ADVERTISEMENT

OT: Afghanistan...

PawsFan_ said:
No one dropped the ball. We knew exactly what would happen.

Can't stay there forever. Afghanis need to take charge of their own country.

The only issue I have is that we should have waited until fighting season ended to withdraw. It would have bought more time for the ANDF.
Click to expand...
If we knew the country would fall in 72 hours and didn't leave measures in place to at the very least extract Americans and those that put their lives on the line to assist us, then it's even worse.

We should have left after OBL was killed if not before then. It was clear well before that moment that the country couldn't be governed or democracy inserted.

That said, the optics for this are really bad for us regardless of which opinion you hold around staying in country or leaving.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PontificatingUnifex, yoshi121374 and Willence
PawsFan_ said:
No one dropped the ball. We knew exactly what would happen.

Can't stay there forever. Afghanis need to take charge of their own country.

The only issue I have is that we should have waited until fighting season ended to withdraw. It would have bought more time for the ANDF.
Click to expand...
But the fighting never ends. Their national pastime is war. Before we and the Russians showed up nearly every man belonged to a clan and they all had militias.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PawsFan_
jakefest said:
If we knew the country would fall in 72 hours and didn't leave measures in place to at the very least extract Americans and those that put their lives on the line to assist us, then it's even worse.

We should have left after OBL was killed if not before then. It was clear well before that moment that the country couldn't be governed or democracy inserted.

That said, the optics for this are really bad for us regardless of which opinion you hold around staying in country or leaving.
Click to expand...

The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs was too busy adding CRT material to the official reading list of the Armed Forces. So many people don't have their eye on the ball right now. Everyone should be fired. There's been a lot of great leadership from Democrats in the past. It isn't like we can't see great American leadership from all sides. But what we have now is just horrendous. Both sides too. How about we stop being so focused on tearing each other apart and we start focusing on being so much better than we are now?
 
  • Like
Reactions: TigerGrowls, PontificatingUnifex, nsp1996 and 1 other person
nytigerfan said:
I don't disagree, but just want to point out that two VERY different administrations came to the same conclusion that it was in our best interest to pull out. It is a tragedy no doubt what is going to happen to those people.

Also worth pointing out... for the crowd on here that claims that the MSM gives Biden a pass... they are abusing him right now for this.
Click to expand...

I agree.

I read all my news from respected sources that many on here would label "MSM", and Biden is getting roasted over this failure - as well he should. But they also correctly point out that Trump signed the "peace agreement", as it was called at the time by the GOP, with the Taliban in early 2020 with a stated goal to withdraw by May 1 2021. Imagine the outrage from the right if Biden would've negotiated with the Taliban and told them what date we would leave. It would be the same from the left if Trump was in charge the last 72 hours and oversaw the fall of Kabul. They both own this embarrassment.

Additionally, many are forgetting Trump's almost solo decision to withdraw troops from Syria in 2019. That decision, which started in late 2018, caused General Mattis to resign and many of Trump's GOP buddies to publicly criticize him.

I just wish Americans would quit arguing over who is the shittier President and realize that we have allowed ourselves to get in a position where our choices in November for almost all national positions are the worst they've been in most of our lives. It's this way because so many millions of Americans are party first. Until we demand more from our elected officials, as AMERICANS - not Republicans or Democrats, we will continue to get the same results. America cannot withstand this lack of leadership and remain the beacon of hope for the world forever.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: fcctiger12 and Lot4tiger
jakefest said:
At this point, it doesn't even matter which president we blame for this. The reality is that we will have to return to that absolute sh*thole and fix the problem as it will become both a humanitarian crisis and a national security threat before the end of the fall.

The 75,000 Taliban just grew to 375,000 Taliban minus the ones that managed to flee the country. Anyone else will pledge loyalty or die. The border is about as open as our southern one so terrorists with an interest in war are now flooding into a military training ground for bad people totally uninhibited by a government we can pressure or sanction to death.

The Taliban and Al Qaeda are well known for ruthlessness when it comes to torture, rape and murder. Any woman that taught in an American built school will be stoned and any little girl that attended, likely raped and potentially turned into slaves. Any military aged male either has the choice to join up and fight or will die a pretty horrible death along with their families.

One things for certain, the intelligence community and military leadership totally dropped the ball on this as they should have understood the 300,000 person army would fold like a lawn chair and they should have had some intel that the Taliban were going to advance. There should be outrage over this.
Click to expand...
A strong argument for not invading the place to start with.
 
adgjunior said:
I just wish Americans would quit arguing over who is the shittier President and realize that we have allowed ourselves to get in a position where our choices in November for almost all national positions are the worst they've been in most of our lives. It's this way because so many millions of Americans are party first. Until we demand more from our elected officials, as AMERICANS - not Republicans or Democrats, we will continue to get the same results. America cannot withstand this lack of leadership and remain the beacon of hope for the world forever.
Click to expand...

Amen. Both sides are absolutely awful right now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lot4tiger and adgjunior
PawsFan_ said:
Interesting here. Check out CNN's homepage.

CNN - Breaking News, Latest News and Videos

View the latest news and breaking news today for U.S., world, weather, entertainment, politics and health at CNN.com.
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com

I know this will change, but right now in the upper left portion they are showing a gif of Afghani's swarming a US aircraft "as its taking off."

Total fake news. While the aircraft looks like a USAF aircraft, it isn't. a C-17 has 4 engines not 2. The aircraft isn't moving...the vehicle filming the people is. Someone has electronically put an aircraft in the picture.

No pilot is ever going to taxi his aircraft with that many people around it. Why would CNN post this without fact checking?

This isn't meant to be a political comment about CNN. There's plenty of other opportunities for me to rag these morons. It more about the state of journalistic ignorance and (lack of) integrity anymore. Clicks are more important than facts. They have to sell drama and extremes to get you to look.

It's no wonder we've all becomes so jaded and divided.
Click to expand...
Right now .... IM watching a video on the International Defence News FB page (its a British Military page) falling off that plane as it took off. Looks to be several hundred feet off the ground. Probably as the landing gear retracted.

Id share it ..... but dont know how to share a FB video .... and Im sure it will be taken down soon.

Whether its all Biden's fault or not ..... he owns this ..... its an embarrassment of epic proportions
 
And even better, China and Russia still operating embassies under the Taliban's protection sort of says it all (if true of course). Curious to get a view from @PawsFan_ on the accuracy of that.

If the Taliban, as part of our exit agreement, agreed to not attack cities/embassies/civilians, then I'll be curious to see what we do as a response.
 
nytigerfan said:
It was Trump who originally "made a deal" with the Taliban my man. The last four administrations all get plenty of blame on this disaster.

www.businessinsider.com

UK defense secretary says that Trump's deal with the Taliban was 'rotten' and that the international community will likely 'pay the consequences'

In the rare criticism of US strategic decision-making, Ben Wallace called the US's deal with the Taliban a "mistake."
www.businessinsider.com www.businessinsider.com
Click to expand...
Pulling out isn't the problem. That had to happen eventually. And the Taliban was always gonna take it back apparently. That must be what the people there want. I guess.

But the WAY the pull out happened is really, really bad. The US should leave Afghanistan on OUR terms. Walking out, not running out. And destroying all equipment that isn't coming back.

And now Biden is sending more troops INTO Afghanistan. Which should have been done days or weeks ago to cover the exit. Not to mention helping the thousands of Afghans that helped the US over the years and are all probably afraid for their lives now. The next time the US has to go somewhere and enlist local help, it's gonna be a LOT harder.

The US also has French, German and British allies there who are having to deal with this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: nsp1996 and PAWrocka
PawsFan_ said:
Interesting here. Check out CNN's homepage.

CNN - Breaking News, Latest News and Videos

View the latest news and breaking news today for U.S., world, weather, entertainment, politics and health at CNN.com.
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com

I know this will change, but right now in the upper left portion they are showing a gif of Afghani's swarming a US aircraft "as its taking off."

Total fake news. While the aircraft looks like a USAF aircraft, it isn't. a C-17 has 4 engines not 2. The aircraft isn't moving...the vehicle filming the people is. Someone has electronically put an aircraft in the picture.

No pilot is ever going to taxi his aircraft with that many people around it. Why would CNN post this without fact checking?

This isn't meant to be a political comment about CNN. There's plenty of other opportunities for me to rag these morons. It more about the state of journalistic ignorance and (lack of) integrity anymore. Clicks are more important than facts. They have to sell drama and extremes to get you to look.

It's no wonder we've all becomes so jaded and divided.
Click to expand...
That plane has four engines. The outermost engine on the RHS is out of frame. You can just see the two engines on the left wing for a second. I'm no expert but it looks like a C-17.

As to the rest - I can't say. The plane does look to be moving slowly but some of the "motion" is from the camera moving.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PawsFan_
jakefest said:
Just wait until both sides start pointing fingers and media machine kicks off. America is in a really bad place regardless of which party you affiliate with.
Click to expand...

That's somewhat already started....but it will be on full display 8:00 - 11:00 tonight on all the cable news networks.
 
adgjunior said:
That's somewhat already started....but it will be on full display 8:00 - 11:00 tonight on all the cable news networks.
Click to expand...

GOP already trying to rewrite history and their praise of Trump for negotiating with the Taliban (and having one of their top guys released from prison).

www.newsweek.com

GOP Removes Page Praising Donald Trump's 'Historic' Peace Deal With Taliban

The removal comes after Trump branded the withdrawal from Afghanistan "one of the greatest defeats in American history."
www.newsweek.com www.newsweek.com
 
jakefest said:
If we knew the country would fall in 72 hours and didn't leave measures in place to at the very least extract Americans and those that put their lives on the line to assist us, then it's even worse.

We should have left after OBL was killed if not before then. It was clear well before that moment that the country couldn't be governed or democracy inserted.

That said, the optics for this are really bad for us regardless of which opinion you hold around staying in country or leaving.
Click to expand...
The country didn't fall in 72 hours. This retrograde and Taliban resurgence has been going on for more than a year. Sadly the media didn't pay attention because they were too worried about everyone getting vaccinated. What you are seeing now has been planned for a long time. Yes, our government could have handled this much better. Now this finally collapsed happened quickly mostly because the government shamefully fled the country leaving their people to their fate.

We could have left after killing UBL, but the same thing would have happened. Barry knew it. Let's be honest. He didn't have the nads to order a withdraw. He knew this would happen. Hell, he's shut off his Instagram account right now.

The optic sucks because China and Russia will use it against us when jockeying for favor from countries we want to align with. However China and Russia's track record ain't that good either. The media will forget about this as quickly as a new crisis comes along. Hell, Biden's probably happy because for the next couple of weeks no one will ask about the border or inflation. This withdraw sucks, but the break up had to occur sometime. Not much has been going on in Afghanistan since about 2017. We've just been playing "wack-a-mole" for the last few years. We were really about to leave back in 2014 when ISIL popped up in Syria. When forces flowed back to the AOR, anti-terrorism ops there picked back up in Afghanistan too. The Afghans have had every opportunity to rid the country of the Taliban over the last 20 years. Maybe, just maybe, a few more of them should have stood up and fought? Freedom ain't free.
 
Lib friend just pointed out that Biden has to use his vacation or he loses it. I was owned.
 
PawsFan_ said:
The country didn't fall in 72 hours. This retrograde and Taliban resurgence has been going on for more than a year. Sadly the media didn't pay attention because they were too worried about everyone getting vaccinated. What you are seeing now has been planned for a long time. Yes, our government could have handled this much better. Now this finally collapsed happened quickly mostly because the government shamefully fled the country leaving their people to their fate.

We could have left after killing UBL, but the same thing would have happened. Barry knew it. Let's be honest. He didn't have the nads to order a withdraw. He knew this would happen. Hell, he's shut off his Instagram account right now.

The optic sucks because China and Russia will use it against us when jockeying for favor from countries we want to align with. However China and Russia's track record ain't that good either. The media will forget about this as quickly as a new crisis comes along. Hell, Biden's probably happy because for the next couple of weeks no one will ask about the border or inflation. This withdraw sucks, but the break up had to occur sometime. Not much has been going on in Afghanistan since about 2017. We've just been playing "wack-a-mole" for the last few years. We were really about to leave back in 2014 when ISIL popped up in Syria. When forces flowed back to the AOR, anti-terrorism ops there picked back up in Afghanistan too. The Afghans have had every opportunity to rid the country of the Taliban over the last 20 years. Maybe, just maybe, a few more of them should have stood up and fought? Freedom ain't free.
Click to expand...

Great insight. Thanks for sharing.
 
adgjunior said:
Here's a good editorial about the root of this failure from a former Obama appointee.

Holding powerful people accountable should be practiced by all - regardless of party affiliation.
Click to expand...
F**k yes. This goes all the way back to the Bush crime family.
 
PawsFan_ said:
The country didn't fall in 72 hours. This retrograde and Taliban resurgence has been going on for more than a year. Sadly the media didn't pay attention because they were too worried about everyone getting vaccinated. What you are seeing now has been planned for a long time. Yes, our government could have handled this much better. Now this finally collapsed happened quickly mostly because the government shamefully fled the country leaving their people to their fate.

We could have left after killing UBL, but the same thing would have happened. Barry knew it. Let's be honest. He didn't have the nads to order a withdraw. He knew this would happen. Hell, he's shut off his Instagram account right now.

The optic sucks because China and Russia will use it against us when jockeying for favor from countries we want to align with. However China and Russia's track record ain't that good either. The media will forget about this as quickly as a new crisis comes along. Hell, Biden's probably happy because for the next couple of weeks no one will ask about the border or inflation. This withdraw sucks, but the break up had to occur sometime. Not much has been going on in Afghanistan since about 2017. We've just been playing "wack-a-mole" for the last few years. We were really about to leave back in 2014 when ISIL popped up in Syria. When forces flowed back to the AOR, anti-terrorism ops there picked back up in Afghanistan too. The Afghans have had every opportunity to rid the country of the Taliban over the last 20 years. Maybe, just maybe, a few more of them should have stood up and fought? Freedom ain't free.
Click to expand...
That's all great. But wtf were we there? Petrodollar hegemony is the right answer. How many 12yo girls are being raped right now?
 
nytigerfan said:
GOP already trying to rewrite history and their praise of Trump for negotiating with the Taliban (and having one of their top guys released from prison).

www.newsweek.com

GOP Removes Page Praising Donald Trump's 'Historic' Peace Deal With Taliban

The removal comes after Trump branded the withdrawal from Afghanistan "one of the greatest defeats in American history."
www.newsweek.com www.newsweek.com
Click to expand...
biden-02-1.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: TigerGrowls
Willence said:
One thing the last two administrations have totally gotten wrong is our withdrawal from Afghanistan. We've given a lot of lives and a lot of effort to providing some semblance of order to that nation. Now we're pulling out and everything is falling apart. What was the point of going if we weren't going to hold things together? Politicians refer to endless wars but we've had (I believe) 1 combat death there in the last 18 months or so. We had 3500 troops stationed there. We still have 26,000 troops in South Korea. We have 6200 in Guam. We have 36k in Germany. We have 12k in Italy. We have 4k in Bahrain. The list goes on and on.

As a result of this, girls will be pulled out schools. Many will be raped. Anyone that tried to help the US build something in Afghanistan will be tortured or killed or perhaps both. We've just dishonored all we sent our troops to do there and almost guaranteed we'll have to be back there again at some point. All for politics? We are such a stupid country these days led by such stupid and self-serving people. It's disgusting what we've done there based on a false narrative. What idiot would ever trust the US to do what's right and stand by them any more?
Click to expand...
I see your point and I liked the post because you made it very well. I even agree with some of your points, especially about what's going to happen with the folks we've left behind.

I disagree with you completely on your conclusions though. First of all Afghanistan is not even a real country. There's no history of the folks there sharing common beliefs or working together at all. Great Briton created modern day Afghanistan by essentially drawing the place out on the map and saying that it was a country. The fact of the matter is that it has a LOT in common with the Middle East (which it borders) in that its people have been merrily killing each other over religion and tribal issues since mankind has been keeping up with history.

Many countries have gone in and tried to "help" them. It always ends the same way. I've no idea how old you are, but I remember after 911 when we invaded Afghanistan to get Osama. I supported that invasion b/c you can't let someone simply sit in a country and take pot shots at you whenever they feel like it. I also remember President Bush ASSURING us that we were NOT THERE to nation build. Of course that was bullshit and we've spent a TON of cash and a lot of blood over the last 20 years trying to do exactly that. Almost 2500 troops lost their lives and over 20K were wounded.

We've trained and given aid and support for over 20 years. And after all that, when we pull back, the whole damn country falls in two weeks... two weeks man. I don't pretend to be an expert, but I have to say that after 20 years of training and with a standing army of about 180 thousand troops armed with US weapons and equipment, I expected them to not allow a force armed with light infantry weapons and pickup trucks to simply take every regional capitol w/o a single defeat. NOT ONE.

Maybe we do suck at training... Maybe they suck at learning... Maybe it's somewhere in between, or maybe there's something that we are completely missing. But if this is the result of 20 years of effort, It might be time to admit that whatever we were doing didn't work and isn't likely to.

God knows I'm no fan of Trump's, but he's 100% right on this one. We don't belong in this part of the world and the only reason we were ever there in the first place was for the oil. He made the right call for us to leave and the only complaint I have for Biden is that he delayed the process. We've got enough domestic production potential to hold us until we can get off that particular sauce.
 
What a weak AF speech.....the f*cking Taliban took more questions than Biden did. Disgrace
 
CU Alumnus said:
That plane has four engines. The outermost engine on the RHS is out of frame. You can just see the two engines on the left wing for a second. I'm no expert but it looks like a C-17.

As to the rest - I can't say. The plane does look to be moving slowly but some of the "motion" is from the camera moving.
Click to expand...
Yeah the first picture I saw wasn't a good one. I can't see video at work. I saw it later. It was. I can't imagine being that plane commander.
 
PawsFan_ said:
Yeah the first picture I saw wasn't a good one. I can't see video at work. I saw it later. It was. I can't imagine being that plane commander.
Click to expand...
Being a pilot would be better than the schmucks on the ground and the loadmaster probably having to beat people back with sticks to keep them from getting on.
 
When this happens it makes you wonder about the people “responsible” for curbing disinformation.

news.gab.com

Big Tech’s Role In Helping The Taliban Capture Afghanistan

It has been widely reported that Taliban leaders used Facebook's WhatsApp and Twitter to help capture Kabul. Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid enjoys free reign on Twitter with an account that has over 300,000 followers. Facebook's WhatsApp has become the de facto communication platform of...
news.gab.com news.gab.com
 
SconnyTiger25 said:
When this happens it makes you wonder about the people “responsible” for curbing disinformation.

news.gab.com

Big Tech’s Role In Helping The Taliban Capture Afghanistan

It has been widely reported that Taliban leaders used Facebook's WhatsApp and Twitter to help capture Kabul. Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid enjoys free reign on Twitter with an account that has over 300,000 followers. Facebook's WhatsApp has become the de facto communication platform of...
news.gab.com news.gab.com
Click to expand...
And yet Ex president Trump is banned! This country is so effed up
 
  • Like
Reactions: TigerGrowls and SconnyTiger25
Supposedly the VP of Afghanistan and the son of a well respected Afghan general have formed a new "Northern Alliance" and have retaken a few cities from the Taliban.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

DrTigerGoob

Trump Administration Stupid Quotes

Replies
1
Views
82
House Of Politics & Off-Topics
DrTigerGoob
DrTigerGoob
scotchtiger

Interested in the board's opinion on this (SNAP benefit limitations)

Replies
74
Views
1K
House Of Politics & Off-Topics
CUTiger1977
CUTiger1977
aks121488

Black mold in newish home

Replies
28
Views
2K
The West Zone
LiqMadiq
LiqMadiq
TigerGrowls

Clint Eastwood

Replies
0
Views
232
House Of Politics & Off-Topics
TigerGrowls
TigerGrowls
TigerGrowls

Benghazi

Replies
0
Views
104
House Of Politics & Off-Topics
TigerGrowls
TigerGrowls
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT
Top Bottom
Back