Sweden beating Covid...

[gregorycarlisle]

https://news.yahoo.com/swedens-coronavirus-death-toll-now-130000568.html

btw the business insider is owned by Bezos so this is not a message from the right.

 

[TigerTC]

How can the death toll approach zero when people are already dead?

Is that you, Lazarus?

 

[Cocks are Number 1]

How can the death toll approach zero when people are already dead?

Is that you, Lazarus?

Daily... death toll.

 

[ChicagoTiger85]

Also, from two days ago: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/07/business/sweden-economy-coronavirus.html

 

[TigerTC]

Daily... death toll.

The headlines didn’t say anything about a daily death toll.

Nor did it say anything about Sweden beating COVID.

 

[TigerTC]

Also, from two days ago: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/07/business/sweden-economy-coronavirus.html

OP’s subject line is a lie. A stupid lie.

 

[gregorycarlisle]

OP’s subject line is a lie. A stupid lie.

OP’s subject line is a lie. A stupid lie.

Trending Herd Immunity my friend. The other approach.

 

[Cocks are Number 1]

OP’s subject line is a lie. A stupid lie.

Settle down.

 

[TigerTC]

Trending Herd Immunity my friend. The other approach.

Did you even read the article you posted?


But that's not even close to being achieved: Tegnell said in June that "the trends in immunity have been surprisingly slow." One study then showed 6.1% of Sweden's population had developed antibodies by late May.

It's the same for other countries, where only a small proportion of the population appear to have achieved the immunity, and experts say immunity may not even last that long.

 

[clemsontiger02]

A new, peer-reviewed study from Spain (one of the hardest-hit countries) addresses the concept of herd immunity.

61,000 people were tested for antibodies, and the results indicate that 95% of their population is still vulnerable to the virus. That's nowhere close to the numbers needed for large-scale immunity. Most of the population appears to have remained unexposed to Covid-19, "even in areas with widespread virus circulation."

"In light of these findings, any proposed approach to achieve herd immunity through natural infection is not only highly unethical, but also unachievable," said the Lancet's commentary authors, Isabella Eckerle, head of the Geneva Centre for Emerging Viral Diseases, and Benjamin Meyer, a virologist at the University of Geneva.

 

[Cocks are Number 1]

A new, peer-reviewed study from Spain (one of the hardest-hit countries) addresses the concept of herd immunity.

61,000 people were tested for antibodies, and the results indicate that 95% of their population is still vulnerable to the virus. That's nowhere close to the numbers needed for large-scale immunity. Most of the population appears to have remained unexposed to Covid-19, "even in areas with widespread virus circulation."

"In light of these findings, any proposed approach to achieve herd immunity through natural infection is not only highly unethical, but also unachievable," said the Lancet's commentary authors, Isabella Eckerle, head of the Geneva Centre for Emerging Viral Diseases, and Benjamin Meyer, a virologist at the University of Geneva.

I don’t agree with many of your opinions, but you’re a reasonable guy. In posting this, what are you suggesting? Sit at home and watch America crumble? Young folks are handling this as if it’s a cold or the flu. There’s outliers, certainly... as there are in all things. Those at true risk should take precautions, but life’s gotta go on.

 

[gregorycarlisle]

A new, peer-reviewed study from Spain (one of the hardest-hit countries) addresses the concept of herd immunity.

61,000 people were tested for antibodies, and the results indicate that 95% of their population is still vulnerable to the virus. That's nowhere close to the numbers needed for large-scale immunity. Most of the population appears to have remained unexposed to Covid-19, "even in areas with widespread virus circulation."

"In light of these findings, any proposed approach to achieve herd immunity through natural infection is not only highly unethical, but also unachievable," said the Lancet's commentary authors, Isabella Eckerle, head of the Geneva Centre for Emerging Viral Diseases, and Benjamin Meyer, a virologist at the University of Geneva.

Yet the death rate goes down. This is a statistic, a measurement. And it is not an proposed approach in Sweden, it is the approach.

So keep hoping these vaccines. That SARs vaccine sure did wonders

 

[Cocks are Number 1]

Yet the death rate goes down. This is a statistic, a measurement. And it is not an proposed approach in Sweden, it is the approach.

So keep hoping these vaccines. That SARs vaccine sure did wonders

The truth is, Sweden faced it head on, and its old/unhealthy population took the brunt of CV19, and they can now move on.

 

[AustinTiger77]

“The elevated death toll resulting from Sweden’s approach has been clear for many weeks. What is only now emerging is how Sweden, despite letting its economy run unimpeded, has still suffered business-destroying, prosperity-diminishing damage, and at nearly the same magnitude of its neighbors.

Sweden’s central bank expects its economy to contract by 4.5 percent this year, a revision from a previously expected gain of 1.3 percent. The unemployment rate jumped to 9 percent in May from 7.1 percent in March. “The overall damage to the economy means the recovery will be protracted, with unemployment remaining elevated,” Oxford Economics concluded in a recent research note.

This is more or less how damage caused by the pandemic has played out in Denmark, where the central bankexpects that the economy will shrink 4.1 percent this year, and where joblessness has edged up to 5.6 percent in May from 4.1 percent in March.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/07/business/sweden-economy-coronavirus.html

 

[clemsontiger02]

I don’t agree with many of your opinions, but you’re a reasonable guy. In posting this, what are you suggesting? Sit at home and watch America crumble?

No. Not at all. We have to find a way to live with this thing because it's not going away any time soon. I'm not pro-lockdown, I'm against misinformation.

The study I posted, and the article from the OP, show a similar 5%-6% rate of antibodies found in these populations. That's nowhere close to achieved levels of herd immunity. I think we just need to realize how far away we are from that point.

We've had incidents of disease and mass death at times across human history, but never in modern times like these. Our society isn't prepared for the reality of what it's going to take to get to the other side of this.

There are literally no good answers. Let this bug run free and we'll have overwhelmed health care systems and significant death. Keep the world closed and millions will never dig themselves out of debt and financial ruin. And don't get me started on what this time away from school is doing to our kids.

Anyone claiming a simple fix, whether it's "stay indoors until there's a vaccine" or "go back to normal life and treat this like the flu" is not dealing in reality, IMO. There has to be some middle ground, and I hope it's based in science and logic.

 

[anon_yqoaxol227dby]

As I said in probably my first or second post about COVID, attempting to achieve herd immunity is a terrible and illogical approach. It’s not really attainable in practice, but yet many people on here think it’s the magic solution to this issue. It’s like people hear words but don’t know how to contextualize them.

 

[gregorycarlisle]

“The elevated death toll resulting from Sweden’s approach has been clear for many weeks. What is only now emerging is how Sweden, despite letting its economy run unimpeded, has still suffered business-destroying, prosperity-diminishing damage, and at nearly the same magnitude of its neighbors.

Sweden’s central bank expects its economy to contract by 4.5 percent this year, a revision from a previously expected gain of 1.3 percent. The unemployment rate jumped to 9 percent in May from 7.1 percent in March. “The overall damage to the economy means the recovery will be protracted, with unemployment remaining elevated,” Oxford Economics concluded in a recent research note.

This is more or less how damage caused by the pandemic has played out in Denmark, where the central bankexpects that the economy will shrink 4.1 percent this year, and where joblessness has edged up to 5.6 percent in May from 4.1 percent in March.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/07/business/sweden-economy-coronavirus.html

Is Sweden not a net exporter? Specifically Autos but also others hard goods? Ever drive a Danish car?

Danes have a domestic economy relative to Sweden. Much more isolated. And hence insulated. Sweden is much more affected by the global turndown.

ps we are in the 13% range for unemployment and I think it’s drastically under counted.

 

[wmnesbitt]

Pretty sure that no matter what the world does this thing will take lives for the foreseeable future. Just like the Flu.

just need everyone to agree on what the proper treatment is when hospitalized. Pretty sure we will all agree on Nov 5th.

 

[AustinTiger77]

No. Not at all. We have to find a way to live with this thing because it's not going away any time soon. I'm not pro-lockdown, I'm against misinformation.

The study I posted, and the article from the OP, show a similar 5%-6% rate of antibodies found in these populations. That's nowhere close to achieved levels of herd immunity. I think we just need to realize how far away we are from that point.

We've had incidents of disease and mass death at times across human history, but never in modern times like these. Our society isn't prepared for the reality of what it's going to take to get to the other side of this.

There are literally no good answers. Let this bug run free and we'll have overwhelmed health care systems and significant death. Keep the world closed and millions will never dig themselves out of debt and financial ruin. And don't get me started on what this time away from school is doing to our kids.

Anyone claiming a simple fix, whether it's "stay indoors until there's a vaccine" or "go back to normal life and treat this like the flu" is not dealing in reality, IMO. There has to be some middle ground, and I hope it's based in science and logic.

Thanks for the level headed, clear eyed response. This has been more or less my take on the situation since early March, once it became clear that community spread was already in full effect. I suspect the answer to the “how we cope” with this will involve those who can, working from & having groceries/supplies delivered. Those who can’t do that, will be forced to go out and brave it & possibly “take one for the team.” No good options until there’s a vaccine or/and good treatment.

 

[gregorycarlisle]

Does anyone remembers how SARS went away? (effectively)

it weakened and vanished (effectively).

Did it weaken when passed from host to host? Could that not be a rational answer here?

The MSM only talks infections now, seldom about mortality. Follow the money. They see it.

 

[anon_yqoaxol227dby]

Does anyone remembers how SARS went away? (effectively)

it weakened and vanished (effectively).

Did it weaken when passed from host to host? Could that not be a rational answer here?

The MSM only talks infections now, seldom about mortality. Follow the money. They see it.

it basically went away because the mortality rate was so high , the vector didn’t last long enough to sustain effective and widespread transmission. It also didn’t pop up really in less sophisticated countries where health care infrastructure is dilapidated, at least compared to the degree and ubiquity that COVID has appeared in many third world countries. There was also an aggressive Public health measure early and swiftly , where tests were plentiful and people were screened and isolated early. From a microbiological standpoint, the sars virus mostly replicated in the lower respiratory tract, and this made it challenging for it to be easily transmissible. People with sars weren’t really contagious until they were very ill - with COVID , transmission occurs among people with little to no symptoms. And again Viruses spread most when they are very contagious and not that deadly. If a virus is very lethal, patients often die before they can transmit the illness to many other people. This was the case with SARS.

So all that being said, id step away from the conspiracy theory , even though it sounds convenient and requires less thought and research to come to a conclusion

 

[dfrctigersc]

The problem for the argument against herd immunity is that since the beginning of time its been happening. What's not happened is it not happening, lol. So which one is the conspiracy theory? That herd immunity is a factor for viruses or that this is the big one that herd immunity can't happen with?

In terms of immunity and how much of a factor it actually is, I'm sure most of you have heard of remote villages being wiped out from the common cold due to a lack of immunity.

 

[dfrctigersc]

Oh, and I am definitely not suggesting that we try and spread it around by not using common sense to make it happen faster.

 

[MojitoJoe]

Apparently.... there is some T cell immunity from CV19 according to this study from Sweden...

"Advanced analyses have now enabled us to map in detail the T-cell response during and after a COVID-19 infection. Our results indicate that roughly twice as many people have developed T-cell immunity compared with those who we can detect antibodies in."

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020...719Y5j6AdE21gmRPKYvO_QmeaYWc-k5vHLE9l0T9Apio8

 

[GamecockTears]

Daily... death toll.

Just sounds to me like they didn’t incentivize their hospitals to put Covid on death records like our brilliant leaders did.

 

[BigTimeTiger]

Pretty sure that no matter what the world does this thing will take lives for the foreseeable future. Just like the Flu.

just need everyone to agree on what the proper treatment is when hospitalized. Pretty sure we will all agree on Nov 5th.

a little bump in daily death numbers has the left all giddy. lol truly sad. November can’t get here fast enough.

PS the curve is still flat and that was always the goal.

 

[Tiger1425]

https://news.yahoo.com/swedens-coronavirus-death-toll-now-130000568.html

btw the business insider is owned by Bezos so this is not a message from the right.

Sweden WAS beating the virus. But, that is no longer true. You can only pull the tail of the dragon for so long.

 

[BAnksMcFadden]

As I said in probably my first or second post about COVID, attempting to achieve herd immunity is a terrible and illogical approach. It’s not really attainable in practice, but yet many people on here think it’s the magic solution to this issue. It’s like people hear words but don’t know how to contextualize them.

It's the only solution on the table. Give another achievable one besides sitting at home twiddling our dicks for 5 years and everyone will be happy to oblige .

 

[lvilletiger]

Anyone claiming a simple fix, whether it's "stay indoors until there's a vaccine" or "go back to normal life and treat this like the flu" is not dealing in reality, IMO. There has to be some middle ground, and I hope it's based in science and logic.

Spot on! As for middle ground, it has become a tiny island in a vast ocean. I don't see that changing unless a lot of people soften their hearts and open their minds.

 

[gregorycarlisle]

I would like an update from someone close to the recent uptick in Clemson within the student body there in the summer. My son and about 25 of his frat bro’s were part of that and they all beat it with Tylenol. Not one was hospitalized. But this is anecdotal.

anybody close to this?

 

[Earle36]

I would like an update from someone close to the recent uptick in Clemson within the student body there in the summer. My son and about 25 of his frat bro’s were part of that and they all beat it with Tylenol. Not one was hospitalized. But this is anecdotal.

anybody close to this?

I still don’t know a soul who has the Kung Flu, much less hospitalized. I’m sure it affects some people bad, just like the flu can put people in the hospital.

 

[michael1981]

https://news.yahoo.com/swedens-coronavirus-death-toll-now-130000568.html

btw the business insider is owned by Bezos so this is not a message from the right.

You might want to read The NY Times article sited below your post which states that the economy essentially received no benefits while simultaneously suffering thousands of more deaths and more deaths per capita than the surrounding countries

 

[Cocks are Number 1]

You might want to read The NY Times article sited below your post which states that the economy essentially received no benefits while simultaneously suffering thousands of more deaths and more deaths per capita than the surrounding countries

And now it’s over for Sweden. While surrounding countries will have longer lasting effects. Time will tell.

 

[Watson to Renfrow]

Spot the f’ing ball

 

[anon_yqoaxol227dby]

It's the only solution on the table. Give another achievable one besides sitting at home twiddling our dicks for 5 years and everyone will be happy to oblige .

Lol “it’s the only solution on the table”. Yeah no. It’s not a solution.

The achievable one currently is called frequent testing and isolating if highly suspicious symptoms or positive test and wearing a mask. And then waiting for a vaccine.

 

[anon_yqoaxol227dby]

The problem for the argument against herd immunity is that since the beginning of time its been happening. What's not happened is it not happening, lol. So which one is the conspiracy theory? That herd immunity is a factor for viruses or that this is the big one that herd immunity can't happen with?

In terms of immunity and how much of a factor it actually is, I'm sure most of you have heard of remote villages being wiped out from the common cold due to a lack of immunity.

Your post lacks so much context and leaves out so many important facts that it makes my head hurt.

 

[michael1981]

And now it’s over for Sweden. While surrounding countries will have longer lasting effects. Time will tell.

Not according to the article he sited. Read it. They don’t have herd immunity. The article says 6.1% of the population has antibodies which is roughly the same as the surrounding countries. So they are no better off than Norway or Denmark. You need about 60% of the population to develop antibodies/individual immunity in order for a population to develop herd immunity to the best of my recollection. Many more deaths, no financial benefit, and no herd immunity. The yahoo article also says that part of the reason for the drop in cases may due to social distancing caused by kids being out of schools and families going on vacation to rural parts of the country.

 

[TigerDentGuy]

Awesome another covid thread. So what's everyone thinking today?

Spoiler

Two more weeks?

 

[Cocks are Number 1]

Not according to the article he sited. Read it. They don’t have herd immunity. The article says 6.1% of the population has antibodies which is roughly the same as the surrounding countries. So they are no better off than Norway or Denmark. You need about 60% of the population to develop herd immunity to the best of my recollection. Many more deaths, no financial benefit, and no herd immunity. The yahoo article also says that part of the reason for the drop in cases may due to social distancing caused by kids being out of schools and families going on vacation to rural parts of the country.

Time will tell.

 

[kidmike41]

The headlines didn’t say anything about a daily death toll.

Nor did it say anything about Sweden beating COVID.

Read the article not the headline. Goodness!