Crying because a kid wears a unc shirt to his own schools basketball game is overly sensitive.
No longer wanting to honor a murderous piece of crap who's family blackmailed the school into naming a building after him is not overly sensitive.
Apparently Tillman name getting changed?
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Crying because a kid wears a unc shirt to his own schools basketball game is overly sensitive.
No longer wanting to honor a murderous piece of crap who's family blackmailed the school into naming a building after him is not overly sensitive.
Yale's cross not ours. Let the people associated with Yale decide who to honor and represent them. At this moment I don't give a flying rip about Yale. They could call it Yell and I'd be fine.
Nice try tho.
The fact that some white people from the South can get themselves all riled up and self-righteous when others call attention to the negative side of our heritage seems remarkably lacking in self awareness.
Our nation and particularly our state's history of widespread support of slavery is deplorable and regrettable. The fact that 40 years after the Civil War, our state continued to treat black Americans in a demeaning and subservient manner denying them the full rights of citizenship to which they were entitled until the late 1960s and beyond is just awful. This should be a great source of shame and regret for all of us whose families lived here and tolerated our own southern apartheid. We were wrong and out of step with much of the world on slavery and we were doing so when our national founding documents and our Bibles told us we were wrong.
The idea that some other group is pushing us too hard to own our past is evidence we have not yet owned it. We should. If that means reclaiming the name MAIN and putting Ben Tillman on a lower shelf of prominence, so be it.
For what it is worth, I was born white in 1950 in Hartsville and attended fully segregated schools, rode on fully segregated city buses and can still vividly recall the shameful and painful way my state treated black Americans. I am not a new or latecomer to this sort of discussion. And I consider myself a conservative Republican and typically vote that way.
Thank goodness the student government of 21st Century Clemson wants to drop the name "Tillman Hall."
Our nation and particularly our state's history of widespread support of slavery is deplorable and regrettable. The fact that 40 years after the Civil War, our state continued to treat black Americans in a demeaning and subservient manner denying them the full rights of citizenship to which they were entitled until the late 1960s and beyond is just awful. This should be a great source of shame and regret for all of us whose families lived here and tolerated our own southern apartheid. We were wrong and out of step with much of the world on slavery and we were doing so when our national founding documents and our Bibles told us we were wrong.
The idea that some other group is pushing us too hard to own our past is evidence we have not yet owned it. We should. If that means reclaiming the name MAIN and putting Ben Tillman on a lower shelf of prominence, so be it.
For what it is worth, I was born white in 1950 in Hartsville and attended fully segregated schools, rode on fully segregated city buses and can still vividly recall the shameful and painful way my state treated black Americans. I am not a new or latecomer to this sort of discussion. And I consider myself a conservative Republican and typically vote that way.
Thank goodness the student government of 21st Century Clemson wants to drop the name "Tillman Hall."
Threatened to withdraw the pledge they made. Clemson needed money really bad and the Tillmans knew it. Strong armed Clemson into doing something they never wanted to do.
I've always thought the method to approach renaming Tillman would be to name it after Ben Skardon. I doubt anyone would argue with naming something after Skardon and it reflects on the military heritage of the school.
But whatever. If it's Old Main then fine.
But whatever. If it's Old Main then fine.
You'd think people would be more pissed about this but you know.....racists. They fight to the death.
No one in this thread, other than Tillman Hall supporters, are talking about slave owning.
Everyone in favor of reverting back to Old Main thinks it's the right thing to do because Tillman was a domestic terrorist, murderer, and ardent racist who actively worked to subjugate (and lynch) blacks post Civil War.
You don't need to eat popcorn and be entertained by what Abe Lincoln says, because democrats and their perception that Lincoln is the savior of those who were anti-racist and was opposed to the racial agenda at that time.
I believe that Lincoln was probably the great president ever. Was he caught up in what the perception and feeling which was predominate at that time? Absolutely. So these left wing democrat socialists should beware about who they attack and point the finger at and accuse as racists. Because as quite often is said, you point a finger at someone else, you have three fingers pointing back at you!
Yeah I just meant in general regarding how pc our society has become. This specific case is different.
I agree we've become too PC. I just hate when people put stuff in the PC category that doesn't belong.
The Board of Trustees declined a name change for Tillman last year. This is a toothless action by students
Jesus man, nobody is saying rename Clemson, Calhoun or anything else. It isn't that Tillman was racist, it was how he was racist.
There were and still are some people that are racist but they would never murder or in some cases hurt someone in the name of that racism.
There are stories of white folks during the course of slavery that died helping free slaves, educate slaves, etc. There were also, so I've heard members of racist organizations that left said organizations because they became violent or crossed a line.
There were slave owners that never murdered a single slave I'm sure. Slavery was an economic deal and no one was going to volunteer to pay the help. They would've had a hard time turning a profit if they were the only plantation owners providing salary and benefits. Sign of the times. I get that. But that doesn't mean you have to be a murderous, hateful piece of crap. Tillman was all of those things and folks fighting to protect him are just sad no matter how you slice it.
There are stories of white folks during the course of slavery that died helping free slaves, educate slaves, etc. There were also, so I've heard members of racist organizations that left said organizations because they became violent or crossed a line.
There were slave owners that never murdered a single slave I'm sure. Slavery was an economic deal and no one was going to volunteer to pay the help. They would've had a hard time turning a profit if they were the only plantation owners providing salary and benefits. Sign of the times. I get that. But that doesn't mean you have to be a murderous, hateful piece of crap. Tillman was all of those things and folks fighting to protect him are just sad no matter how you slice it.
Not yet, but the argument is that once the University caves to outside forces or decides it doesn't want a building named after a racist then the precedent is set.
Amen!!! Some people are so naive that they think this is where it stops??? I want to sell that dude some swamp land in Arabia!!! Or may desert sand for $5,000.00 an ounce!
All of this leftest crap from these delusional people are tearing the very fabric of this country apart. This has been their agenda all along. Socialism. They are just using Donald Trump's idiocy as a reason. All of this will be coming to a head real soon. It will start with antics like we have seen in Japanese and South Korean politics. It will start out by getting to the point of throwing chairs and things at each other. The fisticuffs. Eventually this spreads even more radically to the people. Conflict, riots, and anarchy follows. We are at a precipice right now. If things are not turned around right now it could lead to the end of this democracy as we know. We will be playing right into the hands of the Russians, the very things some are bitching about now.
By the way, the socialist idea of taxing the wealthy to death to give those that did not earn it a piece of the pie did not work in France. The wealthy left France for Germany and Russia. The French president had to repeal some laws and beg the rich to come back. This is the same flawed fatalistic idea that nearly ALL the democratic presidential candidates are pushing! Good luck with that and trying to destroy the greatest economic power the earth has ever seen. Good luck with doing away with air travel and cows because of the methane the cows give off when they fart!!!
You really don’t need to say left wing. It’s redundant. I’m MAGA all the way my man and you couldn’t pay me enough to care about this particular situation. Some of the other monuments and the flag at the state house piss me off a bit and I didn’t even grow up here. Just go back to what it was named originally. I don’t care. I hope they do it just so we can finally stop talking about it. He was a pretty fvcked up individual. Im sure Lincoln and Washington and every president in between said racist things but they didn’t go around lynching people people and who knows what else. Silly to compare that to what Tillman did. Pretty sure Washington put in his will that his were to be freed when Martha died.
I understand that. You can avoid that and just it wasn’t just that he was racist and that it’s because murderous, genocidal, crazy person can answer that with a simple no. Most people don’t agree with the change because he was racist. It’s the laundry list mentioned in this thread about everything other than that.
I’m conservative but the right worried about where will stop argument seems silly to me. I wish you could just use common sense in politics. It’s unfortunate politics are a game to people that even if their side gives an inch it’s consider some epidemic.
Sign me up to fight against not honoring someone because they owned slaves. That is ridiculous since every influential figure that was even on the side of good owned slaves. That argument is simply ridiculous and played out. Thank you for standing up to that excuse.
Why do you “not care”? Does it really not bother you that Clemson has a prominent building named after a murderer? It’s difficult for me to understand how people “don’t care” about this.
What have you done in protest of it being named Tillman Hall? I guess what I’m saying is that I, like most people, have this pretty far down on our give a shit list. Lots of people have real problems they deal with. This won’t go through my head again once until it’s brought up on here again. I already said they should change it and said it was dumb to compare two of the greatest men/presidents of our country. I’m agreeing with you. No need to go all REEE on me. I probably “don’t care” as much as you do.
Tillman was a violent racist. To compare Abraham Lincoln to him is a joke. 150 years ago virtually everyone in the South at least was a racist by today's standards. But what Tillman did and espoused was beyond the pale. He was an admitted murderer. Additionally when Teddy Roosevelt invited George Washington Carver to the White House Tillman avowed that we would now have to Lynch 1000 "******s." An institution of higher learning does not need to honor such a person. I am a southerner who is sick and tired of continuing to fight for this "lost cause." When I consider all of the spectacular black students we have had at Clemson, from Harvey Gantt to Christian Wilkins and thousands in between, I think it is an unnecessary and unwarranted slap in the face to them to continue to have the main building at CU named for such a despicable human being.
The Calhoun Honors College is something the Student Government wants to rename.
