Where was the lie? I don't get this one at all. What I've seen isn't a negotiation, it is just us giving Putin what he wants.
Trump to nominate fox news host as secretary of defense
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Exactly. I just can't understand the logic for completely giving Russia everything it wants, with them giving up nothing, for a war that they started.
Why would we force this?
It's probably a little bit too far, but it sure feels shitty to feel like we are becoming part of a new "Axis Allies" of the world.
I'm not trying to be some conspiracy theorist, but I just don't get this one at all. All I see is us giving Russia everything they want, and all Ukraine gets is...not losing MORE land? And for this, they are going to have to also pay us, either in money or rare earth?
I mean no insult. I'm just trying to implore you to makes arguments vice taking cheep shots. I know cheep shots, ad hominems and sniping are the way of the HoP board, but I like to actually "try" to construct cogent arguments so that I might learn something from you all. You do raise some valid points. I'm just politely asking that you stick to them.
K. Was sort of a throwaway comment. Not an ad hominem. And do you disagree? Where have Trump and Putin differed in their recent comments on the situation? The "just happen" is an implication that was a snipe or joke, so I'll take that one.
I will continue to genuinely ask why we are not even trying to gain a single concession from Putin or even at a minimum telling the truth about his actions. It's absolute madness to me.
You may disagree, and I can respect that, but I want an end to our participation in the war quickly. I don't care how it happens. I don't care if some piece of bombed out ground will be called "ukraine" or called "russia" ...I remember when it was all called the USSR... Deep in the USSR. So makes not much of a difference to me.
I get wanting the war to end. I get maybe agreeing to drop all sanctions or something as a boon doggle for Russia to back out. I even get getting them both to the table and at the end of it Russia keeping some of the land. I get all that. I don't want war either.
I do not understand seemingly completely agreeing with Putin. I do not understand not being willing to say it was an invasion. I do not understand calling Zelensky a dictator but not calling Putin one (like, I'd get it diplomatically if you didn't want to call Putin one, but if so, don't first call Zelensky one first).
It just feels like the exact script that Russia would write for our response. I am not saying he is an agent or anything. But I am not sure what else he would be asked to do publicly were he a Russian agent.
Donald Trump's first impeachment trial was because he tried to shakedown Ukraine and they said no. Ukraine shouldn't have to pay us back. Us sending surplus military supplies there is well worth the investment we get back. Trump may not be subordinate to Putin but with enough flattery he'll do what Putin says. If Trump isn't doing what Putin says then why is Trump and his cabinet:
-Now saying Russia didn't invade Ukraine
-Blaming NATO for the invasion (a Russian talking point)
-Giving Ukraine onerous terms for an alliance
-Pullin US and NATO troops out of the Baltic states
-Threatening to pull US troops out of Europe
-Antagonizing our NATO allies
-Talking about financial treaties with Russia
-Weakening AFCON
As per usual, WTF does this have to do with this thread?
Could you seriously, just once, try to bring something of substance to the discussions?
Donald Trump's first impeachment was because he beat Hillary.
You would have had no problems if Biden had threatened to withhold aid or funds unless another president lied about an investigation into Trump prior to the election?
BIden is on record admitting to a quid pro quo to ukraine for his fvck up of a son's business dealings.
This likely won't matter to you but here you go: https://oversightdemocrats.house.go...g-of-ukraine-prosecutor-general-viktor-shokin
That being said, quid pro quo happens literally all the time between nations. That is straight negotiating. Asking another nation to announce an investigation that isn't actually happening into your political rival and threatening to withhold congressionally voted on aid related to that is completely different, and its not that hard of a concept to understand. Similar to "both Biden and Trump had docs!" As if that alone is the issue. It is disingenuous.
Can you flesh out this allegation? I think you're missing something but I can't tell unless you give us more details.
I've seen the video clips. I'm really not interested in going down a rabbit hole. Biden pardoned his family because they were all guilty of all kinds of shit. His hands were in it too.
I'm not interested in a rabbit hole, just this specific allegation. I feel like you may have some bad info.
I shared the information above. They've made their mind up. Doesn't matter if it was bipartisan at the time. Their minds are made up, it is the same to them.
You were correct on the difference between the documents case but I'm still curious what he means by a quid pro quo between Biden and Ukraine. I have no idea what he's talking about unless he's trying to connect the firing of the corrupt prosecutor because he wouldn't investigate corruption.
Yeah, check out the link I shared. Biden did leverage to get Shokun fired. But it was supported by the GOP at the time. And Biden was on tape talking about it (because you would be free to discuss something that wasn't actually nefarious).
Ah, I may have missed your link because I was out of the office meeting with a vendor for half the day and haven't caught up on all threads. Yes, Joe did that but he had the backing of the Western world as well and not only that, Burisma wasn't even in the crosshairs at the time but had been investigated for some allegations that occurred before Hunter joined Burisma. It was dumb for Hunter to get involved with a Ukrainian company but there has been zero proof that he did anything criminal.
