OT: Snowden- Patriot or Traitor?

[appalachiatiger]

i Havwnt listened to Snowden yet, just have heard govt stance and second hand junk from news media.

cant wait to hear Snowden himself.

those that have studied this what do yu think?

is his loyalty to the Constitution

or is he a traitor to the government?

 

[pharout73]

Probably a little of both... alerted US to big brother but hurt our overseas intelligence.

Sad part is government is so insular he probably would have been offed if he tried to do it from within.

 

[appalachiatiger]

i cant wait to hear his side of the story

my knowledge is in passing of small articles but nothing from his mouth

after watching bin laden and saddam speeches for 15 years then listening to our media and govt

i learned that what they say and how we interpret are no the same

 

[SWUtigers]

I lean more towards what pharout says. I think he was justified at first but now he is actually aiding our enemy. Hopefully he dies a slow and painful death.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[DieHard4Clemson]

Two different friends of mine with really high government clearance and similar politics gave two very different answers one night when we were discussing this very issue. It's not black and white. Although I, myself, lean towards calling him a patriot.

 

[DieHard4Clemson]

We are allowed to get upset with Snowden for releasing intel that included names of contacts and operatives overseas and yet we think nothing of it when our own White House does the same thing, like what was reported earlier this week.

 

[charlestontiger417]

He put human beings at risk. Plain and simple. Traitor it is!!

 

[blythewood tigers]

I've listened to him many times now, this guy is an EXTREMLY intelligent individual, like the Matt Damon character in Good Will Hunting intelligent. He is the type of smart that doesn't need to go to school, just visualizes what needs to be done and simply does it. I think you get the picture. I am looking forward to the interview tonight and I am hoping it isn't "sanitized" like the 60 minutes "Flash Boys" interview was, that will suck if it is. People, American citizens deserve to know what is really going on and more importantly, the amount we are BORROWING against our children and grandchildren's/great-grandchildren's future.

With that said, I don't think the "normal" American citizen can comprehend or understand how RARE this is, a citizen with this type of government knowledge coming forward and not just explaining what is taking place EVERY single day, but laying it out in black and white. This guy knows more about these systems than ANYONE we will ever see on public TV.... ANYONE. Since the vast majority of people don't understand this, the government uses this ignorance to their advantage and plays the card of "damaging" or "endangering" our society. This is where it gets disgusting in my opinion.

I will bet my house, wife, child and dog that Snowden will talk about individual liberty or "our" liberties with MUCH emotion. If we don't understand how IMPORTANT our own liberties our than we are in VERY deep doo-doo people..... it ALL starts there and I don't care what you are talking about. This BS that we must sacrifice some liberties to keep us safe is THE oldest government trick in the book, literally THOUSANDS of years old!!! We must stop falling for this crap, i.e. The Patriot Act and others like them.

Do you want to know what a traitor or liar looks like that has LITERALLY killed HUNDREDS of thousands of human beings? Look no further than the last two Presidents of the U.S.A., these two guys have LIED to us and KILLED people for absolutely NO reason that did NOTHING to harm any of us. And we are concerned with Edward Snowden? Because the government say's he MAY harm us by spilling the beans he has collected.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't "may harm us" a use of words that represent what MAY happen in the future? And, killing hundreds of thousands of DOCUMENTED (FACT) people an act that has already happened and continues to happen to this day? I am not as smart as Snowden but I can tell there is a BIG difference between the two and I FEAR the later much more than the first.

Edward Snowden is a living American Patriot.

 

[FewTiger84]

as if they were not already at risk? I agree with pharout as well. A little of both sounds about right. Me personally I lean more towards patriot.

 

[NavyTigerSC]

Peacekeeping is ugly business. That's the way it is, and the way it's always been. Nobody wants to know how the sausage is made, but when somebody like Snowden comes along to protest the activity of our intelligence community in trying to keep people safe, the outrage is swift.

Snowden broke the law. He stole secrets. He did in FAR in excess of what he needed to blow the lid on the "snooping". And then he fled to hostile nations.

He's no different than Jonathan Pollard. However benevolent he may think he is, he's a traitor and felon.

 

[SWUtigers]

Originally posted by blythewood tigers:
I've listened to him many times now, this guy is an EXTREMLY intelligent individual, like the Matt Damon character in Good Will Hunting intelligent. He is the type of smart that doesn't need to go to school, just visualizes what needs to be done and simply does it. I think you get the picture. I am looking forward to the interview tonight and I am hoping it isn't "sanitized" like the 60 minutes "Flash Boys" interview was, that will suck if it is. People, American citizens deserve to know what is really going on and more importantly, the amount we are BORROWING against our children and grandchildren's/great-grandchildren's future.

With that said, I don't think the "normal" American citizen can comprehend or understand how RARE this is, a citizen with this type of government knowledge coming forward and not just explaining what is taking place EVERY single day, but laying it out in black and white. This guy knows more about these systems than ANYONE we will ever see on public TV.... ANYONE. Since the vast majority of people don't understand this, the government uses this ignorance to their advantage and plays the card of "damaging" or "endangering" our society. This is where it gets disgusting in my opinion.

I will bet my house, wife, child and dog that Snowden will talk about individual liberty or "our" liberties with MUCH emotion. If we don't understand how IMPORTANT our own liberties our than we are in VERY deep doo-doo people..... it ALL starts there and I don't care what you are talking about. This BS that we must sacrifice some liberties to keep us safe is THE oldest government trick in the book, literally THOUSANDS of years old!!! We must stop falling for this crap, i.e. The Patriot Act and others like them.

Do you want to know what a traitor or liar looks like that has LITERALLY killed HUNDREDS of thousands of human beings? Look no further than the last two Presidents of the U.S.A., these two guys have LIED to us and KILLED people for absolutely NO reason that did NOTHING to harm any of us. And we are concerned with Edward Snowden? Because the government say's he MAY harm us by spilling the beans he has collected.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't "may harm us" a use of words that represent what MAY happen in the future? And, killing hundreds of thousands of DOCUMENTED (FACT) people an act that has already happened and continues to happen to this day? I am not as smart as Snowden but I can tell there is a BIG difference between the two and I FEAR the later much more than the first.

Edward Snowden is a living American Patriot.

You were on a roll up until you called Bush and Obama murderers. That is shear lunacy and devoid of any rational thought. We are not privy to the massive amounts of information that these Presidents get on a DAILY basis. There are threats to OUR liberties by lunatics across the globe.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not discounting what our gov't has been doing for a while now. We need to get the phuck off reality shows and turn our focus to local and national politics. The career politicians are running wild and exploiting us every. single. day.

However, Snowden is working closely with the Russians to undermine our intelligence and security and has put countless lives at stake, as a result. So when you speak of "individual liberty", do you mean only his? Because I fail to see how him working with the Russians will strengthen the liberties I hold dear in this country. And I can assure you the Russians don't have my nor your best intentions in mind.

 

[DrPeterVenkman]

Saw something. Said something.

Being a good American per the govt ad campaign.

 

[appalachiatiger]

with that philosophy u could say goerge bush is a traitor when he went into iraq

 

[appalachiatiger]

hey navy

breaking the law versus defending the constitution is a fine line

if i was a general and the president told me to do something that violated the constitution i would do it- i would probably place him under arrest

he is no more important than a dishwasher at applebees when it comes to defending the constitution

i think we place power above the constitution and we need to stop it.

i hope cia, nsa, fbi,and military officials will start defending the constitution against the elect bums and start placing them under arrest.

 

[Buzzards Roost]

Traitor. Regardless of whether you like the current administration or the NSA. Russia and China are our enemies. If he had handed it to the NY Times and let himself be arrested then he is not a traitor.

 

[appalachiatiger]

hey swu

how do u know what information he has given the russians?

have you spoken with him personally?

or u just relaying what our govt officials are aaying to the media?

 

[Buzzards Roost]

Making a short leap he gave them info. He didn't defect to Mozambique. Our govt has to assume he squealed.

 

[Transference]

Originally posted by NavyTigerSC:
Peacekeeping is ugly business. That's the way it is, and the way it's always been. Nobody wants to know how the sausage is made, but when somebody like Snowden comes along to protest the activity of our intelligence community in trying to keep people safe, the outrage is swift.

Snowden broke the law. He stole secrets. He did in FAR in excess of what he needed to blow the lid on the "snooping". And then he fled to hostile nations.

He's no different than Jonathan Pollard. However benevolent he may think he is, he's a traitor and felon.

This 100%. When you think it is important to divulge this amount of information to the public, you should do so knowing that you may lose your rights and you have to stand on your principal. Running to nations that are hostile to the US was a terrible decision, and one that is going to define his place in history.

At the end of the day the US government, and the people who run it, are constantly thinking about what they need to do to protect American lives. They are only looking at the governance equation from a risk standpoint. At some time, they are going to over step their bounds since they are tasked with only looking at things from one side of the equation. That is when you have people like Snowden step up and shed light on some of the malpractices. Leaking the information that Snowden leaked was illegal and detrimental to the security of the United States, but he probably could have stood in a court and made some pretty good justifications for the leaks (and would have had public support for them). However, him fleeing the country instead of facing his illegalities shows that his convictions and motives were wrong.

 

[SWUtigers]

Originally posted by appalachiatiger:
hey swu

how do u know what information he has given the russians?

have you spoken with him personally?

or u just relaying what our govt officials are aaying to the media?

No tinfoil guy...

Ex-KGB admitted it

 

[SWUtigers]

Originally posted by Transference:

Originally posted by NavyTigerSC:
Peacekeeping is ugly business. That's the way it is, and the way it's always been. Nobody wants to know how the sausage is made, but when somebody like Snowden comes along to protest the activity of our intelligence community in trying to keep people safe, the outrage is swift.

Snowden broke the law. He stole secrets. He did in FAR in excess of what he needed to blow the lid on the "snooping". And then he fled to hostile nations.

He's no different than Jonathan Pollard. However benevolent he may think he is, he's a traitor and felon.

This 100%. When you think it is important to divulge this amount of information to the public, you should do so knowing that you may lose your rights and you have to stand on your principal. Running to nations that are hostile to the US was a terrible decision, and one that is going to define his place in history.

At the end of the day the US government, and the people who run it, are constantly thinking about what they need to do to protect American lives. They are only looking at the governance equation from a risk standpoint. At some time, they are going to over step their bounds since they are tasked with only looking at things from one side of the equation. That is when you have people like Snowden step up and shed light on some of the malpractices. Leaking the information that Snowden leaked was illegal and detrimental to the security of the United States, but he probably could have stood in a court and made some pretty good justifications for the leaks (and would have had public support for them). However, him fleeing the country instead of facing his illegalities shows that his convictions and motives were wrong.

Agree with the both of you!

 

[1Clemzunfan]

Traitor and its not even debatable. If he wanted to blow the whistle he could have done so in a different manner. Also, if he just wanted to blow the whistle on the NSA practices, why steal the monumental and unrelated amount of intelligence that he did, to include our black budget and other top secret security intel? If you say it was to have as leverage to protect himself, then that is not a patriot. A patriot is someone who would die for their country to defend it. Stealing the unrelated NSA intelligence that he did, intelligence that could clearly jeopardize the security of the United States and its citizens, simply so he could offer it to rival nations in exchange for cash and protection if not made a hero back home is not something a patriot would do. Its basically putting self before country instead of country before self. Basically he fled the country with what he felt was enough info to destroy us and he was willing to do just that if he felt it was in his best personal interest to do so.

If this nation needed protecting from our NSA policies a true patriot would have done everything in their power to expose the truth without destroying or threatening to destroy the very nation he says he is trying to save. And if required, a true patriot would have been willing to sacrifice himself if that is what it took. This man was not willing to sacrifice himself for country. He was a disgruntled employee, who was a failure in life, and wanted to lash out. He did so under the guise of a "patriot" except his plan all along, as evidenced by the intel that he stole, was to destroy the very country and harm its citizens by releasing said intel to foreign nations if his own personal interests and demands were not met on his terms.

He has threatened the very security of the USA and all of us with his actions. If he had simply taken info related to the NSA program and fled the country to "expose a wrong", risking his own life in the process, maybe he is a patriot. But that is not what he did. He did so with his end game being to destroy or at least harm the USA and its citizens if his own desired outcome was not met.

 

[blythewood tigers]

Originally posted by blythewood tigers:
I've listened to him many times now, this guy is an EXTREMLY intelligent individual, like the Matt Damon character in Good Will Hunting intelligent. He is the type of smart that doesn't need to go to school, just visualizes what needs to be done and simply does it. I think you get the picture. I am looking forward to the interview tonight and I am hoping it isn't "sanitized" like the 60 minutes "Flash Boys" interview was, that will suck if it is. People, American citizens deserve to know what is really going on and more importantly, the amount we are BORROWING against our children and grandchildren's/great-grandchildren's future.

With that said, I don't think the "normal" American citizen can comprehend or understand how RARE this is, a citizen with this type of government knowledge coming forward and not just explaining what is taking place EVERY single day, but laying it out in black and white. This guy knows more about these systems than ANYONE we will ever see on public TV.... ANYONE. Since the vast majority of people don't understand this, the government uses this ignorance to their advantage and plays the card of "damaging" or "endangering" our society. This is where it gets disgusting in my opinion.

I will bet my house, wife, child and dog that Snowden will talk about individual liberty or "our" liberties with MUCH emotion. If we don't understand how IMPORTANT our own liberties our than we are in VERY deep doo-doo people..... it ALL starts there and I don't care what you are talking about. This BS that we must sacrifice some liberties to keep us safe is THE oldest government trick in the book, literally THOUSANDS of years old!!! We must stop falling for this crap, i.e. The Patriot Act and others like them.

Do you want to know what a traitor or liar looks like that has LITERALLY killed HUNDREDS of thousands of human beings? Look no further than the last two Presidents of the U.S.A., these two guys have LIED to us and KILLED people for absolutely NO reason that did NOTHING to harm any of us. And we are concerned with Edward Snowden? Because the government say's he MAY harm us by spilling the beans he has collected.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't "may harm us" a use of words that represent what MAY happen in the future? And, killing hundreds of thousands of DOCUMENTED (FACT) people an act that has already happened and continues to happen to this day? I am not as smart as Snowden but I can tell there is a BIG difference between the two and I FEAR the later much more than the first.

Edward Snowden is a living American Patriot.

You were on a roll up until you called Bush and Obama murderers. That is shear lunacy and devoid of any rational thought. We are not privy to the massive amounts of information that these Presidents get on a DAILY basis. There are threats to OUR liberties by lunatics across the globe.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not discounting what our gov't has been doing for a while now. We need to get the phuck off reality shows and turn our focus to local and national politics. The career politicians are running wild and exploiting us every. single. day.

However, Snowden is working closely with the Russians to undermine our intelligence and security and has put countless lives at stake, as a result. So when you speak of "individual liberty", do you mean only his? Because I fail to see how him working with the Russians will strengthen the liberties I hold dear in this country. And I can assure you the Russians don't have my nor your best intentions in mind.




What I wrote is beyond rational thought SWUtigers, its called fact, something that has been proven true without reasonable doubt. Bush AND Obama have lied to the American people time and time again with the outcome of human deaths. If you want me to write down the facts I will be more than happy to do so, but don't think for one second I am going to write something like this down (needless human deaths) and not take it VERY seriously.

The other VERY important fact that I made reference to is our liberties are NEVER at jeopardy from some foreign land!!!! No "lunatic" is EVER going to threaten your liberties from outside the USA, if you believe that (as our last two presidents want you to believe) than you don't understand the Constitution.

Also, if you believe Snowden is "working" with the Russians than you don't know what Snowden has already done nor do you understand what the Russians already know without Snowden. Just out of curiosity, do you believe the Russians need Snowden for information? If you do than maybe the interview tonight will clear the air, so-to-speak.

 

[SWUtigers]

Originally posted by blythewood tigers:

Originally posted by blythewood tigers:
I've listened to him many times now, this guy is an EXTREMLY intelligent individual, like the Matt Damon character in Good Will Hunting intelligent. He is the type of smart that doesn't need to go to school, just visualizes what needs to be done and simply does it. I think you get the picture. I am looking forward to the interview tonight and I am hoping it isn't "sanitized" like the 60 minutes "Flash Boys" interview was, that will suck if it is. People, American citizens deserve to know what is really going on and more importantly, the amount we are BORROWING against our children and grandchildren's/great-grandchildren's future.

With that said, I don't think the "normal" American citizen can comprehend or understand how RARE this is, a citizen with this type of government knowledge coming forward and not just explaining what is taking place EVERY single day, but laying it out in black and white. This guy knows more about these systems than ANYONE we will ever see on public TV.... ANYONE. Since the vast majority of people don't understand this, the government uses this ignorance to their advantage and plays the card of "damaging" or "endangering" our society. This is where it gets disgusting in my opinion.

I will bet my house, wife, child and dog that Snowden will talk about individual liberty or "our" liberties with MUCH emotion. If we don't understand how IMPORTANT our own liberties our than we are in VERY deep doo-doo people..... it ALL starts there and I don't care what you are talking about. This BS that we must sacrifice some liberties to keep us safe is THE oldest government trick in the book, literally THOUSANDS of years old!!! We must stop falling for this crap, i.e. The Patriot Act and others like them.

Do you want to know what a traitor or liar looks like that has LITERALLY killed HUNDREDS of thousands of human beings? Look no further than the last two Presidents of the U.S.A., these two guys have LIED to us and KILLED people for absolutely NO reason that did NOTHING to harm any of us. And we are concerned with Edward Snowden? Because the government say's he MAY harm us by spilling the beans he has collected.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't "may harm us" a use of words that represent what MAY happen in the future? And, killing hundreds of thousands of DOCUMENTED (FACT) people an act that has already happened and continues to happen to this day? I am not as smart as Snowden but I can tell there is a BIG difference between the two and I FEAR the later much more than the first.

Edward Snowden is a living American Patriot.

You were on a roll up until you called Bush and Obama murderers. That is shear lunacy and devoid of any rational thought. We are not privy to the massive amounts of information that these Presidents get on a DAILY basis. There are threats to OUR liberties by lunatics across the globe.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not discounting what our gov't has been doing for a while now. We need to get the phuck off reality shows and turn our focus to local and national politics. The career politicians are running wild and exploiting us every. single. day.

However, Snowden is working closely with the Russians to undermine our intelligence and security and has put countless lives at stake, as a result. So when you speak of "individual liberty", do you mean only his? Because I fail to see how him working with the Russians will strengthen the liberties I hold dear in this country. And I can assure you the Russians don't have my nor your best intentions in mind.




What I wrote is beyond rational thought SWUtigers, its called fact, something that has been proven true without reasonable doubt. Bush AND Obama have lied to the American people time and time again with the outcome of human deaths. If you want me to write down the facts I will be more than happy to do so, but don't think for one second I am going to write something like this down (needless human deaths) and not take it VERY seriously.

The other VERY important fact that I made reference to is our liberties are NEVER at jeopardy from some foreign land!!!! No "lunatic" is EVER going to threaten your liberties from outside the USA, if you believe that (as our last two presidents want you to believe) than you don't understand the Constitution.

Also, if you believe Snowden is "working" with the Russians than you don't know what Snowden has already done nor do you understand what the Russians already know without Snowden. Just out of curiosity, do you believe the Russians need Snowden for information? If you do than maybe the interview tonight will clear the air, so-to-speak. Fact huh? So Bush and Obama should be tried for war crimes, is that it?

As to your vast knowledge of what the Russians know about Snowden, I will rely on an ex-KGB general who says that Snowden is in fact helping the Russians. If you have more in depth and first-hand knowledge, I'd love to hear it.

 

[blythewood tigers]

with that philosophy u could say goerge bush is a traitor when he went into Iraq



Appalachia, what is the definition of traitor? One who betrays his country, right? How could somebody like Bush NOT be considered a traitor? For that matter or definition, Obama, how could he not be considered as well?

You mention Iraq, what was said by Bush about Iraq? He "connected" the dots on NATIONAL TV about how Saddam had "weapons of mass destruction" from reliable sources and he was somehow connected to 9/11. This was ALL B*LLSH*T!!!! The US ends up KILLING THOUSANDS of people that had NOTHING to do with being a "bad guy" (terrorist is the new word) and they don't have these weapons nor do they have ANYTHING to do with 9/11!! Even WORSE, we end up killing thousands of our own men and women in the process by sending them over there over these LIES!!!

If this doesn't qualify as being "one who betrays his country" WTF does!!!!!

If you think I feel any better about Obama (like I am republican or democrat or pushing a political view) you thought wrong!

 

[tigerGUY]

Originally posted by blythewood tigers:
I've listened to him many times now, this guy is an EXTREMLY intelligent individual, like the Matt Damon character in Good Will Hunting intelligent. He is the type of smart that doesn't need to go to school, just visualizes what needs to be done and simply does it. I think you get the picture. I am looking forward to the interview tonight and I am hoping it isn't "sanitized" like the 60 minutes "Flash Boys" interview was, that will suck if it is. People, American citizens deserve to know what is really going on and more importantly, the amount we are BORROWING against our children and grandchildren's/great-grandchildren's future.

With that said, I don't think the "normal" American citizen can comprehend or understand how RARE this is, a citizen with this type of government knowledge coming forward and not just explaining what is taking place EVERY single day, but laying it out in black and white. This guy knows more about these systems than ANYONE we will ever see on public TV.... ANYONE. Since the vast majority of people don't understand this, the government uses this ignorance to their advantage and plays the card of "damaging" or "endangering" our society. This is where it gets disgusting in my opinion.

I will bet my house, wife, child and dog that Snowden will talk about individual liberty or "our" liberties with MUCH emotion. If we don't understand how IMPORTANT our own liberties our than we are in VERY deep doo-doo people..... it ALL starts there and I don't care what you are talking about. This BS that we must sacrifice some liberties to keep us safe is THE oldest government trick in the book, literally THOUSANDS of years old!!! We must stop falling for this crap, i.e. The Patriot Act and others like them.

Do you want to know what a traitor or liar looks like that has LITERALLY killed HUNDREDS of thousands of human beings? Look no further than the last two Presidents of the U.S.A., these two guys have LIED to us and KILLED people for absolutely NO reason that did NOTHING to harm any of us. And we are concerned with Edward Snowden? Because the government say's he MAY harm us by spilling the beans he has collected.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't "may harm us" a use of words that represent what MAY happen in the future? And, killing hundreds of thousands of DOCUMENTED (FACT) people an act that has already happened and continues to happen to this day? I am not as smart as Snowden but I can tell there is a BIG difference between the two and I FEAR the later much more than the first.

Edward Snowden is a living American Patriot.

Preach it Brother!! The man has bigger nads and loves this country enough to literally lose his country and family for the American people. Apathy and ignorance of the American people is killing our country. He is a red, white and blue Patriot.

 

[OrangeForever]

Traitor.

Should die by firing squad.

There is a difference between finding Docs on the Govt easedropping programs and sending them to the NY Times, Boston Herald, etc then taking 1.7 mm docs, 2 laptops and going to China and Russia.

Those 2 places did not let him stay because of his charm, wit and anti-american stance. They are scratching his back because he is scratching theirs and risks american lives overseas because of it.

 

[Game Well]

Patriot. What he has done is rewarded in the private company sector. IRS, etc rewards whistleblowers.

 

[vatiger1]

Yep agree. There is no fine line.

Originally posted by OrangeForever:
Traitor.

Should die by firing squad.

There is a difference between finding Docs on the Govt easedropping programs and sending them to the NY Times, Boston Herald, etc then taking 1.7 mm docs, 2 laptops and going to China and Russia.

Those 2 places did not let him stay because of his charm, wit and anti-american stance. They are scratching his back because he is scratching theirs and risks american lives overseas because of it.

 

[blythewood tigers]

Fact huh? So Bush and Obama should be tried for war crimes, is that it?

As to your vast knowledge of what the Russians know about Snowden, I will rely on an ex-KGB general who says that Snowden is in fact helping the Russians. If you have more in depth and first-hand knowledge, I'd love to hear it.



Absolutely, positively, 100%, without any doubt, YES!!

Yes, silly me, I would believe a ex-KGB general as well and definitely not Snowden. My "vast knowledge" is what Snowden has already said in person.... and guess what..... it has all come TRUE!! WOW, how about that, the man hasn't LIED yet!!! But wait, the ex-KGB guy is still ex-KGB, so he must also be telling the truth because they have been found to be VERY trustworthy in the past... so you are right, I am now caught in a dilemma. Who should I trust? I hope you can tell I am being very sarcastic (smart-a** maybe as well) but at the same time proved my point.

 

[SWUtigers]

Originally posted by blythewood tigers:

with that philosophy u could say goerge bush is a traitor when he went into Iraq



Appalachia, what is the definition of traitor? One who betrays his country, right? How could somebody like Bush NOT be considered a traitor? For that matter or definition, Obama, how could he not be considered as well?

You mention Iraq, what was said by Bush about Iraq? He "connected" the dots on NATIONAL TV about how Saddam had "weapons of mass destruction" from reliable sources and he was somehow connected to 9/11. This was ALL B*LLSH*T!!!! The US ends up KILLING THOUSANDS of people that had NOTHING to do with being a "bad guy" (terrorist is the new word) and they don't have these weapons nor do they have ANYTHING to do with 9/11!! Even WORSE, we end up killing thousands of our own men and women in the process by sending them over there over these LIES!!!

If this doesn't qualify as being "one who betrays his country" WTF does!!!!!

If you think I feel any better about Obama (like I am republican or democrat or pushing a political view) you thought wrong!

You do realize that many Democrats (many of whom were not friendly to Bush) presented with the same intel as Bush and agreed to go into Iraq as well, right? Does that make them war criminals, too? Goodness gracious...

Sooooo

 

[TaylorsTiger]

Originally posted by tigerGUY:

Originally posted by blythewood tigers:
I've listened to him many times now, this guy is an EXTREMLY intelligent individual, like the Matt Damon character in Good Will Hunting intelligent. He is the type of smart that doesn't need to go to school, just visualizes what needs to be done and simply does it. I think you get the picture. I am looking forward to the interview tonight and I am hoping it isn't "sanitized" like the 60 minutes "Flash Boys" interview was, that will suck if it is. People, American citizens deserve to know what is really going on and more importantly, the amount we are BORROWING against our children and grandchildren's/great-grandchildren's future.

With that said, I don't think the "normal" American citizen can comprehend or understand how RARE this is, a citizen with this type of government knowledge coming forward and not just explaining what is taking place EVERY single day, but laying it out in black and white. This guy knows more about these systems than ANYONE we will ever see on public TV.... ANYONE. Since the vast majority of people don't understand this, the government uses this ignorance to their advantage and plays the card of "damaging" or "endangering" our society. This is where it gets disgusting in my opinion.

I will bet my house, wife, child and dog that Snowden will talk about individual liberty or "our" liberties with MUCH emotion. If we don't understand how IMPORTANT our own liberties our than we are in VERY deep doo-doo people..... it ALL starts there and I don't care what you are talking about. This BS that we must sacrifice some liberties to keep us safe is THE oldest government trick in the book, literally THOUSANDS of years old!!! We must stop falling for this crap, i.e. The Patriot Act and others like them.

Do you want to know what a traitor or liar looks like that has LITERALLY killed HUNDREDS of thousands of human beings? Look no further than the last two Presidents of the U.S.A., these two guys have LIED to us and KILLED people for absolutely NO reason that did NOTHING to harm any of us. And we are concerned with Edward Snowden? Because the government say's he MAY harm us by spilling the beans he has collected.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't "may harm us" a use of words that represent what MAY happen in the future? And, killing hundreds of thousands of DOCUMENTED (FACT) people an act that has already happened and continues to happen to this day? I am not as smart as Snowden but I can tell there is a BIG difference between the two and I FEAR the later much more than the first.

Edward Snowden is a living American Patriot.

Preach it Brother!! The man has bigger nads and loves this country enough to literally lose his country and family for the American people. Apathy and ignorance of the American people is killing our country. He is a red, white and blue Patriot.

Count me in agreement as well with the Patriot crew.

 

[tifan!!!!]

TRAITOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ***

nm

 

[ClemsonTigres]

These comments about him being a spy ring of someone who wants desperately to be back in the spotlight.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[blythewood tigers]

You do realize that many Democrats (many of whom were not friendly to Bush) presented with the same intel as Bush and agreed to go into Iraq as well, right? Does that make them war criminals, too? Goodness gracious...

Sooooo



SWUtigers, you seem to be taking this information a little nonchalantly (by your drunk guy pic) or I am reading you wrong. Hundreds of thousands of people have died.

As I mentioned before, this isn't political, I don't give a rats a** about any democrats or republican information or how they reacted or acted towards Bush. What I am saying is this, if someone betrays (via lies) his or her country that makes them a traitor. It's that simple, I think you would agree with that.

Now, who is doing the traitorous activity is the question, Snowden or the government (insert Bush, Obama, any democrat, any republican)? A lot of people think Snowden is a traitor and that is fine, they can have their own opinion. The sad part is they are saying things like, "death by firing squad", this is where these people need to find out what is true and what is not.

If they think Snowden should die over something that hasn't done ANYTHING to us nor made us any less safe, what do they think should be done to Bush and Obama? They have ALREADY single handedly ordered peoples death sentence, INNOCENT people!!

 

[SWUtigers]

Originally posted by blythewood tigers:

You do realize that many Democrats (many of whom were not friendly to Bush) presented with the same intel as Bush and agreed to go into Iraq as well, right? Does that make them war criminals, too? Goodness gracious...

Sooooo



SWUtigers, you seem to be taking this information a little nonchalantly (by your drunk guy pic) or I am reading you wrong. Hundreds of thousands of people have died.

As I mentioned before, this isn't political, I don't give a rats a** about any democrats or republican information or how they reacted or acted towards Bush. What I am saying is this, if someone betrays (via lies) his or her country that makes them a traitor. It's that simple, I think you would agree with that.

Now, who is doing the traitorous activity is the question, Snowden or the government (insert Bush, Obama, any democrat, any republican)? A lot of people think Snowden is a traitor and that is fine, they can have their own opinion. The sad part is they are saying things like, "death by firing squad", this is where these people need to find out what is true and what is not.

If they think Snowden should die over something that hasn't done ANYTHING to us nor made us any less safe, what do they think should be done to Bush and Obama? They have ALREADY single handedly ordered peoples death sentence, INNOCENT people!!

No you're reading it right.

In the field of war, there are dozens of things in motion and you do the best with the info you are given. Anybody can play Monday QB but I dare you to be put in that position and do everything you say they should have done.

Obama stumped on ending the "senseless wars" and once he was in office and privy to the terrorist threats going on, he changed his tune. Look, we live in a dangerous world and deal with threats all the time and it doesn't excuse the boundaries our gov't has crossed but I'm just not ready to put Bush and Obama in front of a firing squad for going to war. It's not as simple as you think it is.

 

[watty55]

Originally posted by Game Well:
Patriot. What he has done is rewarded in the private company sector. IRS, etc rewards whistleblowers.

Whistleblowers may be rewarded with "15 minutes of fame" by the media. Google "whistleblower life" and the first phrase that pops up is ruined and tons of examples.

Which poses to me a unique question Would you hire a known whistleblower? I assume most big companies would have reservations. They better write a book or start a consulting firm if coming from the private sector.

Usually they are crushed by guys like Stalin and Bobby Harrell.









This post was edited on 5/28 1:41 PM by watty55

 

[88MechEng]

If he gave our secure information away, he is a traitor. Why does he think he gets to decide who gets our information? It is not his to bargain or to give away. That information is just as much mine or any other citizen of the US as it was his and I don't want it given to the Russians or Chinese or anyone else for that matter. This is a guy that took it upon himself to determine what was right or wrong for all of us. While I respect his belief that what our govt was doing was wrong, he went about it the wrong way.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[SDTiger9]

Initially, and I mean initially, a patriot. Since, his constant divulging of information and being on the run, a traitor. At this point, what is the "American", Edward Snowden trying to achieve? It's not being an American.

Like someone said above, peacekeeping is a tough business. I'm glad he stepped forward on what he believe were a fundamental right but those are limited. Dumping secrets............. die a slow a death.

Hopefully Brian Williams is relentless tonight. I'd like to get Jon Stewart on his ass.

 

[appalachiatiger]

yep

bush lied thru hit teeth about yellowcake

thats as bad as us bombing our own ship to start a war

 

[blythewood tigers]

No you're reading it right.

In the field of war, there are dozens of things in motion and you do the best with the info you are given. Anybody can play Monday QB but I dare you to be put in that position and do everything you say they should have done.

Obama stumped on ending the "senseless wars" and once he was in office and privy to the terrorist threats going on, he changed his tune. Look, we live in a dangerous world and deal with threats all the time and it doesn't excuse the boundaries our gov't has crossed but I'm just not ready to put Bush and Obama in front of a firing squad for going to war. It's not as simple as you think it is.


Let me try it this way, I am going to break everything down that you just said.

"In the field of war" - There was NO war, we MADE up the war by LIES!

"Best with the info you are given" - The info. was MADE UP, some of the LIES made PUBLIC by our president at the time to you and me.

"play Monday QB"- You still think I am making this sh*t up as I go or something? You are admitting that you still believe Saddam had WMD and had something to do with 9/11?

"senseless wars and once he was in office and privy to the terrorist threats" - So its okay that we invaded a sovereign COUNTRY and KILLED hundreds of thousands of people because there was a terrorist threat from this country that had NOTHING to do with 9/11, invading us, threatening us, NOTHING! So now that he is "privy" we can invade ANOTHER (Afghanistan) country who really had more to do with 9/11 and then ANOTHER country (Libya) because they have some bad guys too and then ANOTHER country (Syria) because they just don't act right. Do you really still believe this sh*t works??!!

"we live in a dangerous world and deal with threats all the time" - EXACTELY my point, they are called LIES, i.e. a traitor for a president.

"It's not as simple as you think it is" - Really? I think a humans right to personal liberty is as simple as it DOES get. What makes it complicated is this world that you are accepting without question, a life full of listening/believing lies and then following these lies causing REAL peoples lives to change dramatically, i.e. loss of life and limb, you can count me out of that crap!!!