Due to today's society not wanting to work

[yoshi121374]

One thing I haven't seen ITT, what does this shift to gig work or alternative income sources do to long-term career and income growth? $1K/week is fine in your 20s, but good luck raising a family of 4 in Mt. Pleasant on that.

If you never have a boss, and don't have a referenceable employer, what's next? Will you be able to prove your freelance value to the tune of material rate/wage increases that get you to where you want to be in life?

Obviously Esso Club isn't a dynamic resume maker, but it's at least an employer. And plenty of college kids take internships or other lower paying jobs to build the resume. And that resume builds in your early 20s as you begin to sort out your career. Does all of this change?

Will the "I don't want a boss and want to work my own hours" crew be able to make it into six figure - or multi six figure - income range with regularity? Along with retirement benefits, health insurance, etc...

I agree with those and that is absolutely the path I took. but I do think we may be seeing a shift amongst younger generations that they don't value the race to add possessions and specifically a house with the same aggression my generation (48yrs old) did. There is a lot of focus and interest in tiny homes,van life, etc .There seems to be a real shift to more life with less work balance. I know my focus has moved that direction.

 

[loveoysters]

Well if there is no God does that make heaven and hell nonexistent? So you wish him to burn eternally in a place you don’t “think” exist? Little bit of a oxymoron here from you the great critical thinker.
I suppose if hell is real like you insinuate than that puts you somewhere stuck between the moon and New York City.

Non Christians believe in hell when they cast someone who is not like them into it.

 

[scotchtiger]

I agree with those and that is absolutely the path I took. but I do think we may be seeing a shift amongst younger generations that they don't value the race to add possessions and specifically a house with the same aggression my generation (48yrs old) did. There is a lot of focus and interest in tiny homes,van life, etc .There seems to be a real shift to more life with less work balance. I know my focus has moved that direction.

I see that trend too, and I also have tried to intentionally shift my focus and time as well. But I'm at a stage in my career that affords that flexibility. And working super hard in my pre-kid years helped get me there.

Back to one of my previous points, what's the long term play here? Tiny homes and van life .... how are you going to raise children? How will you begin to build home equity so that by the time you have children, you can provide them with a nice place to live?

Home ownership in a nice area is going to be tough enough for this generation. This feels like unnecessary self-sabotage.

Some of this stuff sounds nice. Make your own schedule. Demand what you think you are worth. Don't put up with bosses. Hop around in a van. Screw the rat race.

But I'm afraid at some point Peter Pan is going to wake up from the dream and find out that your mid-late 30s aren't very cool when you still make $50K, live in a rental, have no savings and your kids begin thinking wtf dad?

 

[beatnuts]

I see that trend too, and I also have tried to intentionally shift my focus and time as well. But I'm at a stage in my career that affords that flexibility. And working super hard in my pre-kid years helped get me there.

Back to one of my previous points, what's the long term play here? Tiny homes and van life .... how are you going to raise children? How will you begin to build home equity so that by the time you have children, you can provide them with a nice place to live?

Home ownership in a nice area is going to be tough enough for this generation. This feels like unnecessary self-sabotage.

Some of this stuff sounds nice. Make your own schedule. Demand what you think you are worth. Don't put up with bosses. Hop around in a van. Screw the rat race.

But I'm afraid at some point Peter Pan is going to wake up from the dream and find out that your mid-late 30s aren't very cool when you still make $50K, live in a rental, have no savings and your kids begin thinking wtf dad?

At least someone gets it

 

[anon_5e8aassgcbjz1]

I see that trend too, and I also have tried to intentionally shift my focus and time as well. But I'm at a stage in my career that affords that flexibility. And working super hard in my pre-kid years helped get me there.

Back to one of my previous points, what's the long term play here? Tiny homes and van life .... how are you going to raise children? How will you begin to build home equity so that by the time you have children, you can provide them with a nice place to live?

Home ownership in a nice area is going to be tough enough for this generation. This feels like unnecessary self-sabotage.

Some of this stuff sounds nice. Make your own schedule. Demand what you think you are worth. Don't put up with bosses. Hop around in a van. Screw the rat race.

But I'm afraid at some point Peter Pan is going to wake up from the dream and find out that your mid-late 30s aren't very cool when you still make $50K, live in a rental, have no savings and your kids begin thinking wtf dad?

To offer one point, people aren't having kids like they used to.

 

[fatpiggy]

To offer one point, people aren't having kids like they used to.

This is going to be a problem for the United States. Less people = less tax revenue to pay back our massive $32 trillion and growing debt. It's very similar to a ponzi scheme in that respect.

 

[anon_5e8aassgcbjz1]

This is going to be a problem for the United States. Less people = less tax revenue to pay back our massive $32 trillion and growing debt. It's very similar to a ponzi scheme in that respect.

Immigration prevents the problem from being worse than it would otherwise be, but the problem is still there for sure.

 

[fatpiggy]

Immigration prevents the problem from being worse than it would otherwise be, but the problem is still there for sure.

How much do you think these illegal immigrants are contributing to the tax base?

I would argue its almost the exact opposite. These illegals come in and leech off of our social services, which are paid for by taxes.

 

[anon_5e8aassgcbjz1]

How much do you think these illegal immigrants are contributing to the tax base?

I would argue its almost the exact opposite. These illegals come in and leech off of our social services, which are paid for by taxes.

Immigrants, illegal and legal, pay taxes. I'd wager that on the whole, it's a net positive for the US. I could be wrong, and I'd love statistics.

My position is that immigration is economically good for the US, but we need to do a better job of handling the border. Drugs = no bueno. Human trafficking = no bueno. Potential threat of terrorist = no bueno

I’ll add that I don’t care for the tendency of the left to cater to illegal Hispanic migrants over more educated migrants from China, the former Soviet Union, the Middle East, and so on. It’s too difficult for those people to get green cards, and they are people we want. I’m not in favor of letting people die in the desert, but there has to be some measure of fairness in this situation

 

[fatpiggy]

nm

Immigrants, illegal and legal, pay taxes. I'd wager that on the whole, it's a net positive for the US. I could be wrong, and I'd love statistics.

My position is that immigration is economically good for the US, but we need to do a better job of handling the border. Drugs = no bueno. Human trafficking = no bueno. Potential threat of terrorist = no bueno

I’ll add that I don’t care for the tendency of the left to cater to illegal Hispanic migrants over more educated migrants from China, the former Soviet Union, the Middle East, and so on. It’s too difficult for those people to get green cards, and they are people we want. I’m not in favor of letting people die in the desert, but there has to be some measure of fairness in this situation

I agree with you on the legal immigration. We need talent in this country and LEGAL immigration is a net positive for the coutnry. Those coming in legally likely have more skills, enough to where they can contribute to society without having to resort to crime to survive. Those people also contribute to the tax base by paying their taxes.

Illegal immigrants are by and large not skilled laborers. They come here and 1) drive down the cost of labor for our American citizens. 2) They are taking jobs that are often paid in cash and are at such a low wage that they are not contributing to the tax base in any meaningful way at all. 3) They overwhelm our infrastructure that was not built anticipating a surge in population. We simply cannot handle it.

Legal immigration would help handle the topics that i think both sides can agree on which is exactly what you stated. The drugs, human trafficking, and potential terrorists. If we put a hard stop to illegal immigration then signifigantly less people will dies in the dessert because less people will attempt to get here in the first place.

We need an orderly immigration system and that starts with a strong border. I would argue our debate should be on how many immigrants we should be taking in, and what skills they must have to qualify as opposed to whether or not we should secure our border.

Trump was right, we need to build a wall. That is the first step in my opinion. Strong border and then immigration reform.

 

[anon_5e8aassgcbjz1]

nm



I agree with you on the legal immigration. We need talent in this country and LEGAL immigration is a net positive for the coutnry. Those coming in legally likely have more skills, enough to where they can contribute to society without having to resort to crime to survive. Those people also contribute to the tax base by paying their taxes.

Illegal immigrants are by and large not skilled laborers. They come here and 1) drive down the cost of labor for our American citizens. 2) They are taking jobs that are often paid in cash and are at such a low wage that they are not contributing to the tax base in any meaningful way at all. 3) They overwhelm our infrastructure that was not built anticipating a surge in population. We simply cannot handle it.

Legal immigration would help handle the topics that i think both sides can agree on which is exactly what you stated. The drugs, human trafficking, and potential terrorists. If we put a hard stop to illegal immigration then signifigantly less people will dies in the dessert because less people will attempt to get here in the first place.

We need an orderly immigration system and that starts with a strong border. I would argue our debate should be on how many immigrants we should be taking in and what skills they must have to qualify as opposed to whether or not we should secure our border.

Trump was right, we need to build a wall. That is the first step in my opinion. Strong border and then immigration reform.

The second paragraph would assume that domestic workers were clamoring to work in agriculture and construction. I don’t think that’s the case.

The wall itself was just political rhetoric. We have a desert and a river. Better idea would be to work with Mexico

 

[fatpiggy]

The second paragraph would assume that domestic workers were clamoring to work in agriculture and construction. I don’t think that’s the case.

The wall itself was just political rhetoric. We have a desert and a river. Better idea would be to work with Mexico

They aren't clamoring to work in agriculture and construction AT THE CURRENT WAGE, because the illegal labor is willing to do it for a lower wage.

If we want to increase the wage for Americans we need to decrease the supply of illegal labor.

Americans absolutely will do those jobs but they will require a higher wage. Essentially, by reducing illegal labor you are raising the minimum wage.

Working with Mexico would be a great idea if they would cooperate. If not we need to build a wall. The excuse for not building the wall was the cost, but that is no longer an excuse after we have sent another country more money to defend their border than it would cost us to defend our own (by multiples).

 

[lctiger831]

nm



I agree with you on the legal immigration. We need talent in this country and LEGAL immigration is a net positive for the coutnry. Those coming in legally likely have more skills, enough to where they can contribute to society without having to resort to crime to survive. Those people also contribute to the tax base by paying their taxes.

Illegal immigrants are by and large not skilled laborers. They come here and 1) drive down the cost of labor for our American citizens. 2) They are taking jobs that are often paid in cash and are at such a low wage that they are not contributing to the tax base in any meaningful way at all. 3) They overwhelm our infrastructure that was not built anticipating a surge in population. We simply cannot handle it.

Legal immigration would help handle the topics that i think both sides can agree on which is exactly what you stated. The drugs, human trafficking, and potential terrorists. If we put a hard stop to illegal immigration then signifigantly less people will dies in the dessert because less people will attempt to get here in the first place.

We need an orderly immigration system and that starts with a strong border. I would argue our debate should be on how many immigrants we should be taking in, and what skills they must have to qualify as opposed to whether or not we should secure our border.

Trump was right, we need to build a wall. That is the first step in my opinion. Strong border and then immigration reform.

Spoken like someone who has never had to deal with immigration proceedings. The US makes it extremely difficult for people to come in legally. Even when they come via Port of entry, they still have to jump through hoops. While doing this, they have to navigate through a god awful website like USCIS. I did the paperwork for my wife, mother in law and sister in law. I couldn’t imagine if someone didn’t have an English is their first language person doing their paperwork.
They don’t get food stamps, they don’t qualify for section 8 housing, they don’t get Medicare, Social Security or any other freebie Americans get. Hell, the people coming here(legally and illegally) have to jump through hoops just to get an ID card(especially here in this backward ass state).

 

[fatpiggy]

You are correct that i have never had to deal with the immigration system, but that is not really relevant to my argument. I am pro-immigration. We need talent from other countries, that is almost undeniable. No one that i know of is advocating for no immigration.

Part of immigration reform should be to straighten out the points that you made. It would be nice if the process to apply was made easier and more transparent.

Part of immigration reform has to be stopping ILLEGAL immigration. Illegal immigration is a slap in the face to legal immigrants. They are basically skipping the line and jumping in front of people who have gone through the correct process.

1) Stop illegal immigration
2) Reform immigration

Part of immigration reform is both parties coming together and deciding how many immigrants we should allow and the requirements to do so. That is all debatable. Allowing ILLEGAL immigration should be a non-starter for everyone.

 

[WapPride]

How much do you think these illegal immigrants are contributing to the tax base?

I would argue its almost the exact opposite. These illegals come in and leech off of our social services, which are paid for by taxes.

Luckily, known liberal rag - The Cato Institute - conducted a study on just this question and it turns out (shockingly) you're wrong.

https://www.cato.org/white-paper/fiscal-impact-immigration-united-states#:~:text=The%20Cato%20Model%20finds%20that,does%20not%20include%20their%20descendants.

 

[scotchtiger]

Luckily, known liberal rag - The Cato Institute - conducted a study on just this question and it turns out (shockingly) you're wrong.

https://www.cato.org/white-paper/fiscal-impact-immigration-united-states#:~:text=The%20Cato%20Model%20finds%20that,does%20not%20include%20their%20descendants.

That paragraph says immigrants, not illegal immigrants. Is there a difference in economic impact between legal immigrants who are registered tax payers vs illegal immigrants who are not?

 

[WapPride]

That paragraph says immigrants, not illegal immigrants. Is there a difference in economic impact between legal immigrants who are registered tax payers vs illegal immigrants who are not?

It's an entire study, and illegal immigrants are discussed towards the bottom

 

[scotchtiger]

It's an entire study, and illegal immigrants are discussed towards the bottom

The entire study is based on legal immigrants. But they do mention that illegals should also be positive since they are ineligible for government programs. Which of course makes sense. If you are here illegally and don’t pay taxes, the US taxpayers should spend precisely $0 on you.

 

[Spencer_York]

Esso should try paying a better wage and offering better benefits. Unemployment is super low, labor force participation in terms of row numbers and percentage are at all time highs. Small business owners love supply and demand when it benefits them but now that workers are able to sell their labor at a high rate, you see some really struggling. The businesses that offer competitive wages have no problems keeping their employees or in getting applications. It is that simple. As a business owner, you need to make sure your employees feel valued and are taken care of. Stop whining like a middle schooler. This isn't new either, going back 100+ years business owners in this country love to complain that no one wants to work

 

[WapPride]

The entire study is based on legal immigrants. But they do mention that illegals should also be positive since they are ineligible for government programs. Which of course makes sense. If you are here illegally and don’t pay taxes, the US taxpayers should spend precisely $0 on you.

The entire study is based on immigrants as a whole, specifically downstream from first generation (documented or undocumented.) They were unable to identify a sizable portion of undocumented immigrants due to incomplete CPS information, but they concluded that second generation and beyond are the same economic benefit as documented immigrant generations. Arguing about the effect first generation undocumented immigrants have on the economy is moot because they aren't eligible for any federal government assistance.

 

[Spencer_York]

My wife went back to bartending. She graduated with a microbiology degree. She made more bartending than working in a lab.

Now the hours suck and you have to deal with the shitty public, but it's good money. She's making almost as much as I do as a licensed engineer.

Big difference imo between being a bartender and a server. The people I know who bartended at Clemson really liked it. Yeah the hours sucked but you made a ton of money

 

[fatpiggy]

Luckily, known liberal rag - The Cato Institute - conducted a study on just this question and it turns out (shockingly) you're wrong.

https://www.cato.org/white-paper/fiscal-impact-immigration-united-states#:~:text=The%20Cato%20Model%20finds%20that,does%20not%20include%20their%20descendants.

Oh look, another study cited that is totally irrelevant

 

[WapPride]

Oh look, another study cited that is totally irrelevant

Try reading the study before acting snarky. You are entirely too stupid to pull that off.

 

[TigerGrowls]

Immigrants, illegal and legal, pay taxes. I'd wager that on the whole, it's a net positive for the US. I could be wrong, and I'd love statistics.

My position is that immigration is economically good for the US, but we need to do a better job of handling the border. Drugs = no bueno. Human trafficking = no bueno. Potential threat of terrorist = no bueno

I’ll add that I don’t care for the tendency of the left to cater to illegal Hispanic migrants over more educated migrants from China, the former Soviet Union, the Middle East, and so on. It’s too difficult for those people to get green cards, and they are people we want. I’m not in favor of letting people die in the desert, but there has to be some measure of fairness in this situation

I disagree with this. The US govt is spending hundreds of billions of dollars per year on the illegal immigrants and the little they pay in sales tax will not offset whats being spent or the strain on resources being introduced hurting legal citizens in the process.

 

[anon_5e8aassgcbjz1]

I disagree with this. The US govt is spending hundreds of billions of dollars per year on the illegal immigrants and the little they pay in sales tax will not offset whats being spent or the strain on resources being introduced hurting legal citizens in the process.

Will respond in depth later

 

[WapPride]

I disagree with this. The US govt is spending hundreds of billions of dollars per year on the illegal immigrants and the little they pay in sales tax will not offset whats being spent or the strain on resources being introduced hurting legal citizens in the process.

Do you have any data supporting the "hundreds of billions of dollars per year" being spent on illegal immigrants by the federal gov't?

 

[anon_5e8aassgcbjz1]

Do you have any data supporting the "hundreds of billions of dollars per year" being spent on illegal immigrants by the federal gov't?

No, he doesn't, and he also doesn't know (or care) that immigrants pay income tax.

 

[Union County Tiger]

I have had to deal with plenty of asshole bosses and low pay to get where I’m at. I also own a bagged ice business and can confirm the government was the biggest barrier to entry for me.

Unfortunately working for the man still pays me too much to leave at this time, but I’m still on track to be self employed by 35.

Can we work out a weekly salary for you to dump that avatar?

 

[Spencer_York]

I disagree with this. The US govt is spending hundreds of billions of dollars per year on the illegal immigrants and the little they pay in sales tax will not offset whats being spent or the strain on resources being introduced hurting legal citizens in the process.

This has been repeatedly debunked by study after study. Immigrants, legal and illegal, are net positives to economic growth. Multiple industries would collapse without them

 

[TigerGrowls]

This has been repeatedly debunked by study after study. Immigrants, legal and illegal, are net positives to economic growth. Multiple industries would collapse without them

Fake studies payed for by big business and globalists.

 

[anon_5e8aassgcbjz1]

Fake studies payed for by big business and globalists.

No true Scotsman - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Time after time after time with you

 

[tigerworx]

I agree and this has the potential to lead to a cataclysm. There will be too many people and not enough jobs.

You may or may not understand that what is coming....relatively soon...will surpass anyone's definition of cataclysm.

Another word, actually, comes to mind.

 

[tigerworx]

To offer one point, people aren't having kids like they used to.

Nor are what kids/babies that hit the ground being raised like they used to.

 

[lctiger831]

You are correct that i have never had to deal with the immigration system, but that is not really relevant to my argument. I am pro-immigration. We need talent from other countries, that is almost undeniable. No one that i know of is advocating for no immigration.

Part of immigration reform should be to straighten out the points that you made. It would be nice if the process to apply was made easier and more transparent.

Part of immigration reform has to be stopping ILLEGAL immigration. Illegal immigration is a slap in the face to legal immigrants. They are basically skipping the line and jumping in front of people who have gone through the correct process.

1) Stop illegal immigration
2) Reform immigration

Part of immigration reform is both parties coming together and deciding how many immigrants we should allow and the requirements to do so. That is all debatable. Allowing ILLEGAL immigration should be a non-starter for everyone.

I agree, there needs to be reform on a massive level. However, no president has done anything about it. There needs to be actual policies being made; not just deportation.
What makes a person an illegal immigrant? “Jumping the border”? Lapse in paperwork? Overstay a BS visa? Passport expired? All of these things I listed can make a person ‘illegal’.

 

[fatpiggy]

I agree, there needs to be reform on a massive level. However, no president has done anything about it. There needs to be actual policies being made; not just deportation.
What makes a person an illegal immigrant? “Jumping the border”? Lapse in paperwork? Overstay a BS visa? Passport expired? All of these things I listed can make a person ‘illegal’.

Simple, crossing the border illegally makes you an illegal immigrant. They must be deported and enter the country the correct way. Overstay your visa, yep you are illegal. This isn’t hard.