How has your company's stock done since Trump was elected?

[appalachiatiger]

wonder what the national wage would be if every job in america has the same pay scale or similar.

we would really be a strong tight knit country if we could reduce the drastic difference in wages.

if we figure out how to create policies that lower middle class and below do not need govt help, we can stamp out liberals all together.

 

[toolucky52384]

I blame Obama for ruining the economy.

i blame the people who bought houses they couldn't afford in 2001-2007, and the banks who turned the mortgages into financial products even after they knew the mortgages were bad, and the ratings agencies that knew the mortgages were crap but kept putting AAA on them because they were for profit businesses with competitors and the banks only needed a single rating agency.

 

[toolucky52384]

wonder what the national wage would be if every job in america has the same pay scale or similar.

we would really be a strong tight knit country if we could reduce the drastic difference in wages.

if we figure out how to create policies that lower middle class and below do not need govt help, we can stamp out liberals all together.

so your plan to stamp out liberals is communism?

 

[petegroove]

wonder what the national wage would be if every job in america has the same pay scale or similar.

we would really be a strong tight knit country if we could reduce the drastic difference in wages.

if we figure out how to create policies that lower middle class and below do not need govt help, we can stamp out liberals all together.

Your political and economic posts are wonderfully schizophrenic.

 

[appalachiatiger]

@toolucky52384

99% of your post are spot on IMO

but this one i dont agree with.

that the ones on the purchasing side of the contract were at more fault than the professionals on the the other side of the contract.

one side barely understood their finances and how close any ripple in their financial lives would destroy them meeting the obligations of those contracts.

the professionals on the other side set the environment up for that to exist.

1-creating investment packages came from the professional side.

2-marketing easy money came from the professional side.

3-advertising the ease of home ownership came from the professional side.

4-approving the loan applications came from the professional side.

id put 95% of the blame on the professional side of each failed contract.

and id also that many on that professional side got away with theft.

 

[appalachiatiger]

Your political and economic posts are wonderfully schizophrenic.

confusion with statements made to create debate.

but i see your parallellism

 

[toolucky52384]

@toolucky52384

99% of your post are spot on IMO

but this one i dont agree with.

that the ones on the purchasing side of the contract were at more fault than the professionals on the the other side of the contract.

one side barely understood their finances and how close any ripple in their financial lives would destroy them meeting the obligations of those contracts.

the professionals on the other side set the environment up for that to exist.

1-creating investment packages came from the professional side.

2-marketing easy money came from the professional side.

3-advertising the ease of home ownership came from the professional side.

4-approving the loan applications came from the professional side.

id put 95% of the blame on the professional side of each failed contract.

and id also that many on that professional side got away with theft.

i blamed both the financial professionals and the folks buying the houses in my previous post... the people i blame least of all really are the small loan officers... the big banks wanted to buy the loans they issued, the loan officeres were middle men and they weren't exactly fiannical professionals... theses guys were sales rejects that found themselves going from 40k jobs to 100-200k jobs accidently overnight and didn't understand the extent of what they were doing.

the big banks wanting to buy the morgages off the loan officers cretated the demand that caused 2,3,4.

 

[appalachiatiger]

so your plan to stamp out liberals is communism?

o hell freaking no lol

 

[appalachiatiger]

so your plan to stamp out liberals is communism?

capitalism is by far king, but evolution is constant.

find the value of any specific product thru a supply deman curve window seems to give the truest form of actual value than any other means of metric.

im just saying with need to tinker with restraining the edges as the markets move.

 

[toolucky52384]

capitalism is by far king, but evolution is constant.

find the value of any specific product thru a supply deman curve window seems to give the truest form of actual value than any other means of metric.

im just saying with need to tinker with restraining the edges as the markets move.

i agree that capitalism has a nasty tendency of disguising worthlessness as value and then profiting off of worthlessness... one of the great problems of capitalism is that you have essentially two types of capitalists:

The Henry Reardens- Those who create a product of unparralleled value and become rich because their product justifies its cost.
The CDO Managers - Those who disguise something they know to be worthless as valuable, sell it, and justify their actions as a responsibility to their shareholders, the machine.

I think every company and every product is some combination of the two above, if you are far on the Rearden side of the spectrum (the Steve Jobs, Larry Page, Jeff Bezos) you are the lifeblood of our economy, if you are far on the CDO Manager side you are the scum that prevents a better world, you create no value and skim off the labors of others.

 

[appalachiatiger]

so who hired the loan officers?

who was responsible for creating the job descriptions for these loan officers?

who was responsible for setting up the job procedures for these officers?

who was responisble for oversight of these officers?

who was responsible for training these officers?

how and was their pay structure set up to not account for potential failure of contracts?

i am assuming said pay was directly linked to number of said contracts approved?

 

[toolucky52384]

so who hired the loan officers?

who was responsible for creating the job descriptions for these loan officers?

who was responsible for setting up the job procedures for these officers?

who was responisble for oversight of these officers?

who was responsible for training these officers?

how and was their pay structure set up to not account for potential failure of contracts?

i am assuming said pay was directly linked to number of said contracts approved?

many of the loan officers worked for small businesses setup all over the country... the businesses made money because the big banks would buy the loans within 24 hours of closing and turn them info financial instruments... the small companies that hired the loan officers had about 24 hours risk on any loan originated, they had no business incentive not have the loan officers churn out more loans... the big banks wanted as much crap as the loan officers could provide, so while the small financial institutions were originating the loans, the demand for the sh*tyness of the loans tied right back to the big banks... yes did some dip sh*t small buinsess owner hire the loan officers and process the loans and make a profit, yes, but these guys knew the absolute least about what was happening out of anyone... the loans would never have been made if the big banks hadn't created an un-discerning demand for junk mortgage debt instruments.

 

[appalachiatiger]

many of the loan officers worked for small businesses setup all over the country... the businesses made money because the big banks would buy the loans within 24 hours of closing and turn them info financial instruments... the small companies that hired the loan officers had about 24 hours risk on any loan originated, they had no business incentive not have the loan officers churn out more loans... the big banks wanted as much crap as the loan officers could provide, so while the small financial institutions were originating the loans, the demand for the sh*tyness of the loans tied right back to the big banks... yes did some dip sh*t small buinsess owner hire the loan officers and process the loans and make a profit, yes, but these guys knew the absolute least about what was happening out of anyone... the loans would never have been made if the big banks hadn't created an un-discerning demand for junk mortgage debt instruments.

be cool if you could do a mathematical equation of what you just said.

bet youd have to do alot on the purchaser side to balance the equation

 

[clemben]

i blame the people who bought houses they couldn't afford in 2001-2007, and the banks who turned the mortgages into financial products even after they knew the mortgages were bad, and the ratings agencies that knew the mortgages were crap but kept putting AAA on them because they were for profit businesses with competitors and the banks only needed a single rating agency.

Well them too...them and Obama...

 

[toolucky52384]

be cool if you could do a mathematical equation of what you just said.
bet youd have to do alot on the purchaser side to balance the equation

i've got no idea what types of margins they were actually working with... but lets say it is 0.25%

If I can loan $500,000 on Wednesday and sell the mortgage to a bank by Friday for $501,250, then I am making an annualized 45% annual return on my capital. So lets look at this from the perspective of a small financial institution owner... lets say a shop that works with 1.5 M in capital.... doing this on repeat and stretching my capital a bit by demonstrating revenue, this can easily generate 450K per year in profit based on 360 loans... but the kicker is that you are only ever risking 1.5 M in any given week and the risk you face is that the housing market collapses in the next 24 hours before you offload your loan. This went on for years, and at the end they were leveraging their capitial more and more.

It's pretty clear why loan officers weren't rejecting mortgages, they were paid per mortgage originated and the only risk they or their employer held was that the financial system would crash within 24 hours.

The big banks on the other hand saw that the % of subprime loans was going up, saw that the percentage of mortgages with income verification was going down, saw that debt to income ratios were rising, and responded by increasing complexity to the bonds the originated to mask the decreasing quality.

So if the big banks had imposed any level of standard for the loans, lets say they put them on a 1 week screening and set a standard for % mortgages that were subprime they were willing to buy, or % of loans that can have no income verification, then it would have substantially changed the behavior of the loan shops, not only would the time have diluted the annualized return and added risk, but the standards would have been adopted by the loan shops. the business model created the perfect storm.

It is the equivalent of the following, friend says he needs 20 bucks and he will give you 25 next week... another friend whispers in your ear that they will give you 22 right now to transfer the debt... except there were millions of the first friend lined up, and the second friend said he'd repeat the deal as many times as you wanted... the only thing standing between you and 2 million dollars was how fast you could execute the deals, if you could do one a minute for 10 hours a day, 5 days a week, you could make 2 million dollars in 6 years... to make 5 million dollars however would have required 19,230 years.

 

[blythewood tigers]

i agree that capitalism has a nasty tendency of disguising worthlessness as value and then profiting off of worthlessness... one of the great problems of capitalism is that you have essentially two types of capitalists:

The Henry Reardens- Those who create a product of unparralleled value and become rich because their product justifies its cost.
The CDO Managers - Those who disguise something they know to be worthless as valuable, sell it, and justify their actions as a responsibility to their shareholders, the machine.

I think every company and every product is some combination of the two above, if you are far on the Rearden side of the spectrum (the Steve Jobs, Larry Page, Jeff Bezos) you are the lifeblood of our economy, if you are far on the CDO Manager side you are the scum that prevents a better world, you create no value and skim off the labors of others.

The modern era of capitalism is anything but capitalism, there are NO "nasty tendency" or "great problems" if applied in its true form. The idea of capitalism today is so perverted, so manipulated and corrupt, the true version has now become the antidote to our modern financial system, but of course the opposite seems to be discussed, i.e. more of the same socialist policies.

Every financial post in this website never discusses the root of our problem, only all the symptoms. No debt based system can ever nor will ever work in a capitalist society, fact. To think or imagine that we live in a capitalist society today is pure fantasy at best, and to also believe that a business created by the individuals that you listed above as the "lifeblood" of our economy makes someone like me scratch my head while asking the question, why? Especially Steve Jobs.

 

[toolucky52384]

and to also believe that a business created by the individuals that you listed above as the "lifeblood" of our economy makes someone like me scratch my head while asking the question, why? Especially Steve Jobs.

they all created products that changed the world.

blythwood, are you opposed to all fiat money?

are you more disturbed by monetary policy or by fiscal policy?

 

[blythewood tigers]

they all created products that changed the world.

blythwood, are you opposed to all fiat money?

are you more disturbed by monetary policy or by fiscal policy?

I am opposed to any government that declares what money is by decree because this automatically commits the worst form of subjugation on people in terms of personal freedom. This IS monetary policy, fiscal policy becomes meaningless at this point even though it seems to garner the most attention from politicians albeit on purpose.

Monetary policy is THE reason for literally every problem this country faces, no matter who the president is, what law is passed or not passed, every thing else becomes a side show when civilized societies do not use money as a means of exchange for human energy.