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**New** Taking the high road

acwill07 said:
It blows my mind that people who are not gay have such strong opinions about gay marriage when in reality it doesn't affect them at all. .
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Au contraire mon ami. It did and DOES affect every person, when opinion thugs and narrative hijackers push this Saul Alinsky schtick. That crap with Clemson last week sprang straight out of "Rules for Radicals". They are neither gay nor straight - at the core they are tyrants.

They tried to affect Swinney, and in a way they did. He judoed it into a positive, despite their best efforts. That's what extremist radicals do. Speech codes. Lawfare. Character assassination and on and on.

Mr. Ard you hit the nail square on the head. Ridicule is what these intolerant bigots deserve, and what every decent person straight or gay should serve them in heaping piles. Ridicule to these narcissistic, tolerance-despising extremists is like garlic to a vampire. Ridicule them at every turn. Never miss a single chance.
 
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Emergence said:
Au contraire mon ami. It did and DOES affect every person, when opinion thugs and narrative hijackers push this Saul Alinsky schtick. That crap with Clemson last week sprang straight out of "Rules for Radicals". They are neither gay nor straight - at the core they are tyrants.

They tried to affect Swinney, and in a way they did. He judoed it into a positive, despite their best efforts. That's what extremist radicals do. Speech codes. Lawfare. Character assassination and on and on.

Mr. Ard you hit the nail square on the head. Ridicule is what these intolerant bigots deserve, and what every decent person straight or gay should serve them in heaping piles. Ridicule to these narcissistic, tolerance-despising extremists is like garlic to a vampire. Ridicule them at every turn. Never miss a single chance.
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I think he was merely talking about people that are strongly opposed to allowing gays to marry. He doesn't understand why people that it doesn't affect feel so strongly about not allowing it.
 
Not to mention we are still waiting for someone to give one of the good reasons for not allowing it. If all men are created equal, and if being gay is not a choice, and if the federal government gives benefits to married couples then how can people that believe in American ideals be so strongly opposed to it unless they know there will be negative consequences for allowing it. Still waiting for someone to tell me the negative consequences when I can only see positives.
 
This is what I don't understand about the"religious". Why should anyone want government involved with marriage at all. They should keep their hands out of it which goes for most things they have their hand in. The govt ruins most if not all it touches anyways.

If you are Christian you should understand that marriage is what it is and the US government can't change it anyways. Really no need to get involved politically with it at all.

We should be more concerned with loving people and showing people grace. Let the government get back to what it should be doing and us get back to loving people.

This is all a non storyif you ask me
 
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FreeSC said:
Bravo, Cris.

Twisting the facts is a common, and purposeful, tactic of the left.

There is just a HUGE difference between "hating gays", and believing that marriage, which has been between a man an woman in every civilization since the beginning of time, should remain that way; and there are good reasons for it.
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1)Twisting the facts is a common and purposeful tactic ...Period.

2) Please name a reason.
 
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TigerAlexander said:
Some have asked for reasons 'why not' gay 'marriage' . . . I paste this link here, not because I think said 'some' will agree with the reasons, but that you might have what, I think, is a good, clear, thoughtful resource to that end:

http://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/kevindeyoung/2015/04/28/why-not-gay-marriage/
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There is nothing close to reason in that entire article. The whole article is under the premise there is something wrong with gays.. saying it's not illegal. There are no reasons in that article there is nothing thoughtful in the entire thing. It says "communities do better when husbands & wife stay together" that's an opinion.What about two people who don't get along make each other miserable & the kid does that help the community? But why wouldn't to gay couples together help the community?

Gay marriage devalues traditional marriage is the biggest crock ever.. one it's not true it has noting to do with another marriage .. secondly how could marriage be more devalued than it already is? Elvis chapels in Vegas don't devalue marriage?

This article is insane.
 
There are a lot of people here arguing for this issue in and of itself that have no damn clue whatsoever what is going on out there. You are willingly being pawns and totally ignorant of the impact taking place. I believe government should stay out of all social issues but they aren't and that's unfortunate. At least understand the impact before selling the bullshit about this not impacting others. What two people of any gender do in their home in terms of intimate relations has zero impact on others and they should be totally free in that regard. However anyone with a clue knows this matter or shall I say the politics behind this matter goes well beyond that point.
 
TopGun01 said:
Steven15, let me know when sex between 2 men or 2 women results in childbirth. That's enough reason for me. Let alone the challenges children face when reared in homes minus a mother or father.
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So gay couples can't get married because they can't produce children? I'm confused by this thinking. So if a man and a woman want to get married but are incapable of having children, where does that leave them? Just curious TopGun01.
 
Cris_Ard said:
Taking the high road
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blasphemy-o.gif
 
andcam said:
I agree completely. The right and especially Fox news loves to distort with lead ins such as "Christianity under Attack" very similar to the way MSNBC distorts with some of the Political Correctness "Hate" stuff. Personally I think Rush started the hysteria journalistic movement but, regardless, it is safe to say that both sides use it to their advantage. The polarization of Congress and both sides only dumbs down journalism and society in general.
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Since you are taking a shot at Fox News and Rush Limbaugh, perhaps you could comment on your thoughts of folks like Rachel Maddow or Chris Matthews.
 
Willence said:
There are a lot of people here arguing for this issue in and of itself that have no damn clue whatsoever what is going on out there. You are willingly being pawns and totally ignorant of the impact taking place. I believe government should stay out of all social issues but they aren't and that's unfortunate. At least understand the impact before selling the bullshit about this not impacting others. What two people of any gender do in their home in terms of intimate relations has zero impact on others and they should be totally free in that regard. However anyone with a clue knows this matter or shall I say the politics behind this matter goes well beyond that point.
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You've been given ample opportunity to show how allowing gay couples to marry has taken away your "religious rights", but you always give platitudes, references to possibly having to send your son to the boy scouts with, who may or may not be, a gay scout leader and a church in Atlanta that is actively trying to separate from the UMC over the fact that they don't like the gays and their diocese does.

I honestly want to know how gay people negatively impact your life/religion...
 
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I support Dabo's decision to decline. This is a purely political lobbying organization. Equally as bad as the media who exploited this are the state lawmakers who exploited this for political purposes by publicly rebuking him for withdrawing.
 
Late to the party but here's my 2 cents:

1) the left has no monopoly on twisting 'facts' to meet their agenda. both conservatives and liberals are guilty of doing it.
2) Dabo Swinney made the right call to not attend because it was a no-win situation for him. His acceptance of an award for his foundation would have been lost in the shouting from the left that he accepted an award from a gay-bashing organizations and the praise from the right that he "stood up for the family."
3) In a conversation with a relative of mine, I suggested that the coach of Notre Dame could be guilty of the same thing if he accepted an award from a Catholic organization (say, the world renown Catholic Relief Services praised him for disaster-relief fundraising). Would he have faced the same scrutiny that Dabo did? (I will mention, here, that I am a practicing Catholic who does not support my Church's teaching opposing gay relationships [let alone marriage]). I doubt that Notre Dame's coach would have been subjected to much criticism because, despite its opposition to gay relationships, the Catholic Church is seen as progressive when it comes to preference for the poor, which is an important topic for the left. But it is an interesting discussion to consider.
 
Transference said:
You've been given ample opportunity to show how allowing gay couples to marry has taken away your "religious rights", but you always give platitudes, references to possibly having to send your son to the boy scouts with, who may or may not be, a gay scout leader and a church in Atlanta that is actively trying to separate from the UMC over the fact that they don't like the gays and their diocese does.

I honestly want to know how gay people negatively impact your life/religion...
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Transference, well, first, you don't get to set the questions and parameters of any discussion on any issue. My beliefs are my beliefs and yours are yours. We disagree, and that is fine. Incidentally, you stated some positions you believe I have but you never read anything that I posted that is even remotely close to your assertions. Boy Scouts, gay Scout leaders, some church in Atlanta, where did you read that in what I have posted? I believe in the traditional marriage, a man and a woman, and I do agree that whatever two consenting adults want to do in their own private area concerning sex, is their business. Gay people do not negatively impact my life or my religion. I have some friends who happen to be gay, and that is fine with me. I disagree with their lifestyle but that is their prerogative. But when you get to the "marriage" situation, then you are asking the government to sanction this union, above and beyond the union itself. I disagree with this sanction.
 
kgwillison said:
Late to the party but here's my 2 cents:

1) the left has no monopoly on twisting 'facts' to meet their agenda. both conservatives and liberals are guilty of doing it.
2) Dabo Swinney made the right call to not attend because it was a no-win situation for him. His acceptance of an award for his foundation would have been lost in the shouting from the left that he accepted an award from a gay-bashing organizations and the praise from the right that he "stood up for the family."
3) In a conversation with a relative of mine, I suggested that the coach of Notre Dame could be guilty of the same thing if he accepted an award from a Catholic organization (say, the world renown Catholic Relief Services praised him for disaster-relief fundraising). Would he have faced the same scrutiny that Dabo did? (I will mention, here, that I am a practicing Catholic who does not support my Church's teaching opposing gay relationships [let alone marriage]). I doubt that Notre Dame's coach would have been subjected to much criticism because, despite its opposition to gay relationships, the Catholic Church is seen as progressive when it comes to preference for the poor, which is an important topic for the left. But it is an interesting discussion to consider.
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I don't have a problem with what you have said except that I believe that "preference for the poor" is an American issue, left and right, and is not exclusive to either side. Those on the right see it as helping the poor to escape their situation, which I don't believe is the belief of the left.
 
hinds62 said:
Transference, well, first, you don't get to set the questions and parameters of any discussion on any issue. My beliefs are my beliefs and yours are yours. We disagree, and that is fine. Incidentally, you stated some positions you believe I have but you never read anything that I posted that is even remotely close to your assertions. Boy Scouts, gay Scout leaders, some church in Atlanta, where did you read that in what I have posted? I believe in the traditional marriage, a man and a woman, and I do agree that whatever two consenting adults want to do in their own private area concerning sex, is their business. Gay people do not negatively impact my life or my religion. I have some friends who happen to be gay, and that is fine with me. I disagree with their lifestyle but that is their prerogative. But when you get to the "marriage" situation, then you are asking the government to sanction this union, above and beyond the union itself. I disagree with this sanction.
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But listen, you can disagree with it all you want and I respect that. The fact of the matter is that keeping people from receiving equal access to government benefits based on religious beliefs or whatever have you, goes against everything that America stands for. In the 2012 election Mitt was approached by a gay veteran who asked how Mitt felt about the fact that when he died the man who he has been with his whole life could only receive a portion of what he has willed to his partner while the government takes a substantial amount, while if he was heterosexual and married his wife would receive his estate in full. Despite your religious beliefs, you have to see the problem in that! It's insane. Mitt told the man that he was sorry but he believed what he believed and it turned into a huge news story. And we missed out on a great president. Once the church started letting marriage be a legal institution by the government, it then became an issue of equality in the eyes of the law and not strictly religious. No church should be forced to perform a marriage but a gay marriage performed by willing participants should be recognized by the federal government.

If you want to convince me otherwise tell me one consequence like we have been asking for. Not platitudes, tell me something that is an "if, then" situation. If we allow then... Everyone will turn gay and we won't reproduce as well or whatever, that's just a hypothetical. I just want to know what you think could happen. It is not enough to say they can't because I don't like it. It's ignorant.
 
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cp1275 said:
By the way. Here is an article by Dick Cheney's daughter written today. "Time for the Republican Party to Embrace Gay Marriage." http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015...rty-leaders-to-embrace-marriage-equality.html
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Cheney's daughter is 100% right. If the Republican party has any desire to get a President in the White House any time in the near future then they are going to have to soften on the gay marriage issue. It's ridiculous that they are letting this one issue that really only affects a minute percentage of the population keep them from getting the important parts of their message do the American people as a whole. It's extremely frustrating.

I am a Christian and it is my belief that folks who claim to be against gay marriage use Christianity as a crutch for their bigotry. I know that they will recite some obscure passage or two from the Bible as evidence that marriage should be between only one man and one woman, but I don't believe Jesus desires his followers to hold their fellow man down and prevent them from finding happiness. There is supposed to be a separation of church and state in this country and marriage in the eyes of the law is a state issue. If certain churches, certain preachers, or even certain denominations do not wish to perform gay marriages in their church then I am wholly supportive of that, because that's their prerogative, but not allowing gay men or women to be joined at a court house or at city hall is another matter entirely.

Furthermore, I just can't wrap my mind around why so many supposed Christians can't just let the issue go. It does not affect them in the slightest, because they are not gay themselves, so IMO they should not care what gay people do or don't do. If God does, in fact, consider homosexuality a sin, then those homosexuals are going to have to answer for it....the salvation of the folks that are fighting it is not in jeopardy. Personally, I just don't care whether or not gay people get married. I find homesexuality to be odd and a little off putting, and if I see two men making out or holding hands on the street I'll turn the other way because seeing that makes me uncomfortable, but IMO homosexuals are born, not made. It's absolutely not their fault that they are gay and people in this country need to realize that all the time and energy spent fighting this issue is damaging the country because there are much more important issues that aren't being addressed because so much time and energy is wasted fighting a pointless battle. Wake up people.
 
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acwill07 said:
Cheney's daughter is 100% right. If the Republican party has any desire to get a President in the White House any time in the near future then they are going to have to soften on the gay marriage issue. It's ridiculous that they are letting this one issue that really only affects a minute percentage of the population keep them from getting the important parts of their message do the American people as a whole. It's extremely frustrating.

I am a Christian and it is my belief that folks who claim to be against gay marriage use Christianity as a crutch for their bigotry. I know that they will recite some obscure passage or two from the Bible as evidence that marriage should be between only one man and one woman, but I don't believe Jesus desires his followers to hold their fellow man down and prevent them from finding happiness. There is supposed to be a separation of church and state in this country and marriage in the eyes of the law is a state issue. If certain churches, certain preachers, or even certain denominations do not wish to perform gay marriages in their church then I am wholly supportive of that, because that's their prerogative, but not allowing gay men or women to be joined at a court house or at city hall is another matter entirely.

Furthermore, I just can't wrap my mind around why so many supposed Christians can't just let the issue go. It does not affect them in the slightest, because they are not gay themselves, so IMO they should not care what gay people do or don't do. If God does, in fact, consider homosexuality a sin, then those homosexuals are going to have to answer for it....the salvation of the folks that are fighting it is not in jeopardy. Personally, I just don't care whether or not gay people get married. I find homesexuality to be odd and a little off putting, and if I see two men making out or holding hands on the street I'll turn the other way because seeing that makes me uncomfortable, but IMO homosexuals are born, not made. It's absolutely not their fault that they are gay and people in this country need to realize that all the time and energy spent fighting this issue is damaging the country because there are much more important issues that aren't being addressed because so much time and energy is wasted fighting a pointless battle. Wake up people.
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Real talk though. Yea two guys are gross because you're straight and they're GUYS. But you know if you see two cute girls walking down the street holding hands, we're all going to check it out. Don't think you are off put by homosexuality bc you don't want to see two dudes getting intimate, when two heterosexuals are making out the only reason that's off putting is because the guy is there. You aren't uncomfortable with homosexuality, it just means you're straight.
 
acwill07 said:
Cheney's daughter is 100% right. If the Republican party has any desire to get a President in the White House any time in the near future then they are going to have to soften on the gay marriage issue. It's ridiculous that they are letting this one issue that really only affects a minute percentage of the population keep them from getting the important parts of their message do the American people as a whole. It's extremely frustrating.

I am a Christian and it is my belief that folks who claim to be against gay marriage use Christianity as a crutch for their bigotry. I know that they will recite some obscure passage or two from the Bible as evidence that marriage should be between only one man and one woman, but I don't believe Jesus desires his followers to hold their fellow man down and prevent them from finding happiness. There is supposed to be a separation of church and state in this country and marriage in the eyes of the law is a state issue. If certain churches, certain preachers, or even certain denominations do not wish to perform gay marriages in their church then I am wholly supportive of that, because that's their prerogative, but not allowing gay men or women to be joined at a court house or at city hall is another matter entirely.

Furthermore, I just can't wrap my mind around why so many supposed Christians can't just let the issue go. It does not affect them in the slightest, because they are not gay themselves, so IMO they should not care what gay people do or don't do. If God does, in fact, consider homosexuality a sin, then those homosexuals are going to have to answer for it....the salvation of the folks that are fighting it is not in jeopardy. Personally, I just don't care whether or not gay people get married. I find homesexuality to be odd and a little off putting, and if I see two men making out or holding hands on the street I'll turn the other way because seeing that makes me uncomfortable, but IMO homosexuals are born, not made. It's absolutely not their fault that they are gay and people in this country need to realize that all the time and energy spent fighting this issue is damaging the country because there are much more important issues that aren't being addressed because so much time and energy is wasted fighting a pointless battle. Wake up people.
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But aside from the very, very end, everything you said is spot on imho
 
I was wondering if TI was going to cover this issue, and I assumed, that it had very little to do with football, and therefore not a subject this site would be interested in. JUST AS DABO realized that this in no way advanced his football program. His only mistake was not vetting this group (or any group for that matter) before agreeing to go. The second mistake was not listening to rational people who warned him in advance that this could and would blow up into a big mess if he didn't put it to bed sooner than later. In the long run, I agree with you, Dabo must investigate any group he speaks in front of in the future. He is not just a coach, he is not just christian, he is a role model who represents Clemson University.

On a side note… I have read all of these responses and I will tell you as a die hard Clemson fan, 3rd generation Clemson graduate, Christian and a gay man, you need to walk in someone else's shoes before you pass too much judgement. There have been and there ARE gay football players on our team. If you think otherwise, you really need to catch up on life. My thoughts are with that kid on the team or the possible recruit who is playing or really wants to come play for a great program, but happens to be gay. He then finds out his coach/future coach is speaking in front of an organization that says that if his parents pray enough and get the correct reparative therapy, their gay son can change to be heterosexual. I challenge any of you who are straight, to try to change your sexuality that you too were born with and did not choose.

I know Dabo and I know people that surround him and can say for certainty, Dabo is in no way anything like those members of the Palmetto Council who claim to have the exclusive interpretation of the Bible. Dabo during the Michael Sam story stated he would not tolerate discrimination in any way on his team. He would never ask a gay player to change etc. He gets it and also knows one can be a Christian and still accept and support people for who they are. Who are we to judge or question the way God made any of us. God made me a gay man, but he also made me ORANGE… and I think that is what we all need to agree on.
 
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purpletiger92 said:
I was wondering if TI was going to cover this issue, and I assumed, that it had very little to do with football, and therefore not a subject this site would be interested in. JUST AS DABO realized that this in no way advanced his football program. His only mistake was not vetting this group (or any group for that matter) before agreeing to go. The second mistake was not listening to rational people who warned him in advance that this could and would blow up into a big mess if he didn't put it to bed sooner than later. In the long run, I agree with you, Dabo must investigate any group he speaks in front of in the future. He is not just a coach, he is not just christian, he is a role model who represents Clemson University.

On a side note… I have read all of these responses and I will tell you as a die hard Clemson fan, 3rd generation Clemson graduate, Christian and a gay man, you need to walk in someone else's shoes before you pass too much judgement. There have been and there ARE gay football players on our team. If you think otherwise, you really need to catch up on life. My thoughts are with that kid on the team or the possible recruit who is playing or really wants to come play for a great program, but happens to be gay. He then finds out his coach/future coach is speaking in front of an organization that says that if his parents pray enough and get the correct reparative therapy, their gay son can change to be heterosexual. I challenge any of you who are straight, to try to change your sexuality that you too were born with and did not choose.

I know Dabo and I know people that surround him and can say for certainty, Dabo is in no way anything like those members of the Palmetto Council who claim to have the exclusive interpretation of the Bible. Dabo during the Michael Sam story stated he would not tolerate discrimination in any way on his team. He would never ask a gay player to change etc. He gets it and also knows one can be a Christian and still accept and support people for who they are. Who are we to judge or question the way God made any of us. God made me a gay man, but he also made me ORANGE… and I think that is what we all need to agree on.
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Good post dude and I applaud you for having the courage to post it.
 
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