Where was the lie? I don't get this one at all. What I've seen isn't a negotiation, it is just us giving Putin what he wants.
Trump to nominate fox news host as secretary of defense
- Thread starter dbjork6317
- Start date
Exactly. I just can't understand the logic for completely giving Russia everything it wants, with them giving up nothing, for a war that they started.
Why would we force this?
It's probably a little bit too far, but it sure feels shitty to feel like we are becoming part of a new "Axis Allies" of the world.
I'm not trying to be some conspiracy theorist, but I just don't get this one at all. All I see is us giving Russia everything they want, and all Ukraine gets is...not losing MORE land? And for this, they are going to have to also pay us, either in money or rare earth?
I mean no insult. I'm just trying to implore you to makes arguments vice taking cheep shots. I know cheep shots, ad hominems and sniping are the way of the HoP board, but I like to actually "try" to construct cogent arguments so that I might learn something from you all. You do raise some valid points. I'm just politely asking that you stick to them.
K. Was sort of a throwaway comment. Not an ad hominem. And do you disagree? Where have Trump and Putin differed in their recent comments on the situation? The "just happen" is an implication that was a snipe or joke, so I'll take that one.
I will continue to genuinely ask why we are not even trying to gain a single concession from Putin or even at a minimum telling the truth about his actions. It's absolute madness to me.
You may disagree, and I can respect that, but I want an end to our participation in the war quickly. I don't care how it happens. I don't care if some piece of bombed out ground will be called "ukraine" or called "russia" ...I remember when it was all called the USSR... Deep in the USSR. So makes not much of a difference to me.
I get wanting the war to end. I get maybe agreeing to drop all sanctions or something as a boon doggle for Russia to back out. I even get getting them both to the table and at the end of it Russia keeping some of the land. I get all that. I don't want war either.
I do not understand seemingly completely agreeing with Putin. I do not understand not being willing to say it was an invasion. I do not understand calling Zelensky a dictator but not calling Putin one (like, I'd get it diplomatically if you didn't want to call Putin one, but if so, don't first call Zelensky one first).
It just feels like the exact script that Russia would write for our response. I am not saying he is an agent or anything. But I am not sure what else he would be asked to do publicly were he a Russian agent.
Donald Trump's first impeachment trial was because he tried to shakedown Ukraine and they said no. Ukraine shouldn't have to pay us back. Us sending surplus military supplies there is well worth the investment we get back. Trump may not be subordinate to Putin but with enough flattery he'll do what Putin says. If Trump isn't doing what Putin says then why is Trump and his cabinet:
-Now saying Russia didn't invade Ukraine
-Blaming NATO for the invasion (a Russian talking point)
-Giving Ukraine onerous terms for an alliance
-Pullin US and NATO troops out of the Baltic states
-Threatening to pull US troops out of Europe
-Antagonizing our NATO allies
-Talking about financial treaties with Russia
-Weakening AFCON
As per usual, WTF does this have to do with this thread?
Could you seriously, just once, try to bring something of substance to the discussions?
