So, you're suggesting that the behaviors of young black men today were "learned" from their forefathers who may have been slaves? I find this fascinating given that the absolute most recent slave in the lineage of a present day black man would be between 5 and 7 generations ago, on average. I haven't the foggiest notion what the men in my family were up to 7 generations ago.
Reports of multiple officers shot in Baton Rouge, LA
- Thread starter Joe Cobb
- Start date
In your example, Clemson and Alabama are both considered elites because both are in power 5 conferences. If Clemson wasn't in a power 5 conference, would it have the same opportunities as Alabama to compete for a national championship? Absolutely not.
Right... But you have throughout this thread
The "feeling" comes because they are so brainwashed by their own that everyone is out to get them. It's sad and totally pathetic at the same time.
So you're saying there are no characteristics or traditions that have been passed down from your ancestors?
Aside from my appearance, there are none that I'm aware of. My family came here penniless and starving during the Potato Famine in Ireland. I'm told they stole and begged for food until they could find work in Syracuse, NY, where they were treated like scum(you probably learned in school about how Irish immigrants were treated) until they saved enough money to buy a small plot of land in South Carolina to start a farm. I've never begged, stolen, or farmed.
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The only thing I've spoken out about is people of one race telling how people of other races should feel. That is all.
Regarding your feeling, is that a majority or minority opinion amongst black people?
That's irrelevant. The only thing that matters is whether or not blacks are actually being "oppressed." Have yet to see examples supporting their "feeling."
I did. It may not be the answer you wanted or were expecting, but it was an answer.
Anybody that protest anything should be put on a ship with holes drilled in the bottom of it. Send them out towards the Bermuda triangle in the middle of Hurricane season. That's not freedom of speech nor is anything they are doing solving a problem. It's just a hate protest, and only breeds the same.
Well..since I'm not black, I don't have 1st hand experience. Now there are tons of articles on google that would say yes, but you would probably view it as propaganda because your view is already entrenched.
LIke I said earlier, if you've never experienced it as a black man, then terrific.
So no oppression, as i thought. Could have saved time by just coming out and saying you have no examples/proof/evidence to a word you keep misusing.
My view is not "entrenched." Maybe it could change if you actually provided reason instead of nonsense
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First of all, I'm not trying to convince you whether it exists or not. I'm not naive to think I can change anybody's views on a message board. It wouldn't matter if I linked numerous articles, you wouldn't believe it anyway because you've never experienced it. I could tell you the things my black friends have experienced but you wouldn't believe it either.
I usually stay out of political threads because it's nothing more than one side telling the other that their view is the correct one. Not sure why I got involved today. Maybe I was bored. Anyway, I'm done with this thread.
Good day to you sir.
Just summation here... a Black American just shot and killed Black American cops because in America, Black Men are killed by Cops.
this has no basis. there is no discussion or rationale.
this has no basis. there is no discussion or rationale.
Would it really mattered if someone did give you an example? I don't think there are going to be any shining examples of black oppression in today's society. There isn't going to be video of black people getting fire hosed like it's the 60's. But oppression does happen in today's society against blacks and other minorities.
But it's something I think is difficult to understand and quantify until you live through it.
Would it matter? Yes, that is how views and opinions change. When people provide reason to why they view things the way they do it helps confirm or alter opposing thought. It's called discussion, in part it's how you grow and change. If there are not "shining examples" or evidence supporting the thought i do not believe it. Not the way i think, it's not logical.
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/topo...y-hinders-black-americans-20140908-story.html
Thoughts?
The case is often made that oppression is more systematic in nature.
But if it's not something you yourself can see, such as being treated differently in an interview process or being treated differently by police officers, how do you quantify it? What evidence of those things could be provided for you that aren't already available?
That's why I asked would it matter? Because there aren't people being hosed down in the streets or hung up in trees, but that doesn't mean oppression doesn't exist.
I know all about our country's racial history. And african Americans certainly have reason to be upset about a lot of things. They have the right to protest. But when the BLM movement starts killing police they cross a line and become a villainous enterprise. And I would expect
You do know there are also skinny people that really feel that they are fat. What you "feel" isn't always fact.
I will respond tomorrow when I get to my computer. Have been on my I-phone. Hard to type.
I have much to correct in your debate points. As I have stated, each "side" must accept their contribution to the problem. Thus far you have seemed to be incapable of doing that. That will never move the narrative forward. Look forward to more discussion.
If @chrisard doesn't move this post to a different board, then I want to understand why he moves other similar topics yet allows 8 pages of this?!? Ard, why the double standard?
I would gather because this a national level story that just about everyone is paying attention to right now. And it's something that actually matters. Unlike the umpteen political threads that get started each and everyday.
Plus the thread has remained relatively civil
Thank you for actually giving examples. I'm a few too many deep rn but i'll read the article and reply tomorrowhttp://www.latimes.com/opinion/topo...y-hinders-black-americans-20140908-story.html
Thoughts?
The case is often made that oppression is more systematic in nature.
It's disgusting that this coward felt the need to take the lives of cops who in all likelihood were jus doing their jobs and have done nothing wrong.
Murdering innocent people is sad in general whether they're police officers, black men, Muslims, white people, spouses, children, whatever. There's no justification for it, I don't care whether you're angry at cops because of what a relative few have done, it doesn't mean that these other cops deserve to be attacked/murdered or even viewed as corrupt just like some cops' prejudices towards a group because of the actions of others is unjust. That goes for whether they're shooting and killing black men who, even if they've committed crimes, still deserve a chance to live or just profiling, pulling them over for DWB or treating them differently than they would a white person in the same situation.
In terms of the climate of race relations, I hope most of you don't think that any of this is new. Black folks have been mistreated by police for much longer than the past couple years, the difference was that police could just claim "I thought he had a gun" and it was case closed without video evidence and widespread backlash. Yes, everything is getting more attention but if you don't think that all of this tension and vitriol would have happened just as easily under GWB if social media and in particular Twitter was the main source of news, then I don't know what to tell you. Either you're unwilling to believe that or you're just looking for a reason to blame the current president. The same people who see GWB dancing at a memorial for slain police officers and say he's just trying to bring some levity to the situation would have much different words for Obama if he did the same so it's clear those views are incredibly skewed and incapable of objectivity.
That's beside the point however and like I said, a large part of the problem is that everything now is caught on video, immediately spread to the world and it allows people to make their own conclusions about what happened, react to it...and especially see the words of others and follow without coming to a rational conclusion. It creates a volatile situation and in particular when there are more & more examples of police killing black men who at least appear not to be a threat the situation continues to escalate. And it's not just that, they're platforms for bigots to spew their hatred and hide behind a handle in relative anonymity which just adds fuel to the fire. It's not so much that race relations have changed as it is that now it's much more out in the open. You can see 1000 Tweets about racists or n---ers and it seems like things are just falling apart but those feelings existed long before Twitter.
Once again, it's absurd to place the actions of a few on an entire group which goes for blaming and targeting all cops AND when a few BLM supporters decide to commit horrific crimes then wanting them to be labeled as a terrorist organization. A very small percentage of cops are murderers as are a very small percentage of BLM supporters, just because one group sees a member of the other do wrong doesn't justify condemning them all.
Murdering innocent people is sad in general whether they're police officers, black men, Muslims, white people, spouses, children, whatever. There's no justification for it, I don't care whether you're angry at cops because of what a relative few have done, it doesn't mean that these other cops deserve to be attacked/murdered or even viewed as corrupt just like some cops' prejudices towards a group because of the actions of others is unjust. That goes for whether they're shooting and killing black men who, even if they've committed crimes, still deserve a chance to live or just profiling, pulling them over for DWB or treating them differently than they would a white person in the same situation.
In terms of the climate of race relations, I hope most of you don't think that any of this is new. Black folks have been mistreated by police for much longer than the past couple years, the difference was that police could just claim "I thought he had a gun" and it was case closed without video evidence and widespread backlash. Yes, everything is getting more attention but if you don't think that all of this tension and vitriol would have happened just as easily under GWB if social media and in particular Twitter was the main source of news, then I don't know what to tell you. Either you're unwilling to believe that or you're just looking for a reason to blame the current president. The same people who see GWB dancing at a memorial for slain police officers and say he's just trying to bring some levity to the situation would have much different words for Obama if he did the same so it's clear those views are incredibly skewed and incapable of objectivity.
That's beside the point however and like I said, a large part of the problem is that everything now is caught on video, immediately spread to the world and it allows people to make their own conclusions about what happened, react to it...and especially see the words of others and follow without coming to a rational conclusion. It creates a volatile situation and in particular when there are more & more examples of police killing black men who at least appear not to be a threat the situation continues to escalate. And it's not just that, they're platforms for bigots to spew their hatred and hide behind a handle in relative anonymity which just adds fuel to the fire. It's not so much that race relations have changed as it is that now it's much more out in the open. You can see 1000 Tweets about racists or n---ers and it seems like things are just falling apart but those feelings existed long before Twitter.
Once again, it's absurd to place the actions of a few on an entire group which goes for blaming and targeting all cops AND when a few BLM supporters decide to commit horrific crimes then wanting them to be labeled as a terrorist organization. A very small percentage of cops are murderers as are a very small percentage of BLM supporters, just because one group sees a member of the other do wrong doesn't justify condemning them all.
And in addition, there are only a handful of those killings by police that are not justified. I bet it is less than 10
This cute little depiction makes the assumption that all white people descended from slave owners, which very, very, very , very few actually did. The truth is that black Americans who descended from slaves outnumber the descendants of white slave owners by about 6 to 1. MOST white folks in America are the descendants of poor immigrants who came here intending to better their way of life...and did. I'd love to see one of these graphics created for the Irish immigrants who sailed into New York covered in lice with their ribs poking out in the 1850s.http://www.latimes.com/opinion/topo...y-hinders-black-americans-20140908-story.html
Thoughts?
The case is often made that oppression is more systematic in nature.
I understand the argument...and while this political cartoon does over-simplify the entire picture (it's only a cartoon after all), I think what has to be acknowledged is the significant amount of obstacles that black people have endured as recently as a half century ago.
The example of Irish immigrants works well to show how American history is filled with hard-working people who have endured poverty and outrageous odds, only to overcome various obstacles and succeed. But, in my view of our nation's history, it's hard to ignore the Civil Rights era and the stain of Jim Crow era segregation and discrimination as not having significant effects on the overall "success" of the black community.
Now that this thread is 8 pages, I'm hoping it will die a peaceful death until the next OT political thread.
The issue is really whether or not you believe in the existence of white privilege... After trying to see the issue objectively, my conclusion is that to be a white guy in America is quite a privileged position.
I do understand that many people have a different view on these matters, but I hope, whatever your viewpoint is, it doesn't take away from your ability to empathize with other communities, even if you fundamentally disagree.
Just curious, and this is because I seriously haven't heard it, had Barack Obama ever made a statement basically saying "people should not resist police and should follow police commands"? Again, I am just curious and have been tied up with work matters a lot lately. I truly believe if he said something to this effect, a LOT of people would feel that this would help matters a lot (not neccesarily in the black community, but at least in the white community since this is one of the main reasons a lot of whites feel these instances have happened). And yes, I know, they didn't deserve to die, but if they had listened to police commands, I feel they would still be alive today. As President of the United States, he owes it to the country to reinforce that "law and order" is of the utmost concern.
must see tv
don lemon is one of the worst guys on tv IMO, but this sherriff gets it, go to site and watch video
grab your popcorn
http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/18/us/wisconsin-sheriff-david-clarke-i-predicted-this/index.html
Wisconsin sheriff on Baton Rouge shootings: I predicted this - CNN.com
(CNN)In a heated interview with CNN's Don Lemon, Milwaukee County Sheriff David Clarke said he predicted the recent police shootings in Baton Rouge, Louisiana that killed three law enforcement officers and wounded three others.
Baton Rouge shooting: 3 officers dead; shooter was Missouri man, sources say
Sheriff and Don Lemon get heated over police shootings 05:00
"I've been watching this for two years. I've predicted this," Clarke said. "This anti-police rhetoric sweeping the country has turned out some hateful things inside of people that are now playing themselves out on the American police officer."
When police are shot, America is the target
Clarke blamed the Black Lives Matter movement for inspiring violent crimes against law enforcement officers, calling the group "purveyors of hate." Clarke argued that their ideology was false, saying there is no data that proves law enforcement officers treat black males more aggressively than white males.
"This anti-cop sentiment from this hateful ideology called Black Lives Matter has fueled this rage against the American police officer," Clarke said.
The high spirited interview garnered a lot of feedback on social media. Some of those reactions are listed below:
Am I the only one who just saw that on @CNN?? Emotions are raw and high right now.. @donlemon did the right thing going to break..
— Reggie Miller (@ReggieMillerTNT) July 18, 2016
Don Lemon and Sheriff David Clarke on CNN is most see TV!
— Jarvis Escott (@Jarvisescott) July 18, 2016
I saw that Don Lemon interview. Sheriff Clarke clearly came to fight and didn't want to dialogue.
— Terrell J. Starr (@Russian_Starr) July 18, 2016
don lemon is one of the worst guys on tv IMO, but this sherriff gets it, go to site and watch video
grab your popcorn
http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/18/us/wisconsin-sheriff-david-clarke-i-predicted-this/index.html
Wisconsin sheriff on Baton Rouge shootings: I predicted this - CNN.com
(CNN)In a heated interview with CNN's Don Lemon, Milwaukee County Sheriff David Clarke said he predicted the recent police shootings in Baton Rouge, Louisiana that killed three law enforcement officers and wounded three others.
Baton Rouge shooting: 3 officers dead; shooter was Missouri man, sources say
Sheriff and Don Lemon get heated over police shootings 05:00
"I've been watching this for two years. I've predicted this," Clarke said. "This anti-police rhetoric sweeping the country has turned out some hateful things inside of people that are now playing themselves out on the American police officer."
When police are shot, America is the target
Clarke blamed the Black Lives Matter movement for inspiring violent crimes against law enforcement officers, calling the group "purveyors of hate." Clarke argued that their ideology was false, saying there is no data that proves law enforcement officers treat black males more aggressively than white males.
"This anti-cop sentiment from this hateful ideology called Black Lives Matter has fueled this rage against the American police officer," Clarke said.
The high spirited interview garnered a lot of feedback on social media. Some of those reactions are listed below:
Am I the only one who just saw that on @CNN?? Emotions are raw and high right now.. @donlemon did the right thing going to break..
— Reggie Miller (@ReggieMillerTNT) July 18, 2016
Don Lemon and Sheriff David Clarke on CNN is most see TV!
— Jarvis Escott (@Jarvisescott) July 18, 2016
I saw that Don Lemon interview. Sheriff Clarke clearly came to fight and didn't want to dialogue.
— Terrell J. Starr (@Russian_Starr) July 18, 2016
FOX news. A page 2 reference, later than I expected.
Anyway, I realize that this is a tad late in this thread. But I keep seeing/hearing a reference to "institutional racism." Can you do me a favor and define that for me please. I have this funny feeling that that phrase is defined more by irrational, emotional perception than defined by rational, logical, statistical fact. But again if you can define this for me that would be great.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_racism
Yes, I know, it's Wikipedia. If you want to bar this as an example, take a look at many of the footnotes for specific citations. in particular, the housing limitations and loan differences towards minorities is one of the most commonly cited examples.
Here's another very straight-forward example of "institutional racism."
In 2003, two researchers performed a field test in which they sent identical resumes out responding to numerous ads in Boston and Chicago. They found a 50% callback difference depending on whether they used a "black name" or "white name" at the top of the resume. There are several other components to the study, which you can read here: http://www.nber.org/papers/w9873
actually genealogy is a fun hobby to engulf yourself in.
when i started the project back in the late 90s, my question was how many of my ancestors were in the colonies during the revolution.
thats like identifying 256 forefather and mothers.
been a fun project and i have identified at least 75%
the native american side on both my parents
paternal- catawba indian
maternal- cherokee- "james walkingstick"
are much more difficult to dissect.
great project- our kids should should learn history by traveling with their ancestors
sure does make history more interesting
We all need to take that deep breath and let the police investigate and produce a finding that explains the who and why.
I can see plenty of blame to go around and I for one do not want my family including children and grandchildren nor anyone else's family to have to live with the fear of hate crimes against anyone or any organization
When our police make errors or violate the law we can't change the unchangeable so we need to make those events less and less
Being of the white race to put my comments in that perspective I can assure any person of a different nationality , race or otherwise that the crimes committed by Dylan Roof of senselessly murdering 9 people or Michael Slager of shooting a fleeing person regardless of the criminal violation are NOT acceptable in any form regardless of the race, creed culture etc.
Some of the BLM leaders build the narrative that every person that is white or wearing blue is bloodthirsty crazy against all people different from them and that is simply NOT the case.
Let's work to FIX the problems and NOT use the problems for self promotion or to promote hate.
To fix the world per Mother Theresa , One must start with themselves
I have been researching ideas on what I can do to help my own small community
The crime and violence must stop and I want to be apart of the solution.
I can see plenty of blame to go around and I for one do not want my family including children and grandchildren nor anyone else's family to have to live with the fear of hate crimes against anyone or any organization
When our police make errors or violate the law we can't change the unchangeable so we need to make those events less and less
Being of the white race to put my comments in that perspective I can assure any person of a different nationality , race or otherwise that the crimes committed by Dylan Roof of senselessly murdering 9 people or Michael Slager of shooting a fleeing person regardless of the criminal violation are NOT acceptable in any form regardless of the race, creed culture etc.
Some of the BLM leaders build the narrative that every person that is white or wearing blue is bloodthirsty crazy against all people different from them and that is simply NOT the case.
Let's work to FIX the problems and NOT use the problems for self promotion or to promote hate.
To fix the world per Mother Theresa , One must start with themselves
I have been researching ideas on what I can do to help my own small community
The crime and violence must stop and I want to be apart of the solution.
http://www.nber.org/papers/w9873
Good try with this one. In a cursory reading I could see the glaring flaws in that experiment. They even cover them in paragraph 3.5 of their own paper.
"First, our outcome measure is crude, even relative to the previous audit studies."
They go so far as to suggest that their lack of controls would
"As a result, our findings may under-estimate the extent of discrimination."
If that is not a clear statement of expecting certain results before the experiment then I don't know what does. That experiment was designed to achieve a specific result.
I would not consider that study to be legitimate evidence of anything other than a poorly run experiment with a clear agenda.
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It's sad, but I just don't see a way there will never be race issues in America. There is to much hate on both sides and the media just feeds off of the hate. It's not a majority on either side, but it doesn't take a majority in today's society. The media will continue to feed the beast.
I fear these copy cat shootings will only grow for the Police. If the BLM protest keep calling for Police deaths, then I really fear there will be a shooting during one these marches for retaliation from some white idiot. To wrongs never make a right, but unfortunately this is where we are right now.
I fear these copy cat shootings will only grow for the Police. If the BLM protest keep calling for Police deaths, then I really fear there will be a shooting during one these marches for retaliation from some white idiot. To wrongs never make a right, but unfortunately this is where we are right now.
time for police officers to start arresting any BLM activist who carries a sign or speaks about killing cops.
and any who violate any law, like blocking traffic.
enough is enough..
and any who violate any law, like blocking traffic.
enough is enough..
