ITT: We discuss the negatives of your party

[Tiger Guru]

It's become increasingly odd to me to see people defend their party, even when they do wrong. As someone who absolutely loves good old fashion discussion, I think it's making people blinded to their downfalls. How does one learn from their mistakes if they always make excuses or defend them?

In this thread, let's talk about what you think your party is wrong for, shouldn't do or something about them that makes you cringe, and you wish they would change.

Don't defend them in here. Instead, discuss what they do wrong.

Hopefully, our tribalism isn't too strong, and this isn't impossible. But I think there's lots of people who could learn from a thread like this, and I am addicted to learning.

We all know what right and wrong is. Lying, cheating and stealing is wrong and corrupt, we would all agree.

What say you?

 

[dpic73]

I doubt you'll get many hits here but I'll start. I'm not aligned with the far-left of my party especially when it comes to crime. I'm more of a hard-ass than the average Democrat and believe that we should do everything in our power to ensure safety for all citizens. I particularly take issue with the leadership in San Francisco and Chicago because they have failed their communities in my opinion. The DA in Los Angeles is another one that should have been fired a long time ago. Oh and 'defund the police' is the dumbest slogan ever.

 

[Tiger Guru]

I doubt you'll get many hits here but I'll start. I'm not aligned with the far-left of my party especially when it comes to crime. I'm more of a hard-ass than the average Democrat and believe that we should do everything in our power to ensure safety for all citizens. I particularly take issue with the leadership in San Francisco and Chicago because they have failed their communities in my opinion. The DA in Los Angeles is another one that should have been fired a long time ago. Oh and 'defund the police' is the dumbest slogan ever.

Yeah, it’s wild how discussions have nearly become extinct.

It’s just opinions being shouted, which are fine, but nobody is listening. Not even the one shouting. I find it strange that with such a massively impactful thing in our ever day lives, far more than anything else, it’s the one we discuss the least. We’re not willing to think about things and problem solve by talking. It’s insanely genius that we’ve been groomed to not talk about the people handling our money or directly impacting our lives.

I think it’s safe our country was founded on the idea that people could have differing opinions, but still want America to be the best version of itself. I don’t think any of them dreamed of illegally working with other countries, meddling in their elections or creating wars funded by the citizens so they could get richer. I also don’t think they ever intended us to be so tribal and not converse on how to keep it great.

I’m a fan of learning, as you know. I like talking about things. I love hearing about things. These things matter greatly to how my life is going, unfortunately. I don’t think the government was intended to be this powerful either, but here we are.

I appreciate you responding. Someone has to start. We grow by learning and far too many people have just quit learning.

I’ll share mine:
I lean to the right for sure. I haven’t been to church in 20 years, except for Easter which is more of an event or gathering at church, however I do believe in God and I do my best to talk to him daily and have a relationship with him.

I don’t like the extreme right and honestly, much like a lot of the extreme left, I think they’re paid actors. Most I should say. I’m 39 years old and I want America to be the best but if I say Great, I’m a racist. I know you want America to be great as well, I know you’re not racist.

But I only know one actual racist person. He was a friend of mines Grandfather. He was a Mason, he was the most racist person I’ve ever met, but he was a democrat.

Lastly, I can’t stand the corruption through inside trading and funding wars and the Republicans have done a lot of that. Lots of corruption via the Prison system and narcotics. Republicans. Not all, of course but a lot.

I just wish we could end corruption. Not mistakes or bad decisions. Those are different. We’re human and we’re going to do things differently. Leadership at that level is insanely hard. But having people working against you is even harder. I wish that we would stop that.

I just want the people we elect fairly to be out there and held accountable. I don’t care about their wallet or their friends. The power they have over us is as immense as it’s ever been. BTW, none of our media is doing its job. It’s doing the governments job. Feels like checkmate when you own all of the information.

Thanks for the reply!

 

[harristeeter]

Yeah, it’s wild how discussions have nearly become extinct.

It’s just opinions being shouted, which are fine, but nobody is listening. Not even the one shouting. I find it strange that with such a massively impactful thing in our ever day lives, far more than anything else, it’s the one we discuss the least. We’re not willing to think about things and problem solve by talking. It’s insanely genius that we’ve been groomed to not talk about the people handling our money or directly impacting our lives.

I think it’s safe our country was founded on the idea that people could have differing opinions, but still want America to be the best version of itself. I don’t think any of them dreamed of illegally working with other countries, meddling in their elections or creating wars funded by the citizens so they could get richer. I also don’t think they ever intended us to be so tribal and not converse on how to keep it great.

I’m a fan of learning, as you know. I like talking about things. I love hearing about things. These things matter greatly to how my life is going, unfortunately. I don’t think the government was intended to be this powerful either, but here we are.

I appreciate you responding. Someone has to start. We grow by learning and far too many people have just quit learning.

I’ll share mine:
I lean to the right for sure. I haven’t been to church in 20 years, except for Easter which is more of an event or gathering at church, however I do believe in God and I do my best to talk to him daily and have a relationship with him.

I don’t like the extreme right and honestly, much like a lot of the extreme left, I think they’re paid actors. Most I should say. I’m 39 years old and I want America to be the best but if I say Great, I’m a racist. I know you want America to be great as well, I know you’re not racist.

But I only know one actual racist person. He was a friend of mines Grandfather. He was a Mason, he was the most racist person I’ve ever met, but he was a democrat.

Lastly, I can’t stand the corruption through inside trading and funding wars and the Republicans have done a lot of that. Lots of corruption via the Prison system and narcotics. Republicans. Not all, of course but a lot.

I just wish we could end corruption. Not mistakes or bad decisions. Those are different. We’re human and we’re going to do things differently. Leadership at that level is insanely hard. But having people working against you is even harder. I wish that we would stop that.

I just want the people we elect fairly to be out there and held accountable. I don’t care about their wallet or their friends. The power they have over us is as immense as it’s ever been. BTW, none of our media is doing its job. It’s doing the governments job. Feels like checkmate when you own all of the information.

Thanks for the reply!

Your last paragraph should be applauded by people on both sides of the aisle. IMO, this is the biggest travesty to the citizens of the United States for the last 25 years or so. The media's job is not to be an arm extension of one political party or the other. Their job is to help hold the government accountable for the decision's it makes.

If people are being honest, they will concede that the MSM is failing us just as bad as the actual politicians. If they can't admit that, then you know which side of the aisle they vote for without having to look at their registration card.

 

[Dadar]

Honesty, integrity, respect and country above party and personal benefit. Guess I am an idealist without a party who has to eliminate what I see as pure evil and greed.

 

[UrHuckleberry]

It's become increasingly odd to me to see people defend their party, even when they do wrong. As someone who absolutely loves good old fashion discussion, I think it's making people blinded to their downfalls. How does one learn from their mistakes if they always make excuses or defend them?

In this thread, let's talk about what you think your party is wrong for, shouldn't do or something about them that makes you cringe, and you wish they would change.

Don't defend them in here. Instead, discuss what they do wrong.

Hopefully, our tribalism isn't too strong, and this isn't impossible. But I think there's lots of people who could learn from a thread like this, and I am addicted to learning.

We all know what right and wrong is. Lying, cheating and stealing is wrong and corrupt, we would all agree.

What say you?

Color me shocked you aren't getting a lot of responses on this. But I too really appreciate real discussion and respectfully discussing topics. When calm, and making sure you call out your own sides fault in whatever issue can go a long way. It's not always easy because we are often passionate about the subject.

For me, it is somewhat hard in that I was a Republican almost my entire life. It wasn't until Trump and other life events of my own that I started to feel truly center left. So I find myself not truly feeling like either is "my party". I find myself feeling more and more solidly left as Republicans seem to lean more into social politics (battling wokeness, anti-LGBTQ+, DEI, trans issues, etc) rather the fiscal issues (I hear plenty of catch phrases about Bidenomics/inflation, etc but rarely see policies pushed, but rather grievance politics instead).

But as I do likely identify more as a democrat now that the Republican party is really the MAGA party, like Dpic mentioned, I also struggle with crime. But really, that leads me to messaging. A lot of the policies or at least ideas I agree with. But their messaging is horrible and sends the absolute wrong message. Like "Defund the police". Whoever started that and then repeated it should be defunded. The idea behind taking some of the funds used for military equipment to do things like paying for more healthcare professionals, or better training, or even just better pay to attract better candidates and being able to replace bad cops without worried about being understaffed. I also struggle that so many on the left fall for the trap set by Republicans. So often I see Republicans use dog whistles or language that basically amounts to trolling. Its not necessarily overtly racist or offensive or whatever, but is just close enough and the idiots on the left just can't help but take the bait, complain about it, make a big deal about it, call it racist, etc. Even if I agree that the Republican involved knew what they were doing, you can't stoop to the bait, make the story about the comment, and lose the point of the policy or issue being discussed. I also often disagree with the far left of the party of course. Also, I wish they would've found a way to get Biden to drop out prior to the primaries. While I don't necessarily believe that it was intentional and a plan (I really don't think the big donors, etc would've chosen Kamala, even if in some ways she represents a human version of the trolling comment I mentioned earlier on the other side), I think they had to know it was a possibility, and it was clear he wasn't himself and was severely aged. If they had forced the issue then, even if more privately, we could've had a true primary and hopefully a better candidate than Kamala.

 

[UrHuckleberry]

Your last paragraph should be applauded by people on both sides of the aisle. IMO, this is the biggest travesty to the citizens of the United States for the last 25 years or so. The media's job is not to be an arm extension of one political party or the other. Their job is to help hold the government accountable for the decision's it makes.

If people are being honest, they will concede that the MSM is failing us just as bad as the actual politicians. If they can't admit that, then you know which side of the aisle they vote for without having to look at their registration card.

I think part of the issue in this case is two fold:

1. The 24 news cycle and the overlap of what I'll call "talking heads" and actual real news reporting agencies. Think people on TV constantly giving their opinion on actual news, or even predicting or talking about what might have happened can truly come across as news (particularly when they are on a station named after a news agency or with News in its name). But they aren't. They don't have the same editorial integrity, and thats why Fox News can argue in court that someone like Tucker Carlson is entertainment and not news.

2. I see this a lot (since I'm responding to you HT, I want to be clear I am not necessarily talking about you). But often I see a news agency reporting allegations. The allegations have been made, or a court case file, etc etc etc, and they are reporting on it. And if its about someone's "side" or "team" if you will, and then the person ends up being innocent, or the allegations aren't true, etc, I often see people call out the news agency. Which is madness to me. Whether you agree with it or not, someone being charged or accused of something at the highest levels is in fact news. Now, if they are running unsubstantiated rumors, etc, I get it. And I think some sometimes complaints are valid when discussing anonymous sources, etc, so this isn't a cart blanche, its all ok as long as they are just reporting allegations (the media version of "I said with all due respect"). But I do see a lot of complaining about news that is literally just news about someone you like that may not be positive.

 

[harristeeter]

I think part of the issue in this case is two fold:

1. The 24 news cycle and the overlap of what I'll call "talking heads" and actual real news reporting agencies. Think people on TV constantly giving their opinion on actual news, or even predicting or talking about what might have happened can truly come across as news (particularly when they are on a station named after a news agency or with News in its name). But they aren't. They don't have the same editorial integrity, and thats why Fox News can argue in court that someone like Tucker Carlson is entertainment and not news.

2. I see this a lot (since I'm responding to you HT, I want to be clear I am not necessarily talking about you). But often I see a news agency reporting allegations. The allegations have been made, or a court case file, etc etc etc, and they are reporting on it. And if its about someone's "side" or "team" if you will, and then the person ends up being innocent, or the allegations aren't true, etc, I often see people call out the news agency. Which is madness to me. Whether you agree with it or not, someone being charged or accused of something at the highest levels is in fact news. Now, if they are running unsubstantiated rumors, etc, I get it. And I think some sometimes complaints are valid when discussing anonymous sources, etc, so this isn't a cart blanche, its all ok as long as they are just reporting allegations (the media version of "I said with all due respect"). But I do see a lot of complaining about news that is literally just news about someone you like that may not be positive.

You mentioned in another post that you were a Republican and now have shifted. The news media did the opposite for me. I was raised an independent and have voted over my lifetime for both "Pubs" and "Dems". When watching "MSM" it was overtly obvious which party they cater to.
Fox equals "the right"
vs
Every other outlet equals "the left"

For the longest time I just didn't watch any of it........I'm talking years. As you stated, the 24 hour nonstop news cycle is what turned me off. No more "news", just slanted opinion from whomever was on. That's not what I was after, I just wanted the news. The same thing happened over at ESPN years ago when they brought on ESPN News. That started the downfall for me with that company. I wanted highlights, not opinions.

That said, after the debate a few weeks ago I flipped thru multiple outlets CNN, Fox, ABC, CBS, NBC for several days up until Joe "bowed" out and Kamala took over. It's quite comical how the outlets don't even hide it anymore. IMO, if we want to get the nation back together, it starts with having "the information" that is transmitted more in the middle and not so far from center. And that goes for ALL of them.

It's kind of like ESPN always promoting the SEC, everyone hates it that's not in the conference but what were you going to do. It turned alot of people off towards teams in the conference due to always hearing about how great they are. With the MSM, they're always promoting one and downplaying the other. For those that can't see that I don't know what to tell them. Again, that's for BOTH sides.

 

[UrHuckleberry]

You mentioned in another post that you were a Republican and now have shifted. The news media did the opposite for me. I was raised an independent and have voted over my lifetime for both "Pubs" and "Dems". When watching "MSM" it was overtly obvious which party they cater to.
Fox equals "the right"
vs
Every other outlet equals "the left"

For the longest time I just didn't watch any of it........I'm talking years. As you stated, the 24 hour nonstop news cycle is what turned me off. No more "news", just slanted opinion from whomever was on. That's not what I was after, I just wanted the news. The same thing happened over at ESPN years ago when they brought on ESPN News. That started the downfall for me with that company. I wanted highlights, not opinions.

That said, after the debate a few weeks ago I flipped thru multiple outlets CNN, Fox, ABC, CBS, NBC for several days up until Joe "bowed" out and Kamala took over. It's quite comical how the outlets don't even hide it anymore. IMO, if we want to get the nation back together, it starts with having "the information" that is transmitted more in the middle and not so far from center. And that goes for ALL of them.

It's kind of like ESPN always promoting the SEC, everyone hates it that's not in the conference but what were you going to do. It turned alot of people off towards teams in the conference due to always hearing about how great they are. With the MSM, they're always promoting one and downplaying the other. For those that can't see that I don't know what to tell them. Again, that's for BOTH sides.

Right, I think what you're mostly describing is the entertainment side of MSM, the 24 hour news cycle. And for that I completely agree. And also think you're right about the biases. The single hour or two of straight news each day ends up practically hidden. Same thing happens with print (or digital articles) with editorials or opinion pieces, tweets, threads, etc.

My main point I guess is that I think it is still important to note and call out the difference. Because what I see a lot is someone taking frustration with the biased "talking heads" and then use it as an excuse to basically discount actual news that they just don't like.