trump's "Crime of the Century" b/c <insert article here>. And my point is that as a country... we have a jury system that decides these things. IE, you are an accused bank robber right up until the jury reaches a verdict. Then you ARE a bank robber if found guilty and you ARE NOT a bank robber if you are found not guilty. Same thing here... Durham tried the case and lost... nothing to see here... so much for the crime of the century.
If there was a crime it was by the fbi, though I am not sure how you would prove willful negligence for political purposes. It is clear at this point that at the very least there was massive incompetence. Basically little to none of the information used to secure the fisa warrant was verified by anyone in the justice/legal system. I am not sure how that is even possible for a bank robber trial, much less what should be one of the most stringent warrant processes in existence. I for want want some answers about that particular incident. Imo, spying on a political opponent( presidential candidate no less), for political gain would probably be rank as the biggest political crime/scandal ever. Watergate pales in comparison if Trump was spied on based on made up evidence by the democrat party with the help of the fbi.
 
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If there was a crime it was by the fbi, though I am not sure how you would prove willful negligence for political purposes. It is clear at this point that at the very least there was massive incompetence. Basically little to none of the information used to secure the fisa warrant was verified by anyone in the justice/legal system. I am not sure how that is even possible for a bank robber trial, much less what should be one of the most stringent warrant processes in existence. I for want want some answers about that particular incident. Imo, spying on a political opponent( presidential candidate no less), for political gain would probably be rank as the biggest political crime/scandal ever. Watergate pales in comparison if Trump was spied on based on made up evidence by the democrat party with the help of the fbi.
He was and Durham verified that in court.
 
You are not even qualified to comment since you didn't keep.up with it and your mind is focused on Danchenko being found innocent.
Whatever man... Like I said... crime of the century? What crime? Anyone charged... anyone found guilty? Nope. Durham was charged by Barr to investigate this correct...?? And here we are almost 3 years down the road. And what's Durham got... 1 guilty plea resulting in probation and 2 whiffs... You got NOTHING... NOTHING. I don't have to be qualified to see that. His Grand Jury has expired and I haven't heard that he's even tried to get another one going.

In the immortal words of Gene Wilder...

 
Whatever man... Like I said... crime of the century? What crime? Anyone charged... anyone found guilty? Nope. Durham was charged by Barr to investigate this correct...?? And here we are almost 3 years down the road. And what's Durham got... 1 guilty plea resulting in probation and 2 whiffs... You got NOTHING... NOTHING. I don't have to be qualified to see that. His Grand Jury has expired and I haven't heard that he's even tried to get another one going.

In the immortal words of Gene Wilder...

You dont even know what you dont know. Sad.

iu
 
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