Dept. of Government Efficiency - Elon/Vivek leading DOGE

[fatpiggy]

Couple that with people actually having to write a check to pay their taxes instead of having it deducted from their paycheck, and I think accountability for Government spending will come very fast and stick around for a long time.

For those of us that do write checks, it hurts to see that government waste. It pisses me off.

 

[yoshi121374]

Instead of just looking for ways to cut, we are looking for ways to streamline so that the same mistakes are not made in the future. Design a system or negotiate contracts so that we do not have excess. That is all we are asking for. If someone was paying attention, we would never have thousands of extra subscriptions that are not being used. You, correctly, point out that there are some valid reasons for overlap, but the person in charge it's their job to streamline that. Why hasn't it been done? I think that is where people are frustrated.

You being in the private business world know that every $ counts. Competition is tough. When we see government dollars wasted like that we think of how many hours it would take for us to make that kind of money. We think of it as bloat. That doesn't mean your observations are incorrect. We are just demanding better performance. We want accountability in government equal to, or greater than, the scrutiny we face in the private world.

Put the government expenses on the blockchain for the world to see. That would be a good start. Let us see what we are spending our money on. Who sponsored the bill and who voted for / against it. Let that be searchable on the blockchain for the world to see. If we have accountability, it will be harder for things to get out of hand. I don't think much of the public knew what our money was being spent on.

Again, I don't know many people who would argue with that.

My biggest issue is how it's being presented as if there is willfully fraud, when sometimes it's poor management. Most of this stuff is being presented as if it's some nefarious thing happening, which excited the base, but makes it hard to take it seriously.

 

[fatpiggy]

Again, I don't know many people who would argue with that.

My biggest issue is how it's being presented as if there is willfully fraud, when sometimes it's poor management. Most of this stuff is being presented as if it's some nefarious thing happening, which excited the base, but makes it hard to take it seriously.

I agree, and have stated previously, that much of what is being touted is spending republicans simply disagree with instead of outright fraud.

But i lived in Chicago long enough to know there is outright fraud. If I see a little fraud with my own two eyes, imagine how much goes on in the grand scheme of things. How much and what percentage is it of total spending? I won't pretend to know. But I am certain it is there. Absolutely, 100% certain it's there just by the law of averages.

I do think it is worth pointing out the spending we disagree with, and advertising it too. I think a lot of democrats would disagree with it too, they just didn't know we were spending that money in those places. So, sunshine is the best disinfectant, and we certainly had a spending infection. If one does not admit that we had a spending problem they are not arguing in good faith.

I understand and somewhat agree with your viewpoint that the information could be presented in a better manner. However, there were people like Thomas Massie, Ron Paul, and a couple democrats too, that have been screaming at the rooftops about spending and no one seems to listen. Now that its hitting everyone's pocket via inflation, people want results. Results only come through difficult cuts. But they have to be done if we want inflation to subside. Everyone, republicans and democrats, were pissed at inflation. It was either the first or second biggest issue in the election (immigration being the other).

So, while i see your point about presenting the information in a better manner, that did not seem to work previously and thus here we are.

 

[dpic73]

"Misinformation spreads fast—sharing to set the record straight."

 

[yoshi121374]

I agree, and have stated previously, that much of what is being touted is spending republicans simply disagree with instead of outright fraud.

But i lived in Chicago long enough to know there is outright fraud. If I see a little fraud with my own two eyes, imagine how much goes on in the grand scheme of things. How much and what percentage is it of total spending? I won't pretend to know. But I am certain it is there. Absolutely, 100% certain it's there just by the law of averages.

I do think it is worth pointing out the spending we disagree with, and advertising it too. I think a lot of democrats would disagree with it too, they just didn't know we were spending that money in those places. So, sunshine is the best disinfectant, and we certainly had a spending infection. If one does not admit that we had a spending problem they are not arguing in good faith.

I understand and somewhat agree with your viewpoint that the information could be presented in a better manner. However, there were people like Thomas Massie, Ron Paul, and a couple democrats too, that have been screaming at the rooftops about spending and no one seems to listen. Now that its hitting everyone's pocket via inflation, people want results. Results only come through difficult cuts. But they have to be done if we want inflation to subside. Everyone, republicans and democrats, were pissed at inflation. It was either the first or second biggest issue in the election (immigration being the other).

So, while i see your point about presenting the information in a better manner, that did not seem to work previously and thus here we are.

It's also fairly disingenuous to claim the point is to cut the deficit, while immediately saying that you are going to send the savings back as a refund instead of paying down debt.

 

[UrHuckleberry]

I agree, and have stated previously, that much of what is being touted is spending republicans simply disagree with instead of outright fraud.

But i lived in Chicago long enough to know there is outright fraud. If I see a little fraud with my own two eyes, imagine how much goes on in the grand scheme of things. How much and what percentage is it of total spending? I won't pretend to know. But I am certain it is there. Absolutely, 100% certain it's there just by the law of averages.

I do think it is worth pointing out the spending we disagree with, and advertising it too. I think a lot of democrats would disagree with it too, they just didn't know we were spending that money in those places. So, sunshine is the best disinfectant, and we certainly had a spending infection. If one does not admit that we had a spending problem they are not arguing in good faith.

I understand and somewhat agree with your viewpoint that the information could be presented in a better manner. However, there were people like Thomas Massie, Ron Paul, and a couple democrats too, that have been screaming at the rooftops about spending and no one seems to listen. Now that its hitting everyone's pocket via inflation, people want results. Results only come through difficult cuts. But they have to be done if we want inflation to subside. Everyone, republicans and democrats, were pissed at inflation. It was either the first or second biggest issue in the election (immigration being the other).

So, while i see your point about presenting the information in a better manner, that did not seem to work previously and thus here we are.

Not really buying the argument of "calmly presenting facts, cleaning up actual fraud, etc" didn't work so now we have to...checks notes...completely make up a nefarious bad guy and say they are causing massive fraud and its a conspiracy/money laundering/HUGE kickbacks/etc, to get traction on these various fraud or poor management issues. You know that's ridiculous, but you support what they're doing and its not your side being lied about so you're fine with it. It is what it is.

There is definitely fraud, and a lot of it actually is caught and is prosecuted every single day. Just like there is tax fraud. And why putting a little money into a department like DOGE would actually save money in the whole. Same reason I think its good to have departments like the IG doing audits and investigations into every department. You could have DOGE implanted in every department looking for inefficiencies, ways to reduce fraud, etc. I could get behind that. Was why I supported additional IRS agents. The right went crazy with conspiracy theories, but honestly, more IRS agents auditing the largest companies, wealthiest, etc would likely save us money in the long run (and a lot of the # were going to be customer service agents I believe, which is a huge need as unfortunately our tax code is confusing, but helping people up front would help lower tax fraud as well as it is sometimes innocent mistakes).

 

[fatpiggy]

It's also fairly disingenuous to claim the point is to cut the deficit, while immediately saying that you are going to send the savings back as a refund instead of paying down debt.

Let's be fully transparent.

They threw out the idea of 20% of the savings being returned to the taxpayers.

Some liked the idea, some did not. I can see arguments for both sides.

 

[fatpiggy]

Not really buying the argument of "calmly presenting facts, cleaning up actual fraud, etc" didn't work so now we have to...checks notes...completely make up a nefarious bad guy and say they are causing massive fraud and its a conspiracy/money laundering/HUGE kickbacks/etc, to get traction on these various fraud or poor management issues. You know that's ridiculous, but you support what they're doing and its not your side being lied about so you're fine with it. It is what it is.

There is definitely fraud, and a lot of it actually is caught and is prosecuted every single day. Just like there is tax fraud. And why putting a little money into a department like DOGE would actually save money in the whole. Same reason I think its good to have departments like the IG doing audits and investigations into every department. You could have DOGE implanted in every department looking for inefficiencies, ways to reduce fraud, etc. I could get behind that. Was why I supported additional IRS agents. The right went crazy with conspiracy theories, but honestly, more IRS agents auditing the largest companies, wealthiest, etc would likely save us money in the long run (and a lot of the # were going to be customer service agents I believe, which is a huge need as unfortunately our tax code is confusing, but helping people up front would help lower tax fraud as well as it is sometimes innocent mistakes).

Instead of hiring 80,000 IRS agents, I would much rather, 100 times over, make the tax code less complex. That would be a much more efficient solution.

 

[UrHuckleberry]

Instead of hiring 80,000 IRS agents, I would much rather, 100 times over, make the tax code less complex. That would be a much more efficient solution.

I have no issues with that either. Was more just an example, and me saying I'm not against the idea of efficiencies, better management, etc.

 

[CUTiger1977]

 

[dpic73]

@fatpiggy thoughts?