New York to require all people to wear masks when in public
- Thread starter Cris_Ard
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where'd you guys go @Ron Munson @Casa_del_Tigre
Would like to hear it explained how you can be so worried about government control yet support a man who claims he has total authority
Would like to hear it explained how you can be so worried about government control yet support a man who claims he has total authority
thats just the snippet.
you should watch the 10 minutes before and 10 minutes after to undrrstand what he was talking about.
Can a car take someones life? Yes. Does it take thousands of lives each year? Yes. Are there laws that are passed in order to mitigate those deaths? Yes. We require cars to be built with minimal safety equipment to limit those deaths and risks to the public health like bumpers, mufflers, functioning brakes, lights, etc. We have speed limits that dictate how fast you can drive. And beyond that, we require every single person to pass an exam and get a license to drive a car. We require drivers to carry liability insurance to cover damages they may inflict on others. There are laws against driving a car while intoxicated. So, again, we DO IN FACT regulate cars heaviliy to mitigate their risk to the public and those laws and regulations save lives and limit your potential for harming someone else when operating your car. Noone is talking about banning cars because they pose a health risk, but we ABSOLUTELY DO regulate them to limit that risk of death.
Cuomo is not saying you cant go out in public again even though you may spread disease to others and harm them. He is just recognizing the potential risk you pose to others during a time where there is a pandemic and is requiring you to mitigate the risk you pose to others when you are out by wearing a simple mask. Its no different than the hundreds of other laws that regulate how you must behave or dress in public to protect others. We don't allow you to smoke in public places to mitigate health risks to others. We don't allow you to drink in public or be intoxicated in public because of risks it may pose to others. We regulate where you can walk, where you park, etc. We even require that you wear clothes. The list of things you already can't do in public in order to protect the health and/or rights of others is already large. All are based on protecting the rights and health of other people from you. If you are asked to wear a mask because you may pose a credible health risk to others during a pandemic, how is that any different than the dozens if not thousands of other things we regulate when you are in public to protect others?
So, do cars pose a credible health risk to others? Yes. And, as a result, we have hundreds if not thousands of laws and regulations to limit the risk to the health and lives they present to innocent people. Do people pose a credible health risk to others during a pandemic? Yes. And just like cars, we should implement laws and regulations to mitigate the risk people pose to others when people are in public spaces that everyone must occupy. Temporarily requiring you to wear a mask seems very much in line with other things that are done to mitigate the risks we pose to others in public. None of your liberties are stripped any more than they are if you are told you cant smoke in public. In fact, they are being protected. Preventing one man from smoking in public is saving the health of others who choose not to smoke and who would otherwise be exposed. The same applies to spreading a highly contagious and deadly virus.
What you do at home is your business. What you do in public places around other people is a different story, as it should be. You decide the risks you pose to yourself and your family when you are on your property. But you do not get to decide what risks you should expose others to when you are in a public space. Thats the way its been in this country since the beginning. Nothing has changed and none of your liberties have been stripped.
I don’t like Trump. I’m a free market capitalist at heart. Trump is not. I typically lean republican IF they are a less government republican.
You’re right about some car regulations, but banning cars eliminates all of them. Wearing mask without locking down the economy would have been better than nothing but we decided to lock down.
What is the kill count or kill percentage needed to figure out when regulation must increase? Study’s are showing .3% death rate with coronavirus btw.
Why am I not surprised that Pubs/Trumpers don’t understand infectious disease control? Do you want the governor to say “Look, we know this disease that often ends up in hospitalization spreads through air/your breath, but since we are Americans and your freedom comes first, go ahead and go outside and rub up on everyone so we all get infected”? Or does “it’s against the law to go in public in such a way that we all know can cause harm to others” feel too tyrannical?
Freedom doesn’t mean you get to go out and infringe on someone else’s health.
Some of y’all are so unbelievably dense it’s depressing. Comparing having to wear a mask to government takeover is absurd. I can’t believe I have to explain this to a bunch of so-called adults, but then again this board is mostly trump voters, so I guess I have to get used to it.
Freedom doesn’t mean you get to go out and infringe on someone else’s health.
Some of y’all are so unbelievably dense it’s depressing. Comparing having to wear a mask to government takeover is absurd. I can’t believe I have to explain this to a bunch of so-called adults, but then again this board is mostly trump voters, so I guess I have to get used to it.
Gotta admit it's pretty funny watching these heroic, red state patriots crying about a blue state exercising its state's right, over something that will have no tangible impact on their own lives.
I dont think that 0.3% death rate you cite is correct. Right now it is running many times that but will likely come down some with increased testing, though not that low. But, lets say it is that low, that is still 3 times higher than automobile death rate among people who travel in vehicles. We certainly have lots of regulations around them. Its also about 3 times more than the deaths that occur from 2nd hand smoke, and we ban people from smoking in public places among other things to limit smoking exposure. Right now the death rate is 30x greater than those numbers. So, asking people to wear a mask in public isnt asking much.
28443/641813= 4.4% maybe you didn't realize how many times you had to move the decimal over?
You’re not comparing death rates the same. If we are talking about percentage of total population that will die, corona is at .0003% death rate if the have 100,000 deaths compared to total population. (More than estimated by government.) Very few people compared to total population will die.
Im curious to what the magic take away freedom death rate number is. Where do we draw the line? It is a simple question. Processed sugars are one of the biggest killers out there. Seems easy enough to justify banning all processed sugars. Why not have the government gauge the safety of every decision and regulate accordingly?
A line has to be drawn and I’m fine listening to arguments for that line. Unfortunately the same people supporting giving up freedoms are the same people that can only repeat vague things they hear in the news.
The scientist that are leading these shutdowns are the same scientist that are moving the goal post. Hospitals were all going to be over ran 2 weeks ago. NYC has peaked and hospital departures are starting to be higher than new arrivals. You can say the lockdown is working, but that means with nothing equals 2 million deaths. That’s .005 percent death of US population. Is that the line to give the government complete control?
I’m guessing my ole pal George Washington would have picked 99.995% survival equals freedom. Not complete government control.
(we haven’t even factored in the economic ramifications of this decision. Only loss of personal freedom)
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The US only test the high risk sick. I’d expect their death rate to be significantly higher. The question you have to ask is why does death rates vary so much between countries? Id say it’s because testing varies by country.
Iceland has tested the most healthy people and are showing around 46% of virus holders have no signs of sickness. This significantly drops the death rate of this is accurate.
Especially when talking US death rates considering they don’t test young people with symptoms or any healthy people. The government controls who gets tested and what’s gets reported. Somehow I’m the conspiracy theorist because I question obviously flawed data.
“So far Iceland has detected 1,720 cases of the virus, which is proportionally higher compared to countries that test only people who have been hospitalized. But its coronavirus death toll of just eight people is per capita just a tenth of that of France, for instance.”
https://www.france24.com/en/2020041...-it-right-with-early-widespread-virus-testing
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-...-vary-widely-leaving-questions-for-scientists
Pretty confident this virus disproportionately affects overweight people. I wonder if we have more overweight people in America?
bottles the mind
I dont think math is your strength and that is where your argument is breaking down. 0.0003% of the US population is only 984 people, not 100,000.
Plus, lets say your death rate for COVID19 of 100,000 is correct. That will be the result of the extreme social distancing and shutdown measures to limit exposure to people. What is that death total if 100% of people are exposed to COViD 19? You are trying to divide 100k into the total population as if that is what the death rate would be if 100% of people are exposed. That is an ignorant application. That death rate would be in the millions if 100% of Americans are exposed. That is indisputable.
By comparison, 100% of people were exposed to automobiles last year. The total deaths were less than 40,000. And that is still significantly less than any count available for COVID19 deaths under any measures taken, no matter how great or small.
Again, by any measure COVID19 is a significantly higher health risk to Americans than automobiles are. And automobiles are heavily regulated for the risk they pose. So, again, I think asking someone to wear a mask when in public is not stripping you of any liberties and is actually preserving my liberties.
100,000 / 326,000,000 = .0003.
These models factored in [complete social distancing]. So when people say “it’s proof social distancing is working.” They are admitting their models are invalid. Which brings you back to having to prove social distancing is working.
you’re wrong about vehicles also. Plenty of people can live without being exposed to vehicles. But that’s also not relevant considering 100%of people exposed to the coronavirus don’t get sick...
Stop dancing around. What’s the appropriate death rate to justify government control?
In your post above you said .0003% which is equal to .000003.
As for the rest of it, I have a lot to say, but I have come to realize it won’t matter. So I am checking out.
Take care. We just don’t subscribe to the same data, facts or math.
Isn’t Trump a states-rights loving, small government Republican?
That’s what he ran on, right?
He becomes president and suddenly, the president “has the ultimate authority,” and under his administration spending is reaching an all-time high. Trump, himself, announced to the world yesterday that he is a dictator and even referenced The Mutiny on the Bounty and what would happen to states that didn’t follow his lead.
First of all, I totally agree that the governor of NY is off base here. Follow the science and the CDC guidelines is the way to go. It's OK not to wear masks if you are vaccinated.
Per CNBC this morning between 7:05-7:15, are you referring to the same CDC that stated on March 29th that we were at the doorstep of “impending doom” and then 5 weeks later “yea our bad, if you’re vaccinated you don’t even have to wear a mask”.
The host (a devote liberal) then utters words that I had to play back three times to make sure I heard him correctly. Here it was:
“We’re part of a science experiment”....WOW
You are not allowed to express your dissenting opinion. It might harm people's faith in the institutions.
This is communism.
The CDC doesn't have an agenda, they just follow the science and what it indicates. Note that the CDC's guidelines were to wear a mask even after getting vaccinated until this week. Then that changed and the CDC changed their guidelines. It works like that all the time. That March 29 statement was based on death rates and new cases of Covid. Now, the results have changed and once again the CDC gives you the best answer they can.
Following the science isn't a fool proof method my any means. BUT it's BY FAR the most accurate method we have for getting correct answers. It makes me scratch my head when folks love to point out how scientists make mistakes, but listen to people who don't have a clue about infectious virus's. THEN when those folks are wrong, they just move on to the next idiot.
LMAO... You mean like disagreeing with Trump? Doesn't that pretty much get you kicked out of the Republican party now...
You mean like disagreeing with the CDC doesn't that pretty much get you kicked out of the Democrat party?
You do realize that you haven't said one single scientific thing in this post don't you?
If you think that, I'm not sure you understand what science means. "Following the science" is pretty much the definition of a scientific thing. Of course being the Trumpian that you are, science means following what the foremost scientist in the world (Donald Trump) tells you to follow.
I got more science training than you do. I still remember some calculus too. Suck on that.
Then you should know that following the science means using the scientific method to do research and collect data. Then drawing conclusions based on that data and creating guidance from those conclusions. Even I know that, so a trained science guy like yourself should not have said there was no science in a remark that said following the science twice.
Yadeyadayada
We know all that which is why we don't believe the CDC. They have not followed the scientific process. Everything is hosed up right now. Don't trust any of the Covid Data or reporting. I lived in a socialist country. I'm from Brazil. I learned not to trust state run media and institutions. They lie all the time.
If you read what everyone is saying about this virus and the vaccine, then you can see that they have valid reasons to be concerned. Science includes validating your assumptions. Don't take things for granted. Avoid the Halo Effect, Groupthink, Pilot-Copilot and other human performance error precursors such as herd mentality.
Don't follow the Herd.
NO. NOT like Cuomo. He's a politician, just like Trump. The CDC, the NIH. You know, the SCIENTISTS, not the politicians.
