New Spending Bill Framework

[scotchtiger]

Coming out later today. While I still don't support the bill, the progress forced by senators Manchin and Sinema is something Americans should be grateful for.

Some highlights:

• 50% reduction in spending. $3.5T --> $1.75T.
• Elimination of an entirely new category of entitlements - free community college.
• Looks like we will avoid the absurd targeting of families making $450K for a tax increase.
• Instead, they are looking at taxing income in the tiers of $5M and $10M, which while I don't necessarily support any tax increases, this makes far more sense than previous proposals that would hit everyday high achievers. Ironically, this is more in line with my suggestions on this board going back many months.
• Not addressed in the article, but I think we are avoiding Medicare expansion as well (more permanent entitlement growth that can never be undone)
• Paid family leave is out. While it's a good thing to have, it's the responsibility of the employer to provide it, not the government. Another new category of entitlement to the cutting room floor.

I haven't seen the latest capital gains rate proposal, but hopefully it follows progress with ordinary income rates.

Biden Framework for Social-Climate Package Fails to Ease Passage of Infrastructure Bill

The White House’s $1.85 trillion framework designed to show progress in the social-spending and climate talks fell short of persuading progressives to quickly approve the parallel, roughly $1 trillion infrastructure bill.

www.wsj.com

 

[scotchtiger]

Update:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-...-climate-package-11635422127?mod=hp_lead_pos1

 

[yoshi121374]

Coming out later today. While I still don't support the bill, the progress forced by senators Manchin and Sinema is something Americans should be grateful for.

Some highlights:

• 50% reduction in spending. $3.5T --> $1.75T.
• Elimination of an entirely new category of entitlements - free community college.
• Looks like we will avoid the absurd targeting of families making $450K for a tax increase.
• Instead, they are looking at taxing income in the tiers of $5M and $10M, which while I don't necessarily support any tax increases, this makes far more sense than previous proposals that would hit everyday high achievers. Ironically, this is more in line with my suggestions on this board going back many months.
• Not addressed in the article, but I think we are avoiding Medicare expansion as well (more permanent entitlement growth that can never be undone)
• Paid family leave is out. While it's a good thing to have, it's the responsibility of the employer to provide it, not the government. Another new category of entitlement to the cutting room floor.

I haven't seen the latest capital gains rate proposal, but hopefully it follows progress with ordinary income rates.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-...ate-package-11635422127?mod=hp_lead_pos2[/Uif

If it passes it could be a nice s...wanted and they can be pleased with progress.

 

[nytigerfan]

Coming out later today. While I still don't support the bill, the progress forced by senators Manchin and Sinema is something Americans should be grateful for.

Some highlights:

• 50% reduction in spending. $3.5T --> $1.75T.
• Elimination of an entirely new category of entitlements - free community college.
• Looks like we will avoid the absurd targeting of families making $450K for a tax increase.
• Instead, they are looking at taxing income in the tiers of $5M and $10M, which while I don't necessarily support any tax increases, this makes far more sense than previous proposals that would hit everyday high achievers. Ironically, this is more in line with my suggestions on this board going back many months.
• Not addressed in the article, but I think we are avoiding Medicare expansion as well (more permanent entitlement growth that can never be undone)
• Paid family leave is out. While it's a good thing to have, it's the responsibility of the employer to provide it, not the government. Another new category of entitlement to the cutting room floor.

I haven't seen the latest capital gains rate proposal, but hopefully it follows progress with ordinary income rates.

Biden Framework for Social-Climate Package Fails to Ease Passage of Infrastructure Bill

The White House’s $1.85 trillion framework designed to show progress in the social-spending and climate talks fell short of persuading progressives to quickly approve the parallel, roughly $1 trillion infrastructure bill.

www.wsj.com

It falls short on climate change for sure, all so Manchin and his son's coal brokerage business won't take a hit. Don't think for a second that he is doing it for the "people" of WV. He is doing it for his rich friends who own the coal mines. The same ones who routinely screw their workers out of pensions.

I do find it funny that you get outraged any time someone below you suggests it is OK for you to pay more in taxes, but you are OK with the people above you to pay more. I guess when you start pulling in $5MM+ we will hear again how angry you are again.

The bad news for pubs... this will likely keep the dems in power. Biden was elected because he is a moderate, and thats where he has landed here (assuming this gets the votes). The economy is coming back strong as the delta variant wanes, people have forgotten about Afghanistan, and this bill will go through along with the infrastructure bill.

 

[Willence]

Boondoggle. Lots of budget tricks and bullcrap taxes. Taxing corp profits is insane. Hard to fathom anyone not recognizing that is a tax on everyone, especially the poor. Hopefully it doesn't pass. Praying it doesn't pass. Not in favor of any new taxes unless it is an income tax for the folks who keep voting themselves free stuff.

 

[scotchtiger]

I do find it funny that you get outraged any time someone below you suggests it is OK for you to pay more in taxes, but you are OK with the people above you to pay more. I guess when you start pulling in $5MM+ we will hear again how angry you are again.

The bad news for pubs... this will likely keep the dems in power. Biden was elected because he is a moderate, and thats where he has landed here (assuming this gets the votes). The economy is coming back strong as the delta variant wanes, people have forgotten about Afghanistan, and this bill will go through along with the infrastructure bill.

Did you read my post? I said, "while I don't necessarily support any tax increases..."

But I also recognize that the dems are going to force an increase somewhere, so if it has to happen, an increase far up the income ladder makes more sense. Hard to correlate chants of "Wall Street billionaires and big-tech CEOs" to a family making $450K. But at least a family making $10-$25M seems to align with their public outcries.

And I'm not sure this is bad news. Biden really just looks like a failure. He showed his colors and pushed for far left, big spending and big entitlements. He simply failed.

 

[WapPride]

ehh i don't necessarily agree w/ that. he pushed for what the progressives wanted, sinema and manchin and the rest of the republican party held it up, so they're negotiating down. it may not have everything everyone wanted, but it's still going to do some good imo. Manchin being a corrupt goon is kind of expected, but Sinema being a corporate shill despite running on the exact opposite of how she's acted since getting into office is a bit unfortunate.

i do find it funny how every nearly every first/second world country has some form of paid leave with the exception of the US and some african country. good company we keep ourselves in

 

[scotchtiger]

ehh i don't necessarily agree w/ that. he pushed for what the progressives wanted, sinema and manchin and the rest of the republican party held it up, so they're negotiating down.

That's kind of my point. NY essentially said that this bill will solidify him as a moderate, which will help in 2022. My point is Biden's proposed bill was not moderate at all, but he was forced to reduce it by 50% thanks to some actual moderates in his party standing up.

 

[nytigerfan]

Did you read my post? I said, "while I don't necessarily support any tax increases..."

But I also recognize that the dems are going to force an increase somewhere, so if it has to happen, an increase far up the income ladder makes more sense. Hard to correlate chants of "Wall Street billionaires and big-tech CEOs" to a family making $450K. But at least a family making $10-$25M seems to align with their public outcries.

And I'm not sure this is bad news. Biden really just looks like a failure. He showed his colors and pushed for far left, big spending and big entitlements. He simply failed.

Just pointing out that the same way that you feel about the people above you is the way people below you feel about you.

I am sure the right will push the narrative that this was a failure by Biden. But if you will note, almost every time in the past few months that you have brought up the $3.5T price tag, I have pointed out that NOBODY expected that is where this would land. They rushed a bill out of committee for $3.5T and just stuck everything everyone wanted in there. I expected the bill to land at about $2T, so $1.75 is not far off.

In my own PERSONAL opinion this is a failure and I am pissed at Biden (and more so at Manchin). Climate change is the most pressing issue and I think it makes everything else trivial. That said, I would vote for Biden a in a split second over a pub who will undoubtedly set us even further back. Trump thinks its a hoax. And Desantis... well even his supporters in Florida are getting a little sick of those red tides.

 

[scotchtiger]

Just pointing out that the same way that you feel about the people above you is the way people below you feel about you.

I am sure the right will push the narrative that this was a failure by Biden. But if you will note, almost every time in the past few months that you have brought up the $3.5T price tag, I have pointed out that NOBODY expected that is where this would land. They rushed a bill out of committee for $3.5T and just stuck everything everyone wanted in there. I expected the bill to land at about $2T, so $1.75 is not far off.

In my own PERSONAL opinion this is a failure and I am pissed at Biden (and more so at Manchin). Climate change is the most pressing issue and I think it makes everything else trivial. That said, I would vote for Biden a in a split second over a pub who will undoubtedly set us even further back. Trump thinks its a hoax. And Desantis... well even his supporters in Florida are getting a little sick of those red tides.

I don't think that's true. There are many people "below" me on the income ladder that - due to the brainwashing on the left - don't think I "pay my fair share." There are plenty who actually believe - again due to brainwashing on the left - that I pay a lower rate than them.

Of course both points are absurd, and completely inaccurate.

I don't feel that way about people "above" me because I'm bright enough to understand our tax structure as well as the hard work and talent it typically takes to reach those income levels. These are CEOs, innovators, business creators, etc.

My point all along is the absurdity of complaining about billionaires and then taxing regular families.

To you point about the $ amount winding up lower - where would that amount have landed without Manchin and Sinema standing in the way? Who would have provided the check and balance to keep it under $3.5T?

The answer is nobody. So without them, your prophesy wouldn't have come true.

 

[nytigerfan]

I don't think that's true. There are many people "below" me on the income ladder that - due to the brainwashing on the left - don't think I "pay my fair share." There are plenty who actually believe - again due to brainwashing on the left - that I pay a lower rate than them.

Of course both points are absurd, and completely inaccurate.

I don't feel that way about people "above" me because I'm bright enough to understand our tax structure as well as the hard work and talent it typically takes to reach those income levels. These are CEOs, innovators, business creators, etc.

My point all along is the absurdity of complaining about billionaires and then taxing regular families.

To you point about the $ amount winding up lower - where would that amount have landed without Manchin and Sinema standing in the way? Who would have provided the check and balance to keep it under $3.5T?

The answer is nobody. So without them, your prophesy wouldn't have come true.

There were moderate democrats in congress who also said they did not want a $3.5T package. When Manchin voted to advance the bill, he said then he would not vote in the end for $3.5T. Biden and everyone else knew $3.5T was not the number, the question was what to cut. And sadly for our children, Manchin got his way and cut the teeth from the environmental package.

 

[TigerGrowls]

Just pointing out that the same way that you feel about the people above you is the way people below you feel about you.

I am sure the right will push the narrative that this was a failure by Biden. But if you will note, almost every time in the past few months that you have brought up the $3.5T price tag, I have pointed out that NOBODY expected that is where this would land. They rushed a bill out of committee for $3.5T and just stuck everything everyone wanted in there. I expected the bill to land at about $2T, so $1.75 is not far off.

In my own PERSONAL opinion this is a failure and I am pissed at Biden (and more so at Manchin). Climate change is the most pressing issue and I think it makes everything else trivial. That said, I would vote for Biden a in a split second over a pub who will undoubtedly set us even further back. Trump thinks its a hoax. And Desantis... well even his supporters in Florida are getting a little sick of those red tides.

Climate change? We have been hearing this for a long time.

Crazy Al Gore Said the Entire Polor Ice Cap Would be Melted in 5 Years - That Was 13 Years Ago... Now He Says We Need to Get Rid of 80% of US Energy Sources | The Gateway Pundit | by Joe Hoft

Al Gore is at it again. He claimed the sky was falling years ago and now claims we must to get rid of 80% of US energy sources. (But he has no solution for replacing these sources.) Al Gore claimed that the entire North Pole ice cap was going to be gone in 5 years – That was 13 years ago. Let’s...

www.thegatewaypundit.com

 

[Willence]

The NBC poll from this weekend is some of the worst polling data I can ever recall. It will be interesting to see how it affects this legislation. You have to wonder if anything else is going to get done. I can't remember a presidency being dead by November of year 1. Especially when the party in the White House also controls both houses of Congress.

 

[PawsFan_]

ehh i don't necessarily agree w/ that. he pushed for what the progressives wanted, sinema and manchin and the rest of the republican party held it up, so they're negotiating down. it may not have everything everyone wanted, but it's still going to do some good imo. Manchin being a corrupt goon is kind of expected, but Sinema being a corporate shill despite running on the exact opposite of how she's acted since getting into office is a bit unfortunate.

i do find it funny how every nearly every first/second world country has some form of paid leave with the exception of the US and some african country. good company we keep ourselves in

Our Secretary of Transportation just took three freaking months of family leave. I heard the breast feeding is going fine.

Very few companies don't offer some form of paternal/maternal leave anymore. It's doesn't cost much to do.

 

[scotchtiger]

The NBC poll from this weekend is some of the worst polling data I can ever recall. It will be interesting to see how it affects this legislation. You have to wonder if anything else is going to get done. I can't remember a presidency being dead by November of year 1. Especially when the party in the White House also controls both houses of Congress.

No worries. President Biden is alert and focused on solving big climate issues this week.

 

[scotchtiger]

Our Secretary of Transportation just took three freaking months of family leave. I heard the breast feeding is going fine.

Very few companies don't offer some form of paternal/maternal leave anymore. It's doesn't cost much to do.

Yes, the appropriate place for maternity leave is at the employer level. If the federal government wants to do something about it, they shouldn't be funding an entire paid program. Strengthen the employer tax credit for providing leave as an incentive / cost offset to offering it.

We were founded on limited government, so to @WapPride 's point, we shouldn't have - or want to have - big central government programs like EU countries.

 

[scotchtiger]

Joe Manchin continues his heroism.

Manchin Criticizes Democrats’ Revised Social Spending and Climate Bill

The West Virginia Democrat criticized the strategy of progressive Democrats to tie the fate of the healthcare, education and climate-change effort to a separate infrastructure bill that passed the Senate earlier this year.

www.wsj.com

 

[scotchtiger]

Ugh. Bitter dems back at it. Trying to eliminate the backdoor Roth for us hard-working, fiscally responsible retirement savers.

Democrats also restored several other changes to retirement accounts, including eliminating what's known as a "backdoor" Roth IRA. In that scenario, account holders with income too high to contribute to a Roth (in 2021, individuals had to have a modified adjusted gross income below $139,000) instead place the money in traditional IRAs – but then convert it to a Roth. There are taxes at the time of the transfer, but then individuals can grow that money tax-free in a Roth.

Also targeting large retirement accounts.

Under the proposal, wealthy Americans with account balances above $10 million would have to draw down their accounts by a certain threshold each year, thereby triggering taxes on the money.

The general rule is that anyone with more than $10 million in an account must withdraw at least 50%. Those with more than $20 million would be required to withdraw 100% of anything over that $20 million threshold in their Roth accounts.

$10 million really isn't that much. Using the 4% rule, that only produces $400K in annual pre-tax income, with take-home amounts in the $200s.

 

[scotchtiger]

Even though the tax implication from the provisions above make me cringe, I'm getting a sensible chuckle that Nancy is now struggling with the votes in the house to pass the bill. Logically and completely reasonably, a handful of house dems want to see the budget score from the bill before voting.

Why wouldn't you want to see this before passing nearly $2T in legislation?

Glad the GOP success on Tuesday has scared some moderate dems to at least feign concern for the budget.

 

[nytigerfan]

Even though the tax implication from the provisions above make me cringe, I'm getting a sensible chuckle that Nancy is now struggling with the votes in the house to pass the bill. Logically and completely reasonably, a handful of house dems want to see the budget score from the bill before voting.

Why wouldn't you want to see this before passing nearly $2T in legislation?

Glad the GOP success on Tuesday has scared some moderate dems to at least feign concern for the budget.

Please, lets not pretend that you pubs really give crap about the budget. You only care about the budget when a dem president is in office.

Trump's tax cut bill had 10 different assessments that said there is no way it would pay for itself as they were claiming. So Trump and pubs went the eleventh assessment that said it would pay for itself. That one came from the White House.

 

[Willence]

They seem to think they aren't doing enough. The reality is they are always doing too much. Just let it go... please.

 

[Willence]

Please, lets not pretend that you pubs really give crap about the budget. You only care about the budget when a dem president is in office.

Trump's tax cut bill had 10 different assessments that said there is no way it would pay for itself as they were claiming. So Trump and pubs went the eleventh assessment that said it would pay for itself. That one came from the White House.

Can't speak for others but I care very much. It's why Trump wasn't a very good president in my book. It was high tide and we still spent like crazy. How does a tax cut pay for itself? Through economic growth you mean? Kind of hard to measure that when we had Covid happen. That's unfair even by your standards.

 

[nytigerfan]

Can't speak for others but I care very much. It's why Trump wasn't a very good president in my book. It was high tide and we still spent like crazy. How does a tax cut pay for itself? Through economic growth you mean? Kind of hard to measure that when we had Covid happen. That's unfair even by your standards.

hmmmm. It seems unfair that you guys are so fast to use COVID as an excuse for the economy under republicans but don't give the dems that same benefit of the doubt.

 

[Willence]

hmmmm. It seems unfair that you guys are so fast to use COVID as an excuse for the economy under republicans but don't give the dems that same benefit of the doubt.

I am fine with that. But Joe Biden ran for office saying he was going to crush the virus and restore the economy and restore our country. That was his campaign and he actively blamed the previous president for everything that was going wrong including the economy. He also said that not one single American had to die from covid and that things will change when he was president. More people have died under his watch then did under the prior president. He didn't have to say these things but it was clear he was going to say anything to get elected and it's only fair to hold him accountable for that now.

Moreover his idiotic fiscal policies with regard to extending unemployment benefits and everything else with all the spending have been devastating. He also stopped our oil production so that now we're a net importer. He is quite literally crushing the economy that he claims to want to grow and those things are entirely his responsibility. Our trade deficit this month is the highest in history and we just can't afford to continue doing that.

 

[TigerGrowls]

hmmmm. It seems unfair that you guys are so fast to use COVID as an excuse for the economy under republicans but don't give the dems that same benefit of the doubt.

Trump put the economy in an excellent position through his policies before covid and it was already recovering before the election. Biden in less than a year has put the nation in a shithole that is going to be hard to climb out of with the current policies. The economy has not been shut down at all under Biden as it was under Trump. This shit roll is all on Joey Poops 💩 Biden and his commie handlers.

 

[TigerGrowls]

Must Watch: Rep. Steve Scalise SHREDS Biden's Disaster 'Build Back Better' Package In Firey Late Night Hearing - Millions of Illegals Will Be Granted Amnesty, Trillions in Additional Taxes and Debt | The Gateway Pundit | by Julian Conradson

House Minority Whip Steve Scalise (R-LA) dropped bombshell after bombshell on Biden’s multi-trillion dollar “Build Back Better” package during a late-night vote on the house floor on Friday night.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

 

[nytigerfan]

Trump put the economy in an excellent position through his policies before covid and it was already recovering before the election. Biden in less than a year has put the nation in a shithole that is going to be hard to climb out of with the current policies. The economy has not been shut down at all under Biden as it was under Trump. This shit roll is all on Joey Poops 💩 Biden and his commie handlers.

Hahahahahahahahahahaha!

It is pretty easy to show "improvement" in the economy after you are the one that wrecked it in the first place.

 

[TigerGrowls]

Hahahahahahahahahahaha!

It is pretty easy to show "improvement" in the economy after you are the one that wrecked it in the first place.

Dumbass response, but you are consistent at least.

 

[nytigerfan]

Dumbass response, but you are consistent at least.

How about Biden adding record numbers of jobs? 5.6 MM new jobs in 9 months. A record for any administration. Jobs, Jobs, Jobs!

 

[TigerGrowls]

How about Biden adding record numbers of jobs? 5.6 MM new jobs in 9 months. A record for any administration. Jobs, Jobs, Jobs!

Well i am not going to complain about any jobs added, but we need to look at the total picture and adding jobs right now is an easy layup just as it was in the summer and fall last year for Trump. A good bit of that is due to all the jobs that were lost just coming back at points and then some people just now deciding to start working again after the extended unemployment finally ran out. There are still a hundred million not even counted in the unemployment numbers so thats a lot of pent up work force still sitting at home living off handouts so he is not going to be praised by me for jobs at this point.

Additionally all of us working have had our spending power reduced by runaway inflation and Joe is very responsible for that. Gas price is the driving force that started this runaway inflation and the Cali dem rules trying to help unions at the expense of everyone else has heavily contributed to all the ships sitting in line to unload goods. Joe promised to fix that on tv and has not done anything to back that up.

Its a complicated issue and I am willing to give dems credit if they do something good that deserves praise. I just want the country to do well, but its not looking good at this time.

 

[TigerGrowls]

"Ha Ha Ha! That is Hilarious!" - Biden Energy Secretary Laughs When Asked About Biden's Plans to Bring Gas Prices Down (VIDEO) | The Gateway Pundit | by Cristina Laila

Biden’s Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm on Friday laughed when asked about Joe Biden’s plans to bring gas prices down.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

 

[nytigerfan]

Well i am not going to complain about any jobs added, but we need to look at the total picture and adding jobs right now is an easy layup just as it was in the summer and fall last year for Trump. A good bit of that is due to all the jobs that were lost just coming back at points and then some people just now deciding to start working again after the extended unemployment finally ran out. There are still a hundred million not even counted in the unemployment numbers so thats a lot of pent up work force still sitting at home living off handouts so he is not going to be praised by me for jobs at this point.

Additionally all of us working have had our spending power reduced by runaway inflation and Joe is very responsible for that. Gas price is the driving force that started this runaway inflation and the Cali dem rules trying to help unions at the expense of everyone else has heavily contributed to all the ships sitting in line to unload goods. Joe promised to fix that on tv and has not done anything to back that up.

Its a complicated issue and I am willing to give dems credit if they do something good that deserves praise. I just want the country to do well, but its not looking good at this time.

amazing. You don’t even see it.

 

[TigerGrowls]

amazing. You don’t even see it.

Please enlighten me then.

 

[AugTig]

Please enlighten me then.

Yes, please enlighten all of us @nytigerfan. What is not being seen? Please explain from a non partisan standpoint if capable..

 

[nytigerfan]

Yes, please enlighten all of us @nytigerfan. What is not being seen? Please explain from a non partisan standpoint if capable..

 

[dpic73]

Please enlighten me then.

It's hard to enlighten someone who's committed to being deceived by misinformation but I'll take a stab at it.

In February 2021, the month after President Joe Biden took office, unemployment was 6.3%, and the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office projected that it would take until the end of 2023 for the nation to reach 4.6% unemployment.

In March 2021, Congress passed the $1.9 trillion American Rescue Plan to stimulate the economy, which had withered during the coronavirus pandemic. The plan extended unemployment benefits and provided stimulus payments to individuals. It increased food stamp benefits and significantly expanded the Child Tax Credit, putting money in parents’ pockets. It provided grants to small business and local, state, and tribal governments. It provided money for schools, housing, and healthcare.

Not a single Republican voted for the measure.

Today, the Bureau of Labor Statistics released its October monthly jobs report, and the news was good. The country added 531,000 new jobs, and numbers for previous months were revised to take more complete data into account. They show that there were 235,000 more jobs created in August and September than had previously been counted. Today’s news says that the U.S. economy has reached 4.6% unemployment two years ahead of schedule.

Since Biden took office, the U.S. has added more than 5.6 million jobs. This reflects the rebound from the lows of the pandemic, and it means that Biden added more jobs in the first 9 months of his presidency than the last three Republican administrations, covering 16 years, combined. The news created a rally on the stock market. The Dow Jones Industrial Average, the S&P 500, and the Nasdaq Composite, all ways of measuring the stock market, all closed at record highs, a powerful sign in light of the fact that right-wing politicians have insisted that Biden’s policies would hurt the economy.