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appalachiatiger

Woodrush
Jan 7, 2009
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Asheville NC
obviously we are super spoiled with 3 media members who give us detailed information about our beloved Tigers.

now we have a pivotal election coming up and i cant find one news outlet that details the differences in policy ideas from the candidates. cnn, fox, msnbc, abc, cbs, and nbc all seem to have become various versions of the national enquirer.

it would be great to have one nite where they detail the differences-

foregn policy is huge right now, id love to hear more about how-

1- trump: plans to work with russia to disperse isil. for this to work, we have to give up regime change in syria. therefore the pipeline will need a new route.

and

2-clinton: continuation of same policy of arming "moderates". what will she do that will make arming moderates more successful than they have been.

and with her in a personal battle with putin, how is she going to keep us out of war with russia?

thats just one issue. i think this one issue is so important that if we dont spend some time on this it could cost us american lives with a war with russia.

im just tired of the national enquirer type of reporting, its becoming very disheartening.
 
obviously we are super spoiled with 3 media members who give us detailed information about our beloved Tigers.

now we have a pivotal election coming up and i cant find one news outlet that details the differences in policy ideas from the candidates. cnn, fox, msnbc, abc, cbs, and nbc all seem to have become various versions of the national enquirer.

it would be great to have one nite where they detail the differences-

foregn policy is huge right now, id love to hear more about how-

1- trump: plans to work with russia to disperse isil. for this to work, we have to give up regime change in syria. therefore the pipeline will need a new route.

and

2-clinton: continuation of same policy of arming "moderates". what will she do that will make arming moderates more successful than they have been.

and with her in a personal battle with putin, how is she going to keep us out of war with russia?

thats just one issue. i think this one issue is so important that if we dont spend some time on this it could cost us american lives with a war with russia.

im just tired of the national enquirer type of reporting, its becoming very disheartening.

The lib media will tell you what they want you to know. Truth has no place in our country any longer.
 
So now we should be buddy buddy with the country that invaded Georgia, Ukraine and is supporting the Iran regime? WTF?
Russia is a democracy in name only.
 
So now we should be buddy buddy with the country that invaded Georgia, Ukraine and is supporting the Iran regime? WTF?
Russia is a democracy in name only.

georgia and ukraine are mute points.

heck the ukraine issue is the main point behind the russians possibly being the ones who gave the info to wikileaks.

i would say the iran deal that we signed and the cash we gave them make us just as bad with iran.

we need to work with russia. we have alot more in common with russia than we do the middle east.

if hillary is elected, war with russia is almost inevitable. just dnt understand why people dont dig deeper in these issues.

if you study georgia, ukraine, iran, libya, syria, afghanistan, iraq, china, and north korea-

how in the world could you vote for hillary and think she could make things better or at least maintain the status quo.

and if she wins, she will be tied up in legal battles for all 4 years. those wikileak documents reveal some serious issues for our government.
 
heck this mornings ng they are bitching about trumps money he puts into his campaign in relation to hillary.

they showed a graphic for october to date, clinton like 50,000 thousand and trump like 30,000 thousand

like whoopee doo, who cares. lets talk substance.

and they showed a graphic that she has raised "half a billion dollars" for a job that will pay her about a million.
 
The Dems with Hillary as the candidate are big on "repealing citizens united" when the truth is they are benefiting from the money coming form foreign sources
with George Soros the main person but millions if not billions are pouring into the USA to further a global agenda and NOT an American agenda.
 
The Dems with Hillary as the candidate are big on "repealing citizens united" when the truth is they are benefiting from the money coming form foreign sources
with George Soros the main person but millions if not billions are pouring into the USA to further a global agenda and NOT an American agenda.

yes, many conservatives and liberals, and republicans and democrats support a one world govt with no borders.

powers go to the ICJ, UN, and world Bank. no borders, one currency, all your data is stored globally.

might be a good thing. who knows. the top 1% want this. they want to untied the world under one flag with no borders.

they would make alot more money and completely control the resources of the planet.

but ive always sided with keeping power confederated v consolidated.

just look at wells fargo, bank of america, goldman sachs. everyone has corruption tendencies if it will benefit your family. thats just human nature. its not a bad thing. but we need to make sure steps are are taken to keep this from happening.

why do you think they are taking the wealth of the united states and spreading it around the world instead of giving it to american citizens?
 
georgia and ukraine are mute points.

heck the ukraine issue is the main point behind the russians possibly being the ones who gave the info to wikileaks.

i would say the iran deal that we signed and the cash we gave them make us just as bad with iran.

we need to work with russia. we have alot more in common with russia than we do the middle east.

if hillary is elected, war with russia is almost inevitable. just dnt understand why people dont dig deeper in these issues.

if you study georgia, ukraine, iran, libya, syria, afghanistan, iraq, china, and north korea-

how in the world could you vote for hillary and think she could make things better or at least maintain the status quo.

and if she wins, she will be tied up in legal battles for all 4 years. those wikileak documents reveal some serious issues for our government.

Mute points are tough to make.....

Russia wants Trump elected no doubt. I can make an educated guess why.

We've been fighting a proxy war with Russia in the middle east for decades. Collectively, we are totally responsible for the current situation in that region. We bombed away their democracies and put puppets in place. If we were to just roll over and show our belly to Russia and give them what they wanted, they would want more. Welcome to actual international policy. They want more, and will try to raise an empire if shown any weakness. Their nationalism is extreme if you talk to any of their citizens or even EX-PATS. Its a naive belief to think just because Russians are 'white' they are like us and we have more in common with them. They are about 10 years away from being a full on Communist country again. If they are allowed to have the oil in the middle east it will definitely happen. Russia wants to expand its power. That's not good for us, no matter what Trump says.

Trump displays he understands none of this. If you want to talk about foreign policy and Trumps takes on it. Just google economists views on his tariff proposals or his defense proposals. He loses on those plans big time. Thats why he and Pence kept disagreeing.


Take a look at Richard Clarke's opinion article on the situation. http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/...nemies-influencing-election-article-1.2725718

If you don't know who Clarke is, look him up. He's qualified to give his opinion.
 
but its fox too. both sides. these reporters have gotten super lazy. and i guess the voters enjoy a soap opera more than substance.
Out of all of them, Fox is more Right...but still.....

The Muslim just changed a 30+ year old WH policy of FOI. Why? Because Assange released emails that show he lied about the knowledge of the unholy bitch's server. Why no news?

Videos proving the unholy bitch and DNC behind all violence at Trump rallies. Why no news?

Proof of voter fraud by the DNC reaching back to 2010. Why no news?

Proof that the Bhengazi deaths and lack of added security that would have saved those lies were politically motivated. Why no news?

Proof that the Clinton's new found wealth was stolen from the Clinton Foundation which was funded by Middle Eastern and special interest concerns that ultimately were paid back when she was Head of State. Why no news?

I can go on and on. The Lib lemmings don't/won't believe the truth. Why? In fvcking credible.
 
Mute points are tough to make.....

Russia wants Trump elected no doubt. I can make an educated guess why.

We've been fighting a proxy war with Russia in the middle east for decades. Collectively, we are totally responsible for the current situation in that region. We bombed away their democracies and put puppets in place. If we were to just roll over and show our belly to Russia and give them what they wanted, they would want more. Welcome to actual international policy. They want more, and will try to raise an empire if shown any weakness. Their nationalism is extreme if you talk to any of their citizens or even EX-PATS. Its a naive belief to think just because Russians are 'white' they are like us and we have more in common with them. They are about 10 years away from being a full on Communist country again. If they are allowed to have the oil in the middle east it will definitely happen. Russia wants to expand its power. That's not good for us, no matter what Trump says.

Trump displays he understands none of this. If you want to talk about foreign policy and Trumps takes on it. Just google economists views on his tariff proposals or his defense proposals. He loses on those plans big time. Thats why he and Pence kept disagreeing.


Take a look at Richard Clarke's opinion article on the situation. http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/...nemies-influencing-election-article-1.2725718

If you don't know who Clarke is, look him up. He's qualified to give his opinion.


good article

i like clarke, have read alot of his stuff.

catch is, no one wants the war in the middle east to end.

as long as the participants are getting oil and they can sell arms, they will protect the status quo.

trump doesnt care about selling arms in the middle east. he profits on his own.

clintons will use the white house to continue making profits off arm sales.
 
He is an idiot.

lol

wouldnt call a billionaire an idiot. he just doesnt give a shit what he says or what people think about him.

now he has too and he hasnt adjusted.

but he isnt an idiot, but i agree, he aint smart enough to see by pretending to be presidential would get him boat raced into office
 
Trump is far from an idiot. Stubborn yes, idiot, absolutely not. Media has hurt him as much as anything. So biased. Do not understand how anyone who is truly a Republican, would not vote for him and vote for Hillary under the pretense they just don't like Trump. What's to like about that lying beeatch? She's a disgrace. And hate for someone to say he's not really a Republican. That's the platform he's running on. Why not set your personal opinion of Trump aside, and vote for the direction this country needs to head?
 
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Just saw on the news the FBI is going to reopen the email investigation.
 
hillary getting ready to speak in iowa.

she cant say a word legally if she is smart.

same with trump on his taxes.

i could care less what trumps taxes say.
 
just listening to that woman irritates me.

she talks about how horrible a man he is talking shit about people while she is talking shit about him.

then says she is taking the high ground lol
 
how does taxing the shit out of rich people (corporations) create jobs.

take money from job creators then do what with the money?

create more govt jobs? thats the last thing we should do.
 
and the worse part her attacking him on his womanizing.

her husband was exactly the same.

makes no sense.


That's what pisses me off; that she has the unmitigated gall to accuse Trump of anything where women are concerned with that skirt chaser she's married to. Such a hypocrite. Maybe there will be some fireworks with the emails 11 days before the election. Won't get near the media coverage it should.
 
That's what pisses me off; that she has the unmitigated gall to accuse Trump of anything where women are concerned with that skirt chaser she's married to. Such a hypocrite. Maybe there will be some fireworks with the emails 11 days before the election. Won't get near the media coverage it should.

u got that right.

its like charles manson talking smack about jeffrey dahmer lol
 
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That's what pisses me off; that she has the unmitigated gall to accuse Trump of anything where women are concerned with that skirt chaser she's married to. Such a hypocrite. Maybe there will be some fireworks with the emails 11 days before the election. Won't get near the media coverage it should.
Amy,
Don't know if you read this, but you might find it interesting. - Mrs. Shove

http://www.mostdamagingwikileaks.com/
 
blpix.gif

Hillary Clinton Futures Trades Detailed

By Charles R. Babcock
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, May 27, 1994; Page A01

Hillary Rodham Clinton was allowed to order 10 cattle futures contracts, normally a $12,000 investment, in her first commodity trade in 1978 although she had only $1,000 in her account at the time, according to trade records the White House released yesterday.

The computerized records of her trades, which the White House obtained from the Chicago Mercantile Exchange, show for the first time how she was able to turn her initial investment into $6,300 overnight. In about 10 months of trading, she made nearly $100,000, relying heavily on advice from her friend James B. Blair, an experienced futures trader.

The new records also raise the possibility that some of her profits -- as much as $40,000 – came from larger trades ordered by someone else and then shifted to her account, Leo Melamed, a former chairman of the Merc who reviewed the records for the White House, said in an interview. He said the discrepancies in Clinton's records also could have been caused by human error.

Even allocated trades would not necessarily have benefited Clinton, Melamed added. "I have no reason to change my original assessment. Mrs. Clinton violated no rules in the course of her transactions," he said.

Lisa Caputo, Clinton's spokeswoman, said the documents were released yesterday "to give as complete a picture as possible" of her trades. She said Clinton had never before seen them.

Blair, who urged Clinton to enter the high-risk futures market and ordered most of her trades, said in a recent interview that he "talked her into" her first futures trade in October 1978 before paperwork on her account was completed. It was liquidated quickly, he recalled, because "it was bigger than she wanted and required more money."

A close examination of her individual trades underscores Blair's pivotal role. It also shows that Robert L. "Red" Bone, who ran the Springdale, Ark., office of Ray E. Friedman and Co. (Refco), allowed Clinton to initiate and maintain many trading positions – besides the first – when she did not have enough money in her account to cover them.

Why would Bone do so? Bone could not be reached for comment, but Blair said he thought he knew why. "I was a very good customer," he said, noting he paid Bone $800,000 in commissions over the years. "They weren't going to hassle me. If I brought them somebody, they weren't going to hassle them."

Besides, he added, Bone would not worry if he agreed with his clients' bet on which way the price of a given contract would go.

Blair, who at the time was outside counsel to Tyson Foods Inc., Arkansas' largest employer, says he was advising Clinton out of friendship, not to seek political gain for his state-regulated client. At the time of many of the trades, Bill Clinton was governor.

Hillary Clinton has said she made all the trading decisions herself and has tried to play down Blair's role. But she acknowledged in April, three weeks after her trades were first disclosed, that Blair actually placed most of the trades.

Blair advised Clinton again on July 17, 1979. He recalled that she started that trading day by losing $26,460 on 10 cattle contracts she had held for more than a month, by far her worst loss as a futures player. On his recommendation, he said, she immediately went back into the market. She acquired 50 new cattle contracts – worth $1.4 million -- and when the price moved in her favor, unloaded them around noon for a quick gain of $10,550. This recouped part of her loss.

Blair said Clinton and other friends he suggested trades for had lost money that spring on feeder cattle. Those trades "caused everyone some grief," he said. "I'm sure I was pressing to get everyone back above water" in recommending the quick and bold day trade.

The White House defense of Hillary Clinton's preferential treatment was that other customers in the same office also were allowed to trade without having enough cash in their accounts.

While Clinton's account was wildly successful to an outsider, it was small compared to what others were making in the cattle futures market in the 1978-79 period. An investigation of the cattle futures market at that time by Rep. Neal Smith (D-Iowa) found that in one 16-month period 32 traders made more than $110 million in profits from large trades -- those of 50 contracts or more. Clinton traded positions of 50 or more contracts only three times.

The records the White House released yesterday were part of an investigative file from 1979, when the exchange charged Bone and Refco with violations of its record keeping and margin requirement rules. Bone was suspended for three years; Refco paid a $250,000 fine, then the largest in the exchange's history. Internal memos from that investigation cover transactions from the same period in June in which Clinton was trading, but not the same trades. In one instance, the Merc found Bone and a fellow broker were ordering 1,000 cattle contracts at a time – far over the limit allowed at the time – and then allocating them to other customers.

One internal Merc memo said "there is reason to believe" that a majority of Bone's accounts were traded without the clients' permission. Blair said that Bone at times traded his personal account without permission.

Blair said he doubted Bone traded Clinton's account without her permission.

Melamed said it was "impossible" to determine the exact cause for the discrepancies between the Merc computer record of Clinton's trades and the trading records she received from Refco, which the White House released earlier.

She said that for six trades, her initial trading position in the Refco records were not reflected in the Merc documents. On one other trade neither her purchase nor sale was included. On that trade she netted $12,150 on 15 cattle contracts she held for four days.

Clinton reported a loss of $2,480 on one of the trades in question, Melamed noted.

One was a "day trade" on hog contracts that netted $2,553. Melamed said "day trades" are the only way to assure profit even if favorable trading positions are allocated to a customer's account. Any position held overnight would be subject to the rise and fall in prices in the volatile futures market, he added.

Staff researcher Barbara J. Saffir contributed to this report.

In commodities futures trading, an account that falls below the "maintenance margin" typically triggers a "margin call," where the trader must put up sufficient cash to cover the contracts. Although Hillary Rodham Clinton's account was under-margined for nearly all of July 1979, no margin calls were made, no additional cash was put up, and she eventually reaped a $60,000 profit.

June 29 ......... $56,466 (Margin: Value account should have had to continue trading.)

July 12 ........ -$24,243

July 17 ......... $22,537 (Account value: Total cash on hand plus (or minus) paper value of contracts.)

July 20 ......... $61,537

July 23, 1979: She withdrew $60,000 and never traded again, closing the account in October.





© Copyright 1997 The Washington Post Company
 
Out of all of them, Fox is more Right...but still.....

The Muslim just changed a 30+ year old WH policy of FOI. Why? Because Assange released emails that show he lied about the knowledge of the unholy bitch's server. Why no news?

Videos proving the unholy bitch and DNC behind all violence at Trump rallies. Why no news?

Proof of voter fraud by the DNC reaching back to 2010. Why no news?

Proof that the Bhengazi deaths and lack of added security that would have saved those lies were politically motivated. Why no news?

Proof that the Clinton's new found wealth was stolen from the Clinton Foundation which was funded by Middle Eastern and special interest concerns that ultimately were paid back when she was Head of State. Why no news?

I can go on and on. The Lib lemmings don't/won't believe the truth. Why? In fvcking credible.


hey @tigerGUY

check this out-

Bill Clinton's Epic Double-Cross: How "Not An Inch" Brought NATO To Russia's Border
American foreign policy is mindlessly driven by the machinery of our Warfare State---a vast accretion of economic, diplomatic, spying and military capabilities which are ceaselessly in search of missions and justifications for their colossal call on the nation's resources. If you don't believe that just read Ray McGovern's succinct summary below of the US's epic double-cross of Russia on NATO.

It began as a pledge by the first Bush Administration to Gorbachev that in return for German unification and liberation of the "captive nations" there would be "not an inch" of NATO expansion. It ended up its opposite, and for no plausible reason of American security whatsoever. In fact, NATO went on to draft nearly the entire former "Warsaw Pact", expanding its membership by 12 nations. So doing, it encroached thousands of kilometers from its old Cold War boundaries to the very doorstep of Russia.

So what was the grand logic by which the safety and security of the good folks living in Bangor ME, Lincoln NE and Spokane WA would be enhanced by the addition of Albania, Bulgaria, Croatia, Latvia, Slovakia and Slovenia, among others, to our military shield against, well, no identifiable industrial state enemy? In Dustin Hoffman's epigrammatic style, it was fear of one word: Wimp!

That's right. Bill Clinton came to Washington fresh from wandering the Ozarks for 20 years after his stint as a Rhodes Scholar---and with no clue about the post-cold war world which had suddenly emerged after the fall of the Berlin wall. Accordingly, he was a sitting duck for catcalls from neocon Republicans and spurious platitudes from the national security bureaucracy about "nation-building" and America's post-war role as the "indispensable" keeper of the peace.

So as McGovern explains, Clinton just unilaterally cast aside the solemn pledges to freeze NATO at its existing borders that had been made by President Bush and Secretary Baker. In making these pledges the latter represented a world-wise generation that had experienced the long, costly, perilous cold war twilight and had recognized the profound opportunity for a fresh start that had fallen upon the world when the Soviet Union disintegrated.

By contrast, Clinton didn't want to face re-election against the hawkish Bob Dole and be stuck with the foreign policy "wimp" tag:

From the campaign trail on Oct. 22, 1996, two weeks before he defeated Bob Dole for a second term as president, Bill Clinton used NATO enlargement to advertise his assertiveness in foreign policy and America’s status as the “world’s indispensable nation.” Clinton bragged about proposing NATO enlargement at his first NATO summit in 1994, saying it “should enlarge steadily, deliberately, openly.” He never explained why.

The startling thing in hindsight is that many of America's most respected and experienced cold war thinkers saw the absolute folly of NATO expansion long before a single former member of the Soviet bloc had been added. The father of the "containment" doctrine and the original instigator of Truman's excessively and unfortunately aggressive anti-Soviet policy, George Kennan, had no doubt about the distilled lessons of half a century:

Clinton made what quintessential Russian specialist Ambassador George Kennan called a “fateful error.” Writing in the New York Times on Feb. 5, 1997, Kennan asserted: “Expanding NATO would be the most fateful error of American policy in the entire post-cold-war era.”

“Such a decision may be expected to inflame the nationalistic, anti-Western and militaristic tendencies in Russian opinion; to have an adverse effect on the development of Russian democracy; to restore the atmosphere of the cold war to East-West relations, and to impel Russian foreign policy in directions decidedly not to our liking.”

Needless to say, Kennan could not have been more clairvoyant. Yet wisdom and analysis were impotent in the face of the inexorable drive of the Warfare State to perpetuate itself. Indeed, once the process of NATO expansion was set in motion by Clinton's feckless campaign sloganeering, it took on the aura of United Way membership drive: Any nation east of the old cold war boundaries that had a flag and a couple of generals was fair game.

This mindless drive was eventually extended by George W.Bush's neocon warmongers to encompass former constituent parts of the Soviet Union itself, including Stalin's home province of Georgia and Khrushchev's homeland in the Ukraine. The Warfare State machinery-minders in the beltway did not get the irony, nor did they heed the dire warnings from saner heads inside the national security bureaucracy itself.

The US ambassador to Moscow in 2008, William Burns, a pedigreed member of the War Party and current Under-Secretary of State, left nothing to the imagination in a dispatch prior to the fateful Bucharest summit in July 2008 in which NATO announced that Georgia and the Ukraine were being invited to join a military alliance against an unspecified enemy:

...we have the text of a State Department cable dated Feb. 1, 2008, from the U.S. Embassy in Moscow bearing the unusual title: “NYET MEANS NYET: RUSSIA’S NATO ENLARGEMENT REDLINES.”

As it turned out, Burn's cable was just as clairvoyant as Kennan's warning a decade earlier. He foresaw Ukrainian upheaval and civil war along almost the precise vectors which are unfolding today:

“Summary. Following a muted first reaction to Ukraine’s intent to seek a NATO membership action plan at the [upcoming] Bucharest summit, Foreign Minister Lavrov and other senior officials have reiterated strong opposition, stressing that Russia would view further eastward expansion as a potential military threat. NATO enlargement, particularly to Ukraine, remains ‘an emotional and neuralgic’ issue for Russia, but strategic policy considerations also underlie strong opposition to NATO membership for Ukraine and Georgia.

“In Ukraine, these include fears that the issue could potentially split the country in two, leading to violence or even, some claim, civil war, which would force Russia to decide whether to intervene.”

That was written in early 2008, not mid-February of this year. Some future historian will doubtless wonder, therefore, about the next events in this baleful evolution. After all, six months later the "peace" candidate did win!

No matter. Barrack Obama quickly performed the beltway pivot and soon populated his government with leading lights of the War Party including Robert Gates and Hillary Clinton.

The rest is history. Not only was the utterly pointless expansion of NATO never re-considered, its aggressive encroachment on Russia's borders was actually intensified by the current administration.

There is an underlying lesson here. It matters not a wit what candidates for President say about foreign policy or America's role in the world. So long as the current massive Warfare State machinery is left in place, and fed by upwards of $900 billion per year in fiscal rations, it will determine policy, not the voters and not the officials they elect.

So the only platform that would make any difference in the future is the "dismantlement platform". That is, a campaign to: withdraw from NATO and liquidate it; shutdown entirely obsolete institutions like Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, the National Endowment for Democracy and the military and civilian aid bureaucracies; drastically curtail the NSA/CIA/DIA/spy state apparatus; and, of course, drastically demobilize and defund the Pentagon's machinery of power projection and wars of invasion and occupation.

Absent a dismantlement of the Warfare State machinery, giant policy errors like the Bill Clinton's double-cross on NATO and Obama's foolish present confrontation with Putin are nearly guaranteed to recur.

By Ray McGovern

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov used Wednesday’s interview with Bloomberg News to address the overriding issue regarding the future of Ukraine, at least from Moscow’s perspective. Speaking in fluent English, he said Russia would be “categorically against” Ukraine joining NATO.

Lavrov said he welcomed the interviewer’s question regarding whether Ukraine can be part of NATO, recognizing it as a chance to shoehorn background information into the interview. It was an opportunity to explain Moscow’s position to a wide English-speaking international audience – first and foremost Americans. His comments seemed partly aimed at those so malnourished on “mainstream media” that they might be learning the history of NATO enlargement for the first time. Lavrov said:

“In my view, it all started … back in the 1990s, when in spite of all the pronouncements about how the Cold War was over and that there should be no winners – yet, NATO looked upon itself as a winner.”

Lavrov said U.S. and NATO reneged on a series of commitments: not to enlarge the Alliance; then (after NATO was expanded contrary to that commitment), not to deploy substantial forces on the territories of new NATO members; and then not to move NATO infrastructure to the Russian border.

“All these commitments have been, to one degree or another, violated,” said Lavrov, adding that “attempts to draw Ukraine into NATO would have a negative impact on the entire system of European security.” Lavrov said Russia’s national security interests and 25 years of recent history make this a key problem, not only for Ukraine and NATO, but also “an issue of Russia.”

Is Lavrov distorting the history? The answer is important – the more so inasmuch as the information needed to form cogent judgments is rarely found in the U.S. “mainstream media.” What happened in the months immediately before and after the fall of the Berlin Wall on Nov. 9/10, 1989, is key to understanding Russia’s attitude now.

No Dancing

To his credit, President George H. W. Bush sent a reassuring message to the Soviets, saying, “I will not dance on the Berlin wall.” And just three weeks after it fell, Bush flew to Malta for a two-day summit with Gorbachev.

At a joint press conference on Dec. 3, 1989, Gorbachev said, “We are at the beginning of a long road to a lasting, peaceful era. The threat of force, mistrust, psychological and ideological struggle should all be things of the past.”

In the same vein, Bush spoke of a new future just begun “right here in Malta” – one of lasting peace and enduring East-West cooperation. This came just six months after Bush had publicly called in a major speech in Mainz, West Germany, for “a Europe whole and free.” At the time it did not seem one had to be Pollyanna to hope that flesh could be pinned to the bones of that rhetoric.

According to Jack Matlock, then-U.S. ambassador to the U.S.S.R. who took part in the Malta summit, the most basic agreement involved (1) Gorbachev’s pledge not to use force in Eastern Europe where the Russians had 24 divisions (some 350,000 troops) in East Germany alone, and (2) Bush’s promise not to “take advantage” of a Soviet withdrawal from Eastern Europe.

In early February 1990, Bush sent Secretary of State James Baker to work out the all-important details directly with Gorbachev and Foreign Minister Eduard Shevardnadze. Ambassador Matlock again was there and took careful notes on the negotiations, which focused on German reunification.

From memory, Matlock told me that Baker tried to convince Gorbachev that it was in Moscow’s interest to let a united Germany remain in NATO. Matlock recalled that Baker began his argument saying something like, “Assuming there is no expansion of NATO jurisdiction to the East, not one inch,what would you prefer, a Germany embedded in NATO, or one that can go independently in any direction it chooses.” [emphasis added]

The implication was that Germany might just opt to acquire nuclear weapons, were it not anchored in NATO. Gorbachev answered that he took Baker’s argument seriously, and wasted little time in agreeing to the deal.

Ambassador Matlock, one of the most widely respected experts on Russia, told me “the language used was absolute, and the entire negotiation was in the framework of a general agreement that there would be no use of force by the Soviets and no ‘taking advantage’ by the U.S.”

He added, “I don’t see how anybody could view the subsequent expansion of NATO as anything but ‘taking advantage,’ particularly since, by then, the U.S.S.R. was no more and Russia was hardly a credible threat.”

In his book Superpower Illusions, Matlock wrote that NATO enlargement was a function of U.S. domestic politics not of foreign policy strategic thinking. It seems he got that right, too.

Tough Guy Clinton

From the campaign trail on Oct. 22, 1996, two weeks before he defeated Bob Dole for a second term as president, Bill Clinton used NATO enlargement to advertise his assertiveness in foreign policy and America’s status as the “world’s indispensable nation.” Clinton bragged about proposing NATO enlargement at his first NATO summit in 1994, saying it “should enlarge steadily, deliberately, openly.” He never explained why.

President Clinton, thus, reneged on the pledges made by Baker to Gorbachev and Shevardnadze. Clinton lamely called upon Russia to view NATO’s enlargement as an arrangement that will “advance the security of everyone.”

Clinton’s tough-guy-ism toward Russia was, in part, a response to even more aggressive NATO plans from Clinton’s Republican opponent Bob Dole, who had been calling for incorporating Poland, the Czech Republic and Hungary as full members of NATO and had accused Clinton of “dragging his feet” on this. Clinton was not about to be out-toughed.

Those three countries joined NATO in 1999, starting a trend. By April 2009, nine more countries became members, bringing the post-Cold War additions to 12 – equal to the number of the original 12 NATO states.

Clinton made what quintessential Russian specialist Ambassador George Kennan called a “fateful error.” Writing in the New York Times on Feb. 5, 1997, Kennan asserted: “Expanding NATO would be the most fateful error of American policy in the entire post-cold-war era.”

“Such a decision may be expected to inflame the nationalistic, anti-Western and militaristic tendencies in Russian opinion; to have an adverse effect on the development of Russian democracy; to restore the atmosphere of the cold war to East-West relations, and to impel Russian foreign policy in directions decidedly not to our liking.”

If you are the “sole indispensable” country in the world, though, you are sorely tempted not to heed the worrywarts.

Seeds of a Crisis

On Wednesday, Lavrov said the seeds of the current Ukraine crisis were sown in April 2008 during the NATO summit in Bucharest when NATO leaders stated in a declaration that “Georgia and Ukraine will be in NATO.”

Were Lavrov not the consummate diplomat, he might have also told his interviewer that, two months before the Bucharest summit, he had warned U.S. Ambassador to Russia William J. Burns to anticipate a strong Russian reaction to including Ukraine and Georgia in NATO. But diplomats don’t generally permit themselves an “I told you so.”

Thanks to Pvt. Chelsea (formerly Bradley) Manning and WikiLeaks, we have the text of a State Department cable dated Feb. 1, 2008, from the U.S. Embassy in Moscow bearing the unusual title: “NYET MEANS NYET: RUSSIA’S NATO ENLARGEMENT REDLINES.”

The IMMEDIATE precedence that the cable bears shows that Ambassador Burns (now Deputy Secretary of State) was addressing a priority issue under active consideration in Washington. Though it was six years ago, Burns interlocutor was the same Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov. Here is Burns’s introductory summary of his discussions with Lavrov:

“Summary. Following a muted first reaction to Ukraine’s intent to seek a NATO membership action plan at the [upcoming] Bucharest summit, Foreign Minister Lavrov and other senior officials have reiterated strong opposition, stressing that Russia would view further eastward expansion as a potential military threat. NATO enlargement, particularly to Ukraine, remains ‘an emotional and neuralgic’ issue for Russia, but strategic policy considerations also underlie strong opposition to NATO membership for Ukraine and Georgia.

“In Ukraine, these include fears that the issue could potentially split the country in two, leading to violence or even, some claim, civil war, which would force Russia to decide whether to intervene.”

Ambassador Burns continued: “Russia has made it clear that it would have to ‘seriously review’ its entire relationship with Ukraine and Georgia in the event of NATO inviting them to join. This could include major impacts on energy, economic, and political-military engagement, with possible repercussions throughout the region and into Central and Western Europe.”

Burns’s closing comment: “Russia’s opposition to NATO membership for Ukraine and Georgia is both emotional and based on perceived strategic concerns about the impact on Russia’s interest in the region. … While Russian opposition to the first round of NATO enlargement in the mid-1990s was strong, Russia now feels itself able to respond more forcefully to what it perceives as actions contrary to its national interests.”

We don’t know whether Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice read Burns’s prescient remarks, but Lavrov’s warning clearly fell on deaf ears. On April 3, 2008, the NATO summit in Bucharest issued a formal declaration that “NATO welcomes Ukraine’s and Georgia’s Euro-Atlantic aspirations for membership in NATO. We agreed today that these countries will become members of NATO.”

Now, with events quickly spinning out of control in Ukraine, some policymakers need to tell President Obama that there can be even bigger trouble ahead, if Russia’s national security interests are not taken into account.

Ray McGovern works with Tell the Word, a publishing arm of the ecumenical Church of the Saviour in inner-city Washington. He came to Washington over 50 years ago and worked as a CIA analyst under seven Presidents, one less than Gates. Ray now serves on the Steering Group of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS).
 
Amy,
Don't know if you read this, but you might find it interesting. - Mrs. Shove

http://www.mostdamagingwikileaks.com/

The proverbial shit is starting to hit the fan BIG TIME. Screw opening the FBI email investigation again...which shows Obama knew about the server and used a false name and sent emails to Clinton...the real HORROR SHOW is the Clinton's using their CHARITY to get rich. This is getting real now people. Evil, evil, evil. I'm sure there are Libs that see stealingf, lying, corruption to gain office is OK.
 
@tigerGUY

why i think its important we change our middle east policy--

Pro-Iranian Shiites ready to lead Mosul operation
1.jpg
The US-led coalition offensive for liberating Mosul from ISIS suffered two ominous downturns on its 10th day

Friday, Oct. 28, debkafile’s military sources report. One: Pro-Iranian Iraqi Shiites stand ready to assume a lead role, sparking the threat of sectarian violence in the mainly Sunni city; and, two, the Islamic State is poised to launch surface missiles with a range of 500km against Baghdad, as well as Jordan and Israel.

Friday, a spokesman for the Iraqi Shiite paramilitary groups the Bader Brigades and the Population Mobilization Force announced that their advance toward the Islamic State-held town of Tal Afar, about 55 km west of Mosul, was imminent.

These militias are fighting under the command of the Iranian Al Qods chief, Gen. Qasem Soleimani, who takes his orders from Tehran.

The capture of Tal Afar - a mix of Sunni and Shiite ethnic Turkmen until the Islamic State's takeover two years ago - would cut off ISIS-held Mosul from Syria.

Turkey, Iraq’s northern neighbor, and the Kurds are seriously alarmed by the Shiite groups’ initiative.

The Shiites, who are not part of the main coalition fighting body preparing to storm Mosul, are about to strike ISIS from the north.
debkafile’s military sources note that coalition commanders erred by not taking Tal Afar in the early stage of the Mosul offensive and so blocking ISIS supply lines.

The offensive was hobbled two days day earlier by the Kurdish decision to withdraw Peshmerga fighters from the operation to retake Mosul. President Masoud Barzani of the autonomous Kurdish Regional Government stated Wednesday, Oct. 26, that his army had ended its role in the warfare, after cleansing dozens of mostly uninhabited villages on the road to Mosul, and did not intend to enter the city at this time.

This decision by the KRG in Irbil was not published.
Since the Kurds and the Shiite militias are out of it, who is left to finish the job and go into Mosul?

The mission which started out as a grand coalition enterprise has been left now to US forces and the Iraqi army.

However, Iraq’s elite 9th Golden Division and its federal anti-terror police unit have not made much headway in their advance against ISIS forces east of Mosul. Their commanders now warn the government in Baghdad that they can’t go any further without reinforcements.
But there are no Iraqi military reserves to draw on, without stripping any more main Iraqi towns of their defenses and laying them open to Islamists assaults, like those ISIS staged successfully last week on the oil city of Kirkuk, the Kurdish town of Sinjar and Rutba near the Jordanian border.
The long and short of it is that the Mosul offensive has virtually ground to a halt.

ISIS meanwhile is compounding its atrocities and gearing up for escalation.
1. The UN Human Rights agency reported Friday that, since the Mosul offensive began on Oct. 17, Islamic State forces in Iraq have abducted tens of thousands of men, women and children from areas around Mosul and are using them as "human shields" in the city as Iraqi government troops advance.

They shot dead at least 232 people on Wednesday, including 190 former Iraqi troops and 42 civilians when they refused to obey their orders.

2. ISIS has plans to use chemical weapons against the coalition forces advancing any further towards Mosul.

3. Following their raids on key Iraqi cities, the Islamist State is preparing to launch surface missiles against Baghdad.

4. ISIS may not confine its missile attacks to targets in Iraq. Our military sources report that the jihadists have laid hands on Syrian and Iraqi ground-to-ground missiles with a range of 500km and are holding them ready for attacks on Iraq’s neighbors, which could be Jordan. Israel too is in their sights.
 
The Muslim Obama has set up Iran for nukes...paid the cocksuckers over $400M cash for hostages(POS pussy) with a total of over $1.5B in aid. Why? Obama cares more for the Muslim nations than America. Hey Libs that SYH...what part of this is wrong? Not a GD thing.
 
The Muslim Obama has set up Iran for nukes...paid the cocksuckers over $400M cash for hostages(POS pussy) with a total of over $1.5B in aid. Why? Obama cares more for the Muslim nations than America. Hey Libs that SYH...what part of this is wrong? Not a GD thing.

them rounding up and killing civilians is because that we told them when where and how we were going to attack them.

great idea. people think trump is an idiot, but on the really acute, he is spot on.

no one is even thinking that the element of surprise is important.
 
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