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OT - Albuquerque to replace police with social workers for certain calls

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The Jack Dunlap Club
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Nov 30, 2007
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I think Albuquerque may be onto something here. They are going to stop sending police officers to calls involving drunks, mental health, homelessness, addiction, stuff like that. Things that cops get dragged into that they aren't trained for.

This might actually work. I hear cops talk about how dealing with this kind of stuff is taxing as hell. Maybe this will let them focus on the actual criminals.

If they do this right, it has a real chance to work.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/albuquerque-social-workers-911-calls

Note - Albuquerque is really freaking hard to spell.
 
I think Albuquerque may be onto something here. They are going to stop sending police officers to calls involving drunks, mental health, homelessness, addiction, stuff like that. Things that cops get dragged into that they aren't trained for.

This might actually work. I hear cops talk about how dealing with this kind of stuff is taxing as hell. Maybe this will let them focus on the actual criminals.

If they do this right, it has a real chance to work.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/albuquerque-social-workers-911-calls

Note - Albuquerque is really freaking hard to spell.

If I understand correctly, this is what "Defund the Police" really means. Fund other experts and have police deal with issues that are outside the typical police purvue.
 
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It sounds great in theory, but it fails in practical application.

Police do have limited options when it comes to mental health related cases. They either arrest them, leave them or if there is injury dump them at the hospitals. In Georgia its called a 1013, 1014 or 1015 form depending on where the encounter first occurred and where they have to be taken. None of that is usually in the best long term interest of the person. Its a short term/immediate danger prospect. So yes, a social worker could have more options than police in that situation. But most folks having behavioral or drug issues will not consent and they usually pose a safety issues. It wouldn't be wise to send a social worker into that situation alone.

But the other problem is, with certain exceptions, social workers don't have the authority to intervene without the patients permission. Even in the case of safety, the social worker can't take them into custody. The person could just tell the social worker to get out and there isn't anything they can do about it. In Georgia you have a number of cities that put a social workers in ambulances working in concert with EMTs/Paramedics who do have the authority to take the individual. But there are fewer situations where a social worker alone would be sufficient.
 
If I understand correctly, this is what "Defund the Police" really means. Fund other experts and have police deal with issues that are outside the typical police purvue.

It depends on who's talking about it. And it's misleading as hell if it means what my OP is talking about.

It should be "reform the police" or "redesign the police" or something.

I can see a Social worker showing up on a call and the person is high on something and gets the ever lasting crap beat out of them.

There are going to be issues. Which is why I'm happy Albabwhatsitsnuts is trying it 1000+ miles away from me.
 
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So being a social worker is now a 24/7 job huh. I see it lasting until the first one gets the living crap beat out of them by a drunk.
 
It sounds great in theory, but it fails in practical application.

Police do have limited options when it comes to mental health related cases. They either arrest them, leave them or if there is injury dump them at the hospitals. In Georgia its called a 1013, 1014 or 1015 form depending on where the encounter first occurred and where they have to be taken. None of that is usually in the best long term interest of the person. Its a short term/immediate danger prospect. So yes, a social worker could have more options than police in that situation. But most folks having behavioral or drug issues will not consent and they usually pose a safety issues. It wouldn't be wise to send a social worker into that situation alone.

But the other problem is, with certain exceptions, social workers don't have the authority to intervene without the patients permission. Even in the case of safety, the social worker can't take them into custody. The person could just tell the social worker to get out and there isn't anything they can do about it. In Georgia you have a number of cities that put a social workers in ambulances working in concert with EMTs/Paramedics who do have the authority to take the individual. But there are fewer situations where a social worker alone would be sufficient.
You can send both or have the social worker call for "backup" when needed.

There's a version out there that makes sense with this.

Have the social workers do the talking/deescalation and the cops be the "muscle" only when deemed necessary that someone needs to be arrested. Social worker does most of the paper work.
 
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So being a social worker is now a 24/7 job huh. I see it lasting until the first one gets the living crap beat out of them by a drunk.
Pretty easy to change the law to include them as an officer. Assaulting them carries a heavier sentence.

You're attacking the root of the problem, mental health, with an approach other than brute force. Social workers get threatened all the time as is.
 
What a terrible idea. What's a social worker gonna do when he/she shows up, unarmed, and some crackhead is beating his girlfriend within an inch of her life? They're going to call the cops. And whatever damage is caused in the time it takes from a social worker showing up until a cop shows up is the responsibility of whoever chose to make this stupid rule.
 
What a terrible idea. What's a social worker gonna do when he/she shows up, unarmed, and some crackhead is beating his girlfriend within an inch of her life? They're going to call the cops. And whatever damage is caused in the time it takes from a social worker showing up until a cop shows up is the responsibility of whoever chose to make this stupid rule.

Yes. You totally understand the suggestion.
 
It all comes back to properly training Law Enforcement and equipping them with the procedures that can aid in mitigating bad situations. They are going to happen anyway, it is unfortunate but true. Get rid of the Cowboy/Rogue LE or anyone that works in the Public Service Sector and put people in place that have good intentions.

Maybe having social workers working within the Police Department will help.
 
I think Albuquerque may be onto something here. They are going to stop sending police officers to calls involving drunks, mental health, homelessness, addiction, stuff like that. Things that cops get dragged into that they aren't trained for.

This might actually work. I hear cops talk about how dealing with this kind of stuff is taxing as hell. Maybe this will let them focus on the actual criminals.

If they do this right, it has a real chance to work.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/albuquerque-social-workers-911-calls

Note - Albuquerque is really freaking hard to spell.

Was talking to a cop other night and he said that they get called for the most ridiculous stuff. Said that hes been called countless times because a child is misbehaving or won't get on the bus.
 
Was talking to a cop other night and he said that they get called for the most ridiculous stuff. Said that hes been called countless times because a child is misbehaving or won't get on the bus.

Remember the thing at Spring Valley where the cop put the girl in a chokehold because she wouldn't get off her phone? He handled it poorly but why even call your resource officer for that?

Resource officer needs the ability to tell the principal that "that's not why I'm here."
 
It all comes back to properly training Law Enforcement and equipping them with the procedures that can aid in mitigating bad situations. They are going to happen anyway, it is unfortunate but true. Get rid of the Cowboy/Rogue LE or anyone that works in the Public Service Sector and put people in place that have good intentions.

Maybe having social workers working within the Police Department will help.

It's about putting people in a position to succeed, not to fail.

There's this idea that cops are a "catch all" for any issue, and that shouldn't be the case.

A lot of what a cop does - or the more extreme parts anyway - takes a certain attitude. A willingness to risk your life, etc. They face real dangers and have to have the guts to do it.

That same person is probably not the best option when a drugged-out meth head is having problems. To be perfect at what some cops are asked to do would be like asking a car to tow a 10,000 lb trailer, handle like a Lotus and accelerate like a dragster, while carrying a family of 5 in comfort. For $25,000.
 
Pretty easy to change the law to include them as an officer. Assaulting them carries a heavier sentence.

You're attacking the root of the problem, mental health, with an approach other than brute force. Social workers get threatened all the time as is.
Yeah....that's what a substance abuser will be thinking. "Hey, I can't hit this 120lb woman because I might get an extra year on my sentence." Dread the thought.
 
You can send both or have the social worker call for "backup" when needed.

There's a version out there that makes sense with this.

Have the social workers do the talking/deescalation and the cops be the "muscle" only when deemed necessary that someone needs to be arrested. Social worker does most of the paper work.

So how does that save $$. Defunding the police would leave the social worker more exposed because you took the funding for that officer and moved it to the social worker. The social worker just isn't the right person in this scenario.

I fully agree that the police aren't the right people to handle most mental illness related calls. But in my experience working with hospitals, most mental illness related calls aren't limited to conditions linked to their illness. There is usually a safety to themselves or others aspect to it that requires some involuntary custody/treatment. Instead of NOT sending the police, a better option would be to send paramedics along with the police.
 
Remember the thing at Spring Valley where the cop put the girl in a chokehold because she wouldn't get off her phone? He handled it poorly but why even call your resource officer for that?

Resource officer needs the ability to tell the principal that "that's not why I'm here."

But that is not how the school sees it. You are paid by the school, and they often choose to use SRO for some pretty stupid stuff that school officials don't want to handle themselves that they could easily handle. School officials are just scared.
 
I think Albuquerque may be onto something here. They are going to stop sending police officers to calls involving drunks, mental health, homelessness, addiction, stuff like that. Things that cops get dragged into that they aren't trained for.

This might actually work. I hear cops talk about how dealing with this kind of stuff is taxing as hell. Maybe this will let them focus on the actual criminals.

If they do this right, it has a real chance to work.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/albuquerque-social-workers-911-calls

Note - Albuquerque is really freaking hard to spell.


What if a suspect has a weapon? Never know.
 
So how does that save $$. Defunding the police would leave the social worker more exposed because you took the funding for that officer and moved it to the social worker. The social worker just isn't the right person in this scenario.

I fully agree that the police aren't the right people to handle most mental illness related calls. But in my experience working with hospitals, most mental illness related calls aren't limited to conditions linked to their illness. There is usually a safety concern to themselves or to others aspect to it that requires some involuntary custody/treatment. Instead of NOT sending the police, a better option would be to send paramedics along with the police.

^^^^^^^^^^^
I couldn't tell you how many calls I saw for pick up orders (where a judge has determined an involuntary commitment is necessary) on mentally deranged persons. Or responses where individuals are talked down from hurting themselves or others. These people would be transported to the ER 99% of the time. They were either released by the doctor a few hours later simply because either no room for them at hospital (usually only have one rubber room and are told to followup at a small state run facility nearby), doctor finds person is not a danger to themselves or others, or no response from social services (DSS).

Usually the ER would just refill their meds if they were on any. Most of the mentally ill have been left behind by state budgets, and lack of facilities to go for treatment that aren't private a few decades ago. Most of the persons impacted are unisured or on medicaid.

Instead of yelling at LEO agencies on this issue people should yell at their legislative bodies or belly up and donate to fund private facilities for vulnerable mentally ill people like the homeless, or start accepting that significant tax increases are required to fund places like the old mental hospital on Bull Street.

Prime example of stupidity by government trying to save a buck (that the public went along with) was when the state of SC stopped cutting grass on the interstates for a few years.

Also, this applies to teachers as well where the public just expected them to be the parent of their child while at work. There are so many resources that could be utilized, but under funded because of ridiculous costs for unnecessary crap.

Cops were sent to handle calls that they were really never intended to handle. Cops should be there for criminal complaints only not all this other BS that wastes resources and time.

Parents today are just not equipped to handle their kids it seems (most are lazy). Way to quick to make it someone else's problem. Tax payers just need to fork out the money.

Sending a social worker to a drunk call is just ridiculous and stupid. Just lock them up, put them in a cab, or call EMS to transport. Most of the time you are saving a drunk from either becoming a crime victim (mugging, assault, fighting, etc), hurting themselves (injuries), or hurting others (DUI).

Edit: Now these have been my experiences in SC. I am sure in large densely populated and liberal corrupt controlled sh$t hole cities like Baltimore, Philly, NYC, LA this is probably not the case.
 
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So how does that save $$. Defunding the police would leave the social worker more exposed because you took the funding for that officer and moved it to the social worker. The social worker just isn't the right person in this scenario.

I fully agree that the police aren't the right people to handle most mental illness related calls. But in my experience working with hospitals, most mental illness related calls aren't limited to conditions linked to their illness. There is usually a safety to themselves or others aspect to it that requires some involuntary custody/treatment. Instead of NOT sending the police, a better option would be to send paramedics along with the police.
He only shows up at the beginning to see if the suspect is unruly or combative and then doesn't have to do any follow up paper work. Saves hours per call.
 
But that is not how the school sees it. You are paid by the school, and they often choose to use SRO for some pretty stupid stuff that school officials don't want to handle themselves that they could easily handle. School officials are just scared.

Does the school pay the resource officer directly or do they pay the law enforcement office? Because if they got too uppity I'd pull the RSO out completely and station him outside.

To make a workable law enforcement model, several groups are going to have to come together. Schools are one of them with regards to RSOs. Or just give them private security.

What if a suspect has a weapon? Never know.

Then the social worker calls a cop.

Big key to this - if I'm in charge - is that the responding social worker is NOT called a police officer. If for no other reason than a PR move.
 
Was talking to a cop other night and he said that they get called for the most ridiculous stuff. Said that hes been called countless times because a child is misbehaving or won't get on the bus.

There's a video out there of three Portland police dealing with one of those Antifa types. Apparently she just wanted to bitch at them for a few minutes. I can't find it right now but they finally just walk away.

He only shows up at the beginning to see if the suspect is unruly or combative and then doesn't have to do any follow up paper work. Saves hours per call.

Here's another version - the 'social worker' has some police training but is more specialized in mental health, addiction, whatever. Could be armed, could be not, but they are a different branch of law enforcement and therefore more geared towards de-escalation, etc.

Different command structure all the way to the Mayor.
 
There's a video out there of three Portland police dealing with one of those Antifa types. Apparently she just wanted to bitch at them for a few minutes. I can't find it right now but they finally just walk away.



Here's another version - the 'social worker' has some police training but is more specialized in mental health, addiction, whatever. Could be armed, could be not, but they are a different branch of law enforcement and therefore more geared towards de-escalation, etc.

Different command structure all the way to the Mayor.
Exactly. There is a way to make this work without involving the police or minimally involving the police.
 
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