Apparently Tillman name getting changed?
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anon_yqoaxol227dby
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Learn from the past in museums. The university doesn't need a building named after Ben Tillman to learn from the past
I’m pretty sure no one is asking to take down a monument of someone who wasn’t racist. I don’t think it’s too much to ask that we not honor people who supported and celebrated the enslavement and lynching of African Americans.
If it feels like it never ends, then that just implies how much work we have to do.
It was always "Old Main" until 1946.
I hate giving in to our overly sensitive pc culture, but Old Main just sounds cooler to me. And Tillman really did seem like an awful person.
Early reconstruction was an extremely difficult time in the south for both black and white people. Tillman used this time as a prime opportunity to validate his extreme racism and sociopathic nature through mass murder.
Let's get something straight here. Tillman wasn't just your ordinary racist. Even for the time he was a mean, bigoted SOB. Once during a debate Tillman was asked his opinion of the lynchings of black men that were taking place. Tillman ' s reply. "Hell, I'll buy 'em the rope."
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Maybe Yale will change their name,too.Elihu Yale was engaged in the slave trade and stated that none of his English ships should ever leave a port without 10 slaves aboard to be sold.A new appropriate name - I 95 University.
My Dad always referred to this structure as Main Building (1932). There is a picture in his 1933 Taps which has a sketch and the title, Main Building. Would be a neat name.
Have you seen anybody say anything about him being a slave owner in this thread?
They need to worry about going to class instead of finding something to be butt hurt about...you can piss and moan till you are blue in the face, but you aren't going to change history with a meaningless student vote...unless you are a complete moron you know there is a building named after Ben Tillman and yet you weren't upset enough about it not to go to Clemson...the real world is full of things you can pitch a hissy fit about that you aren't going to change...you best learn to deal with it...
From Wikipedia. Yeah, I think it is time to rename it.
Tillman was an ardent racist. In July 1876, he led a group of white supremacists, who called themselves the Red Shirts, into Hamburg, South Carolina to kill six African-American men and murder four others whom the group had captured.
Tillman was an ardent racist. In July 1876, he led a group of white supremacists, who called themselves the Red Shirts, into Hamburg, South Carolina to kill six African-American men and murder four others whom the group had captured.
From the Greenville News:
The building known as Main Building or Old Main was renamed Tillman Hall in 1946 after a push from Tillman’s son, William, who was also a trustee, to name a building after his father because his legacy was being forgotten, Reel said.
The only way the name would be changed is by the legislature. It falls under the Heritage Act & no one ( Board of Trustees, President or anyone else) can change the name.
The End
The End
Tillman is a cool name. Just had some friends name their son that. Sucks to lose it based on history that basically only came back to life because of this internet/google world we live in. Hell, I’ve researched the guy now, but never cared what he was about before. The building name certainly didn’t stand for what the man did.
Can’t defend keeping it now, but still sucks to lose it iyam.
Luckily, Old Main is a cool backup name anyways.
Can’t defend keeping it now, but still sucks to lose it iyam.
Luckily, Old Main is a cool backup name anyways.
The Tillman family financially black mailed the university to rename old main to Tillman hall.
They don't even come close to getting the final say. It's more of a "yeah, you voted to change it. That's cute" thing.
Thank God.
Avatar checks out.
Which means it will probably happen. That's the same thing that was needed to take the Confederate flag off of the statue in front of the State House.
Anyone seen that flag lately?
It's part of my name and my son's name. Doesn't mean I think he was a nice guy.
I just think of it as being named after my grandfather (Tillman was his first name, not his last).
Hell - if that's the case change it and shoot the family a nice birdie finger. I hate when people pull that shit.
This is part of the Democratic left wing socialists. The same ones who are now after actor John Wayne, and anyone who they believe even hinted at some perceived racial comment, or homophobic comment. Are they going to start going back and destroying monuments or things with names of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Abe Lincoln, etc. because they were racists, owned slaves, or said racist comments? This is an attempt by these Democratic party socialist to destroy this nation as we know it, and this attack goes to even the level of names used in southern university buildings!
Maybe we should destroy the reputation of Abraham Lincoln for this perceived racist comment he made in his presidential debate:
“I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races – that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything.” (Abraham Lincoln)
Not many of these democrats are focusing on this. I guess they would if they knew that Lincoln was a republican?
Maybe we should destroy the reputation of Abraham Lincoln for this perceived racist comment he made in his presidential debate:
“I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races – that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything.” (Abraham Lincoln)
Not many of these democrats are focusing on this. I guess they would if they knew that Lincoln was a republican?
I agree that Tillman was a racist and an overall bad person, and I'm okay with changing it back to Old Main (which is cool as has been mentioned several times ITT). But where does this stop if they open up that can of worms? How does Wade Hampton have not one but 2 high schools named after him, a county and a major boulevard when he was a racist, and most likely the head of the klan before becoming the governor. I'm sure this state has lots of things named after racists, and the country does as well so once this ball gets rolling when and where does it stop?
Yeah but back then the beliefs were basically the opposite of what they are now.
Honest question, and something everybody struggles with but don’t exactly question it logically.
why are you so special that you should get what you want, but ‘they’ don’t get what ‘they’ want. I’m assuming the broad brush stroke of ‘they’ means everyone not just like you?
What’s so terrifying about a faction of people gaining something while theoretically not giving up anything yourself.
This instance to me, in general, Is less about preserving history but more about pride and standing firm in the natural tendency we all have that ‘you can’t tell me what to do’.
While it’s true that without Tillman, there may never have been a Clemson university, that’s the only legacy he should have. That’s history and knowledge that can’t and won’t be erased. Honoring him with a name on the most prominent building on campus isn’t worth dying on the hill over. It’s not even it’s historical name. I mean, we all should have been advocating preserving history and had a 1/2 century long fight over the original building name being changed in the first place, right?
I’m as Clemson as Clemson can be. Grandad, dad, 2 uncles, brother, sister, myself and multiple cousins that are Clemson grads. Tillman isn’t someone to be proud of. Integral and historical to Clemson’s roots, sure, and removing his name doesn’t erase the history of his Clemson legacy, for better or worse.
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Based on the renaming of Old Main in 1946, and the fact the re-naming was perhaps done at the urging his son on the Board of Trustees, I would strongly support reverting to the original and historic name of Old Main. As reported here, the renaming of the main building on campus was done at the request of one family and not some state wide Clemson family reverence for Ben Tillman.
Ben Tillman did a great thing when he pushed for the establishment of Clemson to educate the sons of the common people in SC. I thank him for that and I honor that part of his legacy. Much of the rest of Tillman's legacy, including his PITCHFORK BEN nickname is entirely regrettable.
So I support the students of 21st Century Clemson who wish to have the name of most prominent historic building on the Clemson campus revert to its original, historic and more appropriate name, Old Main.
All those in favor, please send me $10 and I'll write a strong letter in support of renaming OLD MAIN (and perhaps designating just one tiny parking space for me on gameday over by the box dorms).
Ben Tillman did a great thing when he pushed for the establishment of Clemson to educate the sons of the common people in SC. I thank him for that and I honor that part of his legacy. Much of the rest of Tillman's legacy, including his PITCHFORK BEN nickname is entirely regrettable.
So I support the students of 21st Century Clemson who wish to have the name of most prominent historic building on the Clemson campus revert to its original, historic and more appropriate name, Old Main.
All those in favor, please send me $10 and I'll write a strong letter in support of renaming OLD MAIN (and perhaps designating just one tiny parking space for me on gameday over by the box dorms).
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Get ready to rename the university and Calhoun mansion too. Let’s just change history entirely. Continually cave to this BS and it will never stop.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/09/clemson-confederate-flag-racist-tillman-hall
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/09/clemson-confederate-flag-racist-tillman-hall
From above article I linked.
For instance, the university was founded by Thomas Greene Clemson, whose vision of a “high seminary of learning” was realized with help from Tillman, who leased “convict” laborers – mostly black – to the institution to help construct its first buildings. And Clemson’s vision, now a public university, was constructed on land that was John C. Calhoun’s slave plantation – yes, that Calhoun: the one who argued that slavery was a “positive good” rather than a “necessary evil” on the US senate floor in 1837.
For instance, the university was founded by Thomas Greene Clemson, whose vision of a “high seminary of learning” was realized with help from Tillman, who leased “convict” laborers – mostly black – to the institution to help construct its first buildings. And Clemson’s vision, now a public university, was constructed on land that was John C. Calhoun’s slave plantation – yes, that Calhoun: the one who argued that slavery was a “positive good” rather than a “necessary evil” on the US senate floor in 1837.
Add in the fact that Clemson was held hostage to name the building after him in the first place. The University never wanted to honor this evil person. They were basically trapped and preyed upon.
This is such an overreaction that’s typical in the fight for ‘you can’t tell me what to do.’
This is a discussion about Tillman Hall and it’s name. Not about all these other things you mention.
But let’s get real, we aren’t talking about name changing on things like Appomattox courthouse, Independence Hall, the Old Exchange Building in Charleston, the Customs House in Charleston, Boston Harbor, the freedom trail, etc. buildings or ‘things’ that have names attached to the sketchy history of its bricks, their role in history, and the treatment of countless people who constructed them.
We’re talking about a Bldg that was posthumously renamed after a guy who by any definition, in any era, is a despicable person. It’s not even the original name.
All of these ‘History advocates’ should be stumping for a name change to its origins before money became more important than its ‘history’. Changing the names of bldgs, as awareness and decency that blends amongst all people continues to grow, doesn’t erode the history that the sticks and bricks of its walls contain. It won’t be lost.
I mean independence Hall used to be called the Pennsylvania State House. And it got changed after it’s prominence for the setting of the Declaration and Constitution draftings and signings. Wonder how it’s possible to know that and that it wasn’t lost in translation?
I’m sure there are countless examples of famously historical structures all over the US whose name you associate it with, wasn’t always that name.
It’s just not a gateway to erosion.
Renaming buildings changes history. You know like that time when Germany stripped the name of all schools, buildings, etc from the Nazis. They forgot their history and our generation never even knew all that stuff happened. Because you know, renaming buildings changes history.
That's the single most dumbest argument in TI message board history.
If I had a building I was responsible for named after OJ Simpson I'd change it and so would many of you. Racists be hiding. Yeah I said it.
Thank you!
I'll go as far as to say owning slaves should not be the reason someone is no longer given such an honor. However, if your reputation and documents or historical accounts prove you were an evil, brutal, murderous slave honor, I wouldn't be mad if folks no longer wanted to honor you in that fashion. This is about people CHOOSING TO NO LONGER HONOR SOMEONE. Nothing to do with history.
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