Hey Look The opressed King James just

[TheValley91]

Give me a link to a quick easy google search with some relevant numbers then. I don't mean some stupid article giving per capita statistics. I can find plenty of per capita statistics about black men being responsible for a much higher percentage of violent crime than white men per capita if that is the route you want to go. What we are were talking about though, is the likelihood of a black man being shot vs a white man. The per capita argument is stupid. I'll use an extreme example so it is easy to understand. If an Australian aboriginal person came to America and was killed by police then based on a per capita basis I can argue you are 100% likely to be killed by police if you are of Australian aboriginal decent. See how that works? It is crappy distorted math.

*face palm*

Listen man I've clearly stated my position. It is backed with plenty of data that one can easily find doing the research. Im not here to do the research for you. I'm sure you are plenty capable to do that yourself.

If you want to ignore the rest of my post, then that's clearly your choice. I wont continue the back and forth though.

 

[CUT93]

*face palm*

Listen man I've clearly stated my position. It is backed with plenty of data that one can easily find doing the research. Im not here to do the research for you. I'm sure you are plenty capable to do that yourself.

If you want to ignore the rest of my post, then that's clearly your choice. I wont continue the back and forth though.

I did edit my post to say that my view on this subject does not mean I don't think racism exists in America today. Of course it does. Anyone who says it doesn't is simply being dishonest.
However, I am not going to search for information that does not exist. I've read dozens of articles about the subject that present "facts" and have statistics in them, but they do not prove what they are trying to prove. If you have some numbers that do, feel free to let me know. This is always where the discussion ends because there is no information to prove your case.

Racism is a problem. We need to work on it, but we need to have honest fact based discussions. Not the discussions that are media driven hot topic narratives designed to drive people apart.
I feel extremely confident in saying that if there were a way to get everyone in small group discussions where they were actually sitting across the table from each other to discuss race relations, the vast majority of America would change almost overnight. Would it end racism? Absolutely not, because there are always going to be people who hate people who are different from them. You will just never get rid of that. BUT, there are misconceptions and things on both sides that people on the "other" side are not going to see or fully understand without sitting across the table from someone from the other side explaining it to them while you look into their eyes. Some things you can only fully understand if you live through them. Unfortunately, it is simply not possible for this to happen.

 

[TheValley91]

I did edit my post to say that my view on this subject does not mean I don't think racism exists in America today. Of course it does. Anyone who says it doesn't is simply being dishonest.
However, I am not going to search for information that does not exist. I've read dozens of articles about the subject that present "facts" and have statistics in them, but they do not prove what they are trying to prove. If you have some numbers that do, feel free to let me know. This is always where the discussion ends because there is no information to prove your case.

Racism is a problem. We need to work on it, but we need to have honest fact based discussions. Not the discussions that are media driven hot topic narratives designed to drive people apart.
I feel extremely confident in saying that if there were a way to get everyone in small group discussions where they were actually sitting across the table from each other to discuss race relations, the vast majority of America would change almost overnight. Would it end racism? Absolutely not, because there are always going to be people who hate people who are different from them. You will just never get rid of that. BUT, there are misconceptions and things on both sides that people on the "other" side are not going to see or fully understand without sitting across the table from someone from the other side explaining it to them while you look into their eyes. Some things you can only fully understand if you live through them. Unfortunately, it is simply not possible for this to happen.

What specific facts do you need to see? Seriously. What specifically do you not believe?

And honestly cut the bullshit on the misconceptions on both sides. You have one group of people that have been dismissed, oppressed, beaten, lynched, spat on, yelled at, arrested, and pushed away for the majority of their existence in this country solely based on the color of their skin. That pain, that hurt, that mistrust isn't going away with some sit down conversations.

Its easier to say something like that when your family history and culture as a people doesn't have the dark past that it does. As a white man, I dont know that feeling. But I can try to put myself in others position and understand how fvcked up it all really is.

 

[CUT93]

Specifically, it is not true that a black man is more likely to be killed by police than a white man, or that black men are killed by police more often than white men, or however you want to frame it.

Lastly get the heck out of here with your self righteous crap. On one hand you are going to tell me that I can't understand something because of my family history(being white) while at the same time professing "That pain, that hurt, that mistrust isn't going away with some sit down conversations" like you somehow can know that even though you have not lived. Really? I can't know how someone feels because I am not the same race and have not lived their life, but you have some special gift(apparently the only white person in the world with this gift) that allows you to do that? What a freaking hypocrite.

 

[FranktheDank]

And yet white people constantly try to make it one.

For the record it was you who wanted to make it a contest ITT. Staying on topic this was about Lebron and his comments. Some people are going to be a little irritated when someone like Lebron uses his platform to spread fear and division, rather than peace, unity, or anything productive about the topic. I guess it’s those people’s inner whiteness that makes them not appreciate Lebrons comments.

The dude is over halfway to being a billionaire. People kiss hiss feet and wipe his ass daily. He lives a life that 99.99999 of all people that have ever been born can only dream of. And when he makes statements like, “I’m terrified of being a black man in America” and “black men are literally hunted every time we leave the house”, that’s a problem.

Why? Because he is either lying or he needs to see a psychiatrist because those statements are not even close to reasonable. It’s about as reasonable as me saying that as a white American i fear for my life every time i leave my house because bears are literally mauling my people down everyday. It happens, but not nearly enough for any reasonable person to have that mindset.

He’s free to feel however he wants but if you have the platform he has people are going to hold you accountable when you elect to use it in an irresponsible manor. Tell me, how is it a good idea to tell the impressionable black youths of America that idolize him, that they should be terrified of (white) cops when they leave their house? How is that healthy?

 

[TheValley91]

For the record it was you who wanted to make it a contest ITT. Staying on topic this was about Lebron and his comments. Some people are going to be a little irritated when someone like Lebron uses his platform to spread fear and division, rather than peace, unity, or anything productive about the topic. I guess it’s those people’s inner whiteness that makes them not appreciate Lebrons comments.

The dude is over halfway to being a billionaire. People kiss hiss feet and wipe his ass daily. He lives a life that 99.99999 of all people that have ever been born can only dream of. And when he makes statements like, “I’m terrified of being a black man in America” and “black men are literally hunted every time we leave the house”, that’s a problem.

Why? Because he is either lying or he needs to see a psychiatrist because those statements are not even close to reasonable. It’s about as reasonable as me saying that as a white American i fear for my life every time i leave my house because bears are literally mauling my people down everyday. It happens, but not nearly enough for any reasonable person to have that mindset.

He’s free to feel however he wants but if you have the platform he has people are going to hold you accountable when you elect to use it in an irresponsible manor. Tell me, how is it a good idea to tell the impressionable black youths of America that idolize him, that they should be terrified of (white) cops when they leave their house? How is that healthy?

He's also grown up in the streets of Akron as well so while he doesn't face the same struggles as others, he has been there first hand. He might not present the topic how I would have but damn man people haven't been listening to black people for years anyways. People like yourself will just look at his money and think shut up and play.

You don't actually care about the struggles in the black community. You don't actually care if someone like Lebron phrases their points correctly about issues in the black community. You rather them say nothing and see your sports because in your eyes it's just people complaining and nothing more.

And from a historical perspective those black kids should be somewhat fearful of cops. Might make you uncomfortable but thats reality.

 

[FranktheDank]

What specific facts do you need to see? Seriously. What specifically do you not believe?

And honestly cut the bullshit on the misconceptions on both sides. You have one group of people that have been dismissed, oppressed, beaten, lynched, spat on, yelled at, arrested, and pushed away for the majority of their existence in this country solely based on the color of their skin. That pain, that hurt, that mistrust isn't going away with some sit down conversations.

Its easier to say something like that when your family history and culture as a people doesn't have the dark past that it does. As a white man, I dont know that feeling. But I can try to put myself in others position and understand how fvcked up it all really is.

You just said it yourself, as a white man you don’t know that feeling. And you know something else, you don’t know how every black person in America feels, only the ones who are outspoken about being victims. Maybe not all black people feel the same, you ever think of that? I know for a fact they don’t because I have multiple friends that have told me so.

How about stop projecting your thoughts and feelings onto an entire race of people.

 

[TheValley91]

Specifically, it is not true that a black man is more likely to be killed by police than a white man, or that black men are killed by police more often than white men, or however you want to frame it.

Lastly get the heck out of here with your self righteous crap. On one hand you are going to tell me that I can't understand something because of my family history(being white) while at the same time professing "That pain, that hurt, that mistrust isn't going away with some sit down conversations" like you somehow can know that even though you have not lived. Really? I can't know how someone feels because I am not the same race and have not lived their life, but you have some special gift(apparently the only white person in the world with this gift) that allows you to do that? What a freaking hypocrite.

Nothing about being a hypocrite when I know that I can't fully understand the struggle of black people of America. I can somewhat imagine and listen but I can't fully understand.

You act like white people need to be heard and understood too. Understood about what?

Also heres a site with information about police violence.

Mapping Police Violence

Law enforcement agencies across the country are failing to provide us with even basic information about the lives they take. So we collect the data ourselves.

mappingpoliceviolence.org

 

[FranktheDank]

He's also grown up in the streets of Akron as well so while he doesn't face the same struggles as others, he has been there first hand. He might not present the topic how I would have but damn man people haven't been listening to black people for years anyways. People like yourself will just look at his money and think shut up and play.

You don't actually care about the struggles in the black community. You don't actually care if someone like Lebron phrases their points correctly about issues in the black community. You rather them say nothing and see your sports because in your eyes it's just people complaining and nothing more.

And from a historical perspective those black kids should be somewhat fearful of cops. Might make you uncomfortable but thats reality.

All I’ve said is that myself and others are critical of the way Lebron uses his platform to address the topic of police shootings. I wish he would go about it in a more constructive way. Now you’re telling me that I don’t care about the black community? What gives you the right to make that accusation?

 

[TheValley91]

You just said it yourself, as a white man you don’t know that feeling. And you know something else, you don’t know how every black person in America feels, only the ones who are outspoken about being victims. Maybe not all black people feel the same, you ever think of that? I know for a fact they don’t because I have multiple friends that have told me so.

How about stop projecting your thoughts and feelings onto an entire race of people.

Glad you have a couple black friends. Ask them if they feel they are/have been treated differently, or have to act differently (code switch), or feel they have to work even harder to get where they are in life.

"I’ll never understand what kind of sick pleasure people these days get out of making themselves out to be victims."

Comment like that tells me you don't care. You think people are just wanting to be victims rather than face the reality that maybe just maybe they actually have a point about race in America.

 

[FranktheDank]

Glad you have a couple black friends. Ask them if they feel they are/have been treated differently, or have to act differently (code switch), or feel they have to work even harder to get where they are in life.

"I’ll never understand what kind of sick pleasure people these days get out of making themselves out to be victims."

Comment like that tells me you don't care. You think people are just wanting to be victims rather than face the reality that maybe just maybe they actually have a point about race in America.

Once again you are projecting your beliefs into an entire race of people. You are assuming that because someone is black they get treated differently, have to act differently, or have to work harder. Stop it. You have no right to speak for an entire race of people, especially one you don’t belong to, and not even your own.

I do think people these days have a propensity to make themselves out to be victims. Actually i don’t think, i know. There have been plenty of examples in the media. I’m talking about all types of people. As an observation it’s mostly younger folks.

And when people like Lebron who have this incredible platform choose to sensationalize the victim role because it’s en Vogue rather than saying/doing something constructive, there is going to be backlash. And then there’s people like you who think they know everything and say that I don’t care about the black community because I condemn some of Lebrons untruthful comments.

 

[jakefest]

I see you don't really understand percentages and how they work. Carry on.

If you're comparing per capita, you have to also factor in the amount of "run ins" with police by race, by locale and by year if you really want to get the math right. You should probably also factor in prior criminal record as I imagine repeat offenders also trend higher in the likely to end badly scenario if (and a big if) that information is known by police before arrival. Post that, each police officer involved in the shooting/killing should be compared for longevity, training, prior issues....etc etc.

In summary, you have to quantify exposure to the potential of being harmed, which from the research I've seen, favors blacks statistically as they are at a much higher percentage of probable engagement with a police officer(s).

If you really wanted to explore if systemic racism exists in policing then you have to start asking questions at grass roots which starts with policy and training. Once you know if local precincts have something like a "stop and frisk" policy for example, the next question that comes naturally is does it target minorities (notice I say minorities plural here as it appears that blacks are the only ones treated unfairly, no one mentions Latinos, Indians, Asians, etc). That would give you the foundation for whether or not people of color are targeted more often than non-minorities by low level default, which would indicate at the policy level that something "systemic" exists.

Once you canvas policies and training, the fun starts with real statistical facts going city by city, town by town and neighborhood by neighborhood. This is where poverty likely starts to factor in hugely. If we were to compare the 9 blacks shot with the 19 whites shot, I am going to guess that the trending common denominator between them is poverty or lower income levels. The second might be prior offenses, the third might be mental health history, the fourth maybe legacy/parents/home life, the 5th might be high school educated....etc etc. These are much deeper issues and require much deeper research.

Every government ran agency or public service could be improved with some level of reform, that doesn't mean it's a racism issue though, it just means it needs improvement.

 

[FranktheDank]

If you're comparing per capita, you have to also factor in the amount of "run ins" with police by race, by locale and by year if you really want to get the math right. You should probably also factor in prior criminal record as I imagine repeat offenders also trend higher in the likely to end badly scenario if (and a big if) that information is known by police before arrival. Post that, each police officer involved in the shooting/killing should be compared for longevity, training, prior issues....etc etc.

In summary, you have to quantify exposure to the potential of being harmed, which from the research I've seen, favors blacks statistically as they are at a much higher percentage of probable engagement with a police officer(s).

If you really wanted to explore if systemic racism exists in policing then you have to start asking questions at grass roots which starts with policy and training. Once you know if local precincts have something like a "stop and frisk" policy for example, the next question that comes naturally is does it target minorities (notice I say minorities plural here as it appears that blacks are the only ones treated unfairly, no one mentions Latinos, Indians, Asians, etc). That would give you the foundation for whether or not people of color are targeted more often than non-minorities by low level default, which would indicate at the policy level that something "systemic" exists.

Once you canvas policies and training, the fun starts with real statistical facts going city by city, town by town and neighborhood by neighborhood. This is where poverty likely starts to factor in hugely. If we were to compare the 9 blacks shot with the 19 whites shot, I am going to guess that the trending common denominator between them is poverty or lower income levels. The second might be prior offenses, the third might be mental health history, the fourth maybe legacy/parents/home life, the 5th might be high school educated....etc etc. These are much deeper issues and require much deeper research.

Every government ran agency or public service could be improved with some level of reform, that doesn't mean it's a racism issue though, it just means it needs improvement.

Great post although it won’t matter to the poster you were replying too. He’s a self righteous woke so logic and reason don’t matter. The only thing that does matter to that type is pushing a narrative and bringing up America’s transgressions of the past in every possible opportunity. Despite the fact that police aren’t perfect and mistreat people of all skin color, it will always be more egregious and more of an injustice when it happens to a black person.

 

[TheValley91]

Once again you are projecting your beliefs into an entire race of people. You are assuming that because someone is black they get treated differently, have to act differently, or have to work harder. Stop it. You have no right to speak for an entire race of people, especially one you don’t belong to, and not even your own.

I do think people these days have a propensity to make themselves out to be victims. Actually i don’t think, i know. There have been plenty of examples in the media. I’m talking about all types of people. As an observation it’s mostly younger folks.

And when people like Lebron who have this incredible platform choose to sensationalize the victim role because it’s en Vogue rather than saying/doing something constructive, there is going to be backlash. And then there’s people like you who think they know everything and say that I don’t care about the black community because I condemn some of Lebrons untruthful comments.

I can absolutely speak to my own race for their ignorance on the matter. It isn't only black people's job to convince ignorant white people.

I won't be quiet and have someone like yourself just paint a group of people acting as "victims". Lebron is also extremely active in many communities with his time and money, changing people's lives. You get all fussy while he actually is out helping the people he is speaking up for.

To the other poster above, you absolutely make valid points which point to what I've talked about before. The issues we see today can easily be traced back to decades of horrible racist policys that have had an impact on communities of color for years and years.

Policing is just a piece of that.

 

[fcctiger12]

What a joke reply! "it still happens". People get struck by lightning and die, people get killed by cows, vending machines, or any other number of various and unlikely events that happen. What matters is how often things happen. I would call bs on Lebron or anyone else if they were out there lobbying for all Americans to be provided with suits that protect them from lightning strikes, because it is stupid even though "this still happens in america dude".

How many instances do you know of where a random racist white person murdered a black person this year? I don't mean examples where people were being robbed or some guy starts a fight at a bar and some one gets killed. I mean where a racists white person targets a black person simply because they are black and kills them? Tell me how many of your friends have been killed like this, give me a number.

Here ya go. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ahmaud-arbery-shooting-timeline-case-n1204306

 

[FranktheDank]

I can absolutely speak to my own race for their ignorance on the matter. It isn't only black people's job to convince ignorant white people.

I won't be quiet and have someone like yourself just paint a group of people acting as "victims". Lebron is also extremely active in many communities with his time and money, changing people's lives. You get all fussy while he actually is out helping the people he is speaking up for.

To the other poster above, you absolutely make valid points which point to what I've talked about before. The issues we see today can easily be traced back to decades of horrible racist policys that have had an impact on communities of color for years and years.

Policing is just a piece of that.

When and where did I paint an entire group of people as victims? In fact I did the opposite. I’ve said over and over, some people are victims some aren’t. I’m calling out the people that choose to act like victims when they really aren’t ie Lebron, one of the most privileged human beings to ever live.

Not saying he’s a bad person and good for him for being active in communities. But I will be critical of some of the messages he has put out. As I said before when you over exaggerate and over embellish something there’s a point where it becomes a lie. And I don’t appreciate it when people of any kind use the their platform that way.