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Ukraine War

LaniKaiTiger said:
@TigerGrowls

What’s your proposal for ending the war?
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Thats a tough one but here is what I would think needs to be done and what has to happen.

- Internatonally led peace negotations.
- Russia will keep all or most of the land it has taken.
- Russia will have to pay to rebuild Ukraine or heavily contribute to it.
- Sign some new treaties for security related assurances on both sides.

To be honest if the US had not sent over a hundred billion over and helped logistically this would have already been over and there would have been much less casualties. Russia feels threatened on its borders due to what has been occurring since 2013 related to the US led coup and its their line in the sand. I do not like it and am not a Russia supporter in any way shape or form but its probably going to end up needing to be something like this.

Based on McConnell's comments this week though the US will continue running this proxy war over there. I am just hoping the house can shut down any further funding but thats not even a guarantee as they do not need many republican votes to go along with all the dems voting in unison to pass another funding bill.
 
TigerGrowls said:
Thats a tough one but here is what I would think needs to be done and what has to happen.

- Internatonally led peace negotations.
- Russia will keep all or most of the land it has taken.
- Russia will have to pay to rebuild Ukraine or heavily contribute to it.
- Sign some new treaties for security related assurances on both sides.

To be honest if the US had not sent over a hundred billion over and helped logistically this would have already been over and there would have been much less casualties. Russia feels threatened on its borders due to what has been occurring since 2013 related to the US led coup and its their line in the sand. I do not like it and am not a Russia supporter in any way shape or form but its probably going to end up needing to be something like this.

Based on McConnell's comments this week though the US will continue running this proxy war over there. I am just hoping the house can shut down any further funding but thats not even a guarantee as they do not need many republican votes to go along with all the dems voting in unison to pass another funding bill.
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Appreciate the response. On the second point, what prevents Russia from taking the land, pausing for a year or two to rearm, and then invading Ukraine again, or invading someone else? I really hate to make the comparison, because Putin isn't Hitler, but the UK and France thought ceding the Sudetenland to Hitler would placate him. It obviously did not. You suggest point four, but Russia's done nothing but bitch and moan about the encroachment of NATO as one of its reasons for starting to war to begin with. What security guarantee can be assured to Ukraine that isn't going to contradict one of Russia's reasons for invading to begin with? Ukraine and Russia signed an agreement after Russia stole Crimea from them. Didn't stop this war, mainly because Russia has no interest in stopping.

You're correct. If we hadn't supported Ukraine, the war would be over, and Ukraine would have ceased to exist as a state. It's never been about Russian-speakers in the Donbass. They sent their army to Kyiv, Kharkiv, and Mykolaiv for a clear reason. It's not going to be cheaper for us in the long run if Russia runs through Ukraine and sets its sights on Poland, Baltic states, and Moldova. Ukraine's army isn't purely defending Ukraine. It's a shield for the remainder of Europe to the west. The framing of the Maidan Revolution as a "US led coup" may as well be from Putin's mouth. The puppet in charge of Ukraine at the time wanted closer ties with Russia, a majority of Ukrainian people did not.
 
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LaniKaiTiger said:
Appreciate the response. On the second point, what prevents Russia from taking the land, pausing for a year or two to rearm, and then invading Ukraine again, or invading someone else? I really hate to make the comparison, because Putin isn't Hitler, but the UK and France thought ceding the Sudetenland to Hitler would placate him. It obviously did not. You suggest point four, but Russia's done nothing but bitch and moan about the encroachment of NATO as one of its reasons for starting to war to begin with. What security guarantee can be assured to Ukraine that isn't going to contradict one of Russia's reasons for invading to begin with? Ukraine and Russia signed an agreement after Russia stole Crimea from them. Didn't stop this war, mainly because Russia has no interest in stopping.

You're correct. If we hadn't supported Ukraine, the war would be over, and Ukraine would have ceased to exist as a state. It's never been about Russian-speakers in the Donbass. They sent their army to Kyiv, Kharkiv, and Mykolaiv for a clear reason. It's not going to be cheaper for us in the long run if Russia runs through Ukraine and sets its sights on Poland, Baltic states, and Moldova. Ukraine's army isn't purely defending Ukraine. It's a shield for the remainder of Europe to the west. The framing of the Maidan Revolution as a "US led coup" may as well be from Putin's mouth. The puppet in charge of Ukraine at the time wanted closer ties with Russia, a majority of Ukrainian people did not.
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You could be right but I think Russia knows better than to try and bite off more than it can chew. I think they consider Ukraine as part of Russia. You have a good argument but in the end I go back to how is it in US national security and financial interests to spend hundreds of billions lengthening a war that will be lost anyway with anything short of direct nato involvement?
 
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TigerGrowls said:
You could be right but I think Russia knows better than to try and bite off more than it can chew. I think they consider Ukraine as part of Russia. You have a good argument but in the end I go back to how is it in US national security and financial interests to spend hundreds of billions lengthening a war that will be lost anyway with anything short of direct nato involvement?
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From what I understand this is about economics. Russia is a part of BRICS and the US dollar is in process of ceasing to be the world reserve currency. For Russia it’s about facilitating this, but also about the fact that NATO has consistently encroached on Russias border by going from 13 original members to 30 in violation of their agreements. Then the CIA puts in a pro-west puppet government. Then we give our proxy nation sophisticated weapons. Then we blow up their pipeline. I mean, what more could we have done to provoke Putin? And HE’s the bad guy??
It’s clear the DC establishment loves their kickbacks both from Ukraine and the military industrial complex. The latest budget has massive no bid arms contracts in it. There are no good guys here imo. US (and their buddies in the EU) are just as dirty/guilty as Putin, if not more so. Maintaining Western hegemony has been the de-facto foreign policy since 1945. It’s coming to an end soon iyam.
 
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TigerGrowls said:
You could be right but I think Russia knows better than to try and bite off more than it can chew. I think they consider Ukraine as part of Russia. You have a good argument but in the end I go back to how is it in US national security and financial interests to spend hundreds of billions lengthening a war that will be lost anyway with anything short of direct nato involvement?
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We don't know that it will be lost anyway, and again, I think the cost of a Russian victory is much higher than what we're seeing now
 
clempzenbill said:
From what I understand this is about economics. Russia is a part of BRICS and the US dollar is in process of ceasing to be the world reserve currency. For Russia it’s about facilitating this, but also about the fact that NATO has consistently encroached on Russias border by going from 13 original members to 30 in violation of their agreements. Then the CIA puts in a pro-west puppet government. Then we give our proxy nation sophisticated weapons. Then we blow up their pipeline. I mean, what more could we have done to provoke Putin? And HE’s the bad guy??
It’s clear the DC establishment loves their kickbacks both from Ukraine and the military industrial complex. The latest budget has massive no bid arms contracts in it. There are no good guys here imo. US (and their buddies in the EU) are just as dirty/guilty as Putin, if not more so. Maintaining Western hegemony has been the de-facto foreign policy since 1945. It’s coming to an end soon iyam.
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I wonder why so many countries want to join NATO. They must be worried about a larger, belligerent country to their east invading them.
 
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LaniKaiTiger said:
I wonder why so many countries want to join NATO. They must be worried about a larger, belligerent country to their east invading them.
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Such ignorance. In 1990 the West signed an aggreement with Russia not to expand NATO east after unifying east and west Germany when the wall went down. The US/NATO have been violating that signed written agreement ever since, expanding NATO eastward closer and closer to Russia. Economically the West has simultaneously been actively working against Russia.
Please try not to embarrass yourself anymore. You don’t know what you’re talking about, just spouting off media propaganda.
Ukraine and it’s puppetmasters are just as much to blame and corrupt just as Russia is.
This isn’t about right and wrong, it’s about power and money and nothing else.
 
clempzenbill said:
Such ignorance. In 1990 the West signed an aggreement with Russia not to expand NATO east after unifying east and west Germany when the wall went down. The US/NATO have been violating that signed written agreement ever since, expanding NATO eastward closer and closer to Russia. Economically the West has simultaneously been actively working against Russia.
Please try not to embarrass yourself anymore. You don’t know what you’re talking about, just spouting off media propaganda.
Ukraine and it’s puppetmasters are just as much to blame and corrupt just as Russia is.
This isn’t about right and wrong, it’s about power and money and nothing else.
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Lol, go move to Moscow buddy. Russia’s an enemy of the United States. To the extent we can squeeze the life out of them, we can and should. Drawing a moral equivalence between Putin's Russia and the United States is a flat out embarrassment to anyone who calls themselves an American.

Countries join NATO of their own volition. Gee, I wonder why.
 
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LaniKaiTiger said:
Lol, go move to Moscow buddy. Russia’s an enemy of the United States. To the extent we can squeeze the life out of them, we can and should. Drawing a moral equivalence between Putin's Russia and the United States is a flat out embarrassment to anyone who calls themselves an American.

Countries join NATO of their own volition. Gee, I wonder why.
Click to expand...
You really have no clue. We are knowingly propagating and facilitating an un-winnable war through the puppet Ukraine government the CIA set up in 2013, that is killing hundreds of thousands of people for no reason, other than money and power. Ukraine has no chance against Russia. That is pure evil.
We are no better than Russia in this conflict. The rulers in Ukraine are growing filthy rich and some of the weapons we are giving them are being sold on the black market. There is no accountability for these weapons. Tens of millions of aid to Ukraine is being laundered back to US politicians and elites.
There are many countries around the world where injustice is happening, gross human rights violations which we ignore and we choose to massively escalate this war causing mass death and the destruction of an entire country. Ukraine can’t win because they are running out of soldiers. You look at the world like it 1990. It’s not, this is about elites fighting over money and the US trying to keep the dollar as world reserve currency. And fighting against a new global organization that trades in its own currency. I am not a Russian sympathizer just because I recogni the US is every bit as wrong and does evil things all over the world. This ain’t the movies bud. We aren’t the Lone Ranger in a white hat and Russias got a black hat on. The real world is much more complicated than that
 
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clempzenbill said:
You really have no clue. We are knowingly propagating and facilitating an un-winnable war through the puppet Ukraine government the CIA set up in 2013, that is killing hundreds of thousands of people for no reason, other than money and power. Ukraine has no chance against Russia. That is pure evil.
We are no better than Russia in this conflict. The rulers in Ukraine are growing filthy rich and some of the weapons we are giving them are being sold on the black market. There is no accountability for these weapons. Tens of millions of aid to Ukraine is being laundered back to US politicians and elites.
There are many countries around the world where injustice is happening, gross human rights violations which we ignore and we choose to massively escalate this war causing mass death and the destruction of an entire country. Ukraine can’t win because they are running out of soldiers. You look at the world like it 1990. It’s not, this is about elites fighting over money and the US trying to keep the dollar as world reserve currency. And fighting against a new global organization that trades in its own currency. I am not a Russian sympathizer just because I recogni the US is every bit as wrong and does evil things all over the world. This ain’t the movies bud. We aren’t the Lone Ranger in a white hat and Russias got a black hat on. The real world is much more complicated than that
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Lost me when you got the year of the Maidan Revolution wrong. 2014, not 2013 bud.

We didn't choose to escalate shit. Russia did when they chose to invade. Hell, we spent weeks if not months before February 24th telling the Russians, "We know you want to invade. Don't do it." The notion that the US giving Ukraine the means to defend itself is "escalation" is laughable. We've bent over backwards to not send Ukraine longer range missile systems and fighter jets. It's also not an "un-winnable" war, not by any stretch. Ukraine is fighting an existential war. Manpower isn't an issue. Equipment and ammunition is.

The real world is indeed quite complicated, but most functioning adults are capable of looking at two parties and saying, "Both do bad things, but one is significantly worse than the other." But of course, this doesn't fit into the GQP narrative. I don't doubt there's some level of money being lost. I'm quite willing to accept that to deal with the broader problem that is Russia.
 
TigerGrowls said:
You could be right but I think Russia knows better than to try and bite off more than it can chew. I think they consider Ukraine as part of Russia. You have a good argument but in the end I go back to how is it in US national security and financial interests to spend hundreds of billions lengthening a war that will be lost anyway with anything short of direct nato involvement?
Click to expand...

They have already, literally, bitten off more than they could chew. They saw a splintered west and divided NATO after the trumpty dumpty admin, and did not count on the unified front.

Russia has gotten their asses kicked. I assure they were did not expect that.
 
clempzenbill said:
You really have no clue. We are knowingly propagating and facilitating an un-winnable war through the puppet Ukraine government the CIA set up in 2013, that is killing hundreds of thousands of people for no reason, other than money and power. Ukraine has no chance against Russia. That is pure evil.
We are no better than Russia in this conflict. The rulers in Ukraine are growing filthy rich and some of the weapons we are giving them are being sold on the black market. There is no accountability for these weapons. Tens of millions of aid to Ukraine is being laundered back to US politicians and elites.
There are many countries around the world where injustice is happening, gross human rights violations which we ignore and we choose to massively escalate this war causing mass death and the destruction of an entire country. Ukraine can’t win because they are running out of soldiers. You look at the world like it 1990. It’s not, this is about elites fighting over money and the US trying to keep the dollar as world reserve currency. And fighting against a new global organization that trades in its own currency. I am not a Russian sympathizer just because I recogni the US is every bit as wrong and does evil things all over the world. This ain’t the movies bud. We aren’t the Lone Ranger in a white hat and Russias got a black hat on. The real world is much more complicated than that
Click to expand...

Easy comrade.
 
LaniKaiTiger said:
Lol, go move to Moscow buddy. Russia’s an enemy of the United States. To the extent we can squeeze the life out of them, we can and should. Drawing a moral equivalence between Putin's Russia and the United States is a flat out embarrassment to anyone who calls themselves an American.

Countries join NATO of their own volition. Gee, I wonder why.
Click to expand...

Biden visiting a warzone in Ukraine. Straight baller move.

apnews.com

Biden declares 'Kyiv stands' in surprise visit to Ukraine

President Joe Biden is back in Poland after an unannounced visit with President Volodymyr Zelenskyy in Ukraine.
apnews.com apnews.com
 
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FpaeuRZXoAca89n
 
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China Joe checking on his personal business investments in Ukraine while the peoples leader Donald J Trump visited East Palestine Ohio where Americans are in dire need of help with the Biden regime initially denying a disaster declaration until shamed into it after Trump decided to visit. This tells you where the priorities are in a nutshell.
 
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This is sad and embarrassing!! This dude is corrupt, on the way to fully senile and arrogant to boot. The rest of the world has to be laughing and/or crying over this spectacle currently in progress.

 
Too bad we didnt have the right leader. This shit would have never hit the fan.

 
Ukraine is not a democracy. Ukraine is a corrupt one party state.

Vlad Putin is more popular in Russia than China Joe is in the United States.

These are facts.
 
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