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OT - Elevation Church haters

firegiver

The Jack Dunlap Club
Gold Member
Sep 11, 2007
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I know I know... but I thought this video was too good not to share. How can you not get behind a guy with such great use of alliteration and high production value youtube vids?

Does he remind anyone else of the sham wow guy?

amd-shamwow-jpg.jpg

FurtickYelling.png



http://charlotte.cbslocal.com/2014/04/27/the-good-the-bad-everything-in-between-about-elevation-church/
 
I'm not the biggest churchgoer so maybe I miss a lot, but all the emphasis on tithing (here and in the NS threads) has really stuck out to me. I'm all for contributing, but my idea of it is more along the lines of a $20 in the collection plate.

Taking a full 10% of your income, which for a good chunk of the families on this board is probably in the 5 figure range, seems a bit extreme to me. Do a lot of people actually send large chunks of income like this to their church? Maybe I'm just in the dark.


This post was edited on 4/28 12:46 PM by scotchtiger
 
Originally posted by scotchtiger:
I'm not the biggest churchgoer so maybe I miss a lot, but all the emphasis on tithing (here and in the NS threads) has really stuck out to me. I'm all for contributing, but my idea of it is more along the lines of a $20 in the collection plate.

Taking a full 10% of your income, which for a good chunk of the families on this board is probably in the 5 figure range, seems a bit extreme to me. Do a lot of people actually send massive chunks of income like this to their church? Maybe I'm just in the dark.
In the article it says they pull in 400k a weekend in donations. Thats 20.8 million a year.
 
Originally posted by scotchtiger:
I'm not the biggest churchgoer so maybe I miss a lot, but all the emphasis on tithing (here and in the NS threads) has really stuck out to me. I'm all for contributing, but my idea of it is more along the lines of a $20 in the collection plate.

Taking a full 10% of your income, which for a good chunk of the families on this board is probably in the 5 figure range, seems a bit extreme to me. Do a lot of people actually send massive chunks of income like this to their church? Maybe I'm just in the dark.
My wife and I do. I told a little story about my tithing experience and that of some friends of ours in another thread. I know it sounds crazy, but when you do as Jesus/The Bible instructs and give 10% in tithe, that remaining 90% goes further than you could ever imagine, much further than when I didn't tithe and had all 100%.

It's tax deductible too, I'd much rather give my money to the Church, even if some of y'all think it's being stolen or used personally by an individual instead of the community, rather than give it to Obama/the government.
 
the guy just built a 3 million dollar house 16,000 square feet and claims he did it with only money from his book (which would have been impossible if not for the church & donations used to promote it)
 
I take issue with this paragraph from the article:

But that was then, and this is now. Fast forward to today, and it's pretty evident that mega churches have replaced small churches ? just as celebrity pastors have replaced humble community pastors.

That's just not the case. These mega churches have certainly exploded and found a niche, but they have not replaced the smaller and medium sized churches throughout the southeast. Now, a case could possibly made that they forecast to replace the normal churches. I certainly hope not.
 
Originally posted by Trading Tiger:
Originally posted by scotchtiger:
I'm not the biggest churchgoer so maybe I miss a lot, but all the emphasis on tithing (here and in the NS threads) has really stuck out to me. I'm all for contributing, but my idea of it is more along the lines of a $20 in the collection plate.

Taking a full 10% of your income, which for a good chunk of the families on this board is probably in the 5 figure range, seems a bit extreme to me. Do a lot of people actually send massive chunks of income like this to their church? Maybe I'm just in the dark.
My wife and I do. I told a little story about my tithing experience and that of some friends of ours in another thread. I know it sounds crazy, but when you do as Jesus/The Bible instructs and give 10% in tithe, that remaining 90% goes further than you could ever imagine, much further than when I didn't tithe and had all 100%.

It's tax deductible too, I'd much rather give my money to the Church, even if some of y'all think it's being stolen or used personally by an individual instead of the community, rather than give it to Obama/the government.
Wow.
 
I don't agree with the Obama part but the govt is horribly inefficient and I don't want to give them money either.

How efficient your church is depends of course.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
Originally posted by scotchtiger:
I'm not the biggest churchgoer so maybe I miss a lot, but all the emphasis on tithing (here and in the NS threads) has really stuck out to me. I'm all for contributing, but my idea of it is more along the lines of a $20 in the collection plate.

Taking a full 10% of your income, which for a good chunk of the families on this board is probably in the 5 figure range, seems a bit extreme to me. Do a lot of people actually send large chunks of income like this to their church? Maybe I'm just in the dark.



This post was edited on 4/28 12:46 PM by scotchtiger
I believe God asks for 10%. He has blessed me and my family with so much, that I wouldn't say that is asking a lot. Everything I have is a blessing from God, so I am just trying to be a good steward of what he has given.

I know many people who believe in tithing and many others who feel there is just no way they can get by without keeping that 10%. To me it is all faith, just as our faith in Jesus that we have been saved from our sins. It all goes together in my mind. To be honest, there have been times where the bills are due and I think "man could I use that tithe money". However, God has always provided for me and my family.

Tithing is just one part of being a believer in Christ. While I do a very good job of following this practice, I fall short in many other areas.
 
Originally posted by TheClemsonJaguar:
Tithing is a church-created donation. Jesus never mentioned tithing.
Tithing is throughout the Bible. If you believe in the church, why would you not believe in tithing? How else can the church function, grow, reach the lost, help the needy?

If you don't believe in the church, that is a different conversation all together.
 
My problem with NS and churches like Elevation (which I know nothing about except what I've read on here and the article above) is the absolute lack of transparency particularly with regard to pastor and staff salaries. If you are a member of these churches and are getting what you feel you need spiritually then more power to you. I think that is great. However, speaking for myself only, I wouldn't pony up another dime until I knew how much the staff, and more specifically, the pastors are making.

That really blows my mind that they get away without making that info readily available. It should be given out at least once a year when the budgets are reviewed and approved. The fact that it is not leads me to believe that the powers to be believe it would appear to be exorbitant to most. That's a problem.
 
Originally posted by TheClemsonJaguar:
Tithing is a church-created donation. Jesus never mentioned tithing.
Many of you are probably familiar with the Boston-area Catholic Church scandal from a few years back, with numerous priests being found guilty of pedophilia for decades, and the dirtiest of them all (Cardinal Bernie Law who knew what had occurred) being whisked away to the Vatican before the feds could grab him. Many hard-working, blue collar people in Boston donated money (tithing) to the Boston Archdiocese for years and it came out that much of that money funded an $80,000,000 water-front compound where these perverts sought refuge. made me sick then, makes me sick now.

This post was edited on 4/28 1:30 PM by jonalexand1
 
Originally posted by twtiger03:
Originally posted by TheClemsonJaguar:
Tithing is a church-created donation. Jesus never mentioned tithing.
Tithing is throughout the Bible. If you believe in the church, why would you not believe in tithing? How else can the church function, grow, reach the lost, help the needy?

If you don't believe in the church, that is a different conversation all together.
Tithing is discussed in the Old Testament as a means to ensure that the priests have enough to live on. Its is not discussed in the New Testament.

I agree with giving to the church and giving generously. But no church needs 10% of its members' revenue. Any church that pushes the 10% concept on its members is scary imo.
 
Originally posted by chassc:
I take issue with this paragraph from the article:

But that was then, and this is now. Fast forward to today, and it's pretty evident that mega churches have replaced small churches ? just as celebrity pastors have replaced humble community pastors.

That's just not the case. These mega churches have certainly exploded and found a niche, but they have not replaced the smaller and medium sized churches throughout the southeast. Now, a case could possibly made that they forecast to replace the normal churches. I certainly hope not.
I don't take issue with anything specifically in the article, but I do recognize the clear bias and slant of the entire article. I'm not the biggest Furtick fan, I don't like his preaching style and he has a big case of "small man syndrome"; it would not have been difficult at all to get me on board with what they were saying, but they just made an awful attempt of it.

Comparing Furtick to Jesus, really? "Would Jesus have done that?" LOL, comparing anyone to Jesus is the dumbest argument you could ever make. Quick, name the most righteous, do gooding person of all time you can think of...Mahatma Gandhi, Mother Teresa, The Pope, etc, etc...skid marks on Jesus's loin cloth. And as far as the writer's observations that all Furtick does is preach about money, that makes him a lot like Jesus. I'm guessing the writer isn't a big Bible reader.

Comparing how mega-churches get publicity but the "normal churches" do the same things, they just don't get publicity. Well, not exactly. See, the reason why mega-churches get publicity is because they do good deeds on a mega scale. Why are they able to do good deeds on a mega scale? Because they attract a lot of people. It's simple statistics. About 10% of church goers tithe, and I mean actually "tithe", give 10%, not Scotch's idea of tithing. I would also be willing to wager that certain churches have a higher percentage than that, but that's a different story. So, bring in more people and you bring in more money. How do you bring in more people? Well, you certainly can't do that if you force everyone to follow a strict dress code, or don't offer a support system for those who need one, or think that you're better than everyone else and treat your church like an exclusive country club. You have to spend money to make money. Elevation brings in more money in one weekend than many churches do in a year, or even longer. That's not meant as a brag or a put down to those other churches, but clearly Elevation is doing something right.

It's quite ironic to me, these threads have shown that history truly does repeat itself. In Jesus's day, it was the Pharisees saying "this is the way we do things, either get with the program or GTFO!" They crucified Jesus because he was calling them out, making them look stupid, trying to change their ways, and trying to show them that they were completely missing the point. Now, mega-churches, they're pastors, and their owners/members/attendees are the ones who are being persecuted by the "normal churches" because things are changing and they don't like it.
 
Originally posted by TheClemsonJaguar:
Originally posted by twtiger03:
Originally posted by TheClemsonJaguar:
Tithing is a church-created donation. Jesus never mentioned tithing.
Tithing is throughout the Bible. If you believe in the church, why would you not believe in tithing? How else can the church function, grow, reach the lost, help the needy?

If you don't believe in the church, that is a different conversation all together.
Tithing is discussed in the Old Testament as a means to ensure that the priests have enough to live on. Its is not discussed in the New Testament.

I agree with giving to the church and giving generously. But no church needs 10% of its members' revenue. Any church that pushes the 10% concept on its members is scary imo.
So, Matthew is in the Old Testament now?
 
Originally posted by twtiger03:
Originally posted by scotchtiger:
I'm not the biggest churchgoer so maybe I miss a lot, but all the emphasis on tithing (here and in the NS threads) has really stuck out to me. I'm all for contributing, but my idea of it is more along the lines of a $20 in the collection plate.

Taking a full 10% of your income, which for a good chunk of the families on this board is probably in the 5 figure range, seems a bit extreme to me. Do a lot of people actually send large chunks of income like this to their church? Maybe I'm just in the dark.



This post was edited on 4/28 12:46 PM by scotchtiger
I believe God asks for 10%. He has blessed me and my family with so much, that I wouldn't say that is asking a lot. Everything I have is a blessing from God, so I am just trying to be a good steward of what he has given.

I know many people who believe in tithing and many others who feel there is just no way they can get by without keeping that 10%. To me it is all faith, just as our faith in Jesus that we have been saved from our sins. It all goes together in my mind. To be honest, there have been times where the bills are due and I think "man could I use that tithe money". However, God has always provided for me and my family.

Tithing is just one part of being a believer in Christ. While I do a very good job of following this practice, I fall short in many other areas.
Is there anywhere in the bible that God asks for a specific percentage of your income? If so, the bible states 1/10?

I get if it's truly used to keep the church functioning and/or for charitable use but it doesn't bother some of you to see that money used to line people's pockets and allow them to live lavishly? Is an enormous house humble and Godly?
 
Originally posted by twtiger03:
Originally posted by scotchtiger:
I'm not the biggest churchgoer so maybe I miss a lot, but all the emphasis on tithing (here and in the NS threads) has really stuck out to me. I'm all for contributing, but my idea of it is more along the lines of a $20 in the collection plate.

Taking a full 10% of your income, which for a good chunk of the families on this board is probably in the 5 figure range, seems a bit extreme to me. Do a lot of people actually send large chunks of income like this to their church? Maybe I'm just in the dark.



This post was edited on 4/28 12:46 PM by scotchtiger
I believe God asks for 10%. He has blessed me and my family with so much, that I wouldn't say that is asking a lot. Everything I have is a blessing from God, so I am just trying to be a good steward of what he has given.

I know many people who believe in tithing and many others who feel there is just no way they can get by without keeping that 10%. To me it is all faith, just as our faith in Jesus that we have been saved from our sins. It all goes together in my mind. To be honest, there have been times where the bills are due and I think "man could I use that tithe money". However, God has always provided for me and my family.

Tithing is just one part of being a believer in Christ. While I do a very good job of following this practice, I fall short in many other areas.
Appreciate your perspective.
 
Originally posted by TheClemsonJaguar:

Originally posted by twtiger03:

Originally posted by TheClemsonJaguar:
Tithing is a church-created donation. Jesus never mentioned tithing.
Tithing is throughout the Bible. If you believe in the church, why would you not believe in tithing? How else can the church function, grow, reach the lost, help the needy?

If you don't believe in the church, that is a different conversation all together.
Tithing is discussed in the Old Testament as a means to ensure that the priests have enough to live on. Its is not discussed in the New Testament.

I agree with giving to the church and giving generously. But no church needs 10% of its members' revenue. Any church that pushes the 10% concept on its members is scary imo.
The tithe in the bible is not only for the priest. It is also mentioned in the Old Testament and New Testament as a way to take care of the community. It is a way to give back for what God has given you.

Many churches would not be shutting their doors if their members more closely followed this practice. Also, many communities would not need as much government assistance if more churches had this money.

I agree tithing will always be a part of the bible that is debated, regarding how important it is, and how much should be given.
 
Originally posted by chapintiger:

Originally posted by TheClemsonJaguar:
Originally posted by twtiger03:
Originally posted by TheClemsonJaguar:
Tithing is a church-created donation. Jesus never mentioned tithing.
Tithing is throughout the Bible. If you believe in the church, why would you not believe in tithing? How else can the church function, grow, reach the lost, help the needy?

If you don't believe in the church, that is a different conversation all together.
Tithing is discussed in the Old Testament as a means to ensure that the priests have enough to live on. Its is not discussed in the New Testament.

I agree with giving to the church and giving generously. But no church needs 10% of its members' revenue. Any church that pushes the 10% concept on its members is scary imo.
So, Matthew is in the Old Testament now?
Really? Show me where it is discussed in Matthew.
 
Originally posted by TheClemsonJaguar:

Originally posted by twtiger03:

Originally posted by TheClemsonJaguar:
Tithing is a church-created donation. Jesus never mentioned tithing.
Tithing is throughout the Bible. If you believe in the church, why would you not believe in tithing? How else can the church function, grow, reach the lost, help the needy?

If you don't believe in the church, that is a different conversation all together.
Tithing is discussed in the Old Testament as a means to ensure that the priests have enough to live on. Its is not discussed in the New Testament.

I agree with giving to the church and giving generously. But no church needs 10% of its members' revenue. Any church that pushes the 10% concept on its members is scary imo.
Typical anti-tithe answer.

Actually, in the Old Testament, there were several different tithes. Yes, one of them was for the priests. Back in those days, tithing was closer to 30-40% in 3-4 tithes going towards different purposes. I do not know the verses to quote for you, if you'd like, I'll ask my friend who is much more educated on this matter than me and give you those verses tomorrow.

Tithing is most certainly mentioned by Jesus and discussed in the New Testament.
 
Originally posted by twtiger03:
The tithe in the bible is not only for the priest. It is also mentioned in the Old Testament and New Testament as a way to take care of the community. It is a way to give back for what God has given you.
Many churches would not be shutting their doors if their members more closely followed this practice. Also, many communities would not need as much government assistance if more churches had this money.

I agree tithing will always be a part of the bible that is debated, regarding how important it is, and how much should be given.
It is not discussed as a requirement in the NT. It was the local law in the OT.

I respect those who give 10% to their church. I do not like seeing it forced on church members as a requirement as I believe that requirement is man made.
 
Originally posted by ddot7:

Originally posted by twtiger03:
Originally posted by scotchtiger:
I'm not the biggest churchgoer so maybe I miss a lot, but all the emphasis on tithing (here and in the NS threads) has really stuck out to me. I'm all for contributing, but my idea of it is more along the lines of a $20 in the collection plate.

Taking a full 10% of your income, which for a good chunk of the families on this board is probably in the 5 figure range, seems a bit extreme to me. Do a lot of people actually send large chunks of income like this to their church? Maybe I'm just in the dark.



This post was edited on 4/28 12:46 PM by scotchtiger
I believe God asks for 10%. He has blessed me and my family with so much, that I wouldn't say that is asking a lot. Everything I have is a blessing from God, so I am just trying to be a good steward of what he has given.

I know many people who believe in tithing and many others who feel there is just no way they can get by without keeping that 10%. To me it is all faith, just as our faith in Jesus that we have been saved from our sins. It all goes together in my mind. To be honest, there have been times where the bills are due and I think "man could I use that tithe money". However, God has always provided for me and my family.

Tithing is just one part of being a believer in Christ. While I do a very good job of following this practice, I fall short in many other areas.
Is there anywhere in the bible that God asks for a specific percentage of your income? If so, the bible states 1/10?

I get if it's truly used to keep the church functioning and/or for charitable use but it doesn't bother some of you to see that money used to line people's pockets and allow them to live lavishly? Is an enormous house humble and Godly?
Not really because I don't tithe to those types of churches. Many of your more traditional community churches often operate at a loss for periods of time and the pastors and staff do not live lavishly. But yes, if I were a member of one of those churches, which I wouldn't be, specifically for the reasons I mentioned in my post above, I would be bothered.
 
Originally posted by TheClemsonJaguar:
Originally posted by chapintiger:

Originally posted by TheClemsonJaguar:
Originally posted by twtiger03:
Originally posted by TheClemsonJaguar:
Tithing is a church-created donation. Jesus never mentioned tithing.
Tithing is throughout the Bible. If you believe in the church, why would you not believe in tithing? How else can the church function, grow, reach the lost, help the needy?

If you don't believe in the church, that is a different conversation all together.
Tithing is discussed in the Old Testament as a means to ensure that the priests have enough to live on. Its is not discussed in the New Testament.

I agree with giving to the church and giving generously. But no church needs 10% of its members' revenue. Any church that pushes the 10% concept on its members is scary imo.
So, Matthew is in the Old Testament now?
Really? Show me where it is discussed in Matthew.
23 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth[/URL] of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness.[/URL] You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
 
Originally posted by Trading Tiger:

Typical anti-tithe answer.

Actually, in the Old Testament, there were several different tithes. Yes, one of them was for the priests. Back in those days, tithing was closer to 30-40% in 3-4 tithes going towards different purposes. I do not know the verses to quote for you, if you'd like, I'll ask my friend who is much more educated on this matter than me and give you those verses tomorrow.

Tithing is most certainly mentioned by Jesus and discussed in the New Testament.
I have read plenty on it and understand the multiple tithes.

Its referenced in Matthew but never discussed as some requirement. You are wrong there.
 
Originally posted by chapintiger:

Originally posted by TheClemsonJaguar:
Originally posted by chapintiger:

Originally posted by TheClemsonJaguar:
Originally posted by twtiger03:
Originally posted by TheClemsonJaguar:
Tithing is a church-created donation. Jesus never mentioned tithing.
Tithing is throughout the Bible. If you believe in the church, why would you not believe in tithing? How else can the church function, grow, reach the lost, help the needy?

If you don't believe in the church, that is a different conversation all together.
Tithing is discussed in the Old Testament as a means to ensure that the priests have enough to live on. Its is not discussed in the New Testament.

I agree with giving to the church and giving generously. But no church needs 10% of its members' revenue. Any church that pushes the 10% concept on its members is scary imo.
So, Matthew is in the Old Testament now?
Really? Show me where it is discussed in Matthew.
23 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth[/URL] of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness.[/URL] You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
I know it well and its an enormous stretch to use that as Jesus requiring Christians to tithe.
 
Please read your Bible...


...It speaks of tithing specifically. 10% is what is expected. Do not worry where it goes. Simply give it with a generous heart. You will be blessed many times more.
 
DID ANYONE UNDERSTAND 10% OF THAT VIDEO? WTF WAS HE EVEN TALKING ABOUT? AREN'T THE "HATERS" THE PEOPLE WHO'S SOULS HE'S TRYING TO SAVE FROM REPEATED VOLCANO DEATH?
 
Originally posted by TheClemsonJaguar:
Originally posted by Trading Tiger:

Typical anti-tithe answer.

Actually, in the Old Testament, there were several different tithes. Yes, one of them was for the priests. Back in those days, tithing was closer to 30-40% in 3-4 tithes going towards different purposes. I do not know the verses to quote for you, if you'd like, I'll ask my friend who is much more educated on this matter than me and give you those verses tomorrow.

Tithing is most certainly mentioned by Jesus and discussed in the New Testament.
I have read plenty on it and understand the multiple tithes.

Its referenced in Matthew but never discussed as some requirement. You are wrong there.
You're right. Jesus never said give ten percent or you will burn in hell for eternity. And he's only interested in what he "requires" of us. So you are clearly safe in that regard.



This post was edited on 4/28 2:09 PM by chapintiger
 
Originally posted by ddot7:


Originally posted by twtiger03:

Originally posted by scotchtiger:
I'm not the biggest churchgoer so maybe I miss a lot, but all the emphasis on tithing (here and in the NS threads) has really stuck out to me. I'm all for contributing, but my idea of it is more along the lines of a $20 in the collection plate.

Taking a full 10% of your income, which for a good chunk of the families on this board is probably in the 5 figure range, seems a bit extreme to me. Do a lot of people actually send large chunks of income like this to their church? Maybe I'm just in the dark.




This post was edited on 4/28 12:46 PM by scotchtiger
I believe God asks for 10%. He has blessed me and my family with so much, that I wouldn't say that is asking a lot. Everything I have is a blessing from God, so I am just trying to be a good steward of what he has given.

I know many people who believe in tithing and many others who feel there is just no way they can get by without keeping that 10%. To me it is all faith, just as our faith in Jesus that we have been saved from our sins. It all goes together in my mind. To be honest, there have been times where the bills are due and I think "man could I use that tithe money". However, God has always provided for me and my family.

Tithing is just one part of being a believer in Christ. While I do a very good job of following this practice, I fall short in many other areas.
Is there anywhere in the bible that God asks for a specific percentage of your income? If so, the bible states 1/10?

I get if it's truly used to keep the church functioning and/or for charitable use but it doesn't bother some of you to see that money used to line people's pockets and allow them to live lavishly? Is an enormous house humble and Godly?
Yes, it would bother me to see this money used to "line people's pockest and allow them to live lavishly" to a certain extent. I believe there is a line that can be drawn for what is considered going overboard for a pastor. However, finding that line is not so easy, and it wouild vary with each person you ask.

What is living lavishly? You will get a different answer from almost everyone. To some, having an iphone is living lavishly. To others it might be a 50inch with surround sound, Netflix, HBO, AppleTV. That is normal to many people on TI. Some would say driving a Tahoe, while others would say a Mercedes.

I believe any pastor should be able to live as well as others in our society. I don't see why their wife and kids shouldn't live as well off as the rest of us. Now, how large the church is, the financials of the church, the money coming in and going out, should all play a part in the preachers salary.

Do I see any reason someone should make half a mil from the church they preach? No, I don't. That would be a little bothersome to me. Although I am sure some could argue that depending on the size of the church, it may be a smaller piece of the pie that a pastor makes a smaller churches. Still, that seems overbard to me.

What a preacher makes on their own, as far as books and speaking engagements, I don't see why that should really be my business. Also, I wouldn't know what they do with that money as far as tithes/giving to charity/helping others, so why should I be the one to judge them?
 
Originally posted by chapintiger:

Originally posted by TheClemsonJaguar:
Originally posted by Trading Tiger:

Typical anti-tithe answer.

Actually, in the Old Testament, there were several different tithes. Yes, one of them was for the priests. Back in those days, tithing was closer to 30-40% in 3-4 tithes going towards different purposes. I do not know the verses to quote for you, if you'd like, I'll ask my friend who is much more educated on this matter than me and give you those verses tomorrow.

Tithing is most certainly mentioned by Jesus and discussed in the New Testament.
I have read plenty on it and understand the multiple tithes.

Its referenced in Matthew but never discussed as some requirement. You are wrong there.
You're right. Jesus never said give ten percent or you will burn in hell for eternity. And he's only interested in what he "requires" of us. So you are clearly safe in that regard.



This post was edited on 4/28 2:09 PM by chapintiger
My point is this: there exists a large number of churches that emphasize tithing over so many other aspects of Jesus' teachings; yet, those churches have to stretch Jesus' lecture about the Pharisees to work tithing into the NT. I see something very wrong with that. Jesus made plenty of statements as to giving generously. They fill the NT. It is the chucrhes that have clung to the 10%.
 
Originally posted by TheClemsonJaguar:
Originally posted by Trading Tiger:

Typical anti-tithe answer.

Actually, in the Old Testament, there were several different tithes. Yes, one of them was for the priests. Back in those days, tithing was closer to 30-40% in 3-4 tithes going towards different purposes. I do not know the verses to quote for you, if you'd like, I'll ask my friend who is much more educated on this matter than me and give you those verses tomorrow.

Tithing is most certainly mentioned by Jesus and discussed in the New Testament.
I have read plenty on it and understand the multiple tithes.

Its referenced in Matthew but never discussed as some requirement. You are wrong there.


If that's how you are choosing to look at it, there is only 1 requirement, and tithing isn't it. But that's not what you were trying to say, we both know it. Jesus brought an end to a lot of the laws and traditions of the Old Testament, but tithing wasn't one of them.
 
Originally posted by Trading Tiger:

If that's how you are choosing to look at it, there is only 1 requirement, and tithing isn't it. But that's not what you were trying to say, we both know it. Jesus brought an end to a lot of the laws and traditions of the Old Testament, but tithing wasn't one of them.
And that is based on the one sentence in Matthew? Interesting. Everyone can interpret the Bible in their own way.
 
Originally posted by scotchtiger:
I'm not the biggest churchgoer so maybe I miss a lot, but all the emphasis on tithing (here and in the NS threads) has really stuck out to me. I'm all for contributing, but my idea of it is more along the lines of a $20 in the collection plate.

Taking a full 10% of your income, which for a good chunk of the families on this board is probably in the 5 figure range, seems a bit extreme to me. Do a lot of people actually send large chunks of income like this to their church? Maybe I'm just in the dark.



This post was edited on 4/28 12:46 PM by scotchtiger
Purely from a Christian's perspective...

Yes. I believe the Bible is the word of God, and the Bible instructs us to give 10% of our income. So my wife and I give 10% out of every pay check. People can argue whether 10% still applies based on the OT vs. NT covenants, but I absolutely believe it does. It is clear in the OT, and tithing/money is mentioned all throughout the NT. Also, I look at it like this way (which is consistent with the Bible): everything we have is given to us by God. We didn't earn anything without God's grace. Everything on this planet and everything that we own is His and has been given to us as a blessing. The Bible also teaches us that our money is either blessed or cursed. I want my money to be blessed, and I don't think that giving God $1 out of every $10 that I make is asking too much, again considering that He can give and take away as He chooses. Just my stance on tithing...
 
Originally posted by twtiger03:
Originally posted by ddot7:


Originally posted by twtiger03:

Originally posted by scotchtiger:
I'm not the biggest churchgoer so maybe I miss a lot, but all the emphasis on tithing (here and in the NS threads) has really stuck out to me. I'm all for contributing, but my idea of it is more along the lines of a $20 in the collection plate.

Taking a full 10% of your income, which for a good chunk of the families on this board is probably in the 5 figure range, seems a bit extreme to me. Do a lot of people actually send large chunks of income like this to their church? Maybe I'm just in the dark.




This post was edited on 4/28 12:46 PM by scotchtiger
I believe God asks for 10%. He has blessed me and my family with so much, that I wouldn't say that is asking a lot. Everything I have is a blessing from God, so I am just trying to be a good steward of what he has given.

I know many people who believe in tithing and many others who feel there is just no way they can get by without keeping that 10%. To me it is all faith, just as our faith in Jesus that we have been saved from our sins. It all goes together in my mind. To be honest, there have been times where the bills are due and I think "man could I use that tithe money". However, God has always provided for me and my family.

Tithing is just one part of being a believer in Christ. While I do a very good job of following this practice, I fall short in many other areas.
Is there anywhere in the bible that God asks for a specific percentage of your income? If so, the bible states 1/10?

I get if it's truly used to keep the church functioning and/or for charitable use but it doesn't bother some of you to see that money used to line people's pockets and allow them to live lavishly? Is an enormous house humble and Godly?
Yes, it would bother me to see this money used to "line people's pockest and allow them to live lavishly" to a certain extent. I believe there is a line that can be drawn for what is considered going overboard for a pastor. However, finding that line is not so easy, and it wouild vary with each person you ask.

What is living lavishly? You will get a different answer from almost everyone. To some, having an iphone is living lavishly. To others it might be a 50inch with surround sound, Netflix, HBO, AppleTV. That is normal to many people on TI. Some would say driving a Tahoe, while others would say a Mercedes.

I believe any pastor should be able to live as well as others in our society. I don't see why their wife and kids shouldn't live as well off as the rest of us. Now, how large the church is, the financials of the church, the money coming in and going out, should all play a part in the preachers salary.

Do I see any reason someone should make half a mil from the church they preach? No, I don't. That would be a little bothersome to me. Although I am sure some could argue that depending on the size of the church, it may be a smaller piece of the pie that a pastor makes a smaller churches. Still, that seems overbard to me.

What a preacher makes on their own, as far as books and speaking engagements, I don't see why that should really be my business. Also, I wouldn't know what they do with that money as far as tithes/giving to charity/helping others, so why should I be the one to judge them?
First bold: Are you a member of NewSpring or another mega-church? If so, have you asked to see where your hard-earned money goes, specifically?

Second bold: How would one know if they were an owner of NewSpring? Their financials are no where near transparent.

Third bold: That's comforting to know. It's less comforting to know that there are tons of people who could be giving their hard-earned money directly to a community non-profit and actually making a difference to hundreds in need instead of giving to a so-called pastor.

I find it incomprehensible to think that there are people here in this forum blindly giving to a church or person rather, when instead they could be doing so much more with their dollars.
 
Originally posted by TheClemsonJaguar:

Everyone can interpret the Bible in their own way.
Agree.

Never seen a single religion thread where all religious people agreed on anything relating to The Bible.
 
Originally posted by SWUtigers:


Originally posted by twtiger03:

Originally posted by ddot7:



Originally posted by twtiger03:


Originally posted by scotchtiger:
I'm not the biggest churchgoer so maybe I miss a lot, but all the emphasis on tithing (here and in the NS threads) has really stuck out to me. I'm all for contributing, but my idea of it is more along the lines of a $20 in the collection plate.

Taking a full 10% of your income, which for a good chunk of the families on this board is probably in the 5 figure range, seems a bit extreme to me. Do a lot of people actually send large chunks of income like this to their church? Maybe I'm just in the dark.





This post was edited on 4/28 12:46 PM by scotchtiger
I believe God asks for 10%. He has blessed me and my family with so much, that I wouldn't say that is asking a lot. Everything I have is a blessing from God, so I am just trying to be a good steward of what he has given.

I know many people who believe in tithing and many others who feel there is just no way they can get by without keeping that 10%. To me it is all faith, just as our faith in Jesus that we have been saved from our sins. It all goes together in my mind. To be honest, there have been times where the bills are due and I think "man could I use that tithe money". However, God has always provided for me and my family.

Tithing is just one part of being a believer in Christ. While I do a very good job of following this practice, I fall short in many other areas.
Is there anywhere in the bible that God asks for a specific percentage of your income? If so, the bible states 1/10?

I get if it's truly used to keep the church functioning and/or for charitable use but it doesn't bother some of you to see that money used to line people's pockets and allow them to live lavishly? Is an enormous house humble and Godly?
Yes, it would bother me to see this money used to "line people's pockest and allow them to live lavishly" to a certain extent. I believe there is a line that can be drawn for what is considered going overboard for a pastor. However, finding that line is not so easy, and it wouild vary with each person you ask.

What is living lavishly? You will get a different answer from almost everyone. To some, having an iphone is living lavishly. To others it might be a 50inch with surround sound, Netflix, HBO, AppleTV. That is normal to many people on TI. Some would say driving a Tahoe, while others would say a Mercedes.

I believe any pastor should be able to live as well as others in our society. I don't see why their wife and kids shouldn't live as well off as the rest of us. Now, how large the church is, the financials of the church, the money coming in and going out, should all play a part in the preachers salary.

Do I see any reason someone should make half a mil from the church they preach? No, I don't. That would be a little bothersome to me. Although I am sure some could argue that depending on the size of the church, it may be a smaller piece of the pie that a pastor makes a smaller churches. Still, that seems overbard to me.

What a preacher makes on their own, as far as books and speaking engagements, I don't see why that should really be my business. Also, I wouldn't know what they do with that money as far as tithes/giving to charity/helping others, so why should I be the one to judge them?
First bold: Are you a member of NewSpring or another mega-church? If so, have you asked to see where your hard-earned money goes, specifically?

Second bold: How would one know if they were an owner of NewSpring? Their financials are no where near transparent.

Third bold: That's comforting to know. It's less comforting to know that there are tons of people who could be giving their hard-earned money directly to a community non-profit and actually making a difference to hundreds in need instead of giving to a so-called pastor.

I find it incomprehensible to think that there are people here in this forum blindly giving to a church or person rather, when instead they could be doing so much more with their dollars.
Wow. You are still obsessing over this? I'll ask you once again: would you like to meet me one Sunday so that you can (1) visit our church service, (2) meet our staff and (3) ask any questions you have? If not, then please move past this. This isn't your church anyway, so I don't understand your obsession with what we do and what we pay our pastor. Good grief get a day job.
 
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