Anyone going to Bowman tonight?
- Thread starter cottonginner87
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I will not be attending because I do not agree with some of stated positions but fully support the players in their endeavors and hope for a huge crowd.
People should stay home if they can’t social distance. If you feel like you have to go and you can’t social distance, wear a mask. Maybe also think about what the point of you bring there is, given they just moved to change the building and school names.
I'm going to be at Wells Fargo tonight watching @DaBadass and @ForzaTigre throw down
The March for change wasn’t birthed out of a motive to get the buildings names changed. I believe players and coaches want to use their voice to bring awareness and show that regardless of color we can be unified.
What else do you think needs to be changed at Clemson?
I believe this is bigger than Clemson and the players and coaches realize that. This misstep from Dabo early on in my opinion was that in his mind Clemson is a good program with good culture and because if that he didn’t have a ton of weight to carry or insight to give.
The reality of all of this is it is a MASSIVE cultural moment. I believe regardless of your political stance, that is recognizable and early on Dabo didn’t. He now does. Clemson’s influence extends far beyond Pickens county and the football world.
There are inequalities that exist, some overt and some covert. I think what needs to change everywhere, Clemson included, is that people need to be willing to submit their political views in humility before God and search their hearts to find where we have been taught wrong or assumed wrongly. This can start by not assuming that anyone white or black is something that they aren’t or vice versa.
Thats probably more than you asked for, but today has the potential to be a bigger deal for Clemson than most of us can understand. I believe looking back 20 years from now, today will be a marker in the history of our university and state.
I'll be there and I am expecting a huge crowd. I have heard that some places downtown are closing until the march is over
Did I miss something? I thought this was a players-led event. Is Dabo scheduled to be there or to speak?
The only way that protests become inflection points that are talked about in history class is if there are specific actions that come out of it. Some protests resulted in the right to vote, some in the right for gay marriage, etc. The major problem with racism is that specific actions are hard to determine. Nearly everyone agrees there are biases, but when people are asked for specific actionable ideas then it falls apart.
Not the best analogy, but everyone agrees that we need to cut federal spending. Problem is that when someone lists something that should be cut then there is another group of people saying, no way.
A number of things have been tried to level the playing field such as quotas, affirmative action programs, government requirements on using minority owned businesses, standardized testing, standardized prison sentencing. Some have caused more divisiveness, some have been tried and scraped, and some have done some positive.
I will get off my soapbox, but unless specific, reasonable, actions are proposed then the protest will not cause a shift in culture. If all that is done is to eliminate the name Calhoun and Tillman from buildings then there will be no shift.
The players wanted him along with the President, AD and other leaders to be there. The players organized, university is providing logistical and moral support.
Dabo is speaking
This is really a great post! I hope everyone reads it and reflects for a minute.
I plan to take my two sons. We live in a world where if we don’t 100% agree with each other we are enemies. While I don’t agree with defunding police or that all police are bad. I’m trying to teach my sons that God doesn’t see color of skin and neither should we. We support the good police 100% and the right for those to peacefully protest 100%. Go Tigers.
I hope and pray that outside factors are kept away. Unfortunately the event has received enough publicity that agitators may see this as an opportunity to hijack something meant for good.
I guess it’s always good to think through all out comes, but it’s hard for me to see this happening...
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If you don't mind me asking, with what do you not agree?
NOT wanting to start a debate - genuinely curious. I guess I'm wondering/hoping if there are any others who feel as I do - see bold type below.
*MY* opinions:
*I am SO PROUD of the leadership shown by our Senior FB players. Their passion, unity, support of their coach, and desire to make a difference the right way - whether via social media or organized protests- is something many (supposedly) more mature people could learn from. (Also, I'd be willing to bet I won't agree with every thing they support.)
*Black lives matter.
*I do NOT support the organization #BLM! Anyone who thinks they do, should go to the BLM webpage and thoroughly research before throwing out #BLM hashtags. Informed supporters - I hope we can just agree to disagree.
In case anyone makes assumptions after reading the above, here's a little more...
*I think George Floyd was murdered. I hope the person who ended G.Floyd's life is prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, & those who watched/remained silent are also prosecuted.
*While I mourn the unjust way in which Floyd's life was cut short, I do not understand the desire to make his life one of a 'hero/martyr'. He obviously had some struggles, turned his life around, re-lapsed. None of that absolves the officer of responsibility or makes Floyd's death any less of a tragedy. I think we can mourn his death & use it as a catalyst for enacting positive change without making Floyd's life story one to 'honor'. (Prob. didn't state that as well as others could, but I hope my point is understood)
*I SUPPORT LAW ENFORCEMENT - 95% of them are the good guys. What we think of the 5%ers is well-established on this board.
THIS.
YES & thank you!
(although when you said "neither should we", I think you probably meant we should not make assumptions/judgements based on skin color, not that we shouldn't see/validate a person's skin color. I'm NOT trying to be PC - just working to more clearly articulate what I believe)
I welcome and am an advocate for discussions on this subject. As of now, discussions are not permitted and as many people of all races and ideologies are experiencing "If you don't say what they want you to say, when they want you to say it, you are complicit." "They" being the BLM organization and those individuals promoting the BLM agenda.
In regards specifically to the opinions of the leaders of the protest being held Saturday, I have a real issue with two items.
1.) Assigning similar or the same life experiences and challenges to individuals based on skin color.
2.) The definitive statements regarding systemic racism. Racism exists, I could not say it doesn't because I've been the target of racist/bigoted comments on more than one occasion. All I've ever asked for was for the evidence that systemic racism exist. I've located some data that suggest that, in some policing actions, there is a racial disparity. This should be investigated vigorously.
I'm excited for the demonstration scheduled for Saturday and pray that it leads to the beginning of actual discussions/investigations.
I am also praying that outside influences don’t try to highjack the event.
Right. You said it better than me! We should all be proud of the color God made us and accept each other.
Kind of sounds performative to me if there aren’t any concrete local goals.
I’m not sure what the “massive cultural moment” is supposed to be, since it’s been constantly drilled into nearly everybody that everybody is equal. If it’s about police brutality, it’s questionable whether there’s any discrimination, and we’ll just be back here when police inevitably kill a black persons again. The only shift I’ve seen among people so far is that more people feel pressured to parrot critical race theory concepts.
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If it’s associated with the official BLM organization, go take a look at their “What We Believe” page and see what you think: https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/
Just one caveat- protests had nothing to do with recognizing gay couples as married.
Concrete goals:
1. Get members from the community together to show unity, a willingness to listen, and physically move to symbolize the change that Clemson wants to see. (Change in thought, action and legislation)
2. Take a stand that athletes can lead and have an impact beyond a field
3. Meet peacefully to show that their is a way you can be heard without violence
4. It’s the first step of a program the football program has started to bring awareness to inequality. You will hear/see more about this in the future.
Bottom line, everything is to start somewhere. I hope this is helpful!
1. Get members from the community together to show unity, a willingness to listen, and physically move to symbolize the change that Clemson wants to see. (Change in thought, action and legislation)
2. Take a stand that athletes can lead and have an impact beyond a field
3. Meet peacefully to show that their is a way you can be heard without violence
4. It’s the first step of a program the football program has started to bring awareness to inequality. You will hear/see more about this in the future.
Bottom line, everything is to start somewhere. I hope this is helpful!
You could argue that Nuk & DW4 were the driving force behind the 2 University name changes this week and therefore already leading by example this very powerful stated goal
I have read almost all of what is on that website and found several statements that are not in line with my beliefs. So, as I said earlier, while I unequivocally support the statement "Black Lives Matter", I do not support the organization of that same name.
Well the 123 red neck society is out today. Passed about 20 or 30 on side of 123 with flags in hand. All this just make thing worse no need to antagonize this thing. Things that may not be race related will be turned into it. I really don’t know what these guys are protesting.
All good points but this is being driven and these players are being used by BLM which is a hate group no different from the sorry KKK. You’ll see.
The idiots driving through downtown with confederate flags need to go up and tell Jackson Carman why they feel it’s appropriate. Let’s see how that turns out
They are literally proving why this march is happening
