At my company it has become obvious if you are a veteran staff then you are pretty much put out to pasture while they talk about the young professionals. It's obvious that age discrimination is taking place but it'd be impossible to prove
OT: For those who work for a large company do you see a movement to only focus on young staff?
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Welp. Welcome to reality. I've been working at a tech company for the last 5 years as a developer. We've exploded business wise and I certainly feel the pressure from these young kids, but its all good in my book. I use my experience and train them, make sure I'm important.
In lots of cases though they come in making close to the same pay as much more veteran employees. I would have less of a problem if they had more skills or knowledge but they don't. They also are not as loyal.
Nothing new as far as pay is concerned, this has been happening for many years.
As far as loyalty, there hasn't been any on the employer or employee side either for many years probably since our parents who used to work for the same company for many years, if not their whole career.
As an 'old', there's no way to answer that question effectively. The "market" is what it is (as much as I hate that expression).
I worked thirty-three years for a Fortune 100 company. I was paid reasonably well for a low-level grunt, but often overlooked - much of it my own fault - for advancement. But I recognized the need for new ideas, new blood, as it were, if we were going to move forward.
Sorry for the trite answer, but I got nothing more. It's a bitch.
This is the crux of it. Employers have not been loyal so the employees have adjusted. Its lead to an ever competitive marketplace.
Yes. Maybe my opinion will change in about 20 years but .,.. baby boomers suck.
At least the early GenXrs try, but baby boomers are expensive and useless.... at least in my field
At least the early GenXrs try, but baby boomers are expensive and useless.... at least in my field
Useless people in every generation. Boomers an Xers certainly see fault with Millennials lack of respect and entitlement. All generations have their benefits.
I’ve done a lot of research and heard from a lot of speakers on generational differences (only bc of my work, not as a hobby). Gen X’ers are the most flawed emotionally and are bigger loners. And yes, I’m a Gen X’er. Hard to argue w the explanation.
To Op, I’m not a lawyer but you’ll need specific, not general examples. That’s my guess. Then you’ll need proof that they passed you over specifically bc you are old. I believe you that there is a wave of younger employers, but that’s at almost every company.
To Op, I’m not a lawyer but you’ll need specific, not general examples. That’s my guess. Then you’ll need proof that they passed you over specifically bc you are old. I believe you that there is a wave of younger employers, but that’s at almost every company.
There’s a balance the company has to find.
New ideas, tech savvy. Energetic
vs
Loyal, grateful, timely, dependable
Not putting one group over the other, just the way it is. A lot of the things that were valued when I came into the workforce, aren’t as highly sought after anymore. A friend of mine told me that the worst thing a prospective employee can say about themselves is that they are loyal. He hears “complacent”. He wants throat-cutters.
New ideas, tech savvy. Energetic
vs
Loyal, grateful, timely, dependable
Not putting one group over the other, just the way it is. A lot of the things that were valued when I came into the workforce, aren’t as highly sought after anymore. A friend of mine told me that the worst thing a prospective employee can say about themselves is that they are loyal. He hears “complacent”. He wants throat-cutters.
I work in a technology center with lots of Engineers. Our bias is to have engineers with experience. If we hire someone out of college, they were Co-ops with the company.
This. People like to knock millennials, but by almost every metric, baby boomers are far more worthless.
I tell people all the time, my grandparents generation suffered through the depression, won the war then built the middle class, then the baby boomers came along and fuxked it all up .
I hired a 10 employee staff for an entry level mostly commission based sales job.
My candidates were either mid 40s and up MBA career journeyman sales people
Or
Kids fresh out of college
I hired a mix. Hoped the experienced folks would help train the young staff and would give us some diversity.
In six months I had let go most of the mba journeyman and replaced them with the other bucket. They were far more driven, intelligent and savvy. The whole thing taught me a lesson. If you are looking for grunt level roles and you’ve been in the workforce for 10+ years you either have a great story (woman w/kids, military, etc), or you just aren’t a good worker.
In two years many of the kids out of college had advanced to other roles in the company or moved on to better roles. I was happy to promote some of them and have them train the next crop.
My candidates were either mid 40s and up MBA career journeyman sales people
Or
Kids fresh out of college
I hired a mix. Hoped the experienced folks would help train the young staff and would give us some diversity.
In six months I had let go most of the mba journeyman and replaced them with the other bucket. They were far more driven, intelligent and savvy. The whole thing taught me a lesson. If you are looking for grunt level roles and you’ve been in the workforce for 10+ years you either have a great story (woman w/kids, military, etc), or you just aren’t a good worker.
In two years many of the kids out of college had advanced to other roles in the company or moved on to better roles. I was happy to promote some of them and have them train the next crop.
No offense, but if you, as a veteran employee, are making the same amount as a new hire, then you're basically past the point of advancement and they don't see you as someone worth investing money in.
That may be a bit harsh, but if you're a significant veteran within the company, you should be at a point where new hires aren't an immediate threat. If they are, you haven't advanced much.
I see it in certain areas/departments. I don't know if that's because of the nature of that department's work or the person in charge of the department.
Just heard yesterday. In 5 years 75% of the workforce will be mellinials. At least at my company.
There’s good and bad from every generation. How you see it depends on your spot and if you have a half full or half empty attitude.
Young people eager to put their stamp on the world will usually work circles around people who have been grinding for 30 years. It's just human nature.
No offense OP but if you want seniority to trump everyrhing you should have chosen a government job.
No offense OP but if you want seniority to trump everyrhing you should have chosen a government job.
Don’t worry....we will all be out of the work force in 5 or so years and you all can support us....
And that is when SS and Medicare will go bankrupt.
Make yourself relevant. Stay current with technology. Embrace change. Volunteer for new projects.
I'm 60. I've been in technology for 35 years and certainly understand your concerns. Yes, I've been disappointed many times in my career but I've continued to grind. Expect disappointments but keep investing in yourself each day.
I've survived 12 layoffs, 2 mergers and 7 acquisitions. In December, my downtown office was closed and 75% of the staff was dismissed. I was retained and now work from home. I've helped my friends/co-workers carry their belongings to their car after a layoff. I've shed many tears over change through the years.
Life is not fair. Do your best and hold your head high. Keep fighting and show everyone your value. It's a daily grind.
Good luck my friends.
Seniority means very little in government jobs. As long as you meet the minimum time in grade you’re good to go. Your performance doesn’t even matter, just your interview score. We have people complain all the time when a younger employee gets a promotion and they don’t, even though they’ve been here 3 times as long.
If your an older employee and not already in mgmt.... then maybe you need to look elsewhere... the writing is on the wall
I see that we bring in a lot of young folks partly because we can’t find experienced people and partly so we can train them like we want them. Some call it brainwash but I’ll be nice.
The end results are very favorable and it doesn’t make sense to some. Hire smart people who are driven and point them in the right direction, tell them what your expectations are, and help them along the way.
The end results are very favorable and it doesn’t make sense to some. Hire smart people who are driven and point them in the right direction, tell them what your expectations are, and help them along the way.
You need to switch jobs if you
Believe you are undervalued. If you believe you are valued then you need to ask for a raise. Before you do either one of these things you need to give yourself an honest evaluation of how good you are at all of the aspects of the jobthat your employer values.
Believe you are undervalued. If you believe you are valued then you need to ask for a raise. Before you do either one of these things you need to give yourself an honest evaluation of how good you are at all of the aspects of the jobthat your employer values.
Now you know what your superiors were gripping about when you were hired. This is as old as dirt.
This is not necessarily true. What also happens is that wage growth in the marketplace outpaces wage growth internally and it has nothing to do with performance. New hires from outside the company often command higher wages than someone with similar qualifications who has been with the company for 10 years. Very few companies grow their pay scales at the same rate as the market over time.
I am a VP of HR and I see this all the time. On the flip side, in critical functions we are proactive about keeping up with the market with our pay. Some of the comments in here make me realize just how special my company is. The culture in some of your companies just stinks.
Old folks just can't cut it in my industry. They aren't willing to do the gruntwork and the hours necessary to be successful.
And, they generally have outdated views on tactics.
And, they generally have outdated views on tactics.
Yes and no.
What the guy was insinuating was that he's a veteran within the company and he's getting passed by new hires. All I'm saying is that if you're still at an entry-level position then you're always at risk to be passed by someone younger and more energetic. I was simply saying that still being at an entry level position is the problem, not necessarily the difference between internal vs external wage increases.
And there's nothing wrong with a company investing more into someone that's younger and liable to be around longer as opposed to someone at the same point in their career but older. That's an easy ROI analysis.
Yeah, that's not my experience. Minority and seniority trumps all.
No offense, but if market pay exceeds what you are willing to pay your existing employees, it is your fault and harming your company. If they can do better somewhere else, your top talent will go elsewhere. We look at the market for all jobs and make adjustments when appropriate. Otherwise, your “veteran” employees will consist only of people who can’t get a better job somewhere else.
WRT the original question, no I do not agree. Our corporate and my personal philosophy is that I am responsible for my own professional development. It is up to me to develop and if I see a job I want, I should go and get it. In fact, that is just what I did. I may have made too many of those moves within a single employer, but it worked out. I averaged about a year and a half in each job with only half of those moves being promotions. When I eventually moved outside the company, I walked away from a promotion and still got a big pay bump. To illustrate my point regarding making sure you keep pace with the market, my old employer obviously didn’t and they are low on the verge of bankruptcy.
I have 34 years experience and am mentoring a promising young engineering supervisor. I don’t teach him anything about how to be an engineer, but I teach him about how to manage people, how to set and measure against goals, and how to get them to embrace the culture.
It’s interesting to me, based on what I remember from similar threads, that so many on here appear to be in tech-related jobs or in some kind of sales. Maybe in those types of jobs/industry, experience isn’t valued as much. The second Friday of every month, I attend a Cal EPA & industry meeting in Sacramento. As you can imagine, this aging workforce issue comes up. My observations from comments by my peers from Shell, Chevron, BNSF, Union Pacific, Pacific Gas & Electric, LA DWP, etc., and Cal EPA agencies are that experience is still valued in these places. Before @Ron Munson jumps in, yes, some of these are regulated monopolies (and oligopolies), so I recognize that the rules are a bit different.
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Wow at new hires making veteran pay, even in a tech company. I am firmly middle to upper management, this year I finally passed salary wise one of my senior managers.
We have senior engineers that make as much as or more than their engineering team leads. The pay is all relative to time in level as well as worth to the company. Not a single 0-5 yr engineer hired in the past 5 yrs makes anything close to one of my senior engineers.
If you are still graded as an entry level employee after 3-5 yrs look for a new career or new company. If it’s longer than that I don’t know what to tell you. Also be aware not all individuals are cut out for management, I have 30 yr old engineering team leads with 70 yr old engineers reporting to them. Guess which of the two are on the management development track. The engineer though makes more than his boss...
We have senior engineers that make as much as or more than their engineering team leads. The pay is all relative to time in level as well as worth to the company. Not a single 0-5 yr engineer hired in the past 5 yrs makes anything close to one of my senior engineers.
If you are still graded as an entry level employee after 3-5 yrs look for a new career or new company. If it’s longer than that I don’t know what to tell you. Also be aware not all individuals are cut out for management, I have 30 yr old engineering team leads with 70 yr old engineers reporting to them. Guess which of the two are on the management development track. The engineer though makes more than his boss...
