OT: Keep an eye on India-Pakistan situation

[Spencer_York]

Mods, feel free to move this to the politics board if you think it is better placed there (but I'll try to keep this as apolitical as possible).

If you haven't seen, there was a terrorist attack in Kashmir (technically the region is known as Jammu and Kashmir) in India yesterday which killed 26 Indian tourists. India is doing a lot of saber-rattling right now and taking aggressive steps towards Pakistan. India is currently blaming Pakistan for financing/support the group (The Resistance Front (TRF)) which claimed responsibility for the attack. As you know, India and Pakistan have deep seated animosity going back to the 1940s and the partition/independence of India from the British Empire. Kashmir has been a main point of contention.

India is taking a number of steps that are highly aggressive:
-Barring Pakistani nationals from entering India
-Closed the Attari border checkpoint
-Suspending the Indus Waters Treaty, which means a huge chunk of Pakistan's water supply will be cut off
-Kicking out Pakistani military advisors
-Withdrawing Indian military advisors from Pakistan
-Deploying soldiers to Kashmir
-Potentially kicking out all Pakistani diplomats

There is a chance that this spills into a hot war, and need I remind you that both nations have nuclear weapons.

I am skeptical that this will be resolved easily. The Anglophone world seems to be ignoring this. The current US administration has significantly scaled down or outright eliminated the South Asia department within the State Department. (I believe in one of the leaked Signal chats the VP showed pretty much 0 interest in this). The Department of Defense is in absolute chaos right now. The president and vice president may not be the most neutral arbiters in this, as they have been friendly with Modi. Modi's party, BJP, is very anti-Muslim and they will be howling for blood. The Director of National Intelligence has strong ties (and maybe was even in) a Hindutva group. Who is going to be a realistic check on this?

Anyway, this is a big deal and has the potential to be an even bigger deal.

 

[UrHuckleberry]

Mods, feel free to move this to the politics board if you think it is better placed there (but I'll try to keep this as apolitical as possible).

If you haven't seen, there was a terrorist attack in Kashmir (technically the region is known as Jammu and Kashmir) in India yesterday which killed 26 Indian tourists. India is doing a lot of saber-rattling right now and taking aggressive steps towards Pakistan. India is currently blaming Pakistan for financing/support the group (The Resistance Front (TRF)) which claimed responsibility for the attack. As you know, India and Pakistan have deep seated animosity going back to the 1940s and the partition/independence of India from the British Empire. Kashmir has been a main point of contention.

India is taking a number of steps that are highly aggressive:
-Barring Pakistani nationals from entering India
-Closed the Attari border checkpoint
-Suspending the Indus Waters Treaty, which means a huge chunk of Pakistan's water supply will be cut off
-Kicking out Pakistani military advisors
-Withdrawing Indian military advisors from Pakistan
-Deploying soldiers to Kashmir
-Potentially kicking out all Pakistani diplomats

There is a chance that this spills into a hot war, and need I remind you that both nations have nuclear weapons.

I am skeptical that this will be resolved easily. The Anglophone world seems to be ignoring this. The current US administration has significantly scaled down or outright eliminated the South Asia department within the State Department. (I believe in one of the leaked Signal chats the VP showed pretty much 0 interest in this). The Department of Defense is in absolute chaos right now. The president and vice president may not be the most neutral arbiters in this, as they have been friendly with Modi. Modi's party, BJP, is very anti-Muslim and they will be howling for blood. The Director of National Intelligence has strong ties (and maybe was even in) a Hindutva group. Who is going to be a realistic check on this?

Anyway, this is a big deal and has the potential to be an even bigger deal.

Would recommend editing some in the second to last paragraph if you want to keep this apolitical. I'm likely with you, but others won't be and will take exception.

 

[Tygur]

Hmm…not good. You’re right — the animosity between these two countries goes back a long time…and I think a lot of it is based on religious beliefs. It’s funny I haven’t seen this on the news at all. Will have to do some googling. Has the potential to start a broader conflict in the area.

Thanks for sharing, OP.

 

[Spencer_York]

Hmm…not good. You’re right — the animosity between these two countries goes back a long time…and I think a lot of it is based on religious beliefs. It’s funny I haven’t seen this on the news at all. Will have to do some googling. Has the potential to start a broader conflict in the area.

Thanks for sharing, OP.

Yeah way too many people are completely ignoring it and it’s potentially the biggest thing going on in international relations right now

 

[TC Tiger]

I am also anti-Muslim. Thanks for posting.

 

[Spencer_York]

Would recommend editing some in the second to last paragraph if you want to keep this apolitical. I'm likely with you, but others won't be and will take exception.

Just describing the state of the field so to speak

 

[Tiger Guru]

I wish I were qualified to give an opinion, but Im not. Im a salesman but I appreciate the info! I'll keep an eye on it.

 

[UrHuckleberry]

Just describing the state of the field so to speak

Oh I hear ya, and was a lot of good information. Just saying you will lose some people and it will spiral, and you won't end up having the conversation you want to have, regardless of the information's accuracy.

 

[SDTiger9]

Would recommend editing some in the second to last paragraph if you want to keep this apolitical. I'm likely with you, but others won't be and will take exception.

This is PHILOSOPHICAL statement, not political.

I think about how adults choose to handle their differences. Some people that get divorced or have a neighborly dispute can literally handle it themselves with little intervention. Then you have the extreme end where you hire high powered attorneys or some big bad 3rd party interventionist comes in to tell everyone how it’s gonna be.

There’s a time and place for all of it yet some people default to the extreme measure because…… POWER.

Again, philosophical …. some people need to work their differences out mainly because they need to know they are capable and have to. And 3rd party interventionists need to pick their battles on where they can actually be effective.

 

[scartiger]

Just seems like the World has been in turmoil for awhile now. Hopefully peace will be the outcome.

 

[SDTiger9]

Just seems like the World has been in turmoil for awhile now. Hopefully peace will be the outcome.

There are 2 ways to make money:
- expansion
- disruption

It takes effort to expand. It’s cheap to disrupt via turmoil because governments spend the people’s money enriching those around the govt ecosystem.

 

[TooterTownTiger]

But they sure can’t party

 

[aks121488]

wasn't there/is there a clash with India/China on the border last year? if so India fighting in multiple fronts doesn't seem good.

 

[CU_4734]

Maybe the conspiracy about Pope Francis being the last is true after all…

 

[Spencer_York]

wasn't there/is there a clash with India/China on the border last year? if so India fighting in multiple fronts doesn't seem good.

Yeah they both claim the same region in the Kashmir area. They fight but it’s only small detachments of soldiers using like sticks and stones (not sure why)

 

[ChucktownK]

wasn't there/is there a clash with India/China on the border last year? if so India fighting in multiple fronts doesn't seem good.

They've both pulled back from some of the belligerent movements on the contested border regions in the Himalayas

 

[TheParadeCoordinator]

Note to original poster, the President of the United States determines the foreign policy of the United States, not the State Department.
Note to India, do not be played by the Communist Chinese.

 

[yoshi121374]

Note to original poster, the President of the United States determines the foreign policy of the United States, not the State Department.
Note to India, do not be played by the Communist Chinese.

The State Department provides information, history, sources of current information to make smart decisions based on best understood information.

The President makes gut choices based on his feelings. I would prefer he have some experts provide him some guidance.

 

[treetiger]

Pakistan, another radicle Muslim country that needs to be wiped off of the face of the earth. I still remember they were hiding bin Laden. The US could not even let them know that they were doing an operation because they knew they would warn bin Laden. It is time that these cesspools of terrorists need to be dealt with, Iran, Pakistan, Yemen, etc. The US should help India with whatever they need.

 

[Spencer_York]

Note to original poster, the President of the United States determines the foreign policy of the United States, not the State Department.
Note to India, do not be played by the Communist Chinese.

The State Department handles a ton of the nitty gritty details of foreign policy and it also has regional experts who provide much needed information and have the contacts in the region

 

[Overwatch]

Well this certainly seems significant. It’s not just diplomats OP.

 

[SDTiger9]

There are 2 ways to make money:
- expansion
- disruption

It takes effort to expand. It’s cheap to disrupt via turmoil because governments spend the people’s money enriching those around the govt ecosystem.

I don’t mean to sound jaded but 5 of the top 10 richest counties in the US reside in MD/VA.

They EXPAND their programs and they certaintly DISRUPT the globe for whatever justification sounds good.

 

[Willence]

Two recurring themes in conflict zones around the world are very easy to see. It would be progress to start calling it like it is.

 

[BionicTiger]

India got attacked by some “NSAs” from Pakistan, and I’m supposed to be hand-wringing over India’s response? LOL.

We will place a phone call. Offer condolences and some resources. And let India handle it. Im not going to downplay this. Any time you have conflict simmering here - especially with the current environment where it is - that is not ideal. I can’t predict the future. There very well could be an event(s) that lights a powder keg between the two. I doubt we see much beyond low level attacks and some movement/posturing, though. I could be wrong. That said, I’m not going to start freaking out over this. India is not our responsibility. They were attacked by (effectively) a country that is no friend of our’s. We will let India handle their business and offer them some intel support for now.

 

[BigPapaWhit]

Woul

India got attacked by some “NSAs” from Pakistan, and I’m supposed to be hand-wringing over India’s response? LOL.

We will place a phone call. Offer condolences and some resources. And let India handle it. Im not going to downplay this. Any time you have conflict simmering here - especially with the current environment where it is - that is not ideal. I can’t predict the future. There very well could be an event(s) that lights a powder keg between the two. I doubt we see much beyond low level attacks and some movement/posturing, though. I could be wrong. That said, I’m not going to start freaking out over this. India is not our responsibility. They were attacked by (effectively) a country that is no friend of our’s. We will let India handle their business and offer them some intel support for now.

Would Russia and China not have more skin in the game in that region? Should we abdicate responsibility to peacekeeping to them there? No snark here just spitballing some quick ideas

 

[UrHuckleberry]

Yeah they both claim the same region in the Kashmir area. They fight but it’s only small detachments of soldiers using like sticks and stones (not sure why)

I’ve heard they can break your bones

 

[BigPapaWhit]

Also, the Round Table should absolutely be the place for this conversation. Not because the conversation is radical (yet). If we want the Round Table conversation to be more robust and the West Zone to be less cluttered why not hold ourselves to a standard. If I can check both forums daily why not everyone else.
Keep sports on West Zone, other stuff to the Round Table.
If more regulars showed up in the round table the conversation would be much better. Believe it or not there has been some good convos out there once people move past the platitudes and hyperbole. Give credit to a few posters on both sides of issues willing to bridge gaps and fine some common ground.

NOW…

 

[tigerrecon]

Mods, feel free to move this to the politics board if you think it is better placed there (but I'll try to keep this as apolitical as possible).

If you haven't seen, there was a terrorist attack in Kashmir (technically the region is known as Jammu and Kashmir) in India yesterday which killed 26 Indian tourists. India is doing a lot of saber-rattling right now and taking aggressive steps towards Pakistan. India is currently blaming Pakistan for financing/support the group (The Resistance Front (TRF)) which claimed responsibility for the attack. As you know, India and Pakistan have deep seated animosity going back to the 1940s and the partition/independence of India from the British Empire. Kashmir has been a main point of contention.

India is taking a number of steps that are highly aggressive:
-Barring Pakistani nationals from entering India
-Closed the Attari border checkpoint
-Suspending the Indus Waters Treaty, which means a huge chunk of Pakistan's water supply will be cut off
-Kicking out Pakistani military advisors
-Withdrawing Indian military advisors from Pakistan
-Deploying soldiers to Kashmir
-Potentially kicking out all Pakistani diplomats

There is a chance that this spills into a hot war, and need I remind you that both nations have nuclear weapons.

I am skeptical that this will be resolved easily. The Anglophone world seems to be ignoring this. The current US administration has significantly scaled down or outright eliminated the South Asia department within the State Department. (I believe in one of the leaked Signal chats the VP showed pretty much 0 interest in this). The Department of Defense is in absolute chaos right now. The president and vice president may not be the most neutral arbiters in this, as they have been friendly with Modi. Modi's party, BJP, is very anti-Muslim and they will be howling for blood. The Director of National Intelligence has strong ties (and maybe was even in) a Hindutva group. Who is going to be a realistic check on this?

Anyway, this is a big deal and has the potential to be an even bigger deal.

Thanks for the info, I had no clue...

 

[tigerman1974]

S!!! Is about to hit the fan folks!! Get ready to Red Dawn it!!

 

[charlestontiger417]

This is PHILOSOPHICAL statement, not political.

I think about how adults choose to handle their differences. Some people that get divorced or have a neighborly dispute can literally handle it themselves with little intervention. Then you have the extreme end where you hire high powered attorneys or some big bad 3rd party interventionist comes in to tell everyone how it’s gonna be.

There’s a time and place for all of it yet some people default to the extreme measure because…… POWER.

Again, philosophical …. some people need to work their differences out mainly because they need to know they are capable and have to. And 3rd party interventionists need to pick their battles on where they can actually be effective.

Spot on.

I did a paper on both countries and Kashmir. These two despise each other and nothing will change it. Surprised they have not had more wars/skirmishes they have.

Both sides having nukes is probably a good thing thanks to MAD (mutual assured destruction).

 

[charlestontiger417]

Woul

Would Russia and China not have more skin in the game in that region? Should we abdicate responsibility to peacekeeping to them there? No snark here just spitballing some quick ideas

India used to be very close with us but they have shown lately to be sleeping around. I could see both China and Russia playing a role here.

 

[BionicTiger]

Woul

Would Russia and China not have more skin in the game in that region? Should we abdicate responsibility to peacekeeping to them there? No snark here just spitballing some quick ideas

China? No…It was a single terrorist attack by - ostensibly - an NSA. Did I miss a kinetic conflict kicking off? What peacekeeping role needs to be filled? We don’t need to rush to everyone’s aid the second there is a terrorist attack. India is capable of handling themselves. I’m sure there is communication. We will provide help where we can.

 

[BigPapaWhit]

It was a single terrorist attack by - ostensibly - an NSA. Did I miss a kinetic conflict kicking off? What peacekeeping role needs to be filled? We don’t need to rush to everyone’s aid the second there is a terrorist attack. India is capable of handling themselves. I’m sure there is communication. We will provide help where we can.

Was not implying as such, sir. Not at all. Big picture was what I was thinking. I am more interested in the Geo-political dynamics between Russia, India, and China. I am less concerned about another OK Corral in the Kashmir region. I am curious on how much energy and/or capital Russia has to spend on Indian affairs with the issues in Europe and in particular Ukraine. I am also curious how China may seek to take advantage of Russia's numerous distractions. There may be nothing to any of this just my over reactive imagination. I also have to wonder what North Korea has to gain by sending manpower to across the Asian Steppe to fight Russian battles.

Again, I have nothing of significance to add to the og topic. I am just fascinated by the delicate balance over in that neck of the woods. I would think it would take something on a bigger scale to provoke anything of substance. Then again I have been wrong about many a thing of much less significance.

 

[Spencer_York]

Two recurring themes in conflict zones around the world are very easy to see. It would be progress to start calling it like it is.

Expansionist autocratic governments without concern for their neighbors? (Russia-Ukraine and India-Kashmir)

Notably there was supposed to be a referendum in Kashmir that never happened and so you get these anti India groups that Pakistan may or may not fund

 

[Spencer_York]

Pakistan, another radicle Muslim country that needs to be wiped off of the face of the earth. I still remember they were hiding bin Laden. The US could not even let them know that they were doing an operation because they knew they would warn bin Laden. It is time that these cesspools of terrorists need to be dealt with, Iran, Pakistan, Yemen, etc. The US should help India with whatever they need.

Yeah that would be very bad. I’m no fan of Pakistan but India is run by a bunch of nut jobs. It is better to de escalate tension between two nuclear powers

 

[Spencer_York]

Woul

Would Russia and China not have more skin in the game in that region? Should we abdicate responsibility to peacekeeping to them there? No snark here just spitballing some quick ideas

No, I don’t think we should. Russia isn’t in a position to influence this but China is and I have a feeling that China would back Pakistan

 

[Spencer_York]

Also, the Round Table should absolutely be the place for this conversation. Not because the conversation is radical (yet). If we want the Round Table conversation to be more robust and the West Zone to be less cluttered why not hold ourselves to a standard. If I can check both forums daily why not everyone else.
Keep sports on West Zone, other stuff to the Round Table.
If more regulars showed up in the round table the conversation would be much better. Believe it or not there has been some good convos out there once people move past the platitudes and hyperbole. Give credit to a few posters on both sides of issues willing to bridge gaps and fine some common ground.

NOW…

Yeah I’m more than fine with this getting moved to the other board. However the thread on the Middle East stuff the other week (ie us moving carrier groups over there) stayed on this board rather than the other one

 

[Spencer_York]

Was not implying as such, sir. Not at all. Big picture was what I was thinking. I am more interested in the Geo-political dynamics between Russia, India, and China. I am less concerned about another OK Corral in the Kashmir region. I am curious on how much energy and/or capital Russia has to spend on Indian affairs with the issues in Europe and in particular Ukraine. I am also curious how China may seek to take advantage of Russia's numerous distractions. There may be nothing to any of this just my over reactive imagination. I also have to wonder what North Korea has to gain by sending manpower to across the Asian Steppe to fight Russian battles.

Again, I have nothing of significance to add to the og topic. I am just fascinated by the delicate balance over in that neck of the woods. I would think it would take something on a bigger scale to provoke anything of substance. Then again I have been wrong about many a thing of much less significance.

I wonder if the NKs were guys who were recruited by PMCs. It seems that was the case with the Chinese nationals captured by Ukraine. The NKs going there and immediately being exposed to internet porn and spending all their time looking at it was a good laugh though

 

[DieHard4Clemson]

wasn't there/is there a clash with India/China on the border last year? if so India fighting in multiple fronts doesn't seem good.

Yeah they both claim the same region in the Kashmir area. They fight but it’s only small detachments of soldiers using like sticks and stones (not sure why)

They have an agreement not to use guns, so as to keep the conflict from escalating. They literally use swords, machetes, and homemade alternative weapons. These are soldiers, not just civilians.

 

[tiger989]

Well this certainly seems significant. It’s not just diplomats OP.

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PM Modi...about to kick arse to Pakis