Big Beautiful Bill - Passes House, Now On To Senate

[Willence]

Cutting taxes for the highest earners and cutting services from our government is a recipe for disaster.

It all started with the idea of trickle down economics. It’s proven to not work.

There is no such thing as trickle down economics. The highest quintile of earners pay ALL of the net taxes in the United States. How much more do you want to confiscate? We will have to cut dramatically at some point. That is a statistical certainty. It's hard to imagine anyone not understanding this. Investors are finally understanding it now.

 

[kudzuking]

I always see these comments and the insinuation that these red states don’t pay their fair share. And how cali and NY are carrying them. It’s simply lazy to say. A simple google search shows the states that contribute the most are cali Texas Florida and NY, hardly blue states as you suggest. Oh and guess who gets the most money from the federal pot by a long shot, cali and NY. EBT and things like that are federal benefits so what exactly are we all about to miss out on? You're repeating propaganda bro.

Pretty clear here

 

[DW4_2016]

There is no such thing as trickle down economics. The highest quintile of earners pay ALL of the net taxes in the United States. How much more do you want to confiscate? We will have to cut dramatically at some point. That is a statistical certainty. It's hard to imagine anyone not understanding this. Investors are finally understanding it now.

Top tax bracket is paying less than ever. lol at all.

 

[TigerGrowls]

🧾🇺🇸 We're Not Broke Because of Math; We're Broke Because of Corruption

This week, Elon Musk declared his intent to step away from politics, citing that he's "done enough" and sees no reason to spend his money on politics. This has fired off a lot of speculation.

I haven't commented on the Big Beautiful Bill until now, mostly because I think both sides are right. It's not enough. But it is also the best we're going to get for a long while.

And that's the crux of the problem.

The most "responsible" plan anyone can come up with still adds trillions to our debt, just at a slightly slower rate. That's the hard truth. Even with the most disruptive leader in modern history, this is where we landed.

Interest rates are creeping up again. After Moody's downgrade, mortgage rates topped 7%, and 30-year Treasuries crossed 5%. In 2023, we collected just under $2.2 trillion in federal income taxes. At 5%, debt interest alone eats up 80% of that. What's left barely covers anything. And the rest of our revenue sources? Mostly payroll taxes, locked up in programs we can't touch.

We are out of money.
We are out of time.
And still, we act like it's not a problem.

I'm not saying this to sound hopeless. But we have to face the truth: this is happening because of a culture of corruption.

Both parties know where the fat is. But even the ones who campaign on responsibility won't touch foreign aid, defense waste, or pet projects. They'd rather swing at Medicaid.

This isn't a math problem; it's a cultural one.

So that’s where my focus is going. Who benefits. Who protects them. Who looks the other way. Because we don't fix this by balancing a budget. We fix it by telling the truth: loudly and clearly, until the rot has nowhere left to hide.

Al Capone didn't fall because the system held him accountable. He fell because someone followed the money.

I'm going to keep doing that.

 

[TheValley91]

There is no such thing as trickle down economics. The highest quintile of earners pay ALL of the net taxes in the United States. How much more do you want to confiscate? We will have to cut dramatically at some point. That is a statistical certainty. It's hard to imagine anyone not understanding this. Investors are finally understanding it now.

Look at the history of tax rates. And how the income gap has grown in this country.

 

[Allornothing]

Hmmm

View embedded media

EVERYONE IN CONGRESS NEEDS TO BE REPLACED! All of them. None of them are doing what they are sent there to do. They should also have term limits, and age limits.

I can't work passed 60 in my job (without a process), but these people are many years far removed from that.

 

[Allornothing]

Look at the history of tax rates. And how the income gap has grown in this country.

EMPLOYED/UNEMPLOYED! There's going to be an income gap.

 

[johnhugh]

Cutting taxes for the highest earners and cutting services from our government is a recipe for disaster.

It all started with the idea of trickle down economics. It’s proven to not work.

Trickle down economics is Santa Claus for adults

 

[fatpiggy]

Look at the history of tax rates. And how the income gap has grown in this country.

Would you be ok if there were no taxes and only tariffs?

 

[TheValley91]

Would you be ok if there were no taxes and only tariffs?

Would you be ok actually facing reality?

 

[DW4_2016]

EVERYONE IN CONGRESS NEEDS TO BE REPLACED! All of them. None of them are doing what they are sent there to do. They should also have term limits, and age limits.

I can't work passed 60 in my job (without a process), but these people are many years far removed from that.

Past*

I really hope you guys decide to spend on education at some point.

 

[scotchtiger]

Look at the history of tax rates. And how the income gap has grown in this country.

Tax rates aren’t a primary driver of income gap. I would say technology is the primary contributor. I can contribute exponentially more value to an organization due to technology compared to what was possible decades ago.

Income should be a derivative of value creation. Technology has allowed highly capable people to create substantially more value than your average laborer or task worker. Hence, substantially higher incomes.

 

[Willence]

Look at the history of tax rates. And how the income gap has grown in this country.

Look at how the more government aid is provided the more the income gap grows. Businesses know when people are receiving benefits and pay accordingly. I also know a number of people that I've talked to who don't want to make more because they would lose all their aid. This is a very complex issue and we've gotten ourselves into a complete mess.

 

[fatpiggy]

Would you be ok actually facing reality?

I'm just wondering if you feel like you need to punish others.

What if you could, theoretically, get all your social services via tariffs. Would that be an acceptable solution to you? Or do you feel the need to take from others.

Just a theoretical question.

 

[Willence]

I'm just wondering if you feel like you need to punish others.

What if you could, theoretically, get all your social services via tariffs. Would that be an acceptable solution to you? Or do you feel the need to take from others.

Just a theoretical question.

The problem with that is we'd have to pay for them via higher prices which is just another tax. How's that progress? Also, there's no possible way to get that much for tariffs because you reach diminishing returns very quickly on tariffs.

 

[yoshi121374]

The problem with that is we'd have to pay for them via higher prices which is just another tax. How's that progress? Also, there's no possible way to get that much for tariffs because you reach diminishing returns very quickly on tariffs.

Yep. I really, really wish more of these MAGAguys, (not including you) would come to the realization that Trump is not a genius when it comes to international Trade and usiness.

Trump is absolutely going to balloon our debt through a combination of tax cuts, and destroying our credit rating which will drive the best service even higher. The idea of a level playing field is fair, but the way they have gone about it is just dumb, and has been riddled with basic accounting errors. I believe that you are in banking, I know you would have never made the idiotic calculation errors that the White House did with the initial "reciprocal tariffs".

Honestly, the only thing I'll give him genius level credit for is self promotion.

 

[Willence]

Yep. I really, really wish more of these MAGAguys, (not including you) would come to the realization that Trump is not a genius when it comes to international Trade and usiness.

Trump is absolutely going to balloon our debt through a combination of tax cuts, and destroying our credit rating which will drive the best service even higher. The idea of a level playing field is fair, but the way they have gone about it is just dumb, and has been riddled with basic accounting errors. I believe that you are in banking, I know you would have never made the idiotic calculation errors that the White House did with the initial "reciprocal tariffs".

Honestly, the only thing I'll give him genius level credit for is self promotion.

He's far less of a balloon than the party you generally vote for. People who support anything democrat ever have no standing to complain. There's a lot I would have done differently but the credit rating thing means nothing. That is a political sword being used far too late. Trump isn't the one who ran insane deficits the last 4 years. He did run much to high deficits during this term though and he's going to do it again.

Both parties demagogue anyone that wants to cut anything. And the media jumps right in any time it's a GOP elected official suggesting we cut. This is the fault of the people and the fact they just don't know much about anything these days. Especially when it comes to fiscal policy.

 

[yoshi121374]

He's far less of a balloon than the party you generally vote for. People who support anything democrat ever have no standing to complain. There's a lot I would have done differently but the credit rating thing means nothing. That is a political sword being used far too late. Trump isn't the one who ran insane deficits the last 4 years. He did run much to high deficits during this term though and he's going to do it again.

Both parties demagogue anyone that wants to cut anything. And the media jumps right in any time it's a GOP elected official suggesting we cut. This is the fault of the people and the fact they just don't know much about anything these days. Especially when it comes to fiscal policy.

Dude. I'm trying to have real conversation, and you say stupid shit like...

"People who support anything democrat ever have no standing to complain."

So you are claiming that the Democratic party in their entire history, has never done a single thing that someone could agree with? You realize how dumb that sounds?

You also should be aware that the bond rates have a massive impact on the US debt.

 

[TheValley91]

Dude. I'm trying to have real conversation, and you say stupid shit like...

"People who support anything democrat ever have no standing to complain."

So you are claiming that the Democratic party in their entire history, has never done a single thing that someone could agree with? You realize how dumb that sounds?

You also should be aware that the bond rates have a massive impact on the US debt.

Give an inch and they take a mile. Can’t have serious conversations with these people.

 

[Willence]

Dude. I'm trying to have real conversation, and you say stupid shit like...

"People who support anything democrat ever have no standing to complain."

So you are claiming that the Democratic party in their entire history, has never done a single thing that someone could agree with? You realize how dumb that sounds?

You also should be aware that the bond rates have a massive impact on the US debt.

No, there are lots of good things Democrats have done. The last balanced budget we had was under a Democrat.

I'm saying the modern version of the party has never met spending they wouldn't like. They are a party of an extensive social services regime. That's a recipe for the disaster and has been thus far. People who support Democrats can't complain because they spend like mad. Just look at literally every city and every state government you can find. It's in the DNA at this point. Demand better and then we can talk. As an independent, I have no freaking use for either party. They are liars, cheats and traitors to the people of this country. Unfortunately, their influence has had a profound impact on the people. Just reading this board reveals that.

 

[yoshi121374]

No, there are lots of good things Democrats have done. The last balanced budget we had was under a Democrat.

I'm saying the modern version of the party has never met spending they wouldn't like. They are a party of an extensive social services regime. That's a recipe for the disaster and has been thus far. People who support Democrats can't complain because they spend like mad. Just look at literally every city and every state government you can find. It's in the DNA at this point. Demand better and then we can talk. As an independent, I have no freaking use for either party. They are liars, cheats and traitors to the people of this country. Unfortunately, their influence has had a profound impact on the people. Just reading this board reveals that.

I have voted for candidates of both parties.

I don't consider myself a Democrat, I vote for the issues and candidates who I most agree with, or respect.

There has never been a single candidate who I either completely agree with, nor completely disagree with.

I Would imagine that is what most of us do. What exactly is the alternative? We vote as our conscience dictates.

 

[Willence]

I have voted for candidates of both parties.

I don't consider myself a Democrat, I vote for the issues and candidates who I most agree with, or respect.

There has never been a single candidate who I either completely agree with, nor completely disagree with.

I Would imagine that is what most of us do. What exactly is the alternative? We vote as our conscience dictates.

That may be the case. However you generally espouse positions held by Democrats. I would venture a guess you're more of a classical liberal which is certainly your right to be. Those kinds of folks are essential to a thriving society. My only point is that increasing debt and deficit are the result of almost all policies on the left. There may be an exception but I can't think of one. They want to government to do pretty much everything.

 

[Dadar]

Would you be ok if there were no taxes and only tariffs?

The future is unknown, but I tend to believe this tariff crap and Trump's political posturing plays right into the hands of China and BRIC for the long game.

 

[BlueRidgedf]

Can we all agree there are no "cuts" only cuts to the increase? Medicare and Medicaid spending is not going down just going up slower.

 

[UpstateTgrFan]

This bill just to proves to me the average American is going to continue to be f*cked regardless of who is in office. No adults in the building to control the debt.

 

[fatpiggy]

The future is unknown, but I tend to believe this tariff crap and Trump's political posturing plays right into the hands of China and BRIC for the long game.

It was a Theoretical question.

Do you feel the need to punish others?

 

[TigerGrowls]

Instructive.




🚨 SCOTT BESSENT says we can "GROW our way" out of debt: "We can both grow the economy and control the debt."

"What's important is that the economy grows faster than the debt."

"If we change the growth trajectory of the country, of the economy, then we will stabilize our finances and grow our way out of this."

 

[fatpiggy]

This bill just to proves to me the average American is going to continue to be f*cked regardless of who is in office. No adults in the building to control the debt.

Not if you buy bitcoin.

There is one place and one place only to hide. In my opinion of course. Been screaming from the mountain tops from a while now

 

[dbjork6317]

I always see these comments and the insinuation that these red states don’t pay their fair share. And how cali and NY are carrying them. It’s simply lazy to say. A simple google search shows the states that contribute the most are cali Texas Florida and NY, hardly blue states as you suggest. Oh and guess who gets the most money from the federal pot by a long shot, cali and NY. EBT and things like that are federal benefits so what exactly are we all about to miss out on? You're repeating propaganda bro.

You’re looking at it from a pure volume perspective. Of course Cali, NY, Texas, and Florida both pay in the most and receive the most - they have the most people. What’s being referenced when people talk about blue states supporting red is the % of what’s paid in vs what’s received.

California paid in 115% of what they received in 2023. NY paid in 132%. Texas paid in 119%. Florida was 106%.

States like MA, WA, NJ, and MN paid in over 150% more than they took. So that’s the argument.

I would agree it’s not that strong of an argument and it’s not that significant of a difference, but on average blue states put in a higher percentage than red states.

 

[TheValley91]

I'm just wondering if you feel like you need to punish others.

What if you could, theoretically, get all your social services via tariffs. Would that be an acceptable solution to you? Or do you feel the need to take from others.

Just a theoretical question.

Your theoretical question isn’t based in reality.

Funding services that overwhelmingly help people that are living paycheck to paycheck (which is 60 percent of the population) isn’t punishment in my eyes. Helping my fellow people when corporations don’t, is not punishment.

I believe in the greater good of society. That as a whole we have to work together and if we can, we all prosper. If you don’t then that’s your business. But don’t try and twist it the other way.

 

[fatpiggy]

Your theoretical question isn’t based in reality.

Funding services that overwhelmingly help people that are living paycheck to paycheck (which is 60 percent of the population) isn’t punishment in my eyes. Helping my fellow people when corporations don’t, is not punishment.

I believe in the greater good of society. That as a whole we have to work together and if we can, we all prosper. If you don’t then that’s your business. But don’t try and twist it the other way.

Whether or not it’s reality is irrelevant to my point. That’s why it is a “theoretical” question.

Would you be ok with tariffs paying for all our social services or do democrats feel the need to punish other to bring them down?

It’s a simple, theoretical, question. I think 99% of the people here understand what a theoretical question is.

Answers from the lefties?

 

[UrHuckleberry]

Whether or not it’s reality is irrelevant to my point. That’s why it is a “theoretical” question.

Would you be ok with tariffs paying for all our social services or do democrats feel the need to punish other to bring them down?

It’s a simple, theoretical, question. I think 99% of the people here understand what a theoretical question is.

Answers from the lefties?

Tariffs would function similar to a national sales tax, and hurt the lower and middle class the most. Someone living paycheck to paycheck or social security to social security etc, pays a much higher percentage of their income on goods that would cost more than the higher earners.

 

[fatpiggy]

Tariffs would function similar to a national sales tax, and hurt the lower and middle class the most. Someone living paycheck to paycheck or social security to social security etc, pays a much higher percentage of their income on goods that would cost more than the higher earners.

That’s not anywhere close to an answer to the question.

If THEORETICALLY there was no need to tax the citizen, would democrats be ok with that?

Or do they view taxing as power to level the playing field and punish success?

 

[MTTiger19]

You’re looking at it from a pure volume perspective. Of course Cali, NY, Texas, and Florida both pay in the most and receive the most - they have the most people. What’s being referenced when people talk about blue states supporting red is the % of what’s paid in vs what’s received.

California paid in 115% of what they received in 2023. NY paid in 132%. Texas paid in 119%. Florida was 106%.

States like MA, WA, NJ, and MN paid in over 150% more than they took. So that’s the argument.

I would agree it’s not that strong of an argument and it’s not that significant of a difference, but on average blue states put in a higher percentage than red states.

You are correct but it’s also important to note that blue states typically have more tax payer funded subsidies and programs such as “housing” or “homeless rehabilitation”. Those blue states tend to have many more illegals on account of the sanctuary cities. Both of those create a huge increase on the tax burden in those states. So while they may pay a little more, they spend way more. I would bet more money is SPENT in just Los Angeles or San Francisco or NYC than all of SC. That’s important to understand.
The other weird part of the fair share argument is people will say that stuff and completely ignore things like infrastructure and roads. SC has low taxes and shitty roads, so if these blue states are contributing so much more, where’s it going? It’s not going to these red states that have sub par infrastructure, it’s probably going over seas or into other large cities or they’re not paying as much as you think. Blue states aren’t carrying the red states.

 

[Dadar]

That’s not anywhere close to an answer to the question.

If THEORETICALLY there was no need to tax the citizen, would democrats be ok with that?

Or do they view taxing as power to level the playing field and punish success?

Not a Dem or Rep here. I do not look at taxes as a means to punish anyone if they are applied without political bias.

If you have a plan for how you can make this work for the future well being of the nation and world we live in, I am all ears.

This is like asking if pigs had wings would they fly? My answer would be that it depends

 

[dbjork6317]

You are correct but it’s also important to note that blue states typically have more tax payer funded subsidies and programs such as “housing” or “homeless rehabilitation”. Those blue states tend to have many more illegals on account of the sanctuary cities. Both of those create a huge increase on the tax burden in those states. So while they may pay a little more, they spend way more. I would bet more money is SPENT in just Los Angeles or San Francisco or NYC than all of SC. That’s important to understand.
The other weird part of the fair share argument is people will say that stuff and completely ignore things like infrastructure and roads. SC has low taxes and shitty roads, so if these blue states are contributing so much more, where’s it going? It’s not going to these red states that have sub par infrastructure, it’s probably going over seas or into other large cities or they’re not paying as much as you think. Blue states aren’t carrying the red states.

What are you talking about? There’s 5 mil people in SC and 8 million in NYC, of course they spend more.

Roads are state responsibility and generally funded by state taxes, no?

 

[UrHuckleberry]

That’s not anywhere close to an answer to the question.

If THEORETICALLY there was no need to tax the citizen, would democrats be ok with that?

Or do they view taxing as power to level the playing field and punish success?

In a magical situation where there is no need, of course I’d be ok.

But if everything I buy is $5 more, I don’t care whether it’s from a sales tax or prices that have raised in response to a tariff.

I make decent money and will be fine either way.

 

[TigerGrowls]

🚨 MIDTERMS: Save this clip. Democrats oppose this. They are on record.

Under the Big Beautiful Bill: "Medicaid will no longer be used to pay for barbaric gender mutilation procedures on minor children. And the 1.4 million illegal aliens who are currently improperly receiving Medicaid benefits will be kicked off the program to preserve it for hard-working American citizens who need it."

GET THIS TO TRUMP'S DESK and it is MORE political kryptonite for the Left.