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Columbia Going to Remote Learning for Remainder of Year

I wouldn’t go as far to call it a scam as a college education does have value …. but its “value” is not worth the cost.

This is my biggest issue with student loan forgiveness. I absolutely could get on board with it, but nothing of what Brandon has done has addressed the “problem”. Patient is bleeding out and Brandon is patting himself on the back for cleaning up, meanwhile has done nothing to address the wound.

I agree with you they didn't solve any problems at a macro level. But, I think your metaphor is missing the people swatting the surgeons hand away from trying a anything meaningful to actually solve the problem. And those folks swatting the surgeons hand away include politicians, special interests, constituents, business and a long list (in any given situation) of folks who don't want the problem to be solved or who stand to lose from solving the problem.
 
I agree with you they didn't solve any problems at a macro level. But, I think your metaphor is missing the people swatting the surgeons hand away from trying an anything meaningful to actually solve the problem. And those folks swatting the surgeons hand away include politicians, special interests, constituents, business and a long list (in any given situation) of folks who don't want the problem to be solved or who stand to lose from solving the problem.
yup … agreed …I just didn’t hear Biden commenting on the problem, only commenting on the forgiveness. I acknowledge that there was only so much he could do, but he could at least address the core problem verbally. By him not at least mentioning it, tells me he is swatting his own hand.

the ones who stand to lose the most are the Universities themselves. Makes me absolutely sick to see the cost of college, compared to entry level salaries all the while hearing that these schools (a lot of them) have 100s of millions or billion dollar endowments and layers upon layers upon layers of support and administrative staff.



To be fair it makes me more sick to hear that corporations are recording record profits and executive bonuses all the while having massive layoffs.
 
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When the existence of Israel meant carving out land from one group of people to give to another, resulting in several hundred thousand people getting displaced (driven from their homes) in the process, it indeed was going to cause a problem. Not that it means Israel doesn’t have the right to exist now or that the reverse would be morally justified either.

Israel won’t recognize a Palestinian state with Fatah running it either. What Israel intends is what we have now. Israel carves up the West Bank and encourages settlement there (war crime per a Geneva convention) while letting the natives administer themselves under Tel Aviv’s thumb. That has nothing to do with Hamas. That’s Israel making a conscious choice to hamstring any prospect of a Palestinian state

You don’t need to expect Hamas or PIJ change to secure peace. Show the Palestinians a way out with dignity, and those groups will whither. Or continue down the current path, and continue to expect the same worsening of the situation.
This is a simplistic history of the region. There was no “carving out of land from one group of people to give to another.” In fact, that land was never controlled by a group of Arabs calling themselves “Palestinian.” It had been controlled, off and on, by Muslims, but not always Arabs, and never by a people with a coherent identity as “Palestinians.”

You may want to check whether Israel has offered a state to Palestinians before. First of all, Palestianian Arabs (they didn’t have much of a national identity until later in the 20th century, after Israel was created) were initially part of Arab countries. Those countries attacked Israel to wipe it off the map. None of them recognized Israel until after Israel occupied territories partitioned to the Arabs in the 6 Days War and after Israel gave the Sinai back to Egypt after the Yom Kippur war. Most recently, Arafat was given a formal offer of a Palestinian state but rejected it because it didn’t include enough (probably, all) of Israel. Let’s also not pretend that Fatah wasn’t a terrorist organization originally bent on erasing Israel, too (the PLO only reminded terrorism and recognized Israel in 1993).

So, again, it’s more than a little facile to expect Israel to give up its own bargaining chips (land) for peace when the entire history of the Arab interaction with Israel is to seek Israeli annihilation, and when the current conflict is with the terrorist government of a territory Israel isn’t even occupying. Every encroachment by Israel has been in response to violence initiated by Arabs.
 
I get that Columbia is a private institution, and if you want to charge people with trespassing I guess it is their right. But I was under the impression that peaceful protests were okay in america, and we had freedom of speech. I'm a little confused why everyone is so up in arms over what's going on. Ice T was right, freedom of speech, just watch what you say about the jews.
Setting aside the classic anti-Semitism here, it’s funny to me that people are protesting an occupation by “non-violently” occupying public spaces
 
Setting aside the classic anti-Semitism here, it’s funny to me that people are protesting an occupation by “non-violently” occupying public spaces
Of course, I must be anti Semitic if I don't support starving and dropping bombs on innocent children
 
Of course, I must be anti Semitic if I don't support starving and dropping bombs on innocent children
Well, there’s credulously believing that’s something that’s going on, and there’s also the paraphrase you included in your post.
 
Well, there’s credulously believing that’s something that’s going on, and there’s also the paraphrase you included in your post.

I may have missed it, but have you said what your ideal solution to the current crisis would be?
 
Leftwing jew haters.

Thats funny. When one of your own made his avatar a swastika, the only people on this board who called him out for it were “leftwing”. The only ones. Many “right wing” posters argued that it was his right under free speech to keep it.
 
Thats funny. When one of your own made his avatar a swastika, the only people on this board who called him out for it were “leftwing”. The only ones. Many “right wing” posters argued that it was his right under free speech to keep it.
This is left-wing hate for Jews on these college campuses? Yes or no?
 
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This is left-wing hate for Jews on these college campuses? Yes or no?

I cannot speak for these students on college campuses. I don’t know if they hate Jews or if they just disagree with how Israel is prosecuting this war.

I can speak for this board. When a poster changes his avatar to a swastika, I call them out. You don’t.
 
I may have missed it, but have you said what your ideal solution to the current crisis would be?
Hamas goes away as a political power, all living hostages are returned, and all the people involved in October 7 are brought to justice. But I don’t think that’s what we’ve been talking about. Instead, we’ve been talking about people who seem to think that not only was Hamas justified, but that the real condemnation should be reserved for Israel because of the total number of deaths in Gaza reported by Hamas.
 
Thats funny. When one of your own made his avatar a swastika, the only people on this board who called him out for it were “leftwing”. The only ones. Many “right wing” posters argued that it was his right under free speech to keep it.
Besides this being irrelevant, does anybody know what this guy is talking about?
 
Besides this being irrelevant, does anybody know what this guy is talking about?

A guy who has since changed his name and remains the only person I've ever blocked on this forum (or any forum for that matter) thought it would be funny to create an avatar that had a swastika not so cleverly "buried" in an lgbtq+ flag.

He did it to troll the libs.

Never faced any discipline from the mods as far as I'm aware. He just had to change his pic.
 
A guy who has since changed his name and remains the only person I've ever blocked on this forum (or any forum for that matter) thought it would be funny to create an avatar that had a swastika not so cleverly "buried" in an lgbtq+ flag.

He did it to troll the libs.

Never faced any discipline from the mods as far as I'm aware. He just had to change his pic.
Pretty clearly attempting to portray certain people as Nazis, not proudly displaying a swastika. Certainly in poor taste. I know I’ve complained about posters saying racist stuff, and one particular poster who was an overt white nationalist.
 
this is what happens when children have never heard the word no. they become adults who expect anything they want to be provided for free, entitled to do whatever they want - not only without consequences but praised for it, and believe all of their opinions to be irrefutable truths.

more succinctly...this is what happens when the inmates run the asylum.
 
Thats funny. When one of your own made his avatar a swastika, the only people on this board who called him out for it were “leftwing”. The only ones. Many “right wing” posters argued that it was his right under free speech to keep it.
I missed this saga. Got any links where people argued for him to keep it?
 
A guy who has since changed his name and remains the only person I've ever blocked on this forum (or any forum for that matter) thought it would be funny to create an avatar that had a swastika not so cleverly "buried" in an lgbtq+ flag.

He did it to troll the libs.

Never faced any discipline from the mods as far as I'm aware. He just had to change his pic.
So just to be clear, you have no problem with the peaceful protestors who are handing out literature with death to america on it, but you won't stand for someone with a swastika symbol? Free speech much?
I am not supporting, or in favor of, anything to do with swastika's but how can you support one and be against the other?
 
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This is a simplistic history of the region. There was no “carving out of land from one group of people to give to another.” In fact, that land was never controlled by a group of Arabs calling themselves “Palestinian.” It had been controlled, off and on, by Muslims, but not always Arabs, and never by a people with a coherent identity as “Palestinians.”

You may want to check whether Israel has offered a state to Palestinians before. First of all, Palestianian Arabs (they didn’t have much of a national identity until later in the 20th century, after Israel was created) were initially part of Arab countries. Those countries attacked Israel to wipe it off the map. None of them recognized Israel until after Israel occupied territories partitioned to the Arabs in the 6 Days War and after Israel gave the Sinai back to Egypt after the Yom Kippur war. Most recently, Arafat was given a formal offer of a Palestinian state but rejected it because it didn’t include enough (probably, all) of Israel. Let’s also not pretend that Fatah wasn’t a terrorist organization originally bent on erasing Israel, too (the PLO only reminded terrorism and recognized Israel in 1993).

So, again, it’s more than a little facile to expect Israel to give up its own bargaining chips (land) for peace when the entire history of the Arab interaction with Israel is to seek Israeli annihilation, and when the current conflict is with the terrorist government of a territory Israel isn’t even occupying. Every encroachment by Israel has been in response to violence initiated by Arabs.
Yes, there was indeed a carving out of land from one group of people to give to another. If you're an Arab living in Jaffa (Tel Aviv didn't exist before the 20th century, so much for history) in 1947, there's nothing fair about the UN saying, "This is part of a Jewish state now." Arabs have been living in the area for well over a thousand years. Arab or Muslim control of Jerusalem exceeds Jewish control of Jerusalem by some margin. Am I to be lead to believe that Jewish people have a uniquely better claim to the land than everyone else? They certainly have a better claim than me. Do they have a better claim than an Arab whose family has been there for hundreds of years? Not particularly, if it all. If we're going to grant Israel credit for the existence of a Kingdom of Israel 3000+ years ago, we shouldn't be quick to dismiss the Arabs of Palestine coming to identify themselves as Palestinian. There wasn't an Israel 100 years ago either. That doesn't mean it isn't real now. A Palestinian today has more right to call himself a Palestinian than a British colonist had to call himself an American in 1776.

Unfortunately for your narrative, there was conflict and a desire for ethnic cleansing before the Arab League invasion in May 1948. Ben Gurion approved Plan Dalet in March 1948. The Deir Yassin massacre was committed in April 1948 by the Irgun, which was every bit a "terrorist" organization (see for example the King David Hotel bombing in 1946). The IDF took control of Lydda and Ramle before expelling +50,000 Arab civilians in July. Did Israel distance itself from the crimes its leaders committed at the time? Nope, it embraced it. Ben Gurion, Begin, and Rabin became PMs. They were allotted land, they didn't want Arabs on it, and they made a concerted effort to kick Arabs out. Both Morris’s and Tessler’s books are good on the subject. Neither is a leftist rag. If you’ve read either, good on you

“If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?”- Ben Gurion

“Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country. … Behind the terrorism [by the Arabs] is a movement, which though primitive is not devoid of idealism and self sacrifice.” - Ben Gurion

“We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, ‘What is to be done with the Palestinian population?’ Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said, ‘Drive them out!’ “- Rabin

“The compulsory transfer of the Arabs from the valleys of the proposed Jewish state could give us something which we never had, even when we stood on our own feet during the days of the First and Second Temple”- Ben Gurion

"We should prepare to go over to the offensive. Our aim is to smash Lebanon, Trans-Jordan, and Syria. The weak point is Lebanon, for the Moslem regime is artificial and easy for us to undermine. We shall establish a Christian state there, and then we will smash the Arab Legion, eliminate Trans-Jordan; Syria will fall to us. We then bomb and move on and take Port Said, Alexandria and Sinai.”- Ben Gurion

When the Palestinians say that they have been the victim of ethnic cleansing, you don’t need to believe them. Innocent, peace-loving Ben Gurion has done the work for you.

Per Ehud Barak, the offer the Palestinians got at Camp David gave Israel sovereignty over the Temple Mount, split the West Bank into two parts with Israel controlling a strip in the middle, and would see the Palestinians cede 8% of the West Bank to Israel. Some smaller amount of land would be swapped back to the Palestinians (other sources claim the ratio was to be 8 or 9 to 1 in Israel’s favor). Gaza would remain separated from the West Bank. The two sides have never been close to agreeing on the status of refugees. Was Arafat obliged to accept that? “We’ll give you a state that we shrink and cut into pieces, and it’s your fault if you reject the opportunity.” Surely you can’t say that the Palestinians had to take any offer shown their way. If you think they ought to have accepted it, fine, but it doesn’t end the issue (or absolve Israel of responsibility). Israel has every reason to get out of the quagmire that is the West Bank, but Likud and the other right-wing parties bank on settler support there. Barak was willing to compromise on that subject. Netanyahu is not, and he’s leading Israel further into the abyss

As it concerns October 7, Israelis and Palestinians both have the right to defend themselves. Neither has a right to vengeance. Hamas attacking the Nahal Oz military base can be considered a legitimate act of resistance. Slaughtering the kibbutzim nearby or ravers elsewhere is quite clearly not. It is similar with Hezbollah. Going after Israeli tanks in South Lebanon is legitimate. Blowing up a Jewish community center in Buenos Aires is murder. Israel didn’t have a problem with Hezbollah (because it didn’t exist) until it occupied South Lebanon

Hamas isn’t a major US ally. Hamas isn’t obligated to receive billions of American aid each year despite the world’s worst kept secret that it has nuclear weapons (thereby making it ineligible to receive said aid). Yahya Sinwar hasn’t addressed Congress multiple times. Hamas can go rot in hell, and Netanyahu can go join them. Outrage at Islamist fascists is automatic. Outrage at Israel for killing more civilians by a factor of at least 10 and maintaining an occupation another people for 50 years is radical. Israel put the Palestinians in a pressure cooker. It needs to take the lid off. They can be racist bullies on their own dime. There’s no cause for the US to be tied down defending them religiously

The simplistic view of history is your own
 
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That is some crazy ass shit right there. The leaders at that university should be fired and publicly vilified.

Maybe @areeves is right. Maybe we are all on the verge of being rounded up into FEMA camps.
Take the “Maybe” out & you have something😎
 
I don't consume much news anymore but I did listen to hedge fund manager Bill Ackman's interview with Lex Friedman. Ackman, a Jew and Harvard alum, went into detail about his battle with Harvard's leaders recently. It is disturbing the way academics think and brainwash the youth. Women and Jews used to be the oppressed. Now it’s all about supporting terrorists and chicks with dicks. Insane.
They’re supporting The NWO Agenda
 
Not going to spend the time digging up the post for you, but luckily if you continue reading this thread @CUT93 just argues for it in the post directly following yours and @TigerGrowls liked it.

@CUT93 is a clown but I just read the post you're referring to and he definitely isn't arguing for use of a swastika anywhere. Don't hurt your credibility by being disingenuous.
 
@CUT93 is a clown but I just read the post you're referring to and he definitely isn't arguing for use of a swastika anywhere. Don't hurt your credibility by being disingenuous.

What are you going on about?

This is exactly what I wrote:

"Many “right wing” posters argued that it was his right under free speech to keep it."

this is exactly what he wrote:

"you won't stand for someone with a swastika symbol? Free speech much?"

You are the one being disingenuous.
 
What are you going on about?

This is exactly what I wrote:

"Many “right wing” posters argued that it was his right under free speech to keep it."

this is exactly what he wrote:

"you won't stand for someone with a swastika symbol? Free speech much?"

You are the one being disingenuous.

He was saying that if you don't have a problem with pro Hamas protesters passing out stuff with "death to America on it" then you shouldn't have a problem with a swastika. You left out that first part out.
 
He was saying that if you don't have a problem with pro Hamas protesters passing out stuff with "death to America on it" then you shouldn't have a problem with a swastika. You left out that first part out.

Yes or no question for you. A simple yes or no will suffice.

Is he saying that having a swastika in your avatar is free speech?
 
Yes or no question for you. A simple yes or no will suffice.

Is he saying that having a swastika in your avatar is free speech?
Yes it is free speech.

Disgusting speech that rivals shouldn't allow on their network, but he should not go to jail or be sued for it.
 
Yes, there was indeed a carving out of land from one group of people to give to another. If you're an Arab living in Jaffa (Tel Aviv didn't exist before the 20th century, so much for history) in 1947, there's nothing fair about the UN saying, "This is part of a Jewish state now." Arabs have been living in the area for well over a thousand years. Arab or Muslim control of Jerusalem exceeds Jewish control of Jerusalem by some margin. Am I to be lead to believe that Jewish people have a uniquely better claim to the land than everyone else? They certainly have a better claim than me. Do they have a better claim than an Arab whose family has been there for hundreds of years? Not particularly, if it all. If we're going to grant Israel credit for the existence of a Kingdom of Israel 3000+ years ago, we shouldn't be quick to dismiss the Arabs of Palestine coming to identify themselves as Palestinian. There wasn't an Israel 100 years ago either. That doesn't mean it isn't real now. A Palestinian today has more right to call himself a Palestinian than a British colonist had to call himself an American in 1776.

Unfortunately for your narrative, there was conflict and a desire for ethnic cleansing before the Arab League invasion in May 1948. Ben Gurion approved Plan Dalet in March 1948. The Deir Yassin massacre was committed in April 1948 by the Irgun, which was every bit a "terrorist" organization (see for example the King David Hotel bombing in 1946). The IDF took control of Lydda and Ramle before expelling +50,000 Arab civilians in July. Did Israel distance itself from the crimes its leaders committed at the time? Nope, it embraced it. Ben Gurion, Begin, and Rabin became PMs. They were allotted land, they didn't want Arabs on it, and they made a concerted effort to kick Arabs out. Both Morris’s and Tessler’s books are good on the subject. Neither is a leftist rag. If you’ve read either, good on you

“If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?”- Ben Gurion

“Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country. … Behind the terrorism [by the Arabs] is a movement, which though primitive is not devoid of idealism and self sacrifice.” - Ben Gurion

“We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, ‘What is to be done with the Palestinian population?’ Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said, ‘Drive them out!’ “- Rabin

“The compulsory transfer of the Arabs from the valleys of the proposed Jewish state could give us something which we never had, even when we stood on our own feet during the days of the First and Second Temple”- Ben Gurion

"We should prepare to go over to the offensive. Our aim is to smash Lebanon, Trans-Jordan, and Syria. The weak point is Lebanon, for the Moslem regime is artificial and easy for us to undermine. We shall establish a Christian state there, and then we will smash the Arab Legion, eliminate Trans-Jordan; Syria will fall to us. We then bomb and move on and take Port Said, Alexandria and Sinai.”- Ben Gurion

When the Palestinians say that they have been the victim of ethnic cleansing, you don’t need to believe them. Innocent, peace-loving Ben Gurion has done the work for you.

Per Ehud Barak, the offer the Palestinians got at Camp David gave Israel sovereignty over the Temple Mount, split the West Bank into two parts with Israel controlling a strip in the middle, and would see the Palestinians cede 8% of the West Bank to Israel. Some smaller amount of land would be swapped back to the Palestinians (other sources claim the ratio was to be 8 or 9 to 1 in Israel’s favor). Gaza would remain separated from the West Bank. The two sides have never been close to agreeing on the status of refugees. Was Arafat obliged to accept that? “We’ll give you a state that we shrink and cut into pieces, and it’s your fault if you reject the opportunity.” Surely you can’t say that the Palestinians had to take any offer shown their way. If you think they ought to have accepted it, fine, but it doesn’t end the issue (or absolve Israel of responsibility). Israel has every reason to get out of the quagmire that is the West Bank, but Likud and the other right-wing parties bank on settler support there. Barak was willing to compromise on that subject. Netanyahu is not, and he’s leading Israel further into the abyss

As it concerns October 7, Israelis and Palestinians both have the right to defend themselves. Neither has a right to vengeance. Hamas attacking the Nahal Oz military base can be considered a legitimate act of resistance. Slaughtering the kibbutzim nearby or ravers elsewhere is quite clearly not. It is similar with Hezbollah. Going after Israeli tanks in South Lebanon is legitimate. Blowing up a Jewish community center in Buenos Aires is murder. Israel didn’t have a problem with Hezbollah (because it didn’t exist) until it occupied South Lebanon

Hamas isn’t a major US ally. Hamas isn’t obligated to receive billions of American aid each year despite the world’s worst kept secret that it has nuclear weapons (thereby making it ineligible to receive said aid). Yahya Sinwar hasn’t addressed Congress multiple times. Hamas can go rot in hell, and Netanyahu can go join them. Outrage at Islamist fascists is automatic. Outrage at Israel for killing more civilians by a factor of at least 10 and maintaining an occupation another people for 50 years is radical. Israel put the Palestinians in a pressure cooker. It needs to take the lid off. They can be racist bullies on their own dime. There’s no cause for the US to be tied down defending them religiously

The simplistic view of history is your own
This is a heavily, heavily skewed gloss on the history of the region that can only come from an activist mindset. The equivalence at the end is really gross.
 
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This is a heavily, heavily skewed gloss on the history of the region that can only come from an activist mindset.
It also ostensibly mischaracterizes people’s positions using out of context quotes and ignores some important factors including historical context. Odd coming from @LaniKaiTiger who is clearly knowledgeable and well-educated (history professor if I’m recalling correctly?).
 
Crazy they let some Pro-Palestine crazies determine, what they can or cannot do at their university. A Jewish professor was actually banned from the campus, yesterday. His keycard was disabled. Jewish students have also been blocked from entering by protesters.
I actually agree with this. College students are always protesting about some shit or another. It's what they do. I'd be willing to be that the jewish professor was banned for something else besides being a Jew, I'd like to see what he was banned for. But your point is well taken...

Protestors have the right to protest. I'm OK with that even if I don't agree. But they DON'T have the right to stop people from getting on campus, disrupting campus, or threatening/harming anyone. Time for the police to arrive and smack a few protesters down or use some crowd control methods to get these folks settled down. I'm sure a few of them will act against the police... I've no problem with THEM being settled down by way of the emergency room on their way to prison.
 
It also ostensibly mischaracterizes people’s positions using out of context quotes and ignores some important factors including historical context. Odd coming from @LaniKaiTiger who is clearly knowledgeable and well-educated (history professor if I’m recalling correctly?).
It’s the kind of “history” where someone searches for quotes suggesting support for their agenda, and then uses them as proof of an overall narrative that isn’t consistent with general the general behavior of the actors. This starts with ignoring the context of changing borders after WW2, and of the argument for Zionism at the time (and, looking at what’s been going on over the last year, those arguments still seem to hold), and progresses into ignorance of Jewish history in Israel, Jewish immigration to Israel, the contested nature of Palestine throughout its post-Roman history (and its Roman history), and of the Jewish presence in Israel throughout. It also ignores that early Palestinian nationalist sentiment was led by people like Amin Al-Husseini who wanted to collaborate with Hitler to exterminate the Jews.

Deir Yassin involved the Irgun going overboard in response to being shot at by Arabs in the village, and it was reprehensible. But it also was within the context of a war, and frankly what happened wasn’t as unusual as Israel and other western country’s general moral approach to war. And yet, despite the many Arab atrocities in that war and since then, Deir Yassin is treated as emblematic of Arabs’ grievance against Israel.

This isn’t to say that Arabs can’t make some sort of claim to Israel and Palestine, but that if we don’t think the long Jewish history in Palestine gives Jews a stronger claim to the land than Arabs because of the Arab seizure of Palestine from the Greeks and Crusaders, or because Muslim Ottomans ruled Palestine more recently, or if we think there’s an equality between those claims, then that doesn’t only undercut the historical legitimacy of Israel- it also undercuts all claims of definitive historical claims to the land. Setting aside the fact that there was no (or no significant) Palestianian Arab nationalism except in reaction to Zionism, and setting aside that zionists largely bought Arab land which was sold freely before the Arabs attacked Israel in 1948, acknowledgment of competing historical claims with similar legitimacy basically resets the clock and forces us to ask whose claims and actions have been more legitimate since 1948. And since that time, it’s been Israel that has acted responsibly and Arabs who’ve resorted to invasion and terror, while rejecting peaceful national settlement. In the most amoral terms, Israel has also been strongest and able to set up a parliamentary liberal democracy surrounded by illiberal states, while it appears that the most legitimate government of Palestianians is currently unsupported (in favor of a terrorist party). In other words, bracketing historical claims, if Palestinians are justified in their violent resistance to Israel, then Israel is also justified in its violent response. We can only really ask who is currently behaving most responsibly.
 
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