The Fascist Roots of the American Left
- Thread starter TigerRagRob
- Start date
I can’t take anyone who attempts to make fascism a left wing ideology seriously. It shows a lack of understanding of what fascism actually is as a philosophy and means the person making the argument is either not educated on the subject or, as is likely the case here, making an argument in bad faith.
The word “socialism” does not make something inherently left wing, and its fine to argue that socialism in any form is bad if you want to make that argument, but you must be willing to recognize that there is right wing socialism and left wing socialism and there’s a clear difference in the philosophies that guide them.
its always been on the left and was invented by Marxist back in the 1920's in Italy. Understand socialism is to the right of communism. But its far left of conservatives in America. Conservatives dont want a strong central gov to control everything but would like more power in the local/state areas. That central power is at the core of fascism. Without that you dont have fascism...
No, what you’re referring to is classic liberalism. Conservatism as a philosophy has very little to do with the size of central government and more to do with preserving traditional institutions and value structures and has traditionally supported preserving those institutions through authoritarianism if necessary.
Communism does not seek a strong central government, in fact communism seeks to abolish government altogether. “Socialism” as a term is not left wing or right wing, there are many different types of socialism across the political spectrum, with Fascism being the furthest right wing version of it.
In the United States, “socialism” has come to refer specifically to ideas that are largely supported by the left wing of American politicians, but that is, again, only a type of socialism which is more closely linked to Social Democracy. ”socialism” as a general term doesn’t really mean a lot until you start quantifying it as democratic socialism or national socialism or utopian socialism or market socialism etc.
To say you can’t have fascism without socialism is like saying you can’t have rattlesnakes without snakes. Well no shit. But there’s a pretty obvious difference between a rattlesnake and, say, a Corn snake. To just say “socialism” is like just saying “there’s a snake over there.” Well, just saying “snake” really doesn’t tell me anything about what kind of snake it is.
Don't bring actual knowledge to this discussion, he only knows YouTube videos from right wing sites. This is gonna mess him all up.
No, you just don't have a clue what you are talking about. You are just flat wrong.
you have always said this but yet so many times it was you that was wrong. Besides I dont look at pedo defenders as being honest moral people...
The alliance between large corporations with big tech in particular and the establishment govt uniparty to oppress and control Americans is absolutely fascism in every sense. It has dem and repub facilitators but in general it seems to benefit dems a lot more. This is not even opinion anymore, but established fact.
The Right is giving a master class on fascism in red states. Watch this local news report on how things work in the Tennessee good ole boy house. This should chill you to the bone.
This is not fascism by definition. Examples of fascism is what was exposed in the twitter files for instance where govt used tech monopolies to either suppress or endorse certain viewpoints as their proxy. What you are showing here is just the innerworkings of govt itself and not in concert with the private sector at all.
You do not know what fascism is.
You do not know what fascism is...LOL! US govt colluding with tech giants to do things they cannot directly do constitutionally is a textbook example of fascism.
The concept of fascism is dependent on the merger of corporations with the state. The power inherent in government is combined with corporate power. This brings the majority of power in a nation under a small group of individuals. This is known as an oligarchy. It is this combination of government and corporations that truly defines the concept of fascism.
Do not think America has some components of an oligarchy?
It’s Official: America Is an Oligarchy
The Congressional Budget Office confirms that the rich exponentially increased their share of America’s wealth over the past 30 years.
www.thenation.com
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This article lays it out for you.
What Is Corporate Fascism? Is the US Government a Fascist Form of Government?
- REALITY BYTES
- OCT 14, 2022 12:48 PM EDT
Learning about corporate fascism.
Canva
What Is a Fascist Government?
The concept of a fascist government began in the early 20th century in Italy. Italy did not specifically label its government model as fascist—in Italy, it was known as "corporatism". Americans have been taught that the effect of fascism is fascism. They are not taught to understand the structure of a corporatist (fascist) form of government, also known as corporate fascism.The concept of fascism is dependent on the merger of corporations with the state. The power inherent in government is combined with corporate power. This brings the majority of power in a nation under a small group of individuals. This is known as an oligarchy. It is this combination of government and corporations that truly defines the concept of fascism.
In America, we often perceive fascism as when the government takes control of corporations. What eludes our knowledge is just the opposite. It is possible for corporations to appropriate the authority of the government. It is this type of activity that is unseen by the majority of Americans.
Europeans know full well the horror of fascist governance, having been forced to live through the bloodiest era of the 20th century within their borders. Americans are being warned by foreign powers that the government of the US is being transformed in to a corporate fascist form of government!
How Can You Tell if a Government Is Fascist?
One of the easiest ways to identify fascism is by the actions of the government. Whether it is the Chief Executive, the Congress, or the Judicial branch of government, when government takes actions to protect the power of corporations, this is a step towards fascism.When it becomes obvious that corporations hold more sway over the government than that of the people, this is a step toward fascism. It is the combination of corporate and government authority. When it becomes difficult to separate the power of government from the power of corporations, this is a step toward fascism.
Another symptom of corporate fascism is the erosion of individual rights. When corporate rights are expanded, they trample the rights of the individual. When seen form this perspective, it becomes easier to identify the eruption of corporate fascism.
What Steps Are Taken When a Government Is Being Transformed Into a Fascist Government?
Within the Judicial branch of government, the individual can seek recourse from corporate harm in the court system. America, in recent decisions, has passed numerous laws, rules and court decisions for the purpose of protecting corporations and limiting the rights of the individual.These legal decisions and legislation are passed under the assumption that the nation's priority should be to protect corporate profit—even if this profit comes at the expense of limiting the rights of the individual.
Another side effect of fascism is the creation of an invisible enemy. An invisible enemy is identified in order to unify the nation in an imaginary struggle against fictitious threats. Usually, these fictitious threats are created by the government itself. Using the method of "Problem + Reaction = Solution", the government creates a problem for the purpose of inciting the people to create a reaction. Once there is a reaction, the government presents the "solution" it has wanted all along.
What Is an Invisible Enemy?
If the government creates a terrorist "threat", the population becomes afraid of this threat. Then, the government passes drastic security laws, telling the population it is for their protection. It is not impossible for the government to place itself as a threat to the people—anything is possible when discussing corporate profit!
It matters not what disguise this fictitious entity takes. All that matters is that a perceived threat is established and accepted. A scapegoat is necessary for the government to hastily get legislation passed in order to protect the profits of the corporations. When this is realized, the rise of the fascist state becomes immediately visible.
Labor Unions and the Military
Here are some other things to look for in a government on its path toward corporate fascism:Suppressing Labor Unions
The power of labor unions is reduced. It is imperative for a corporatist government to control the labor force of its corporations. Labor unions have traditionally opposed the power of the corporate world; therefore, they are a threat to the profit margin of corporations.An Increase in Military Power
There are huge profits to be made in waging war. During corporate fascism, it becomes necessary to involve the nation's military in conflicts spanning the globe. Even if the nation is not directly involved, the corporations that produce war machines receive large profits by selling their death machines to other nations. It is not impossible for the corporate fascist government to create these conflicts for the sole reason of creating more customers!We Elect Our Representatives in Legal Elections
An increase in government corruption is based on allowing corporate figures to move in and out of government positions. When corporate leaders are appointed to government positions within their line of business, they have the ability to alter government rules for the benefit of their corporation. These individuals will hold a government position long enough to maintain benefits for their corporate structure. Once accomplished, these individuals simply slide back into their corporate positions with a greater ability to increase profits.More Patriotism
Corporate fascist governments create the illusion that their nation is superior to all others. This is especially if a foreign nation is pursuing an increase in the rights of the individual.Security Measures That Scare the People
By using fear of the unknown, a police state is silently installed; the people believe that the increased security is for their protection, not oppression. Not until it is too late do the people realize that a prison system has been erected around them!Slave Labor in Prisons
When leaders speak of becoming stricter on crime, it is so that they can put corporate dissenters in detention. Another purpose of creating more detainees is to satisfy the need of the corporations to maintain their slave labor camps within the prison system.Once it is accepted that punishment for minor offenses should include time in prison, the population becomes much easier to control because they have a fear of the repercussions of even exercising their freedom of speech. The laws will increase to include crimes that any individual may commit.
Intellectuals and Artists Are Held in Contempt
This is done because these individuals are usually the first to point out the heinous actions of the government. This creates a threat to the corporatists, as they dislike any mention of the atrocities they commit. Any dissension is quickly suppressed in a corporate fascist nation. Scholars and artists are eager to form protests to petition the government for a redress of their grievances. However, protests are quickly subdued when a government is formed from a fascist model!How Can We Stop Fascism?
History does not provide examples of a nation shedding the introduction of fascism once it has begun. When fascism began to spread throughout Europe, every nation succumbed without much resistance. The only example that could be studied is that of the French prior to their revolution.The French people found themselves being governed by a very small number of individuals that successfully combined the power of financial elites with that of their government. The end result is very similar to current circumstances in the United States: Power is being consolidated amongst a very small group of people.
Could This Result in Bloody Conflicts?
The easiest and fastest way to halt this aggressive slide toward corporate fascism is to starve the beast. The greatest insult to the American people is that these fascist actions taken by the government are being funded by the wealth of the people. By limiting the amount of revenue the federal government can confiscate from the people, we can also limit the amount of tyrannical legislation they will be able to fund! This is why the people need to expose the outrageous level of fines and penalties the government can force its population to pay. The raising of taxes also needs to be avoided. Using the people's wealth to oppress them is just outright wrong; it is unjust, and it needs to stop by whatever means necessary.The way that the people of France eliminated their oligarchical government was by terminating the lives of the powerful elites. It was an era of history wrought with bloodshed. The people, unable to tolerate any more injustice from their government, systematically executed them. Not that bloodshed is the suggested resolution to the current problems within the United States, but the government should have some aspect of fear of these types of repercussions.
The government does live in fear of the people. This is why they are spending the wealth of the people to prepare for any type of violent protests. Rather than representing the will of the people, these fascists hold no trepidation to beat the people down if they attempt to force the government to cease and desist the onslaught of fascist governance! Violence is an abhorrent way to resolve conflicts, and it should never come to a situation like this. The people of the United States need to wake up, educate themselves, and resist. Resist peacefully, but resist, we must!
A Violent Revolution Would Be Horrible
No one wants to have a violent revolution in the United States, especially when the violence of the French revolution is used as an example of what happens when the grievances of the people are not addressed.Prior to World War II and even during the conflict, many wealthy and corporate Americans fully supported the idea of a fascist government. This has not changed much over the years. Recent history shows the same demographic of society supporting the introduction of corporate fascism in the US government.
The United States of America played an integral part in stopping fascism in Europe. However, if the same government is formed in America, not only would the population of America be at risk, but all of humanity would be threatened by a corporate fascist US government.
BY
REALITY BYTES
This is such a profound misunderstanding of corporatism that I’m not sure where to even start. When Mussolini talked about corporatism he was not referring to the modern day concept of private corporations and profits. In Fascist corporatism, labor markets are divided into various sectors which are organized by guilds that are managed by the state.This article lays it out for you.
What Is Corporate Fascism? Is the US Government a Fascist Form of Government?
- REALITY BYTES
- OCT 14, 2022 12:48 PM EDT
Learning about corporate fascism.
Canva
What Is a Fascist Government?
The concept of a fascist government began in the early 20th century in Italy. Italy did not specifically label its government model as fascist—in Italy, it was known as "corporatism". Americans have been taught that the effect of fascism is fascism. They are not taught to understand the structure of a corporatist (fascist) form of government, also known as corporate fascism.
The concept of fascism is dependent on the merger of corporations with the state. The power inherent in government is combined with corporate power. This brings the majority of power in a nation under a small group of individuals. This is known as an oligarchy. It is this combination of government and corporations that truly defines the concept of fascism.
In America, we often perceive fascism as when the government takes control of corporations. What eludes our knowledge is just the opposite. It is possible for corporations to appropriate the authority of the government. It is this type of activity that is unseen by the majority of Americans.
Europeans know full well the horror of fascist governance, having been forced to live through the bloodiest era of the 20th century within their borders. Americans are being warned by foreign powers that the government of the US is being transformed in to a corporate fascist form of government!
How Can You Tell if a Government Is Fascist?
One of the easiest ways to identify fascism is by the actions of the government. Whether it is the Chief Executive, the Congress, or the Judicial branch of government, when government takes actions to protect the power of corporations, this is a step towards fascism.
When it becomes obvious that corporations hold more sway over the government than that of the people, this is a step toward fascism. It is the combination of corporate and government authority. When it becomes difficult to separate the power of government from the power of corporations, this is a step toward fascism.
Another symptom of corporate fascism is the erosion of individual rights. When corporate rights are expanded, they trample the rights of the individual. When seen form this perspective, it becomes easier to identify the eruption of corporate fascism.
What Steps Are Taken When a Government Is Being Transformed Into a Fascist Government?
Within the Judicial branch of government, the individual can seek recourse from corporate harm in the court system. America, in recent decisions, has passed numerous laws, rules and court decisions for the purpose of protecting corporations and limiting the rights of the individual.
These legal decisions and legislation are passed under the assumption that the nation's priority should be to protect corporate profit—even if this profit comes at the expense of limiting the rights of the individual.
Another side effect of fascism is the creation of an invisible enemy. An invisible enemy is identified in order to unify the nation in an imaginary struggle against fictitious threats. Usually, these fictitious threats are created by the government itself. Using the method of "Problem + Reaction = Solution", the government creates a problem for the purpose of inciting the people to create a reaction. Once there is a reaction, the government presents the "solution" it has wanted all along.
What Is an Invisible Enemy?
If the government creates a terrorist "threat", the population becomes afraid of this threat. Then, the government passes drastic security laws, telling the population it is for their protection. It is not impossible for the government to place itself as a threat to the people—anything is possible when discussing corporate profit!
It matters not what disguise this fictitious entity takes. All that matters is that a perceived threat is established and accepted. A scapegoat is necessary for the government to hastily get legislation passed in order to protect the profits of the corporations. When this is realized, the rise of the fascist state becomes immediately visible.
Labor Unions and the Military
Here are some other things to look for in a government on its path toward corporate fascism:
Suppressing Labor Unions
The power of labor unions is reduced. It is imperative for a corporatist government to control the labor force of its corporations. Labor unions have traditionally opposed the power of the corporate world; therefore, they are a threat to the profit margin of corporations.
An Increase in Military Power
There are huge profits to be made in waging war. During corporate fascism, it becomes necessary to involve the nation's military in conflicts spanning the globe. Even if the nation is not directly involved, the corporations that produce war machines receive large profits by selling their death machines to other nations. It is not impossible for the corporate fascist government to create these conflicts for the sole reason of creating more customers!
We Elect Our Representatives in Legal Elections
An increase in government corruption is based on allowing corporate figures to move in and out of government positions. When corporate leaders are appointed to government positions within their line of business, they have the ability to alter government rules for the benefit of their corporation. These individuals will hold a government position long enough to maintain benefits for their corporate structure. Once accomplished, these individuals simply slide back into their corporate positions with a greater ability to increase profits.
More Patriotism
Corporate fascist governments create the illusion that their nation is superior to all others. This is especially if a foreign nation is pursuing an increase in the rights of the individual.
Security Measures That Scare the People
By using fear of the unknown, a police state is silently installed; the people believe that the increased security is for their protection, not oppression. Not until it is too late do the people realize that a prison system has been erected around them!
Slave Labor in Prisons
When leaders speak of becoming stricter on crime, it is so that they can put corporate dissenters in detention. Another purpose of creating more detainees is to satisfy the need of the corporations to maintain their slave labor camps within the prison system.
Once it is accepted that punishment for minor offenses should include time in prison, the population becomes much easier to control because they have a fear of the repercussions of even exercising their freedom of speech. The laws will increase to include crimes that any individual may commit.
Intellectuals and Artists Are Held in Contempt
This is done because these individuals are usually the first to point out the heinous actions of the government. This creates a threat to the corporatists, as they dislike any mention of the atrocities they commit. Any dissension is quickly suppressed in a corporate fascist nation. Scholars and artists are eager to form protests to petition the government for a redress of their grievances. However, protests are quickly subdued when a government is formed from a fascist model!
How Can We Stop Fascism?
History does not provide examples of a nation shedding the introduction of fascism once it has begun. When fascism began to spread throughout Europe, every nation succumbed without much resistance. The only example that could be studied is that of the French prior to their revolution.
The French people found themselves being governed by a very small number of individuals that successfully combined the power of financial elites with that of their government. The end result is very similar to current circumstances in the United States: Power is being consolidated amongst a very small group of people.
Could This Result in Bloody Conflicts?
The easiest and fastest way to halt this aggressive slide toward corporate fascism is to starve the beast. The greatest insult to the American people is that these fascist actions taken by the government are being funded by the wealth of the people. By limiting the amount of revenue the federal government can confiscate from the people, we can also limit the amount of tyrannical legislation they will be able to fund! This is why the people need to expose the outrageous level of fines and penalties the government can force its population to pay. The raising of taxes also needs to be avoided. Using the people's wealth to oppress them is just outright wrong; it is unjust, and it needs to stop by whatever means necessary.
The way that the people of France eliminated their oligarchical government was by terminating the lives of the powerful elites. It was an era of history wrought with bloodshed. The people, unable to tolerate any more injustice from their government, systematically executed them. Not that bloodshed is the suggested resolution to the current problems within the United States, but the government should have some aspect of fear of these types of repercussions.
The government does live in fear of the people. This is why they are spending the wealth of the people to prepare for any type of violent protests. Rather than representing the will of the people, these fascists hold no trepidation to beat the people down if they attempt to force the government to cease and desist the onslaught of fascist governance! Violence is an abhorrent way to resolve conflicts, and it should never come to a situation like this. The people of the United States need to wake up, educate themselves, and resist. Resist peacefully, but resist, we must!
A Violent Revolution Would Be Horrible
No one wants to have a violent revolution in the United States, especially when the violence of the French revolution is used as an example of what happens when the grievances of the people are not addressed.
Prior to World War II and even during the conflict, many wealthy and corporate Americans fully supported the idea of a fascist government. This has not changed much over the years. Recent history shows the same demographic of society supporting the introduction of corporate fascism in the US government.
The United States of America played an integral part in stopping fascism in Europe. However, if the same government is formed in America, not only would the population of America be at risk, but all of humanity would be threatened by a corporate fascist US government.
BY
REALITY BYTES
Fascism does not require the government to work “in concert” with the private sector. There is no private sector (at least as we know it) in Fascism. Literally everything is of the state, for the state, by the state.
I believe that you are correct in that you’re attempting to describe an oligarchy, and certainly there are fascist elements in an oligarchy and vise versa, but they are not the same thing.
I do think a strong argument can be made that the US is trending towards oligarchy and/or plutocracy. But neither of those things are fascist corporatism.
Nice discussion. Bolded statement you made. There is now imo a dotted line only separation between crucial industries and the govt. Its separate legally of course, but related to communication and coordination channels I think they are operating as one in a lot of cases.
This is the main issue when debating issues with the MAGA crowd on TI. They are stupid, which makes it impossible to have a meaningful discussion with them.
I don’t think you’re necessarily wrong, if I’m understanding your argument correctly, I just don’t think that’s an example of fascism. In a fascist state the government would dictate to the private sector how they should conduct business and would forcibly remove the owners if they didn’t fall in line.
In the US you could argue that the opposite is happening and that the government tends to bend over backwards to accommodate the private sector. That major corporate entities have become so powerful that they can dictate to the government. That lends itself more to oligarchy/plutocracy than fascism.
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anon_5e8aassgcbjz1
Guest
Shame we don't have a time machine to drop you back in fascist Italy or Germany saying you're a Marxist. I'm sure they'd celebrate you.
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anon_5e8aassgcbjz1
Guest
A
anon_5e8aassgcbjz1
Guest
If your basis of argument is, "Anybody who disagrees with me is an idiot," I'm sorry to disappoint. Ted Cruz, for example, is a highly intelligent person who I happen to find a jackass politically.
No. I just do not think you are overly smart based on your bad opinion on many issues.
A
anon_5e8aassgcbjz1
Guest
A
anon_5e8aassgcbjz1
Guest
Come on though. Lol you can disagree with someone without thinking they're an idiot.
in some cases yes depending on what it is and what the specific reasoning is.
