OT...what is the purpose behind this deal Obama is trying to strike...

[jimbob1019]

With Iran?? I can see no good coming from a deal with a nation (that we know hates us) to ease sanctions on a nuclear program that they have been notoriously lying about for years! We ALL know their goal is getting a bomb. Why are we paving the way for this? Hell, the president is considering sweetening the pot for Iran by allowing them to enrich uranium at a facility they kept hidden from us for years!

Negotiating with a country that holds "death to America" parades just doesn't make sense to me. We hold all the cards when it comes to Iran yet we're willing to just give away all of our leverage. Can someone please explain to me why Obama is so gung ho about this??

 

[Transference]

Originally posted by jimbob1019:
With Iran?? I can see no good coming from a deal with a nation (that we know hates us) to ease sanctions on a nuclear program that they have been notoriously lying about for years! We ALL know their goal is getting a bomb. Why are we paving the way for this? Hell, the president is considering sweetening the pot for Iran by allowing them to enrich uranium at a facility they kept hidden from us for years!

Negotiating with a country that holds "death to America" parades just doesn't make sense to me. We hold all the cards when it comes to Iran yet we're willing to just give away all of our leverage. Can someone please explain to me why Obama is so gung ho about this??

There are two ways for the US to ultimately deal with Iran;
All out war.Negotiations that relieve the tensions on both sides and give both leaderships something they can take back to their country as a "win" (Iran = better economic situation, US = Lower chance they are able to make a nuke)
If we just continue with our sanctions, they will still get to a point where they can make a bomb (even though (publicly) unabated, they are still decades away).

The truth is, Iran has a large % of its population that is either more focused on economic issues or actually carries pro-west sentiment. All the "death to America" stuff is carried out by the countries fringe parties (kind of like the messages the extreme left/right put out here).

Not to mention the US has a lot of common enemies with Iran, so the "enemy of my enemy" and such. I honestly like whats happening now as far as Shia/Sunni's starting to take the fighting to each other and the US not necessarily/overtly intervening...

 

[iceheart08]

Originally posted by jimbob1019:
With Iran?? I can see no good coming from a deal with a nation (that we know hates us) to ease sanctions on a nuclear program that they have been notoriously lying about for years! We ALL know their goal is getting a bomb. Why are we paving the way for this? Hell, the president is considering sweetening the pot for Iran by allowing them to enrich uranium at a facility they kept hidden from us for years!

Negotiating with a country that holds "death to America" parades just doesn't make sense to me. We hold all the cards when it comes to Iran yet we're willing to just give away all of our leverage. Can someone please explain to me why Obama is so gung ho about this??

because he is a muslim who hates america...

 

[igachoochoo]

it is pretty clear.....he wants Iran to have the bomb. Isreal already has a dozen or so and since choomboy hates Isreal, he has to do all in his power to even the score. Face it, choom is a radical Muslim. choom doesnot think beyond two years out when he leaves office.....but you know, if there is some major terrorist attack in the continental USA, then choom can declare martial law, suspend elections and be president for life. On a brighter note, that bucket of scum Dirty Harry Ried is retiring.

 

[Beer & Bacon]

This thread has already gone as expected.

 

[TopGun01]

I saw that iceheart...but there's some degree of truth in that statement.




01/20/2017 - Can't get here fast enough.

 

[67Tiger]

Obama is .......

without a doubt the sorriest president in my lifetime and I'm a lot older than you. Nothing good has come out of his presidency so far including Obamacare the way it's structured and I don't expect anything positive from here on out. When I think that my father gave his life 70 years ago in a World War to preserve our way of life so that this idiot can make the decisions he makes, it turns my stomach!

 

[Buzzards Roost]

What right does any sovereign nation have to tell another sovereign nation what weapons it can have? How would we like it if it were done to us?

 

[jimbob1019]

Transference...Iran is much closer to a bomb than that.

And while maybe their is a pro-west sentiment among the majority of Iranians, they are not the ones running the country. The Iranian regime is completely pro "death to America" & "blow Israel off the face of the map".

& they will continue to control the country as there is no such thing as democratic elections there. They don't care about the will of the people either...they only care about their agenda.

 

[jimbob1019]

Semper...no one really thinks Iran having nuclear weapons is a good idea...not even the other middle eastern countries...

Don't you think there's a reason for that?

 

[orangelvis]

Originally posted by igachoochoo:
it is pretty clear.....he wants Iran to have the bomb. Isreal already has a dozen or so and since choomboy hates Isreal, he has to do all in his power to even the score. Face it, choom is a radical Muslim. choom doesnot think beyond two years out when he leaves office.....but you know, if there is some major terrorist attack in the continental USA, then choom can declare martial law, suspend elections and be president for life. On a brighter note, that bucket of scum Dirty Harry Ried is retiring.

^^^^ This is pretty much spot on. Let's see now, O has recently gone on record as wanting to make voting mandatory. He has the military announcing that it will be conducting the equivalent of anti urban uprising training in the streets and neighborhoods of Texas. Wonder what's he's thinking about?

 

[Transference]

Originally posted by jimbob1019:
Transference...Iran is much closer to a bomb than that.

And while maybe their is a pro-west sentiment among the majority of Iranians, they are not the ones running the country. The Iranian regime is completely pro "death to America" & "blow Israel off the face of the map".

& they will continue to control the country as there is no such thing as democratic elections there. They don't care about the will of the people either...they only care about their agenda.

Not according to the CIA, Mossad, SIS, etc..

Quite frankly, you nor anyone else, can predict the outcome of what would happen if we are able to negotiate a deal with Iran. The only thing we do know is that if we continue sanctions, they will eventually have enough uranium to make a weapon. If we don't negotiate to try to stop that, then we have to go to war.

Allowing them (or any non-nuclear countries for that matter) to develop nuclear capabilities is a nonstarter. The same should be said of willingly jumping into another all out war (when since we haven't figured out how to pay the 6-8 trillion the last two cost).

Negotiating is the only course of action here IMO, and the longer we wait, the less control we have over Iran's nuclear capabilities...

 

[watty55]

Originally posted by Beer & Bacon:
This thread has already gone as expected.

This thread is why the ignore poster concept was invented.

 

[my95GTHO]

He's trying to prevent blow-back causing us a future war. People who hate him so must have their hate based in racism. The only thing he's done that was truly horrible was the stimulus package. Not spending the money but the fact that it was almost all spend on dumb shit. Should have all been spent on infrastructure. Most of his policies really weren't that much different than Bush. I lean republican but try to be open minded, most people seem to be hard one way or the other and are blind to anything good the other side does. Somewhere between the 2 extreme parties is where we should be.

 

[PAWrocka]

Originally posted by iceheart08:

Originally posted by jimbob1019:
With Iran?? I can see no good coming from a deal with a nation (that we know hates us) to ease sanctions on a nuclear program that they have been notoriously lying about for years! We ALL know their goal is getting a bomb. Why are we paving the way for this? Hell, the president is considering sweetening the pot for Iran by allowing them to enrich uranium at a facility they kept hidden from us for years!

Negotiating with a country that holds "death to America" parades just doesn't make sense to me. We hold all the cards when it comes to Iran yet we're willing to just give away all of our leverage. Can someone please explain to me why Obama is so gung ho about this??

because he is a muslim who hates america...

I can actually see the smirk on your face LOL

 

[NavyTigerSC]

These threads always give me a chuckle. Had no idea that TI had such extravagant and detailed intel on Iran.

 

[pharout73]

Watty had to press show message a couple of time myself....

Really looking for the logic here...

Iran Sanctions hurting
Iran Populace has no Power - yes they are young and pro western (see Hitler and nazi movement for what repression does) and how did that uprising that Obama did not even say a word about work out for all those folks they hung (interesting the difference between how he has treated sunni and shia population - at least we know if he is a muslim he is shia- kidding but ironic)
Iran run by theocratic mullahs (nuts who think the 12 Imam is coming) is likely not a rational actor
Iran cheats on inspections just like North Korea and Iraq did and will never be able to be trusted fully
Iran openly says wipe our ally (? in the Obama administration) Israel off the map and attack the Great Satan...

and we are willing to

Let them keep 6K+ centrifuges and maybe more
Let them keep underground facilities along with all those they currently have
Let them keep their uranium stockpiles
Agree to an inspection regime that they control much like North Korea who threw us out
Losen our sanction
Not bother to really get it in writing but have an understanding

and you assume

they are years ( decades really) away when they can fly one in from North Korea tomorrow or buy the plans from Pakistan
they really won't do anything anyway even if they can
that Russia and China being OK with it means we should be too (main ally and main oil export market)

You sound like Jen Psaki or Marie Harf,,,

Yemen is a success
Libya is better off now that we got rid of Quadaffi
The Arab spring is good
What they really need is more Coke and McDonald's

Here is what I think we need to do:

Keep sanctions in place and throttle their economy until they reduce their terror support and nuclear warhead programs
Make them agree to intrusive / unannounced inspections ( not the UN led Saddam sham where he played Where is Carmen San Diego)
Use continued cyber warefare to disrupt what they are doing unless they comply with 1 & 2
Agree that they can have nuclear power but they have to export and import rods so they build up no stockpiles. We will be glad to supply and reporcess them. - this is really a give because their cost of oil production is in the $4-6 per barrel range so they can use oil and it makes no difference at all.


All of your supposition of " well no one knows what they will do" is just crap. Given the centuries old fight (14+ )between Shia and Sunni Islam coupled with Iran's hatred for Israel and the US and Iran's (Persian) desire for hegemony in the region.... it is not likely in our interest.

We need to drive a hard bargin and if they don't like it continue on. As far a a war with Iran I don't want it at all. But sometime we don't get to choose.

But don't kid yourself they are a paper tiger. Just like Saddam who they couldn't beat in a 9 year war.... Yes, they can hurl rockets all ove the place and yes they can mount terror attacks but the fact is they are more vulnerable than you think... 1 oil refinery in the whole country of any size. Hmmmm wonder if that is on a target list somewhere..... and the bomb a few pipeline and they have no economy.

And if you don't see how stupid Kerry / Rice / Jarrett / Obama are just look at us running bombing raids in support of IRG in Tikrit on the same day we are sending arms to the Saudi's as they bomb Iranian back Houthi rebels in Yemen. Now that makes sense, where is Jen Psaki to explain that to me , I'm confused.

This administrations foreign policy gives dumpster fire new definition.

 

[firegiver]

Team America, world policers.

 

[pharout73]

A leaderless world has tended to be a lot less stable.. but then again Obama likes that idea.

Let's see what that looks like...

 

[marshmk]

it only took 3 posts for some idiot to call him a muslim? Come on.... you guys are slipping.

This post was edited on 3/27 2:35 PM by marshmk

 

[Earle36]

President Obama makes Jimmy Carter look like King Soloman.

 

[JamesD7]

Transference, i think i remember that you are in some kind of "think tank" in dc. Is that correct? If so respond. If not, sorry, i have you confused with someone else and please accept my apology.

 

[Deac Tiger]

This is a fun thread. I'll take a crack at it..............

Liberal or Left View

1) At a minimum, discussions and negotiation is the only choice of true open minded international leadership
2) To not sit down and discuss continues a pattern of lack of respect that we show countries that do not share our policies.
3) #2 above is a continuation of the Reagan/Bush policy of labeling 'terrorist' and turning our back on dialog on that country or any country that doesn't support our policies.
4) Continued sanctions over time is eventually seen as an act of war - (the roots of this belief in recent times have been the economic and penalty sanctions put upon Germany post world war 1)
5) The downside for negotiation is minimal; if they don't adhere to their end of the bargain, we can go back to the international community with a clear documentation of what was agreed to, and what the repercussions were/are.
6) By having a long term 'agreement' we can at least continue dialog.
7) Israel is an important and long term ally; however, they are not the only country in that region of the world.

Conservative of Right View
1) As much as we'd like to believe that they desire peace, their policies, actions, and spending continue to support that they do not share in a centrist peace action - they are aligned with groups that threaten the U.S.
2) Frankly, this is a terrorist country that desires to do harm to the U.S. and our allies, particularly Israel. Without a complete shutdown of this nuclear process altogether, we will never have secure understanding of their capabilities.
3) The threats are not eliminated through any of the steps in these negotiations.
4) Historically speaking, Iran has done a horrendous job of living up to treaty or agreed to international processes. We can carry this detail back to the 1800's and follow the path of broken promises. (Too many treaties to mention in this forum)
5) The protection of U.S. and Israel interests are not clearly articulated; along with the repercussions of breaking agreements.
6) Extremely low trust factor stemming from Iran's ever changing interpretation of documentation. For example in previous discussions they agreed to international teams checking compliance on their nuclear activities. During the execution of these steps Iran has repeatedly postponed said meetings by stating that since their intentions are domestic only, we don't have a right to have details about their domestic policies.

What a mess; both parties have acted like babies at some point during this process. My negotiation would be a complete shut down of nuclear development for domestic or other; perhaps some help in creating other alternative energy sources. Short of that, no deal. What gives the US the right to say who can or who can't have nuclear capabilities? The monies we provide with strings attached along with our world reach as enforcer.

 

[tigerGUY]

Originally posted by jimbob1019:
With Iran?? I can see no good coming from a deal with a nation (that we know hates us) to ease sanctions on a nuclear program that they have been notoriously lying about for years! We ALL know their goal is getting a bomb. Why are we paving the way for this? Hell, the president is considering sweetening the pot for Iran by allowing them to enrich uranium at a facility they kept hidden from us for years!

Negotiating with a country that holds "death to America" parades just doesn't make sense to me. We hold all the cards when it comes to Iran yet we're willing to just give away all of our leverage. Can someone please explain to me why Obama is so gung ho about this??

The dealings this Muslim has carried out aren't by accident. Why our military doesn't take over is beyond me. This treasonous piece of crap should have been stopped long ago. Anyone, anyone, that doesn't see what's going on as anything but a conscious effort to destroy America is dumber than a box of rocks.

 

[Transference]

Originally posted by JamesD7:
Transference, i think i remember that you are in some kind of "think tank" in dc. Is that correct? If so respond. If not, sorry, i have you confused with someone else and please accept my apology.

I used to be, I am in the private sector now. My public sector expertise was macroeconomics, financial policy and regulatory impact analysis.

 

[pharout73]

Transference and thinking are alien concepts...

 

[JAMCRACKER99]

My take away from this thread is that several of you agree with jimbob. Now let that sink in for a bit.

 

[greenvilledoc]

Originally posted by JAMCRACKER99:
My take away from this thread is that several of you agree with jimbob. Now let that sink in for a bit.

Well played, sir. Well played.

 

[Transference]

Originally posted by JAMCRACKER99:
My take away from this thread is that several of you agree with jimbob. Now let that sink in for a bit.

 

[jimbob1019]

& yet those of you who don't agree with me believe people like the Iranian regime just want to be left alone & live in peace with the rest of the world...

So who's the idiot again??

 

[ElCidPawsFan]

He is practicing Taquiyya and Kitman. Link Attached!!


Link Attached. Google for more.

Taqiyya and Kitman: The role of Deception in Islam

 

[enctigger]

Frankly I am surprised that prince Obama doesn't just sell Iran nukes and then lie to us all saying it was bush's fault.

 

[iceheart08]

Re: He is practicing Taquiyya and Kitman. Link Attached!!

Originally posted by ElCidPawsFan:

Link Attached. Google for more.

tigerGUY, igachoochoo, Earle, and jimbob in a single thread, its like Kwanzaa all over again! I think im gonna add this guy, ElCidPawsFan to my list of favorite posters.

 

[igachoochoo]

Originally posted by Transference:

Originally posted by JamesD7:
Transference, i think i remember that you are in some kind of "think tank" in dc. Is that correct? If so respond. If not, sorry, i have you confused with someone else and please accept my apology.

I used to be, I am in the private sector now. My public sector expertise was macroeconomics, financial policy and regulatory impact analysis.

oh man...."regulatory impact analysis"......that explains a lot. You probably worked on the impact analysis of the ban on incandescent lightbulbs. good job. FH.