You do realize and have stated that you realize that you are far from the norm on your position on this topic?
DOD Policy on Abortion Care
- Thread starter dpic73
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You do realize and have stated that you realize that you are far from the norm on your position on this topic?
I am outside what a lot of people think because I believe if the pregnancy is viable it should be carried to term in all cases. I am only for ending a pregnancy if the life of the mother is in jeopardy or if we're dealing with a stillborn/unsurvivable situation. Most people want to add other conditions to everything. That's why I said what I did. But you have argued and poor faith and tried to use my statement as a way to disqualify what I am saying.
The fact is that it is a baby growing inside of a woman and seeking to kill that child is barbaric and evil. Since you support that kind of thing or think it doesn't concern you, I know all I need to know about you. It just makes me very sad and I can't fathom how you would feel that way about a child. It's just unfortunate because you're one of those people that tries to find the middle path and there is no middle path in this case.
From what I have observed, when it's a left leaning issue you take the middle road and say it doesn't concern you. When it's something toward the right you get all outraged and go after people. What @TigerGrowls says isn't hurting you either but you go after him with a vengeance every chance you get. It's people like you who stood by and allowed the worst horrors of history to occur. You didn't cause the terrible things and you don't seek them but you're too self-absorbed to take a stand against what is wrong. That's pathetic.
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So because I take the position that a women deciding what to do with her body isn't my place to decide, you are claiming that makes me equivalent to the worst people in history? You don't think that's a little bit of a stretch?
Comparing my position on a women's right to choose to the insane ramblings and falsehoods that Tigergrowls posts is not even a false equivalence. My position understands that there is nuance and it's very hard to legislate morality. Growls is just falsehoods and crazy.
Just for curiosity are you in favor of the death penalty?
there's that church and state thing again, but i guess since it aligns with your morals you're cool with trampling all over the constitution.
THIS I can respect for sure and I wish more folks would say it and support it. I get your opposition to abortion and personally, I think that anyone who doesn't struggle with this issue is crazy. I don't agree with your stance, but I understand it and can respect it.
The problem here is that MOST of the folks who are on your side of the abortion fight DON'T agree with you. The same folks that overturned Roe v Wade also let Hobby Lobby NOT provide birth control as part of their health insurance package.
These same folks are the ones that protest sex education in schools. Promote no sex before marriage and a host of other things that DON'T support kids not getting pregnant. Hell most of them are against the
My wife had a good friend back when we lived in SC that worked at USCjr with her and our kids went to school together. She got pregnant and the tests said that she'd have a Downs kid. I know she and the wifey had a ton of talks about it... she was concerned of course on having to take care of the kid for the rest of her and her husband's lives. Her BIGGEST concern was what would happen to the kid when they died... they were going to have to figure out a way to support the kid for the rest of HIS/HER life AND her other child was going to have to take over that chore when they died. She was really concerned about hanging that anchor around her other child's neck.
My wife and I discussed the situation and didn't know what we'd do if it were us. Then one day she wasn't pregnant anymore... I respect the decision.
Once again... All about states rights and personal freedom, RIGHT up until those rights and freedoms don't align with personal beliefs... THEN bring in the Feds.
Exactly. Just easy to judge when you aren't the one facing a life with severe challenges.
I am not going to tell someone I know better than they do for their life, particularly when I'm not taking care of their special needs child after they die.
This is pretty much where I fall. A couple of points/questions to add(not directed at you scotchtiger).
For people who see abortion as unquestionable murder, there is no justification for it. It is no different for them than trying to justify murdering a toddler for some reason.
Along those same lines, lets expand the "my body" argument. If you have a situation where say, conjoined twins are both using one of the twins organs to survive, do you support that twins right to remove the other twin from their body?
He will say that we are trying to confuse the issue. He has admitted that he is extreme on this issue and knows he is not logical about it, He sees it as child murder from the moment the egg is fertilized.
Whats it like to be so gutless? You can't criticize anything on the far far left.
Are you saying that separation of church and state is in the constitution?
While not explicitly stated in the Constitution, the Establishment Clause has been historically interpreted to mean a separation of Church and State.
It's a living document, so the interpretation is as important as the actual words, particularly as modernization brings issues that the original drafters couldn't have possible imagined.
You don't read so well. I never said you were equivalent or even one of those people. I said you're the type that allowed them to come into power and just looked the other way. This is the problem with you @yoshi121374 . You can't really win an argument with facts so you stretch what other people say to try and delegitimize their viewpoint. How's that operating in good faith? You keep using the phrase "woman's right to choose" and that's really inaccurate and a dehumanizing way of portraying this. In that "choose" is the ability to murder a child. "Choose" harbors the power to kill as a right. When has that ever been a right? You're so warped that you don't even see it and the words you use mask that. It's really quite sad.
No, I am not in favor of the death penalty. In fact, one of my really good friends is doing prison ministry and he just did that on death row and I am planning to get involved as well to try and work with people. We have to put ourselves out there and serve others to make the world better.
Here again is you twisting things to try and delegitimize what I am saying. I never said I'm not logical. I am science and morality based 100%. You are the non-logical because you want to call murder "choosing." Who is the extremist here? Who is not logical?
And you don't seem to understand that both legally and in most people's mind a fertilized egg is not a baby and it isn't murder. We can debate the time frames, we can debate when that happens, but legally, it's not murder so I'd appreciate it if you would maybe stop thinking you are the morality police.
I am always open to debate, I have admitted many times when In not an expert, however, there are topics that I feel that I have some experience and insight, such as education,eyecare, food service, religion etc and I am pretty passionate about those topics because I have done my homework and know the subject matter.
I'm not going to debate Mortgages with you,that's your field. I bow to your expertise there.
As folks like you tend to say, follow the science. At one time, most people through slavery was OK. It's amazing to me how people will use consensus as some kind of moral truth or acceptable answer. It's just not and most people don't even want to dig in and understand the realities of abortion. I'm talking about reality and science, not opinion and the ostrich-like manner in which we conduct most things these days.
I'm not police of any kind. When you end a life against its with and without its consent, it's murder. We say that about animals and people these days. So you can decide you want to hide behind some really flimsy notions if you like but murder is murder. And as I previously said, we're not debating conception here. That's what I believe based on science and all available evidence. In the world we live in, I would go for 15-weeks in a heartbeat. I know society isn't ready for something more than that. But even 15-weeks would create a massive riot on the left.
Again, as I stated many times, people who are for the cause of life need to win the argument first. There's literally years of work to be done in that regard. Government bans on everything aren't the way to do that. As you said, we can't legislate morality. The horrors of abortion must be revealed and people have to be willing to look before we can see a change.
Lastly, it's not about you being open to debate. It's about how you do it. You do not debate in good faith. As is the case in this thread many times over, you constantly try to delegitimize things said because you don't have another answer. You've taken me out of context multiple times. You know how you should see you're out there in fantasyland? Look at who is liking your posts? He's just reading along and loving this and he is a completely unhinged partisan.
(And yes, I know @TigerGrowls likes some of my posts and while I like him, he is also an unhinged Trumpy. He knows I have an issue with him on that stuff. I just keep waiting for him to awaken from that! )
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion? or some such nonsense.
As folks like you tend to say, follow the science. At one time, most people through slavery was OK. It's amazing to me how people will use consensus as some kind of moral truth or acceptable answer. It's just not and most people don't even want to dig in and understand the realities of abortion. I'm talking about reality and science, not opinion and the ostrich-like manner in which we conduct most things these days.
I'm not police of any kind. When you end a life against its with and without its consent, it's murder. We say that about animals and people these days. So you can decide you want to hide behind some really flimsy notions if you like but murder is murder. And as I previously said, we're not debating conception here. That's what I believe based on science and all available evidence. In the world we live in, I would go for 15-weeks in a heartbeat. I know society isn't ready for something more than that. But even 15-weeks would create a massive riot on the left.
Again, as I stated many times, people who are for the cause of life need to win the argument first. There's literally years of work to be done in that regard. Government bans on everything aren't the way to do that. As you said, we can't legislate morality. The horrors of abortion must be revealed and people have to be willing to look before we can see a change.
Lastly, it's not about you being open to debate. It's about how you do it. You do not debate in good faith. As is the case in this thread many times over, you constantly try to delegitimize things said because you don't have another answer. You've taken me out of context multiple times. You know how you should see you're out there in fantasyland? Look at who is liking your posts? He's just reading along and loving this and he is a completely unhinged partisan.
(And yes, I know @TigerGrowls likes some of my posts and while I like him, he is also an unhinged Trumpy. He knows I have an issue with him on that stuff. I just keep waiting for him to awaken from that! )
I'm living in fantasyland? Growls is never going to awaken from Trump. You and I should probably just agree to disagree.
So you're going to drag me into your melodramatic moral hysteria? I'll respond with one of your heroes.As folks like you tend to say, follow the science. At one time, most people through slavery was OK. It's amazing to me how people will use consensus as some kind of moral truth or acceptable answer. It's just not and most people don't even want to dig in and understand the realities of abortion. I'm talking about reality and science, not opinion and the ostrich-like manner in which we conduct most things these days.
I'm not police of any kind. When you end a life against its with and without its consent, it's murder. We say that about animals and people these days. So you can decide you want to hide behind some really flimsy notions if you like but murder is murder. And as I previously said, we're not debating conception here. That's what I believe based on science and all available evidence. In the world we live in, I would go for 15-weeks in a heartbeat. I know society isn't ready for something more than that. But even 15-weeks would create a massive riot on the left.
Again, as I stated many times, people who are for the cause of life need to win the argument first. There's literally years of work to be done in that regard. Government bans on everything aren't the way to do that. As you said, we can't legislate morality. The horrors of abortion must be revealed and people have to be willing to look before we can see a change.
Lastly, it's not about you being open to debate. It's about how you do it. You do not debate in good faith. As is the case in this thread many times over, you constantly try to delegitimize things said because you don't have another answer. You've taken me out of context multiple times. You know how you should see you're out there in fantasyland? Look at who is liking your posts? He's just reading along and loving this and he is a completely unhinged partisan.
(And yes, I know @TigerGrowls likes some of my posts and while I like him, he is also an unhinged Trumpy. He knows I have an issue with him on that stuff. I just keep waiting for him to awaken from that! )
So you're going to drag me into your melodramatic moral hysteria? I'll respond with one of your heroes.
No, I don't really care to even discuss things with you. I'm sure you feel the same way. You drag yourself in with the laugh emojis and likes of other posts. As for your meme, ironic meme is ironic!
You're absolutely correct because I have very little patience for your nonsense. Just because you believe you are the only one who knows what defines life, murder and how people should behave in light of your superior knowledge, you are not the final answer, so save your lectures that I will never sign up for.
What's frustrating is you don't seem to understand that when you have decided that any abortion after inception is murder and you aren't at all willing to debate or acknowledge that most people don't feel this way, there isn't any point in discussing it with you.
You aren't at all flexible in that belief which is your right, but it also means that there is zero point in discussing it with you. You aren't willing to discuss topics with an open mind,or any sort of flexibility, you are staunch in your feelings about Education, no matter what proof, arguments, facts are shown, you don't care and don't acknowledge. You still won't admit that you were flat wrong about the furry using a litter box at a local school. You blame others for feeding you bad info.
I have no bad will towards you at all, but if you want to debate, you have to understand that others bring their experiences,their knowledge, and their feelings to the debate as well. If all you say is," This is what I believe and you are wrong," what's the point?
FWIW, I never said I define life. Again, you just don't read so well. Life is defined by God and further substantiated by science. My opinion has no role whatsoever in this. What I think could not matter less. We call it a baby from the time of conception because we instinctively know that's what it is. We mark the due date for the birth of baby from the time of conception because that's how long it takes for the baby to fully form in the womb. These aren't my opinion and I have nothing to do with any of these facts. So it's not a lecture from me. It's just the inconvenience of reality for your depraved perspective on things. That's not my doing bud!
I don't think you heard me when I told you to save it. I will not comply with your teachings Pastor Willy
And again, this is where you demonstrate a profound inability to read! So I will try simple.
Did you not see where I said that 15 weeks would work for me?
What is so problematic about my own view based on God's Word and science about conception? Are you under the impression the baby isn't growing once it is conceived? Do you think at 16 weeks or 20 weeks it just appears out of thin air? What's remarkable is that in your argument, you're the one deciding when it becomes a life worth protecting and when it isn't.
Good gosh...this furry thing again. You bring that up to try and discredit what I said. I did admit I was wrong to bring that up because it was second hand info that I could not verify and I shouldn't have said anything. What more do I need to say there? I made a mistake and I said something I couldn't verify. There I said it twice even...
Have you ever taken a look at all you've gotten wrong? Where you have said you were mistaken? ... more on that later...
As for education, you are staunch in your view to defend the indefensible. There are myriad factors that impact what's going on in education and not all of it the fault of the public education system itself. The problem for you is your wife is in education so you just want defend her. Admirable but also unnecessary in the discussions we've had. You just don't take the time to understand..
Go back and look at your post history and you'll see you've been on the wrong side of so many issues. Pretty much anything Covid you bought what you were sold and you attacked others for disagreeing and I haven't seen you ever admit that you were wrong about those things. Kind of like when someone said that natural immunity was better and you told them they were wrong for saying that and didn't have the facts. It goes on and on with you. Let's call it what it is. You want to believe in the powers that be and think that they know best. You want to trust systems and the government and you attack others who don't feel the same was as uninformed. I could quote post after post that you made about these things and ultimately, you were wrong time and time again. Perhaps it's time for you to look in the mirror yourself and realize that your trust is totally misplaced and that informed thing you said about yourself is really informed by others so you can keep trumpeting the company line. It's not really informed after all, is it?
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You guys tell me, when is it a baby?
www.earlylife.co.uk
Ultrasound Week By Week - What will I see at an Early Scan?
When going for an early pregnancy scan or a viability scan the Sonographers will want to see a few important landmarks. In the early weeks they would want to see an intrauterine pregnancy (in the womb), a yolk sac and a heartbeat amongst other checks. Take a look at some images that can give you...
www.earlylife.co.uk
I was absolutely not wrong about anything I said during Covid at the times that I said it. Natural immunity was more dangerous than vaccines.
Current Covid strains, current medical understanding is different, hence the changes in how we deal with it.
Also. As far as Education. My argument with you is you paint all Public Education with a broad brush. Because some schools perform poorly, means that Public Education should be eliminated which is just wrong. Many schools do a great job.
You sure you want to stand by this? Cause I'm happy to drop the links to your messages about this. You were wrong over and over and over again because you just went with what you were told.
This is a fundamentally inaccurate assessment of my views. Again...
1. It is a historically bad idea for a government to have responsibility for educating its own citizens. We see the results of that all around us. It's a virus inserted into a free society that ultimately kills the patient. Community based schools are find but the idea of having government officials over schools and government control/influence over what is taught is just bad.
2. Public education without choice isn't education at all. If even one person is forced into a failing school, it is fundamentally wrong. Are there good public schools? Sure. But there are also thousands of bad schools that we've failed repeatedly to address. When you have such a high failure rate, you have to examine the system writ large and recognize it requires massive reforms.
3. Government workers should not be allowed to unionize. This is a fundamentally corrupt relationship between unions, the government and corrosive in every way.
4. People who seek private education should receive the benefit of their tax dollars going toward the tuition for these schools. The idea that people should have to fund something they are not a part of is just absurd.
And I fundamentally disagree with most of what you have said here. You don't understand that you are again making Ng blanket statements based on your personal feelings.
Please. If you really want to take the time. Again, like all science, it changes as we get more information, that said, what I posted was accepted medical and scientific information when I posted it.
1. It is a historically bad idea for a government to have responsibility for educating its own citizens. We see the results of that all around us. It's a virus inserted into a free society that ultimately kills the patient. Community based schools are find but the idea of having government officials over schools and government control/influence over what is taught is just bad.
This is your opinion, not even close to fact. How exactly do you expect to have local schools without some sort of governance?
That's your problem. There were alternative/opposing views and consistently you went after those opinions. As we have seen, the flow of information related to covid was completely controlled by the powers that be. Being a lemming isn't an excuse for running down opposing views as somehow illegitimate because it doesn't follow the consensus. As I said before, the consensus was the world was flat and slavery was OK. We know those things were fundamentally wrong at every level.
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