Illegal immigrants stepping up for us

[nytigerfan]

Interesting article. Illegal immigrants that pick our food for us have gone from evading ICE one month ago to now having special letters from homeland security identifying them as critical workers to keep our food supply going.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/...rs-agriculture.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

 

[jmh9713]

Interesting article. Illegal immigrants that pick our food for us have gone from evading ICE one month ago to now having special letters from homeland security identifying them as critical workers to keep our food supply going.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/...rs-agriculture.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

Im not even doing this s@@@ today. Not. Doing. It.

Have a great day

 

[coop#]

Yep. It's fun being intolerant and racist until you need them.

 

[casellers84]

Can you imagine being that much of a loser that 100% of the threads you create on a sports message board get zapped? Probably time to find another outlet to push your agenda.

 

[scott in nashville]

I just paid my landscapers to mulch, not an American in the bunch. They were all gracious, conscientious, and did a good job.
They’re doing the work no one else wants to do.

That doesn’t mean they should get rights and benefits of a citizens to me, but they take that risk knowingly.

 

[FightingDevilTiger]

I just paid my landscapers to mulch, not an American in the bunch. They were all gracious, conscientious, and did a good job.
They’re doing the work no one else wants to do.

That doesn’t mean they should get rights and benefits of a citizens to me, but they take that risk knowingly.

Or doing the work for a price that is either under what is a normal salary or under the table so the payer doesn't have to pay taxes.

 

[TheValley91]

I just paid my landscapers to mulch, not an American in the bunch. They were all gracious, conscientious, and did a good job.
They’re doing the work no one else wants to do.

That doesn’t mean they should get rights and benefits of a citizens to me, but they take that risk knowingly.

They should have an easier or more realistic route of becoming a permanent resident though.

Or doing the work for a price that is either under what is a normal salary or under the table so the payer doesn't have to pay taxes.

If you gave them the opportunity to become at least a permanent resident and pay taxes, majority of them would sign up for that in a heartbeat.

They want to make a living and support their family like the rest of us.

 

[nytigerfan]

Can you imagine being that much of a loser that 100% of the threads you create on a sports message board get zapped? Probably time to find another outlet to push your agenda.

can you imagine being that much is a loser that you take time to reply to those threads?

 

[tigerfan700]

Can you imagine being that much of a loser that 100% of the threads you create on a sports message board get zapped? Probably time to find another outlet to push your agenda.

Did that border wall stop the coronavirus from penetrating into the US? Asking for a friend.

 

[CUGladiator]

As the Covid count increases, so does my ignore list

 

[tallulahtiger30319]

I just paid my landscapers to mulch, not an American in the bunch. They were all gracious, conscientious, and did a good job.
They’re doing the work no one else wants to do.

That doesn’t mean they should get rights and benefits of a citizens to me, but they take that risk knowingly.

yo. Just bc they’re Hispanic doesn’t mean they’re illegal. Plenty come here the right way.

if you use a proper landscape company there’s a good chance they’re all here legally. Good for them.

 

[scott in nashville]

yo. Just bc they’re Hispanic doesn’t mean they’re illegal. Plenty come here the right way.

if you use a proper landscape company there’s a good chance they’re all here legally. Good for them.

I’ve known the owner for a while, he’s legal but most of his employees are not. He says he can’t get people to work, so he takes what he can get.

 

[tallulahtiger30319]

yo. Just bc they’re Hispanic doesn’t mean they’re illegal. Plenty come here the right way.

I’ve known the owner for a while, he’s legal but most of his employees are not. He says he can’t get people to work, so he takes what he can get.

dang. That’s terrible. He’s putting a lot at risk.

 

[nsp1996]

This is a good thing. No sense in risking any additional economic disruption until this thing is under control.

Once we have it under control we can get back to enforcing our laws and national sovereignty andtm round them up.

Maybe giving them letters now might make that process easier later.

 

[Woody1405]

What amazes me is all of the attention, effort, hype and money we have wasted on an "enemy" along the southern border and hardly a glance, nary a sentence and virtually no money on a virus that has decimated our economy that Bill Gates warned us about in 2015. Talk about bad judgment!

 

[nsp1996]

What amazes me is all of the attention, effort, hype and money we have wasted on an "enemy" along the southern border and hardly a glance, nary a sentence and virtually no money on a virus that has decimated our economy that Bill Gates warned us about in 2015. Talk about bad judgment!

I disagree that money spent to secure our southern border is wasted. It is needed and squarely a Federal government responsibility.

Thats awesome that bill gates said what he said. Lots of people say stuff. Bill gates is hardly an expert on pzndemics or national security so his opinions mean as much as anyones.

 

[nytigerfan]

This is a good thing. No sense in risking any additional economic disruption until this thing is under control.

Once we have it under control we can get back to enforcing our laws and national sovereignty andtm round them up.

Maybe giving them letters now might make that process easier later.

Not sure if you read it, but I think you are missing the point. they are doing a job that no American wants to do, and are happy to do it. And we literally cannot live without them doing it. I am not for open borders by any means, and certainly we need some immigration reform. But it just shows the complexity of the issue. A month ago our government was screaming for these people to be deported, now we are protecting them as essential. They were essential before covid, are essential during covid, and will be essential after it.

 

[nsp1996]

Not sure if you read it, but I think you are missing the point. they are doing a job that no American wants to do, and are happy to do it. And we literally cannot live without them doing it. I am not for open borders by any means, and certainly we need some immigration reform. But it just shows the complexity of the issue. A month ago our government was screaming for these people to be deported, now we are protecting them as essential. They were essential before covid, are essential during covid, and will be essential after it.

I will admit to not reading. So I'll admit to likely missing the point.

The economic and human costs to American citizens of our federal government's failure to enforce our immigration laws and secure our border is immense. I feel for all those people living in sh*holes around the world, but when it comes time for nut-cutting... I prioritize America and American citizens.

I don't think that your portrayal is 100% accurate. "The government" is not trying to send squads going house to house deporting people. As far as us not being able to live... we could. But just as if people want to counter China they will have to pay more for "American" so will we need to pay more for produce.

I think that illegals should be deported. And I want my government to have this as their overall mindset. That is my going in positon.

I think that we need to start with the criminals and then work our way down to the point where it doesn't make any sense. Just like I believe that we should exercise the death penalty, but yet still acknowledge that we need death penalty reform. Hey lets start... a middle aged man convicted with DNA evidence of rape of a pre-teen child? Death. Lets start there and execute 100% of those MFers quickly. Common sense.

Anyway, I digress. But these Illegals are not saving us because that is their intent, these Mexican (or take your pick) citizens are in it for themselves. That was my reason for responding. "Saving?" Saving themselves.

 

[TheValley91]

I will admit to not reading. So I'll admit to likely missing the point.

The economic and human costs to American citizens of our federal government's failure to enforce our immigration laws and secure our border is immense. I feel for all those people living in sh*holes around the world, but when it comes time for nut-cutting... I prioritize America and American citizens.

I don't think that your portrayal is 100% accurate. "The government" is not trying to send squads going house to house deporting people. As far as us not being able to live... we could. But just as if people want to counter China they will have to pay more for "American" so will we need to pay more for produce.

I think that illegals should be deported. And I want my government to have this as their overall mindset. That is my going in positon.

I think that we need to start with the criminals and then work our way down to the point where it doesn't make any sense. Just like I believe that we should exercise the death penalty, but yet still acknowledge that we need death penalty reform. Hey lets start... a middle aged man convicted with DNA evidence of rape of a pre-teen child? Death. Lets start there and execute 100% of those MFers quickly. Common sense.

Anyway, I digress. But these Illegals are not saving us because that is their intent, these Mexican (or take your pick) citizens are in it for themselves. That was my reason for responding. "Saving?" Saving themselves.

You have your right to an opinion. Couldn't disagree more with it.

 

[nsp1996]

You have your right to an opinion. Couldn't disagree more with it.

Great. You strongly disagree. Can't say much more to that given what you've said.

This (so far) is a civil discussion, and as a part of that, It would be interesting to hear your POV and engage in some back and forth, but that in no way obliges you in any way.

 

[TheValley91]

Great. You strongly disagree. Can't say much more to that given what you've said.

This (so far) is a civil discussion, and as a part of that, It would be interesting to hear your POV and engage in some back and forth, but that in no way obliges you in any way.

I've given some of my thoughts above in this thread. It's also from a POV that has seen the immigration process first hand.

 

[JAMCRACKER99]

As the Covid count increases, so does my ignore list

Unfortunately your list is really going to grow this week according to the Surgeon General.

 

[nsp1996]

I've given some of my thoughts above in this thread. It's also from a POV that has seen the immigration process first hand.

You know, I only went up to your immediate previous post, but I agree with most all of what you said.

Common-sense Americans can solve this. Stop more illegals from coming in. Step 1 . While that is happening, (Step 1a) get rid of violent crimminal illegals and/or those who repetitively violate our law and their families. Ruthlessly (why not, they are illegals). Then work to give a path to citizenship to those who have already gotten here. Step 1b. Eliminate birthright citizenship for children of non-citizens. Step 2...crack down on all wire transfers of $$ to Mexico. (eliminate the incentive for more illegals to come here).

Only in our bizzaro world is this hard.

 

[Howard's Jock]

Im not even doing this s@@@ today. Not. Doing. It.

Have a great day

Why?

 

[TheValley91]

You know, I only went up to your immediate previous post, but I agree with most all of what you said.

Common-sense Americans can solve this. Stop more illegals from coming in. Step 1 . While that is happening, (Step 1a) get rid of violent crimminal illegals and/or those who repetitively violate our law and their families. Ruthlessly (why not, they are illegals). Then work to give a path to citizenship to those who have already gotten here. Step 1b. Eliminate birthright citizenship for children of non-citizens. Step 2...crack down on all wire transfers of $$ to Mexico. (eliminate the incentive for more illegals to come here).

Only in our bizzaro world is this hard.

Im fine with cracking down on all criminals. I somewhat cringe when people talk about "illegal criminals" as one of the main things in an immigration conversation. Sure there are criminals that should be taken away but the rhetoric really has an impact on how alot of Americans look at immigrants in general. It seems to make the conversation more hostile as well.

My big focus is on immigration reform. It is extremely difficult to become a permanent resident in the United States and dont even get started on becoming a citizen. There should be an avenue that doesn't dissuade hard working, honest people to be a part of this country.

The wire transfer doesnt bother me in the least.

 

[treetiger]

Oh well, another thread for the 'Round table'. Maybe we should just have another forum option the Coronavirus thread that any subject is acceptable?

 

[nsp1996]

Im fine with cracking down on all criminals. I somewhat cringe when people talk about "illegal criminals" as one of the main things in an immigration conversation. Sure there are criminals that should be taken away but the rhetoric really has an impact on how alot of Americans look at immigrants in general. It seems to make the conversation more hostile as well.

My big focus is on immigration reform. It is extremely difficult to become a permanent resident in the United States and dont even get started on becoming a citizen. There should be an avenue that doesn't dissuade hard working, honest people to be a part of this country.

The wire transfer doesnt bother me in the least.

'

People who cross our border without proper authorization are criminals. Period. It's not a hard concept. Break law = Become a criminal. I was simply trying to prioritize the worst of the criminals, that's all. But, they all are. Rhetoric having an impact? Lol. I hope it has impact on American's view of Illegal Aliens. It should.

I did pay attention to your post. From my perspective, you seem to have the most concern for those who want to come here, and those who are here illegally. Much less concern for the taxpaying American Citizen. Where does your loyalty lie?

 

[nsp1996]

Oh well, another thread for the 'Round table'. Maybe we should just have another forum option the Coronavirus thread that any subject is acceptable?

Hey what else is there to talk about? What Dabo had for dinner?

 

[TheValley91]

'

People who cross our border without proper authorization are criminals. Period. It's not a hard concept. Break law = Become a criminal. I was simply trying to prioritize the worst of the criminals, that's all. But, they all are. Rhetoric having an impact? Lol. I hope it has impact on American's view of Illegal Aliens. It should.

I did pay attention to your post. From my perspective, you seem to have the most concern for those who want to come here, and those who are here illegally. Much less concern for the taxpaying American Citizen. Where does your loyalty lie?

I love my country and I'm proud to be an American. And as a proud American citizen, I can see the faults that we have in some systems. I want our country to be the best it can be. In my opinion, that is having a system in place to bring in other hard working, honest individuals to add even more value to our country. And right now I don't think that system is working at its best capacity. If we are going to have a civil conversation, do not question my loyalty as if you are in a position to do so. I won't question yours either.

The rhetoric doesn't only have an impact on the view of illegal immigrants but also legal immigrants. As you know, there isn't a big L you put on your shirt when your status changes. People hear an accent or see the color of someone's skin, and they can make terrible assumptions. There are legal immigrants here that are still looked down upon because they weren't born in this country. But they work just as hard as you and I while also paying taxes just the same as you or I.

I agree that we have borders in place for a reason. I also agree that people who are illegally here should not be given every right as a citizen. I also agree that any violent criminals from another country should be deported. But there should be a more efficient path for people who want to come to this country, or are currently living here and want to change their status.

 

[nsp1996]

You had me wondering with your "immigrant" focus. Seemed to be that all your concern was for non-citizens, which seems still to be your focus. But, i'll admit honestly to maybe having that wrong.

We do have a system for legal immigration. I'm not anti immigrant . So we agree about illegal aliens? Illegals are illegal, breaking our laws and on their face shouldn't be here?

Spare me all the racial discrimination stuff. The issue is with those here ILLEGALLY.

Tax paying illegals? Sure I'm sure there are some. However. I am a US Citizen and I believe in our laws. Most here illegally are not vying for the top jobs at NASA. I personally have never been seen by an illegal Doctor or Dentist. Maybe they pay taxes.. but a lot don't. AND.. many receive far more in "tax rebates" and their multiple kids consume more resources than they pay in taxes...

 

[TheValley91]

You had me wondering with your "immigrant" focus. Seemed to be that all your concern was for non-citizens, which seems still to be your focus. But, i'll admit honestly to maybe having that wrong.

We do have a system for legal immigration. I'm not anti immigrant . So we agree about illegal aliens? Illegals are illegal, breaking our laws and on their face shouldn't be here?

Spare me all the racial discrimination stuff. The issue is with those here ILLEGALLY.

Tax paying illegals? Sure I'm sure there are some. However. I am a US Citizen and I believe in our laws. Most here illegally are not vying for the top jobs at NASA. I personally have never been seen by an illegal Doctor or Dentist. Maybe they pay taxes.. but a lot don't. AND.. many receive far more in "tax rebates" and their multiple kids consume more resources than they pay in taxes...

This thread was started about immigrants. Obviously that is my focus. Also yes there is an immigration system but it is very inefficient. From the beginning of this conversation I have made it clear that number one I want it to be reformed.

When you talk about illegal aliens you make it seem as if it is black and white. Such as life there is nuance, especially in a issue as big as this. People here without a status are indeed breaking the law. But it isnt without some grey in their situation.
Americans break the law everyday whether its smoking weed, speeding, not being fully honest on their taxes etc. But I dont vilify them like many people do immigrants.

If you read my post again, I mentioned nothing about illegal aliens paying taxes but you are correct there are those who do. While you talk about there being many who take advantage of the system (I disagree on the word many) far more add value to our society by the work they do on a daily basis. As pointed out by others in this thread, they might not be the doctors or lawyers but they probably built your house, farmed your groceries, cleaned your buildings, landscaped your neighborhood and so on. And they do that for the same reason we do, because they are trying to make a better life for their family.

Again as I've said before, I have first hand experience with different statuses of immigrants. Do you? Do actually understand the immigration process? Most Americans have no clue. Because if they did, their POV would change drastically.

That is all from me on this topic. Stay safe.

 

[Woody1405]

I disagree that money spent to secure our southern border is wasted. It is needed and squarely a Federal government responsibility.

Thats awesome that bill gates said what he said. Lots of people say stuff. Bill gates is hardly an expert on pzndemics or national security so his opinions mean as much as anyones.

Given his track record and the fact what he said was during a "Ted Talk", I think I would give a lot of weight to what he said. And he is quite knowledgeable about pandemics. Go to Youtube and watch it and then let us know what you think.

 

[nytigerfan]

I disagree that money spent to secure our southern border is wasted. It is needed and squarely a Federal government responsibility.

Thats awesome that bill gates said what he said. Lots of people say stuff. Bill gates is hardly an expert on pzndemics or national security so his opinions mean as much as anyones.

This is not accurate. The Gates Foundation is heavily involved in this fight, they are helping coordinate the response with the CDC and most major governments. Google "bill gates virus ted talk" and see his talk from 2015. He predicted the exact scenario we are in.

 

[tallulahtiger30319]

This thread was started about immigrants. Obviously that is my focus. Also yes there is an immigration system but it is very inefficient. From the beginning of this conversation I have made it clear that number one I want it to be reformed.

When you talk about illegal aliens you make it seem as if it is black and white. Such as life there is nuance, especially in a issue as big as this. People here without a status are indeed breaking the law. But it isnt without some grey in their situation.
Americans break the law everyday whether its smoking weed, speeding, not being fully honest on their taxes etc. But I dont vilify them like many people do immigrants.

If you read my post again, I mentioned nothing about illegal aliens paying taxes but you are correct there are those who do. While you talk about there being many who take advantage of the system (I disagree on the word many) far more add value to our society by the work they do on a daily basis. As pointed out by others in this thread, they might not be the doctors or lawyers but they probably built your house, farmed your groceries, cleaned your buildings, landscaped your neighborhood and so on. And they do that for the same reason we do, because they are trying to make a better life for their family.

Again as I've said before, I have first hand experience with different statuses of immigrants. Do you? Do actually understand the immigration process? Most Americans have no clue. Because if they did, their POV would change drastically.

That is all from me on this topic. Stay safe.

Hey Valley. I think we have similar experiences with the immigration process. Iirc, you married a Brazilian girl. You never said if she came here legally or illegally, but I suspect hers was a legal process. I have many, many, many friends, close friends in fact, who entered America following the legal process. I have personally attended many swearing in/oath of citizenship ceremonies and wept with these friends who went about it the right way and ultimately achieved their goal of citizenship. For me, the people who went through the immigration process the right way show much greater fortitude and feel stronger about their commitment to this country than those who sneak in. But maybe that's just me. I understand that your position is going to be colored by your personal experience, just as mine is. However, regardless of your personal lens through which you view this topic, the legality IS pretty damned black or white, and I can't imagine trying to argue otherwise. In summary, I know many people who went about it the right way. I have known only 1 person who went about it illegally, and I ultimately distanced myself from her. I feel that strongly about laws. Also, I feel that same way about all the other laws you cited that Americans break on the daily (speeding, weed, etc.) We are a nation built around a system of law and order. And people who begin their America journey by breaking the law just cannot be tolerated.

Just my 2 cents. Carry on.

 

[nytigerfan]

Hey Valley. I think we have similar experiences with the immigration process. Iirc, you married a Brazilian girl. You never said if she came here legally or illegally, but I suspect hers was a legal process. I have many, many, many friends, close friends in fact, who entered America following the legal process. I have personally attended many swearing in/oath of citizenship ceremonies and wept with these friends who went about it the right way and ultimately achieved their goal of citizenship. For me, the people who went through the immigration process the right way show much greater fortitude and feel stronger about their commitment to this country than those who sneak in. But maybe that's just me. I understand that your position is going to be colored by your personal experience, just as mine is. However, regardless of your personal lens through which you view this topic, the legality IS pretty damned black or white, and I can't imagine trying to argue otherwise. In summary, I know many people who went about it the right way. I have known only 1 person who went about it illegally, and I ultimately distanced myself from her. I feel that strongly about laws. Also, I feel that same way about all the other laws you cited that Americans break on the daily (speeding, weed, etc.) We are a nation built around a system of law and order. And people who begin their America journey by breaking the law just cannot be tolerated.

Just my 2 cents. Carry on.

this issue is not black or white at all. Did you read the article? They specifically mentioned this is a "gray area" and an "open secret". If one month ago, ICE raided all of the farms in america and deported all of the illegals, the industry would have come to a halt and there would be a major food shortage right now, people would be dying. This why these illegals were given special letters from homeland security during this virus so that they would not be stopped on the way to work. These illegal immigrants work here was determined as vital. Was yours? Was mine? No.

Deport them all and starve. That is black and white.

 

[TheValley91]

Hey Valley. I think we have similar experiences with the immigration process. Iirc, you married a Brazilian girl. You never said if she came here legally or illegally, but I suspect hers was a legal process. I have many, many, many friends, close friends in fact, who entered America following the legal process. I have personally attended many swearing in/oath of citizenship ceremonies and wept with these friends who went about it the right way and ultimately achieved their goal of citizenship. For me, the people who went through the immigration process the right way show much greater fortitude and feel stronger about their commitment to this country than those who sneak in. But maybe that's just me. I understand that your position is going to be colored by your personal experience, just as mine is. However, regardless of your personal lens through which you view this topic, the legality IS pretty damned black or white, and I can't imagine trying to argue otherwise. In summary, I know many people who went about it the right way. I have known only 1 person who went about it illegally, and I ultimately distanced myself from her. I feel that strongly about laws. Also, I feel that same way about all the other laws you cited that Americans break on the daily (speeding, weed, etc.) We are a nation built around a system of law and order. And people who begin their America journey by breaking the law just cannot be tolerated.

Just my 2 cents. Carry on.

I agree that people who successfully go through the process of becoming a legal immigrant, should be greatly celebrated. My wife and I are beyond blessed to have gone through the process without too much struggle but I know that there are many who arent afforded the same opportunity or have the chance to go through that process for many different reasons. That's where I have more sympathy than maybe others do.

If you feel strongly about americans breaking laws as you do immigrants than by all means feel that way. I appreciate the consistency.

I also appreciate the civil response. Stay safe during these times.

 

[tallulahtiger30319]

this issue is not black or white at all. Did you read the article? They specifically mentioned this is a "gray area" and an "open secret". If one month ago, ICE raided all of the farms in america and deported all of the illegals, the industry would have come to a halt and there would be a major food shortage right now, people would be dying. This why these illegals were given special letters from homeland security during this virus so that they would not be stopped on the way to work. These illegal immigrants work here was determined as vital. Was yours? Was mine? No.

Deport them all and starve. That is black and white.

Legality is black and white. Not talking about effect. Just legality.

 

[nsp1996]

Given his track record and the fact what he said was during a "Ted Talk", I think I would give a lot of weight to what he said. And he is quite knowledgeable about pandemics. Go to Youtube and watch it and then let us know what you think.

Him being on Ted Talks (a great forum, btw) is not proof of anything other than the people of Ted Talks like him.

I'm not saying that he isn't right. He could be totally right. That was not my point. Him saying something outside the tech space doesn't deserve any special consideration. It is a voice. Just like anyone else's. No more special that a Hollywood celebrity. No more special than yours or mine or any other citizen. He has no demonstrated prior expertise in pandemics.

I will listen and I may agree. BUT, that doesn't make him an expert, no more than a stopped clock is an expert on the time since it shows the correct time twice every day.

 

[nsp1996]

This is not accurate. The Gates Foundation is heavily involved in this fight, they are helping coordinate the response with the CDC and most major governments. Google "bill gates virus ted talk" and see his talk from 2015. He predicted the exact scenario we are in.

@nytigerfan , @Woody1405

Working thru my alerts in sequence... Your posts have led me to do more research. It seems to me that Bill Gates has been active in this space for a while. And he has made correct calls. However I will say that it is not that hard to make calls for disasters but assign no time frame. So I'm not willing to anoint him as the Nostradamus of pandemics.

Also, it's easy to have people treat you like you are smart and give you a platform when you are rich and powerful.

However you have convinced me. Bill Gates is an informed actor and is knowledgeable on this subject. Not by any training but by his reach and by the fact that he is smart. He can synthesize information from a wide variety of sources which his money gives him access to.

 

[Casa_del_Tigre]

Do people have actual issues with Hispanics? Generally speaking I don’t see how they aren’t a net positive on this country.