Southern Baptist Church Assn Expels churches with Female Pastors
- Thread starter okclem
- Start date
One of the many reasons that I'm a proud Episcopalian.
I don't have a problem with the decision, nor do I have any issues with a woman being an ordained minister. I don't agree with churches (or any entity) that are members of a greater organization and knowingly violating the bylaws. If you want to ordain a woman - then go through a process to leave the organization first, then perform the ordination OR try to change the bylaws. The two churches in question forced the hand of the Southern Baptist Association.
How magnanimous of you. They forced the church's hand because every legitimate attempt they made to change the bylaws was rebuffed, because Jesus.
The Southern Baptist Denomination is in a really tough spot. One of the churches was Rick Warrens church that was one of the few Southern Baptist churches that was actually growing. The denomination is shrinking pretty rapidly, but they really have no option but to double down since the majority are very conservative.
Without getting too far in the weeds, the current Southern Baptist Denomination was not traditionally as conservative as they are now, it was taken over in the 1980's by a group of Assembly of God churches under the guise of being "Traditionalist". It's really sad to watch it happen.
My Grandfather was a Southern Baptist preacher and I was raised, baptised, and attended a Southern Baptist Affiliated college. I left the church officially this year, but had really left many years ago. I just couldn't reconcile my beliefs from study and my understanding of the Biblical Jesus with the exclusion and sometimes hatred of the SBC. I also, as a musician, absolutely detest the Contemporary Worship music. Most of this is flat garbage.
I found my Church home in the Episcopal church.
I'm well aware of the history here and fully believe in woman as ordained ministers. I'm just not a fan of knowingly violating bylaws in an organization members swore to uphold.
You're so forward thinking to give women your blessing to be ordained ministers like that.
I understand your point, but the one of the key tennets of the SBC is the Autonomy of the Local Church. One of the strengths traditionally was that they were affiliated as a convention mainly for Missionary work, the political arm really didn't start to happen until the 1980's.
I spent the first 40 years of my life in Southern Baptist churches and the last 10 as a United Methodist. I have read "Purpose Driven Life" several times and admire Rick Warren, far more so than the Southern Baptist Association, which has become too political (as you stated).
I'll always be a church-goer as I'm a firm believer in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, but I won't attend any church that engages in politics. The decline of churches in this country is solely due to their adoption of political leaders as agents of societal change instead of allowing Jesus to guide the decisions.
For me it's about a welcoming environment, a pastor/priest who is smart,learned, and teaches me something, and the music.
I am a big fan of David Phelps, the tenor from the Gaither Vocal Band. He has a song that starts with this line ,"Forget what you've heard about Jesus if it doesn't start and end with love". That pretty well sums up what I want from my church.
I just caught that you are a Member of Methodist Church. Have you been effected by the recent political drama in the United Methodist denomination?
Oh man you ain't lyin about that contemporary worship music. It's worse than contemporary country music.
Happy for you and your journey. It isn’t easy….. when you actually are a principled individual.
Something that “positively” came out of COVID for me:
“Follow the science, not scientist.”
It was a healthy reminder to trust in your own rational, healthy natured pursuit.
“Follow the teachings, not the teacher.”
“Follow the politics, not the politicians.”
“Follow the facts, not the analysts.”
I asked my MSNBC obsessed MIL a simple question: “Name me a host on this channel or CNN or FoxNews that you can identify as a role model for your grandchildren?”
(She was speechless and of course pissed at me.)
“Then turn it off. We need a proper zealot revolution. All these either hateful, envious, oppressive media, faith based, political factions do nothing else but blast fear and ownership over their audience and flock. And for what? To try to keep people engaged or enraged. Our world is TOO INFORMED in the 21st century. There’s a lot bodies buried and skeletons in the closet. Ruling by fear and ancient deliverance just drives people away.
Your grandson spends his days watching science videos because it’s honest. He’s 14 and tired of the bullshit already. How about serving up some Grace, honesty and fvcking leading people with some truth…… and turn that shit off for your own anxiety.”
I see what you are saying for sure. I do think that they've tried to get this worked on before with no success, so I think after a while you just do it and let the chips fall where they may...
As for kicking the Mega Church out... Kinda like the Rock and Roll hall of fame kicking out the Beatles.
In the middle of it right now.
It' sad - but just like the subject of this thread, it all centers on groups of churches not adhering to the Book of Discipline, which is the agreed upon bylaws that bind all UMC denominations. FWIW - I believe this is more important in the UMC than Southern Baptist churches due to the nature of assigning pastors by the Bishop.
I am typically not a fan of the Mega Church/ Non denomination churches. Had an experience with one of the originals in the Chicago Area in High School called Willowcreek Community Church and then went to college with the founders of Newspring including Perry Noble. That said, Rick Warren and Saddleback seemed ok and I can't think of any big drama off the top of my head. Seems like the SBC would have tried to find some sort of compromise.
Yeah. I have some friends who have been affected pretty deeply who atten Buncombe Street in Greenville. It's just sad no matter which side you fall on.
On the plus side, my Church continues to grow. The message of love and acceptance still resonates.
I asked one of my music professors in college in 1998 what he thought of Praise and Worship music since it was becoming very widespread. His quote was ," It's shaky childish Doctrine with a backbeat"
Yes it does, my friend.
My church has been growing at all age levels for years because people still crave a message that changes lives. Jesus can do it, if we just get out of His way.
Love and acceptance are two totally different things. What are they “accepting” of?
That people aren't perfect. Episcopalians are more liberal than most denominations.
I get that. You mentioned your church is “accepting”, I was just curious what you were alluding to
I think some of you busy-bodies need to read the Bible.
Oh....not for evangelistic sake. No, no...not going there.
But for this topic?
Pretty clear.
Now whether you want to believe the Bible is God's (you know him, right) handbook and authority, well that would taint your opinion.
But opinions are like...everyone has them.
Those in Heaven and Hell have them. Just much more vivid and reflective.
Oh....not for evangelistic sake. No, no...not going there.
But for this topic?
Pretty clear.
Now whether you want to believe the Bible is God's (you know him, right) handbook and authority, well that would taint your opinion.
But opinions are like...everyone has them.
Those in Heaven and Hell have them. Just much more vivid and reflective.
