OT: Plumbing Question

[jroller]

House built in mid-70s, copper water lines in crawlspace and throughout the house.

3 times in about a 3 week span, we have had 3 different pinhole leaks spring from what amounts to the same length of pipe leading to the hose bibb on the back of the house.

Plumbers suggest repiping the house given the age of the pipes (40+ years).

Seemed like a reasonable suggestion which I backed up with a bit of research online. Looks like 20-50 years is the suggested lifetime of copper.

That said, we used to have a passive solar water heating system. I remembered after a repair to that system (that had sat unused with a broken pump for a year or two) that the PEX piping it used burst/exploded on two subsequent occasions. (Note: we have since replaced the roofing shingles and removed the solar panels.)

It dawned on me that those pipes in the attic distended and exploded. I had originally assumed it was related to the heat, but what if it was related to pressure? And by extension, what if the problem with the copper is really about the pressure and not entirely about corrosion/age.

Plus, if we pull all our copper pipes and replace with PEX are we wasting our money and setting ourselves up for other imminent failures.

So, I purchased a pressure gauge and found the pressure at both outside spigots to be 2 ticks below 80 PSI...which I am guessing is about 75-76 PSI.

Everything I read online suggests PSI for a residence should be much lower (40-60 PSI).

Any of you with experience in this area have any thoughts? Thanks!

 

[SaltyMeatBallsOO]

PEX is awesome! It's very easy to work with.

 

[Pvilletigerfan]

@scartiger i believe is a plumber

 

[scartiger]

House built in mid-70s, copper water lines in crawlspace and throughout the house.

3 times in about a 3 week span, we have had 3 different pinhole leaks spring from what amounts to the same length of pipe leading to the hose bibb on the back of the house.

Plumbers suggest repiping the house given the age of the pipes (40+ years).

Seemed like a reasonable suggestion which I backed up with a bit of research online. Looks like 20-50 years is the suggested lifetime of copper.

That said, we used to have a passive solar water heating system. I remembered after a repair to that system (that had sat unused with a broken pump for a year or two) that the PEX piping it used burst/exploded on two subsequent occasions. (Note: we have since replaced the roofing shingles and removed the solar panels.)

It dawned on me that those pipes in the attic distended and exploded. I had originally assumed it was related to the heat, but what if it was related to pressure? And by extension, what if the problem with the copper is really about the pressure and not entirely about corrosion/age.

Plus, if we pull all our copper pipes and replace with PEX are we wasting our money and setting ourselves up for other imminent failures.

So, I purchased a pressure gauge and found the pressure at both outside spigots to be 2 ticks below 80 PSI...which I am guessing is about 75-76 PSI.

Everything I read online suggests PSI for a residence should be much lower (40-60 PSI).

Any of you with experience in this area have any thoughts? Thanks!

Yes the copper water lines needs to be replaced. I would recommend pex and the most pressure I would recommend is 80 psi on the water system.

 

[tigerGUY]

Yes the copper water lines needs to be replaced. I would recommend pex and the most pressure I would recommend is 80 psi on the water system.

@scartiger ....Let me give you some perspective on a high end RV's plumbing. I installed a gauge that doesn't allow over 40 psi. Bad...BAD...for plumbing when it surges over50 psi.

I also paid $400 for a surge protector. Going cheap doesn't pay in homes....or RV's.

 

[scartiger]

@scartiger ....Let me give you some perspective on a high end RV's plumbing. I installed a gauge that doesn't allow over 40 psi. Bad...BAD...for plumbing when it surges over50 psi.

I also paid $400 for a surge protector. Going cheap doesn't pay in homes....or RV's.

Pex is rated for 160 psi we don't recommend having over 80 psi. You have 50 psi on your system and someone flushes a commode or have multiple supplies on not enough water.

 

[castlesl]

House built in mid-70s, copper water lines in crawlspace and throughout the house.

3 times in about a 3 week span, we have had 3 different pinhole leaks spring from what amounts to the same length of pipe leading to the hose bibb on the back of the house.

Plumbers suggest repiping the house given the age of the pipes (40+ years).

Seemed like a reasonable suggestion which I backed up with a bit of research online. Looks like 20-50 years is the suggested lifetime of copper.

That said, we used to have a passive solar water heating system. I remembered after a repair to that system (that had sat unused with a broken pump for a year or two) that the PEX piping it used burst/exploded on two subsequent occasions. (Note: we have since replaced the roofing shingles and removed the solar panels.)

It dawned on me that those pipes in the attic distended and exploded. I had originally assumed it was related to the heat, but what if it was related to pressure? And by extension, what if the problem with the copper is really about the pressure and not entirely about corrosion/age.

Plus, if we pull all our copper pipes and replace with PEX are we wasting our money and setting ourselves up for other imminent failures.

So, I purchased a pressure gauge and found the pressure at both outside spigots to be 2 ticks below 80 PSI...which I am guessing is about 75-76 PSI.

Everything I read online suggests PSI for a residence should be much lower (40-60 PSI).

Any of you with experience in this area have any thoughts? Thanks!

Listen to SCAR. They almost don’t use copper in homes anymore. PEX is great and there is nothing wrong with 80 PSI. Wish i had it.

 

[SaltyMeatBallsOO]

Are typical shower heads, sink faucets etc, rated for 80 psi?

 

[PalmettoTiger1]

House built in mid-70s, copper water lines in crawlspace and throughout the house.

3 times in about a 3 week span, we have had 3 different pinhole leaks spring from what amounts to the same length of pipe leading to the hose bibb on the back of the house.

Plumbers suggest repiping the house given the age of the pipes (40+ years).

Seemed like a reasonable suggestion which I backed up with a bit of research online. Looks like 20-50 years is the suggested lifetime of copper.

That said, we used to have a passive solar water heating system. I remembered after a repair to that system (that had sat unused with a broken pump for a year or two) that the PEX piping it used burst/exploded on two subsequent occasions. (Note: we have since replaced the roofing shingles and removed the solar panels.)

It dawned on me that those pipes in the attic distended and exploded. I had originally assumed it was related to the heat, but what if it was related to pressure? And by extension, what if the problem with the copper is really about the pressure and not entirely about corrosion/age.

Plus, if we pull all our copper pipes and replace with PEX are we wasting our money and setting ourselves up for other imminent failures.

So, I purchased a pressure gauge and found the pressure at both outside spigots to be 2 ticks below 80 PSI...which I am guessing is about 75-76 PSI.

Everything I read online suggests PSI for a residence should be much lower (40-60 PSI).

Any of you with experience in this area have any thoughts? Thanks!

Pressure too high for house

Suggest Pressure regulated tank that fills to 40 PSI

Use the 80 PSI similar to a pump and shut off an inlet valve at 50 or less

Copper tubing can develop pin hole leaks everywhere depending on chemistry and water quality

I personally would. Replace all of the copper if possible

If not invest in water softner

That’s my take

 

[scartiger]

Are typical shower heads, sink faucets etc, rated for 80 psi?

Why we don't recommend over 80 psi.

Pressure Assist: 1.4 gpf requires a minimum of 20 psi and a maximum of 80 psi. 1.1 gpf or less require a minimum of 35 psi to a maximum of 80 psi static. *Flushometers: Siphonic flush bowl style requires 25 gpm at 35 psi minimum and 80 psi maximum static.

 

[CUAngler]

Just had all the copper pipes in my house and walls replaced with pex due to pin hole leaks starting. Was a fun 3k check to write.

 

[ClemsonMax]

Just had all the copper pipes in my house and walls replaced with pex due to pin hole leaks starting. Was a fun 3k check to write.

How big is your house? We're going to be in the same boat soon. House was built in early 80s so only a matter of time before the copper pipes fail. Not as worried about replacing the crawlspace pipes as I am the second story pipes and how much they're going to have to rip up the ceilings and walls.

 

[tigerGUY]

Pex is rated for 160 psi we don't recommend having over 80 psi. You have 50 psi on your system and someone flushes a commode or have multiple supplies on not enough water.

NOT when flushing in an RV. Water pressure...or lack thereof...is an issue I'm told. I'm new at it, but smart enough to do my research. Prepare for the worst, expect the best.

 

[jroller]

Thanks for the feedback so far. A few more details. I am in a 1450 sq ft single story ranch and being fed by the Mount Pleasant Waterworks system.

 

[scartiger]

Thanks for the feedback so far. A few more details. I am in a 1450 sq ft single story ranch and being fed by the Mount Pleasant Waterworks system.

If you have a 2 bathroom house and they put new water lines in the wall and put new stops on everything that's a good price.

 

[scartiger]

How big is your house? We're going to be in the same boat soon. House was built in early 80s so only a matter of time before the copper pipes fail. Not as worried about replacing the crawlspace pipes as I am the second story pipes and how much they're going to have to rip up the ceilings and walls.

It cost more for a 2 story house. Especially with the added cost of sheetrock repair. If you have 2 bathrooms upstairs looking at 6,000 to 7,000.

 

[ClemsonMax]

It cost more for a 2 story house. Especially with the added cost of sheetrock repair. If you have 2 bathrooms upstairs looking at 6,000 to 7,000.

That's what I was afraid of. Thanks for the info!

 

[CUAngler]

How big is your house? We're going to be in the same boat soon. House was built in early 80s so only a matter of time before the copper pipes fail. Not as worried about replacing the crawlspace pipes as I am the second story pipes and how much they're going to have to rip up the ceilings and walls.

1500 but master bath and kitchen walls were done when we remodeled.

 

[PalmettoTiger1]

Thanks for the feedback so far. A few more details. I am in a 1450 sq ft single story ranch and being fed by the Mount Pleasant Waterworks system.

I remodeled some Mt Pleasant homes to rent in Charleston single family and after about 2 years decided that was a bad idea

Houses had too many maintenance issues from construction that needed corrections

 

[PalmettoTiger1]

Thanks for the feedback so far. A few more details. I am in a 1450 sq ft single story ranch and being fed by the Mount Pleasant Waterworks system.

Your problem will be under the slab Ouch

 

[jroller]

Your problem will be under the slab Ouch

Nope on a crawl space. Don’t think I’d ever buy a slab house, honestly.

 

[LVC11]

Great question @jroller

We have been making upgrades to our house in Roanoke since we moved in last September (fenced in backyard, renovated kitchen, new HVAC install) and plumbing is next. We have galvanized lines running throughout the house, except in our new kitchen.

 

[TigerBo413]

As a plumber I completely agree with @scartiger

 

[jeffcoat]

My 1st question is where are you getting 75-80 psig water pressure? City water or well? Wow.

I agree PEX is what you should switch to. I don't believe the pressure is the problem. It's either corrosion/erosion or cracks due to fatigue. I've had problems in my house due to the type of fittings (elbows/tees/) failing due to fatigue and have had to replace 4-6 at a time 3 or 4 times over the last 3 years.

I'm not a plumber, but it is fairly easy work if you don't mind getting dirty and working in the crawlspace. But I do inspect a lot of storage tanks, pressure vessels, & piping at Chemical plants so I have read up on and have a lot of experience with corrosion. One of the 1st books I read on the basics of corrosion had a chapter on pipelines. Once a pipeline has a leak, the frequency of re-occurrence increases exponentially for reasons to complicated to write about here, but my point is that the frequency of leaks will probably increase so I would have it all replaced now if you can.

 

[jroller]

My 1st question is where are you getting 75-80 psig water pressure? City water or well? Wow.

I agree PEX is what you should switch to. I don't believe the pressure is the problem. It's either corrosion/erosion or cracks due to fatigue. I've had problems in my house due to the type of fittings (elbows/tees/) failing due to fatigue and have had to replace 4-6 at a time 3 or 4 times over the last 3 years.

I'm not a plumber, but it is fairly easy work if you don't mind getting dirty and working in the crawlspace. But I do inspect a lot of storage tanks, pressure vessels, & piping at Chemical plants so I have read up on and have a lot of experience with corrosion. One of the 1st books I read on the basics of corrosion had a chapter on pipelines. Once a pipeline has a leak, the frequency of re-occurrence increases exponentially for reasons to complicated to write about here, but my point is that the frequency of leaks will probably increase so I would have it all replaced now if you can.

City: Mount Pleasant Waterworks. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[jroller]

So based on what I am hearing:

• nearly 80 PSI is not too high and I am kind of lucky to have it
• copper pipes do, in fact, begin to fail over time and when failures start we can expect them to continue

Thanks to @scartiger, @TigerBo413, and everyone else for the info. It is good to hear from those in the business and others who have experience with these things. Seemed like repiping an entire house was a drastic step but sounds like it is simply necessary at times.

 

[SaltyMeatBallsOO]

I also heard you can pressurize your copper water lines with 100psi of air and spray 2 cans of Fix-A-Flat in them and be good to go for another 20 years.

Your problem solved for less than $5...please don't share my Shark Tank idea!

 

[CU Alumnus]

I checked mine a few weeks ago and pressure was 90 psi with spikes to 120 during the day. Probably higher at night. I was having faucets randomly drip for a few seconds.

I put a pressure regulator in and set it to about 60 on the farthest source from the valve (not that it should change much). Might up it a little bit but won't go above 70. House has copper and is about 40 years old.

 

[scartiger]

I checked mine a few weeks ago and pressure was 90 psi with spikes to 120 during the day. Probably higher at night. I was having faucets randomly drip for a few seconds.

I put a pressure regulator in and set it to about 60 on the farthest source from the valve (not that it should change much). Might up it a little bit but won't go above 70. House has copper and is about 40 years old.

Just about all city water systems need a pressure reducing valve on some occasions the mains aren't high enough pressure to have one.

 

[CU Alumnus]

Just about all city water systems need a pressure reducing valve on some occasions the mains aren't high enough pressure to have one.

I think Seneca did some work on their system in the past 5-6 years, because for years the pressure was pretty low at the far end of the house from the feed. I had neighbors complain about it too. I suspect that's why the house had no regulator.

Then suddenly it got a LOT better.

That's when the running toilets and burst-dripping showers happened.

 

[CU Alumnus]

I also heard you can pressurize your copper water lines with 100psi of air and spray 2 cans of Fix-A-Flat in them and be good to go for another 20 years.

Your problem solved for less than $5...please don't share my Shark Tank idea!

There is a method to fixing water mains in major cities that isn't all that different from what you describe. I think it's some sort of liner though.