How many times have you been falsely accused of being a racist?

[Brucepg2000]

I don't think I ever have. I probably will be soon once I get out of Covid 19 lock down. The first time someone tells my that Black Lives Matter, I will say All Lives Matter, then I will be deemed a racist.

I believe that 50 to 60 years of race relations have been erased. I imagine more racists are now being produced by the day. What was the famous Nazi propaganda quote: "Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth."

In SC you probably will. It is very true, if you repeat a lie enough it becomes the truth.
Most times people are just being insensitive pricks, not really racist.
For example, I was driving through Albuquerque NM the other day to visit my Uncle. We decided to go to the store to purchase a pack of smokes. I left my wallet at the hotel so he says don't worry about it. I got you. I noticed that next to the counter at the ATM there were two young women withdrawing cash and giving that$300 to an old lady who they obviously were not related to, then walking her back to the pharmacy counter.
The young lady at the main counter goes on to tell us that she could not sell us those cigarettes because I didn't have an ID. I'm in my 40's and I don't look like an 18 year old but okay. So we ask is there any recourse? She called the Manager and that lady said that she would make an exception in our case.
AFTER we received the cigarettes I explained to her that no more than 5 feet behind me that there was an opioid drug deal going down portrayed by those three ladies she looks at me very odd. She says that I was being very accusatory of other people when I was the one trying to get away with something here. I told her to have a nice day and walked out. I should have called the cops but those guys are busy with real crime. Was there enough to be upset about? Was anyone being racist at all? Was I being accusatory?

 

[Brucepg2000]

I don't think saying what racists say makes you a racist. Well maybe some things. Black lives matter is just a response to a group of people who were acting or behaving like black lives didn't matter. It was a declaration to those people. Not a declaration to you so your response of all lives matter isn't necessary unless you're one of the ones that they were talking too. Look at it from their point of view. They felt like when a black life was taken there wasn't the same concern so they are just saying hey man black lives matter too. We want some Justice too. Had nothing to do with other lives not mattering.

Thank you. Why is this concept that hard to follow? It's not....

 

[johnhugh]

Man we got some terrible people on this board

 

[gardentiger]

Everyone leverages what they can.

 

[JAMCRACKER99]

Some of you live in a completely different world than me. I understand your experiences have to count for something. That is completely logical. But you don't think that is a gross generalization even based on your experiences? If I did that I'd have a problem with a bunch of innocent white people.

I'm speaking to your skepticism of others stories. Like I said I understand your experiences have to have some influence on how you believe or think but I can't believe you or other people don't manage that better. I just don't get it. When those individuals that do things like playing the race card they are stupid. Just those people are stupid. Has zero to do with the next person. I purposely manage my emotions so that I won't let my "experiences" impact the innocent next person. And it's actually not that hard. You just have to be intentional. Or I'd imagine you wouldn't be very nice or an emotional wreck. And if you were nice it wouldn't be actually who you really are you'd be just masking how you actually feel. I'm speaking in general. You haven't given me the info to go that far. I'm speaking if I let my experiences have that influence.

You're correct when you say just those people or individuals are stupid for playing the race card when it is not the case in that moment in time. I was in discount and off price retail management for 24 years so I have a lot of experience with a large variety of races and with people from different countries. I was called a racist twice in 24 years one time because I supported an associate who was working in the dressing room and had tried to follow strict company procedure by counting the number of garments coming in and going out of the fitting room of a black female. The woman asked to speak to a manager to complain so I told her that the associate was following company policy so she screamed at the top of her lungs that I was being racist and only saying that because she was black. I felt like everyone in the store was staring at me. One of the most embarassing moments of my life especially since it wasn't true.

The other time was when I was in my office and after speaking with my associate over the phone regarding a refund, I refused the refund per company guidelines at that time. The black female customer wanted to talk to me so I came up front to speak with her and she accused me of refusing the refund because she was black to which I replied that I had not even seen her so how would I know she was black? Also the associate who spoke to me on the phone did so right in front of tne customer so I asked her if the associate had mentioned her race when speaking with me and she said no.

So these were two individuals who played the race card with me in 24 years. Can you imagine all the intereactions I had over 24 years with people of all races (customers and employees) who I upset because they didn't get what they wanted who just accepted my decision and never accused my decision as being based on the color of their skin? Point being those were two individuals who dont represent an entire race.

I was never accused of being racist when I fired any employees either. I told everyone when they were hired or during meeting that I would never fire them, but they could fire themselves based upon their actions whether it be from poor work performance, poor work attendance, violation of company policies, etc.

One other incident that I witnessed was when my boss, for whom I worked 5.5 years for and was black, was called the N word (screamed actually at the front of the store) by a white customer. I was so pissed off and felt so bad for my boss. I could tell it upset and embarassed him, but he handled it with grace and in a professional manner. That made me sick to witness that, and I'm sure it wasn't the first time a black man who grew up in a small town in TX had ever been called that. No reason in the world for that. Best man I ever worked for. He would have made a great coach because he could let you know when he was not pleased with your work but when he was pleased he made you feel like a million bucks. And he supported the people who worked for him. Reminds me a lot of Dabo in many ways.

 

[Charybdis]

Used to coach basketball. When I first got to the school, our better players were white, as our best black athletes focused on football, and we didn't have a tremendous tradition in basketball to that point. My black players back then were the kids who couldn't hack it in football and viewed basketball as easier, whereas my white players at the time had been playing organized ball essentially since they were in diapers. As such, most of my starters were white, and they got more playing time. I was accused multiple times of being racist against my black players.

Flash forward three or four years. Our program had gotten better, our school demographics were slowly shifting, and our better black athletes decided that it was worth it to play basketball now. All five starters were black. Now I am racist against white kids.

 

[TigerLion06]

You're correct when you say just those people or individuals are stupid for playing the race card when it is not the case in that moment in time. I was in discount and off price retail management for 24 years so I have a lot of experience with a large variety of races and with people from different countries. I was called a racist twice in 24 years one time because I supported an associate who was working in the dressing room and had tried to follow strict company procedure by counting the number of garments coming in and going out of the fitting room of a black female. The woman asked to speak to a manager to complain so I told her that the associate was following company policy so she screamed at the top of her lungs that I was being racist and only saying that because she was black. I felt like everyone in the store was staring at me. One of the most embarassing moments of my life especially since it wasn't true.

The other time was when I was in my office and after speaking with my associate over the phone regarding a refund, I refused the refund per company guidelines at that time. The black female customer wanted to talk to me so I came up front to speak with her and she accused me of refusing the refund because she was black to which I replied that I had not even seen her so how would I know she was black? Also the associate who spoke to me on the phone did so right in front of tne customer so I asked her if the associate had mentioned her race when speaking with me and she said no.

So these were two individuals who played the race card with me in 24 years. Can you imagine all the intereactions I had over 24 years with people of all races (customers and employees) who I upset because they didn't get what they wanted who just accepted my decision and never accused my decision as being based on the color of their skin? Point being those were two individuals who dont represent an entire race.

I was never accused of being racist when I fired any employees either. I told everyone when they were hired or during meeting that I would never fire them, but they could fire themselves based upon their actions whether it be from poor work performance, poor work attendance, violation of company policies, etc.

One other incident that I witnessed was when my boss, for whom I worked 5.5 years for and was black, was called the N word (screamed actually at the front of the store) by a white customer. I was so pissed off and felt so bad for my boss. I could tell it upset and embarassed him, but he handled it with grace and in a professional manner. That made me sick to witness that, and I'm sure it wasn't the first time a black man who grew up in a small town in TX had ever been called that. No reason in the world for that. Best man I ever worked for. He would have made a great coach because he could let you know when he was not pleased with your work but when he was pleased he made you feel like a million bucks. And he supported the people who worked for him. Reminds me a lot of Dabo in many ways.

Great post. Thank you.

 

[JAMCRACKER99]

Great post. Thank you.

You're welcome sir. By the way you have become one of my favorite posters on the board. Very informative and always very professional adding some perspective from which many posters, myself included, can learn. I really appreciate your contributions!

 

[ChicagoTiger85]

Some of you live in a completely different world than me. I understand your experiences have to count for something. That is completely logical. But you don't think that is a gross generalization even based on your experiences? If I did that I'd have a problem with a bunch of innocent white people.

I'm speaking to your skepticism of others stories. Like I said I understand your experiences have to have some influence on how you believe or think but I can't believe you or other people don't manage that better. I just don't get it. When those individuals that do things like playing the race card they are stupid. Just those people are stupid. Has zero to do with the next person. I purposely manage my emotions so that I won't let my "experiences" impact the innocent next person. And it's actually not that hard. You just have to be intentional. Or I'd imagine you wouldn't be very nice or an emotional wreck. And if you were nice it wouldn't be actually who you really are you'd be just masking how you actually feel. I'm speaking in general. You haven't given me the info to go that far. I'm speaking if I let my experiences have that influence.

Totally agree. I'm just sort of trying to be introspective. Like I said, I'm not always skeptical of claims people make about mistreatment. I'm just wondering if what I've seen might contribute to me being skeptical sometimes.

 

[ChicagoTiger85]

ITT: A whole lot of racists projecting.

Just kidding, kinda.

I think a better question for this board is how many people have called someone a N---er in their lifetime. Then how many regretted it or how many still do it? How many said it directly to someone or merely said it about someone? Otherwise, how many have thought it but didn't say it?

I'm fairly certain there would be a lot of liars or posters who avoid answering, most likely due to fear of backlash. I'm not claiming most of this board have but I would be willing to bet there are enough that have if they're truly being honest.

This is another one where maybe my experience colors what I believe. Maybe it's because I was born in the 80s, but I've never seen or heard a black person be called the N word, and everyone I know would be totally appalled if somebody did that. The worst I can think of are a couple of people who think it's funny to say the word to get a rise out of friends, but they would never say it towards a black person and they always get a negative reaction.

 

[ChicagoTiger85]

Thank you. Why is this concept that hard to follow? It's not....

I think people get that, but then they look at statistics and wonder why the black lives taken by police seem to matter more.

 

[TigerLion06]

I think people get that, but then they look at statistics and wonder why the black lives taken by police seem to matter more.

Looking at raw numbers is not enough. If you have 20 white people clearly assaulted. It's investigated very thoroughly and adjudicated the best way the system knows how. All is well. You have 5 black folks in the exact same situation but none of the aftermath occurs in terms of adequate justice or even concern in some cases. It's not about the numbers. You see a difference in how it was handled. You'd think wait a minute. Do the black lives matter? We know the white lives matter. You can't stop crime but it has to be at least punished. Instead people are focusing on the 20-5 like it's a score. We don't want it to matter more. We want it to matter period.

I saw your earlier post about the n word and it's use in your experiences. I would conclude that you are a good person and you surround yourself with good people. That's a good thing to know. People around you would frown in the face of that behavior. That's great. And I appreciate that.

 

[mskoonce]

I'll contribute a little story to this discussion. I live in a neighborhood in the Raleigh, NC area. Typical upper middle class neighborhood with maybe 70 houses. I would say 90% of the residents are white, with several Asian and several Indian families. Frequently on the weekends there is some type of group of kids coming through selling something to raise funds for some team or trip. It can get annoying but we deal with it.

Last fall a group of boys, probably 14-15 years old, came through raising money for an AAU basketball tournament ( or something like that) they were attending. There were maybe 12 of them, most black but a couple of white and Hispanic ones too. There was an adult with them, and it turns it out he was their Coach and a former NC State basketball player I knew from a league I played in. They were all dressed like you would expect 14-15 year olds would be - sneakers and sweats and athletic gear. Very polite, a little light on the eye contact, talked a little too quietly - in other words typical boys.

Later that day, one of my neighbors from several houses away walked by my house when I was outside. He nodded towards my open garage said "you better check your garage and make sure nothing is missing." I kind of knew where he was going with it, but I asked him why anyway. He said "the hood rats probably couldn't help themselves." I had known this guy for maybe 10 years and
never would have considered that he would have said something like that.

The next week, we all get a notice from the Homeowners Association that they are going to put up some "No Soliciting" signs at the entrance to the neighborhood because of "all the groups coming around asking for money or selling something." Could have been a coincidence but I doubt it.

Now imagine if one of my neighbors would have said something was actually missing and called the police. Who was going to get blamed? That is how subtle racism can be.

 

[TigerLion06]

I'll contribute a little story to this discussion. I live in a neighborhood in the Raleigh, NC area. Typical upper middle class neighborhood with maybe 70 houses. I would say 90% of the residents are white, with several Asian and several Indian families. Frequently on the weekends there is some type of group of kids coming through selling something to raise funds for some team or trip. It can get annoying but we deal with it.

Last fall a group of boys, probably 14-15 years old, came through raising money for an AAU basketball tournament ( or something like that) they were attending. There were maybe 12 of them, most black but a couple of white and Hispanic ones too. There was an adult with them, and it turns it out he was their Coach and a former NC State basketball player I knew from a league I played in. They were all dressed like you would expect 14-15 year olds would be - sneakers and sweats and athletic gear. Very polite, a little light on the eye contact, talked a little too quietly - in other words typical boys.

Later that day, one of my neighbors from several houses away walked by my house when I was outside. He nodded towards my open garage said "you better check your garage and make sure nothing is missing." I kind of knew where he was going with it, but I asked him why anyway. He said "the hood rats probably couldn't help themselves." I had known this guy for maybe 10 years and
never would have considered that he would have said something like that.

The next week, we all get a notice from the Homeowners Association that they are going to put up some "No Soliciting" signs at the entrance to the neighborhood because of "all the groups coming around asking for money or selling something." Could have been a coincidence but I doubt it.

Now imagine if one of my neighbors would have said something was actually missing and called the police. Who was going to get blamed? That is how subtle racism can be.

Great real life example. And none of the people that probably complained to HOA would consider themselves racist. This sort of behavior is very very normal and is a problem. It'll somehow continued to be excused away. It's a horrible feeling to know that's The way people think about you. I hope those kids never find out those people had that reaction. It takes something from you little by little. I'm glad you recognized it and I'm glad you didn't approve of it.

 

[CUTiger1977]

Never. I once was named in a suit against our company by a terminated former direct report for religious persecution. She overheard a religious conversation with another co-worker and shared to me how she as a Christian, had been ostracize by her religious family because of her life style choices and was so happy how supported my wife and I were of her and her partner. We would always sit with them at company functions and dinners. She asked where she might find the information that I was sharing so I gifted her a copy of the book at Christmas. A year later she was terminated for non-performance and she sue citing religious persecution because of the book.

 

[ChicagoTiger85]

Looking at raw numbers is not enough. If you have 20 white people clearly assaulted. It's investigated very thoroughly and adjudicated the best way the system knows how. All is well. You have 5 black folks in the exact same situation but none of the aftermath occurs in terms of adequate justice or even concern in some cases. It's not about the numbers. You see a difference in how it was handled. You'd think wait a minute. Do the black lives matter? We know the white lives matter. You can't stop crime but it has to be at least punished. Instead people are focusing on the 20-5 like it's a score. We don't want it to matter more. We want it to matter period.

I saw your earlier post about the n word and it's use in your experiences. I would conclude that you are a good person and you surround yourself with good people. That's a good thing to know. People around you would frown in the face of that behavior. That's great. And I appreciate that.

I guess my only problem with that is that I think there needs to be objective evidence of what you're saying. In the absence of that, it can appear to some people that saying "black lives matter" when black people are killed by police is asking for something special, not for something equal. It would appear to many people that there's far more scrutiny when police kill a black person, which happens relatively rarely, than when they kill anyone else. There's more pressure to charge and convict police when they kill a black person. Maybe that's a good thing, but things like what's going on in Atlanta with Rayshard Brooks and the DA charging the police officer with felony murder discredit the movement. Finally, while we probably should be more concerned with murders committed by authorities than with murders committed by private citizens, the phrase "black lives matter" doesn't clearly make that distinction. So it might appear to only be referring to some black lives when it focuses on the very small percentage of homicides of black people committed by police (and which is especially small if you're just looking at unarmed black people).

Anyway, I think that sums up why you'll get pushback to using the phrase "black lives matter" in protest of police killing black people.

 

[ChicagoTiger85]

Never. I once was named in a suit against our company by a terminated former direct report for religious persecution. She overheard a religious conversation with another co-worker and shared to me how she as a Christian, had been ostracize by her religious family because of her life style choices and was so happy how supported my wife and I were of her and her partner. We would always sit with them at company functions and dinners. She asked where she might find the information that I was sharing so I gifted her a copy of the book at Christmas. A year later she was terminated for non-performance and she sue citing religious persecution because of the book.

Wait, how does that make sense? This was the person who you gave the book to, or someone else who overheard the conversation about you giving the book to someone?

 

[TigerLion06]

I guess my only problem with that is that I think there needs to be objective evidence of what you're saying. In the absence of that, it can appear to some people that saying "black lives matter" when black people are killed by police is asking for something special, not for something equal. It would appear to many people that there's far more scrutiny when police kill a black person, which happens relatively rarely, than when they kill anyone else. There's more pressure to charge and convict police when they kill a black person. Maybe that's a good thing, but things like what's going on in Atlanta with Rayshard Brooks and the DA charging the police officer with felony murder discredit the movement. Finally, while we probably should be more concerned with murders committed by authorities than with murders committed by private citizens, the phrase "black lives matter" doesn't clearly make that distinction. So it might appear to only be referring to some black lives when it focuses on the very small percentage of homicides of black people committed by police (and which is especially small if you're just looking at unarmed black people).

Anyway, I think that sums up why you'll get pushback to using the phrase "black lives matter" in protest of police killing black people.

I understand why you feel that way. You're new to the party in a sense. This is a cumulative issue. To be honest you'll probably never understand. In my lifetime there's been a much lower standard to accuse and/or "convict" black folks as compared to white folks so your objective evidence is even tainted. When people see me as a suspect I have the burden of proof. Not the state. That's how people's minds work. Not yours. When people talk about it now, my white friends, they say they feel like they have to prove they are not racist instead of being innocent until proven to be one. Dude, that's the story of my life. Nothing I can say can show you that.

To your point starting with we probably should be concerned with murders committed by authorities.....
That's it. It's not probably. And it has zero to do with criminals taking black lives. I expect criminals to be criminals but I shouldn't expect law enforcement to be criminals. And also those black criminals are being punished. Severely punished. And the narrative that we only care about it when an officer does it is media driven. How do you not get that part? Since everyone is equally skeptical about the media you should understand that the media isn't publicizing any rallies or events towards stopping that. Also, you have to understand something that may be very difficult to get. In major cities like Chicago, law enforcement are the kingpins of the crime itself. Until you can grasp that I don't think you'll ever be able to grasp how insignificant bringing up Chicago is. And I haven't even touched on white on white crime and the number of people lost in that area yearly. You know why? Because it's irrelevant to our discussion.

 

[mskoonce]

Great real life example. And none of the people that probably complained to HOA would consider themselves racist. This sort of behavior is very very normal and is a problem. It'll somehow continued to be excused away. It's a horrible feeling to know that's The way people think about you. I hope those kids never find out those people had that reaction. It takes something from you little by little. I'm glad you recognized it and I'm glad you didn't approve of it.

I didnt do anything about it though, I think that is what people are starting to say is part of the problem. Maybe I should have called him out on it, but then he would get pissed and we would no longer be "friends" or whatever you call it. Its a dilemma for sure.

 

[CUTiger1977]

Wait, how does that make sense? This was the person who you gave the book to, or someone else who overheard the conversation about you giving the book to someone?

Sorry if it was not clear. The person who overheard the conversation ask questions about some of the things that were being discussed. I told her it was from a book that I was currently reading. She then told me how great it was working with me as a Non Judgemental Christian, that she wished her family would be as supported. A few weeks later she asked about the book so I gifted her one for Christmas. There was a passage in the book about loving the sinner but not the sin in dealing with homosexuals. She later cited that as being religious persecution in the workplace after being terminated.

When I met with the lawyers, I gave them my copy of the book. By then, I was the Senior employee reporting only to the CEO who I advised to go to court. The lawyers convince him to settle because their fees would be more going to court then paying to make it go away($15,000). I left the company a year and a half later and they still owe me $50,000 in deferred bonus and it's been 12 years. I was the one persecuted now that I think about it but it doesn't matter because I am blessed.

 

[ChicagoTiger85]

I understand why you feel that way. You're new to the party in a sense. This is a cumulative issue. To be honest you'll probably never understand. In my lifetime there's been a much lower standard to accuse and/or "convict" black folks as compared to white folks so your objective evidence is even tainted. When people see me as a suspect I have the burden of proof. Not the state. That's how people's minds work. Not yours. When people talk about it now, my white friends, they say they feel like they have to prove they are not racist instead of being innocent until proven to be one. Dude, that's the story of my life. Nothing I can say can show you that.

To your point starting with we probably should be concerned with murders committed by authorities.....
That's it. It's not probably. And it has zero to do with criminals taking black lives. I expect criminals to be criminals but I shouldn't expect law enforcement to be criminals. And also those black criminals are being punished. Severely punished. And the narrative that we only care about it when an officer does it is media driven. How do you not get that part? Since everyone is equally skeptical about the media you should understand that the media isn't publicizing any rallies or events towards stopping that. Also, you have to understand something that may be very difficult to get. In major cities like Chicago, law enforcement are the kingpins of the crime itself. Until you can grasp that I don't think you'll ever be able to grasp how insignificant bringing up Chicago is. And I haven't even touched on white on white crime and the number of people lost in that area yearly. You know why? Because it's irrelevant to our discussion.

In response to your second paragraph, I think we can bracket a lot of the claims about police and punishing criminals if we want to understand why people question the simple rallying cry of "black lives matter," which doesn't include all the background you mention here. We know that police kill more white people than black people, that police shoot more unarmed white people than black people, that police shooting and killing of black people is not out or proportion to crime committed by black people, and that police homicide of black people is a tiny piece of all homicide of black people. In that context, it does look like the movement is saying that particular black lives matter more than others (whether it's white people shot and killed by police, or black victims of homicide who weren't killed by white people or police).

So I think there will be push back to the movement as long as we're lacking evidence that black lives don't matter to police and the judicial system, and as long as we've got lots of other evidence that other lives (including black lives) are being ignored by the movement. In some ways, the simple and impossible to disagree with slogan of the movement is a double edged sword in that regard. It's very effective as a slogan, but its simplicity invites accusations of hypocrisy.

 

[TigerLion06]

In response to your second paragraph, I think we can bracket a lot of the claims about police and punishing criminals if we want to understand why people question the simple rallying cry of "black lives matter," which doesn't include all the background you mention here. We know that police kill more white people than black people, that police shoot more unarmed white people than black people, that police shooting and killing of black people is not out or proportion to crime committed by black people, and that police homicide of black people is a tiny piece of all homicide of black people. In that context, it does look like the movement is saying that particular black lives matter more than others (whether it's white people shot and killed by police, or black victims of homicide who weren't killed by white people or police).

So I think there will be push back to the movement as long as we're lacking evidence that black lives don't matter to police and the judicial system, and as long as we've got lots of other evidence that other lives (including black lives) are being ignored by the movement. In some ways, the simple and impossible to disagree with slogan of the movement is a double edged sword in that regard. It's very effective as a slogan, but its simplicity invites accusations of hypocrisy.

You can call it what you want. If people are hung up on what it's called and not appalled by what's happening then it simply doesn't matter. It's a wasted exercise. I don't know any other way to put it. The fact that you keep citing statistics means I'm not doing a very good job explaining. All good.

 

[Charybdis]

"We know that police kill more white people than black people, that police shoot more unarmed white people than black people, that police shooting and killing of black people is not out or proportion to crime committed by black people, and that police homicide of black people is a tiny piece of all homicide of black people."

The shooting data I've seen indicates that when looking at individuals shot by police, black individuals were 2 to 3 times more like to have been unarmed than their white or hispanic counterparts.

 

[ChicagoTiger85]

"We know that police kill more white people than black people, that police shoot more unarmed white people than black people, that police shooting and killing of black people is not out or proportion to crime committed by black people, and that police homicide of black people is a tiny piece of all homicide of black people."

The shooting data I've seen indicates that when looking at individuals shot by police, black individuals were 2 to 3 times more like to have been unarmed than their white or hispanic counterparts.

True, but in absolute numbers, more unarmed white people are shot and killed by police than black people. We'd expect that to be the case given that black people are only 12% of the population. But black people also commit a disproportionate amount of violent crime, to the point that black people are actually slightly less likely to be killed by police while committing a violent crime than a white person is. I haven't seen anything that indicates that black lives don't matter to police.

Those numbers are relevant... if you're discussing the police's threat to people's lives. But if you're talking about non-lethal use of force or just general interactions with police, I think there's probably a better case for some discrimination going on (although some people would disagree). See this piece from a couple days ago: https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-the-data-say-about-police-11592845959. There's also the fact that a lot of black people don't trust police, and that a movement claiming that police don't care about black lives would get so much support. So clearly, something needs to be done about that, even if police aren't killing black people out of proportion to crime.

 

[PawsFan_]

I'm fairly certain there would be a lot of liars or posters who avoid answering, most likely due to fear of backlash.

You are absolutely right. How many people have lost their jobs because I something that they said or posted years ago? More than the number of COVID cases in SC today I bet.

 

[ChicagoTiger85]

You are absolutely right. How many people have lost their jobs because I something that they said or posted years ago? More than the number of COVID cases in SC today I bet.

I really doubt it's more than 890 people. At least not recently.

 

[PawsFan_]

I really doubt it's more than 890 people. At least not recently.

You are fooling yourself then. I not talking just this week. Google "Fired for racist comments." The list of articles goes on and on.

 

[ChicagoTiger85]

You are fooling yourself then. I not talking just this week. Google "Fired for racist comments." The list of articles goes on and on.

Lots of people should be fired for racist comments, though.

 

[Brucepg2000]

True, but in absolute numbers, more unarmed white people are shot and killed by police than black people. We'd expect that to be the case given that black people are only 12% of the population. But black people also commit a disproportionate amount of violent crime, to the point that black people are actually slightly less likely to be killed by police while committing a violent crime than a white person is. I haven't seen anything that indicates that black lives don't matter to police.

Those numbers are relevant... if you're discussing the police's threat to people's lives. But if you're talking about non-lethal use of force or just general interactions with police, I think there's probably a better case for some discrimination going on (although some people would disagree). See this piece from a couple days ago: https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-the-data-say-about-police-11592845959. There's also the fact that a lot of black people don't trust police, and that a movement claiming that police don't care about black lives would get so much support. So clearly, something needs to be done about that, even if police aren't killing black people out of proportion to crime.

The numbers are only relevant if you assume that the legal representation and judgment is equal. If you can afford a good lawyer the probability of getting your case moved down to a non-violent offense "depending upon the crime" increases significantly.
It's the slightest benefit of the doubt or not that makes the difference.

People are really on edge right now though.

 

[ChicagoTiger85]

The numbers are only relevant if you assume that the legal representation and judgment is equal. If you can afford a good lawyer the probability of getting your case moved down to a non-violent offense "depending upon the crime" increases significantly.
It's the slightest benefit of the doubt or not that makes the difference.

People are really on edge right now though.

No doubt. I’m not sure how they measured “violent crime” in the studies I’ve seen, though. Like, I’m not sure if that’s what they were arrested for or what they eventually were charged with/convicted of.